Lenovo is now world's largest pc maker

Lenovo ousts HP as world's largest PC maker - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

 

I bought a Lenovo thinking I would be a bit different than most

 

Hmm, nice. Though another source says that they're very close behind HP. Regardless, good job Lenovo!

 

how old is your source??

They just took over HP last quarter .

 

10th October, 2012. PC Market Struggles Ahead Of Windows 8 Launch As Lenovo Nearly Catches HP for the Worldwide Market Leadership Position, According to IDC - prUS23730212

From reading the Slashdot article on it: Has Lenovo Taken the Top PC Manufacturer Spot From HP? - Slashdot

 

If you read the article I linked, it mentioned IDC's analysis stating the contrary. HP even backed IDC's analysis saying that it is the correct one which to me shows HP's insecurity as it loses it marketshare against the Chinese pc maker.

I am not a research analyst but Gartner seems more reputable in the technology industry.

Regardless of which two data you use, HP and Lenovo is now more or less equal in terms of marketshare.

 

New logo: Faster Than A Speeding Bullet!



View attachment 85696

 

quantity doesn't mean quality
...the quality on their thinkpad line has been steadily dropping from what I've seen + experienced

 

Really? My W520's survived several devastating drops that'd break a non-business-laptop. It's not a Toughbook, but it's still built very well.

 

I've owned over 20+ ThinkPads, minus a few bad hard drives and a dim screen, I've yet have one to seriously break (dead).

 

That's not good..mass production=many more problems

 

You do know that Toughbooks, widely held as being *the strongest* laptops, are mass produced, right?

Hand made doesn't always mean high quality. Just means it's more expensive.

 

The key thing is quality control.

Anyone who has ever opened a ToughBook will tell you that Panasonic's QC is second to none. ThinkPad doesn't even come close. It's not meant to come close in the first place.

But that's beside the point. These are worlds apart - always have been.

That being said, once Lenovo gets comfortable in its # 1 spot, watch for the trackpoint disappearing from the ThinkPad range...

 

The day the trackpoint goes away is the day I stop considering Thinkpads. Bad enough they went with an island-style keyboard :/.

 

I already wrote them off after the keyboard layout change...not that they care...

 

The trackpoint will never disappear. It is even in the ThinkPad-Logo! They wont remove it.

 

Same Opinion here. Why should they remove it? What would they gain from doing such a horrible thing? After all, countless people opt for a ThinkPad just to get that legendary Trackpoint. With the introduction of the Precision Keyboard we at least earned Keyboard backlight, but saying good bye to the Trackpoint would just mean Lenovo loosing customers. And they're not that stupid.

 

yea, even with the ideapad it's a pretty neat feat! I bought my Y580 4 days ago and I'm loving every minute of it! although this is the first time I use a trackpad, I'm getting used to enjoy it(even if I use a mouse most of the time lol)... I remember back in 2008 when I bought my HP dv5, and I thought mine had a problem due to overheating, after joining the forum I found out most people were experiencing the same thing, here look at this, after playing Skyrim on my old dv5(note: this was also with a cooling pad):

with my Y580, I set everything on ultra, and even after an hour of play non of the components exceed 66C(HDD tops 56C).. anyways... also now in my country I've noticed to see more and more Lenovos in sale, so I guess you could say that their market share is increasing.

 

If you think that they haven't lost customers due to the change in the keyboard layout, think again.

As for "why would they..." I strongly suggest that you read what Matt Kohut wrote here:

Time to give up TrackPoint? - Perspectives - Lenovo Blogs

Just a blog, right? Sure.

That's where we saw the first signs of "new and improved" keyboard layout a few years ago, and when some of us started screaming bloody murder Lenovo kept on re-assuring us that the T, W and X series will remain unchanged in that respect...

 

He also made this blog: TrackPoint P.S.—Thanks, and fear not! - Perspectives - Lenovo Blogs

They have not lost any large company customers. And if they would do, they would change it back. But HP and Dell use the 6-row layout even longer and they also not lost customers with this change.

The number of people who complain about the 6-row layout is obviously really small and not important.

 

They lost some old customers, but they also won plenty of new ones. That's just the cycle of things.

As for the other stuff: See ibmthink

 

Where he also wrote:

"Our management team cares about your feedback and they do read the comments on our blogs--rest assured that when you take the time to write back here, you aren't spitting into the wind. In other words, keep 'em comin'."

Which sounds like a rather cynical statement in the light of the feedback that Lenovo was given on these very blogs after the keyboard layout change...and their lack of response - let alone action - to it...

Unless you have some real-world-stats that you're allowed to share, I'd beg to differ with you on this one, and tremedously so.

 

What should they say? They have already made this one article ( Change Is Hard: Why You Should Give In to the New ThinkPad Keyboard - Products - Lenovo Blogs) as the response to the angry posts they have got. They have written why they changed the keyboard ("OK, everyone. We’ve made our case here"). What should they do now? They won´t say "Yes, we change back". They can not say anything about future products, because their company-policy forbid them to do that.

David Hill, as the design chief, is also pro 6-row. Why should they change back? Because there are some angry people? With every change there are angry people. As I remember there were even angry people when they put the windows key in the keyboard. They can´t convince everyone. And they have to change some points, because they are making ThinkPads not alone for some old fans. Some aspects in the tech-world are changing, and they simply have to adapt (widescreen for example). If ThinkPads would look today still as the old T4x, they would still make no money, as IBM never made really much money with their PC-division.

Yes I know, there are many comments under the keyboard-change article. But this is the web. Negative comments are more present than positive. I can assure you that it is really realistic to say that there are not many complaining people out there. Normal users mostly don´t use the 7th row and so they don´t miss it, and they are not stick to one layout. Far more important for the most users is the typing feel.

But maybe Lenovo will do some changes to the new keyboard in the next line of ThinkPads (for example they will maybe return to the separated F-keys as they did with the X1 Carbon) to convince some of the angry users. I won´t expect them to return to the old layout or even to the old keycaps. But we will see...

 

But the ThinkPads of that era built a reputation that endures today. Unfortunately the pursuit of money can have dramatic side effects.

 

Huh...no. They've changed the keyboard, posted what they did on the blog and THEN grew silent after they were slammed with comments that were roughly 95%+ negative.

You did read the stats on how they tested out new keyboard, right? They are pitiful, and I'm being kind here...

David Hill, whom I held in the highest of regards until recently, needs his job like most of us do...

You're absolutely right in saying that IBM's PC Division was a money hole for the most part.

However, IBM was the one who created the market rules, pretty much like Apple does today. Lenovo does not have that leverage. Never will, in my opinion. And they had it handed to them seven years ago.

As for going widescreen etc...please. All of it was a cost-cutting measure, as is the keyboard layout change. Every other argument that was presented was BS, plain and simple.

My work laptop is the last 4:3 (non-widescreen) conventional notebook standing. It's a superb piece of engineering with a price tag to match. And the Fortune 20 company that signs my paycheck had no problem in ordering thousands of those...so it's really not that much of a clean cut as some folks would like to present it. Obviously, the machine in question was NOT built by Lenovo.

I am - on a very selfish level - actually grateful to Lenovo for making the widescreen move. They've created a wonderful market for custom built units. Not a huge one, but hey - I'm not a greedy guy. Five years after they've dropped the 4:3 format like a hot potato, I'm able to build FrankenPads that are superior to any 4:3 unit that Lenovo has ever built and sell them for more than what Lenovo charges for a mid-range T430...:hi2:

Having written over 15,000 posts between TPF and LF, I'm well aware of that. However, I've gotten hundreds of emails from my long-time customers and *all* of them were along the lines of "are they kidding us with this keyboard layout?"...

I'd love for you - or anyone else for that fact - to define the term "normal users" for me.

Personally, I really don't care what they do next. No ThinkPad with a 6-row layout will ever enter this household. If I want to re-learn typing after 40 years, I have a lot of other choices apart from Lenovo's products...

Once again, not that they care. And they've shown that disregard towards the "core" ThinkPad users very clearly, and more than once.

 

I'd have to agree with you on this one. I didn't like the X220t keyboard, I thought it was going to be an improvement over the X201 I had. Hence I went backwards to an X61t which offered me high resolution as well as a good keyboard, something I missed with my X200t. Now I am looking for a gaming netbook styled computer, my next laptop maybe an X240t if the IGP is powerful enough as my X61t is only good for notetaking in class.

What I'll have to say about the 6 row keyboard layout, Lenovo is all about ergonomics. Unfortunately die-hard Thinkpadders like me, I hate the newer style keyboards but it's still a good keyboard.

 

If Intel keeps their promise, Haswell's GT3 will run Skyrim on High Graphics/Details @ 1920x1080. Want proof?

 

No. There was a time-frame between the appearance of the first pictures and the announcement of the 2012 line-up and then this blog post (the first pictures came April, the announcement in May, this Blog Post in July). In this time-frame there were many angry comments in the Lenovo-Blogs, on Facebook, on Twitter and Youtube. So this post was supposed to be an explanation and an answer on those comments (has stated in the post: "Sometimes an outpouring of anger can reveal itself as a kind of profound love. I know it sounds strange but that’s been my conclusion after moderating your comments across Lenovo’s Facebook, Twitter, Google+ and YouTube pages over the past couple months. The source of the angst (as many of you know) is the recent design change to Lenovo’s famous, award-winning, ergonomically-renowned ThinkPad laptop keyboard. Nearly every negative comment I’ve read has been delivered with a sense of ferocious loyalty, a sense of love. You’re mad because you care. I respect that."). So this was the feedback.

Yeah, I did read it.

The problem is, Lenovo could not hold this leadership. But not because Lenovo is so bad, because of several reasons:
- The focus of the tech-market moved and moves generally from business to the consumer. Thats something Lenovo can´t change. So, because ThinkPads are business-notebooks, they went out of the focus. The consumer-market gots much bigger since 2005. If the market would be today still as 2005/6, than Lenovo would maybe contain this leadership. But in the reality they had to give it up for the whole market (I would say that they have still this leadership in the business-market, but that only IMHO). Also, the ThinkPad Design is to black in the eyes of the most young people.
- They have to make money, so they have to make some sacrifices. In 2005, ThinkPads are making no money.
- The have not the big R&D as IBM had and has. Also, IBM had things like IDTech. When IDTech went dead, Lenovo had no manufacturer for the Flexview Displays. They had to use other display-manufacturers, but this was way to expensive (IDTech displays were never really expensive for IBM because IDTech was in some way a part of IBM). So, after the change to widescreen came, they abandoned Flexview. They did this, because they did not make money with Flexview
- Pricing today is much more agressive. They can not offer ThinkPads for 2000 € if the competition (HP and Dell) offer the same internals for 1300 €. A few years ago the prices for ThinkPads were much higher and not competitive. Failed projects as the X300/X301 and the W700/W701(ds) only showed Lenovo that really high priced Notebooks don´t sell.
- Apple just became popular and got a big hype with the iPhone. Without it, it wouldn't be that popular and it wouldn`t define the Standards. Apple gained this strong position through the iPhones and the fans. Also, Apple is obviously not bound to some market rules. They can make a expensive Notebook (MBP R) and it still sells because of its big fan base and the nearly perfect marketing.

So be happy.

So, what if the introduce next year a bit slimmed down W540 with 15,6" WQHD 2560x1400 IPS with 95% Gammut and F-key seperation and the same carbon lid as X1 Carbon a bit thicker?

@600X,
I belive your signature is faulty. Your X220i has actually no IPS screen, it hasn´t arrived yet

 

Because Lenovo made no attempt to teach them otherwise. Instead of creating their own set of rules like IBM did they chose to emulate other manufacturers..

You're simplifying a rather complex matter which has *a lot* to do with the lawsuit that involved IBM... but regardless, ID Tech was not the only maker of IPS panels. Hydis kept on supplying tablet screens for X6x series which are AFFS just as the ones on T60p were. LG was still making FlexView screens when Lenovo chose to drop IPS.

I've got a box of LED-lit Hydis AFFS FlexView panels, 15" 1600x1200 (so yes, the obsolete 4:3) FlexView that were produced in March of 2011... and no, I haven't placed a custom order for them...

I guess no one at Panasonic got that memo about higher-priced notebooks not selling well... :hi2::

You can slice and dice Apple any way you choose to, but the fact of the matter is that Lenovo inherited a huge ThinkPad fan base from IBM and did little to nothing to preserve it...

I'll buy the screen and put it into a W520...

 

Lenovo, if they haven't already, will take the #1 spot. They're out innovating many competitors, the upcoming IdeaPad Y500 with Ultrabay graphics is one example of taking a risk with a new design for what I think will really appeal to consumers. They've also vastly expanded their product range and are very competitive on price, which always helps. They still don't have a well recognized brand in the U.S. though, they need to work on that. Different story in the Asia region where it's a household name I'm sure.

 

What on earth is that thing? Is that the NVIDIA® GeForce® GT655M ??? Looks interesting.

 

Looks beautiful, if you ask me

 

How does it work? When it's not in, it uses the integrated iGPU?

 

It is just an Ultrabay, and (my suggestion) it is connected to the motherboard through an mPCI Slot.

No. The Y400/500 both come with an integrated nVidia GeForce. The GPU through the is just optional and and expansion. It works with SLI.

You also have the choice to use an additional fan or a 2nd HDD.

Yeah, but it is difficult to hold this people, because they are not easy to satisfy. Also, Lenovo have to make money, again, and with the old ThinkPads they couldn´t make any money. So they had to change some things. What more logical for a company: Hold a old fanbase, who bring not so much money and is not easy to satisfy, or make money with big companys, the true market target of ThinkPads?

They have a completely different target market, which is much smaller. ThinkPads are company-notebooks and Toughbooks are rugged-notebooks for very special needs. They are not used by normal workers at all. They are used by specialists, who work outdoors. But, with this market segment, you can not be the biggest PC-manufacturer.

That is possible, but they are way to expensive for the use in business-notebooks compared to an FHD Display for example.

This is difficult. Teaching kids is nothing easy. And how should they do this?

 

Whatever.

@Thors.Hammer
That thing looks interesting. If it ever becomes available to ThinkPads, I'm sooo switching to the T440(?) or X340(?).

Edit: Lenovo IdeaPad Y Series brings UltraBay for interchangeable upgrades - SlashGear

Wow, so you can also have an additional Fan!

 

Yes, that would be a nice option for the W540. In fact, I demand it!

 

All that was expected was keeping up with the tradition of quality and service level...

I haven't seen too many ThinkPads used by the big businesses, and I am exposed to their IT departments five days a week...in NYC of all places...

You're obviously unaware of the business-grade ToughBook range. My old CF-W7 - which is roughly an equivalent of a X61s, but with an integrated DVDRW - weighs 3lbs with the battery inserted...not all of Panasonic laptops are 8lb bullet-proof behemoths, far from it...

None of us know that for a fact. When one has the purchasing power of a large company like Lenovo, they get to write their own price tag.

However, they expect to sell "premium" machines with lousy LCDs, which is one of the reasons that both X30x and W70x series weren't as succesful as Lenovo had anticipated, which is a sin because they are excellent concepts in their own right which were cheaply executed and therefore failed to meet the expectation of all sides...

 

Reminds me of thls:

X1 Carbon?

 

No. There are also many people who want Lenovo to make the ThinkPads exactly as the T4x Series. But thats not possible or good.

When it comes to service, they also have to cut some costs, because Service is one of the most expensive points for the customer (and also one reason why the IBM PCD was a money hole).

The build quality is still very good. Problem is more the QC, which is not so good in China, and because of that, the machines often have some flaws. But they are working on this with the establishment of no factories outside of China.

The USA is a big exception. In the US they mostly buy PC from Dell/HP and the consumers from Apple, because these are US companys. Here in Europe there are more companies using ThinkPads and in Asia the most companies use ThinkPads. Because of that, Lenovo is still the number 1 in the Business-Notebook sector.

I know these, but they are not as expensive as the full- or semi-rugged Toughbooks. But they are not selling good compared to the ThinkPads.

W701(ds) had an excellent Display. But it didn´t sell because it was to expensive.

 

While in a short-term period this type of cuts may save money, it's a disaster in the long run.

Well, in quite a few of these aforementioned businesses, Lenovo seems to be doing very well with their desktops...so...I don't think that this part of your statement stands...

Huh...that CF-W7 had a price tag of $2399 when new, and from a least expensive official re-seller...hardly a bargain basement opportunity...and Panasonic still offers a full range of business-grade ToughBooks around here, so I'd venture a guess that they are selling well enough...

Excellent compared to garbage used on T400 and its successors? Absolutely.

Compared to a 15" T60p or one of the IPS-equipped Dell/HP high-enders? Pitiful.

It was too expensive indeed. For a desktop replacement-grade-unit with a TN panel, that is...

 

Yeah, but, here in Germany, no PC-maker has a really good support except Samsung. Lenovo is here in the mid of the manufactures. Not the best, but also not the absolute crap. I think in the USA they are a bit better, because there is the support still led by IBM.

So lets compare the W701 WUXGA RGB-LED to the T60 UXGA AFFS:
Review Lenovo Thinkpad W701 Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews
Review Lenovo / IBM Thinkpad T60p UXGA Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews
I would not call that "pitiful". The T60 UXGA is maybe better in some points (viewing angles, black levels, but in these points the W701 is also not bad), but the WUXGA in the W701 is also better in some points: Brightness, color-spectrum, contrast and at last the higher resolution. I would not call that pitiful.

Oh, and I heard that Dell stoped including IPS Display on the 15,6" Precision.

 

Where are we going with all these arguments? It's just a freaking company trying to make money selling freaking computers.

 

Yeah, absolutely right. :thumbsup:

 

I'm really surprised to hear this. Not that I doubt your info on the matter at hand...

There was something wrong with that FlexView panel. Insufficiently bright by any criteria. These were normally 200, not 150 nits. But yeah, the W701 display is definitely brighter.

Mind you, I had them side-by-side for about 48 hours, in the same room where I'm typing from right now. Had you seen what I've seen, you might be able to understand where I'm coming from.

As for the higher resolution of the W701...well...it has a bigger panel, and in a different format, so I really wouldn't count that as a plus...

Mind you, I admired the W70x concept. A lot.

You've heard correctly. However, HP is still in the IPS game, but a proper comparison for W701 would be a 17" unit, not a 15" one...

The bottom line here is that we'll never agree...you believe that the path Lenovo has taken is the correct one, at least for the most part.

Prior to introduction of *30 series I would've - to a fairly high degree - had agreed with you. But not now.

There is no doubt in my mind that Lenovo will be in the # 1 spot extremely soon if they're not there already.

For them, that's all that matters.

For some of us, the path that got them there is the same one that robbed us of the product that we've used for years, and that held a special place in our hearts.

That's all.

 

Yes, but, for me, a 17" Notebook would be never acceptable. 15,6" is my size when it comes to notebooks. The sentence "Oh, and I heard that Dell stoped including IPS Display on the 15,6" Precision." shold be just something like "Have you heard that..." or something like that.

Also yes, while I think that there are still some things they could do better (better Displays, maybe a layout more compatible to the older ThinkPad-fans, more accessories), overall, they are on a good path.

Right, I believe we can agree with this statement and end the discussion at this point.

 

It does indeed. I even saved the picture.

Speaking of stunning photos...



Things to come, methinks.

 

You Yanks get to pay the least for most consumer products!

 

That's because we usually invent them.

Just teasing.

 

This is actually what I'm afraid of, staying in #2 will keep them on their toes, once they've moved to #1 it's hard to say which direction things will go. HP has been #1 for years and I used to be a loyal HP customer, not anymore. Their 2012-13 offerings look great so far, hopefully that's a good sign that this is just the beginning of the good times!

BTW I hated the six row design too but loved the chiclet keys!

Speaking of large companies using Thinkpad, I believe Intel is a good example.

 

actually the the biggest pc maker is quanta computers and HP and lenovo don't MAKE any pc. they are not OEM's.