Linux Box for programming and power-use

I need a notebook I can use for the next few years (4-5 years at least). I have decided to get a Thinkpad. The T400 is what's on my mind right now. But I wanted to hear from you guys on if or not that is the best choice for me (and why). Please suggest me which Thinkpad I should opt for, in case you think that T400 isn't for me.

I am a computer programmer and system administrator. I need to type a lot and use memory and processor hungry apps like some IDEs and compilers. I occasionally play 3D games. Should I go for quad-core (and is a thinkpad with one available?), since I want to use this thing for the next few years? I use Linux almost all the time and exclusively. I keep trying different Linux/UNIX distributions from time to time. I'd prefer something that doesn't come with Windows Vista. I'd prefer a no-OS installed machine to a Vista-installed one. If I get a Linux installed one, it'd be great. I checked the lenovo website for T400 but it didn't allow me to choose the OS.

Battery-life is a priority for me but from the reviews of T400 I've read on notebookreview.com, this seems to be the best choice. But I read bad comments on the keyboard. Is it really bad? Should I think of some other model?

I hope you'd be able to give me some suggestions and feedbacks that'd help me choose a good machine for me. If you've some time, please suggest some specs too.

Thanks,

 

The T400, like most ThinkPads, is generally one of the better choices for running Linux. You should check ThinkWiki as that is a group dedicated to running Linux on ThinkPads.

A quad-core can be a good choice if you run lots of apps simultaneously, or the apps you do run are very well threaded. For most other cases, a dual core CPU at a higher frequency will perform better (e.g. a 2.8GHz T9600 C2D, vs. a 2.0GHz Q9000 quad on some other brands). In addition, the only ThinkPad presently available with a quad core is the very large w700.

IBM/Lenovo used to offer ThinkPads with Suse Enterprise pre-isntalled. However, that is no longer the case. If you have access to certain academic portals you can sometimes configure a ThinkPad with PC-DOS. Otherwise, you will simply have to pay the Windows tax (most likely $50 for Vista Home Basic) and wipe it yourself.

The T400, like most ThinkPads, tends to get very good battery life. However, you should be aware that the best battery life is generally achieved in Vista as most Linux distros generally have pretty poor power management (usually 2-4 watts higher at idle in my experience).

The keyboard issue has generally been addressed. Lenovo added internal supports to the T400 that substantially reduced the flex problem. In addition, if this the flex still bothers you a simple replacement with a T61 keyboard will eliminate all of the flex. Further, the keyboard on the T400 was only a mild step down in rigidity compared to the T61. It still is better than almost any other computers keyboard.

 

I havent owned or used a t400, but I have ordered one and used s t61p variant and I will have to say the keyboard is amazing. Just like my dell vostro it is a dream to type on and thinkpad construction is def at the top of the list as well as dell business class. I have yet to find a more rock solid notebook then the thinkpad I used recently and my dell.

As for the linux issue, you could always use vista for battery life and have a virtual box running with linux up. That is what I always do, I run vista business for tools and such, and have ubuntu server or just plain ubuntu running. Just an idea for battery life and such.

 

If you're on a tighter budget, the R400/R500 might be worth a look too.

 

Thanks a lot for the replies. So, the keyboard on a T400 is as good as in other Thinkpads, right? That's a relief. But since this model is known for excellent battery life, maybe I could run about a couple of hours less on Linux (say if 9 hours for Windows, can I run for about 6 hours in linux? with a 9-cell battery?)? I like liquidxit2's idea of using virtualization if there's no way to avoid paying for the crappy Vista (a Linux preinstalled would've been better though).

And I have the money for T400 (esp since there's a sale now). The W700 is expensive for me. I saw the T61 review and don't like it as much as the T400 (the specs. if this is better, pls tell me). R400 looks good but again I'd love to hear from you all. This is going to be my first thinkpad and I want to make sure I get the best value for money. Also, i'm going to use it all the time for the next few years and I know even a slightly faulty machine can seriously hamper your productivity and mental health (they are a PITA)

I'm very grateful to your inputs.
Thanks again for the time.

 

The layout and general quality of the T400 keyboard is the same as earlier models. The only trouble is Lenovo removed a backing plate (approximately 1.5 ounces) to reduce weight and/or cost. This created the potential for flex in certain areas of you press very hard (no prior ThinkPad experienced this). The newly added supports help to address this problem, but if you are still dis-satisfied with the keyboard (unlikely in my opinion), swapping in a T61 keyboard is easy to do.

9 hours is on the high side in Vista (assumes modest brightness and a light workload), but 5+ should easily be attainable in most Linux distros with moderate usage/settings. Virtualization is an option, but you do pay some penalty as you are emulating a computing environment. If you plan on using Linux as your main OS, I would suggest just using Linux (possibly with a Windows dual boot).

The T61 is basically the T400 except for older hardware. Lenovo simply changed the number scheme (the T400 should really be the T62).

The R400 is practically identical to the T400 except it lacks some of the higher end options (e.g. the dedicated GPU). If you can find an R400 that has the components you want, it is probably a better value than the T400.

 

The best keyboard of the more recent ThinkPads is probably the T4x keyboards. My 14" R60's keyboard was very good. My 15" R60 isn't quite as good, but that's judging it from a high standard. I'd agree with Jon unless you need the GPU or WWAN, the R400 offers excellent value. You'd be hard pressed to tell it from a T400 right next to them. Check for coupons and the Outlet, where occasionally you can find some really good deals.

 

Thanks jonlumpkin,

So in your opinion, is T400 the best choice for me? And how do I replace the keyboard with T61's? I live in South Asia and I'm ordering the box from the US (the sale ends 22nd)- can I do that while customizing in the lenovo website? Or am I better off without doing that? I've read a lot of things about thinkpad's strength/attraction being the flex and all. I'd not mind the extra weight for extra durability, robustness and comfort. My concern is: I should get the a thinkpad of the "thinkpad-standard"- that i keep reading and hearing from friends too.

A dedicated GPU would be a nice thing to have. What's the battery-life of R400 compared to T400? And what about the specs? How old is this thing? Since you seem to say that the R400 is better than T400, in what terms is it better?

Thanks

 

Thanks for the reply.

Does T4x include T400?

If so, why would somebody opt for T400? Or do you think that's not fair?

 

No that would not include the T400. It would include the T40, T41, T42 and T43.

Because the T series has historically been the rock star of the ThinkPad line. It's always been a little thinner and lighter, which some people do need and others place a premium on even if they don't. While the R series has sort of been the Rodney Dangerfield of the ThinkPad line - no respect. It's ironic they share a lot of parts. They've sort of yin and yanged over the years as to how close they are in quality. Right now the 14" models are very close, with the T having a few premium options like the GPU and WWAN the R does not offer. If you need those then the T offers better value. The 15.4" models are more different construction wise. It lacks the roll cage in the lid and it's bit clunkier if you ask me, but still a solid notebook. The R400 offers excellent value if you're looking for an all-around value notebook, probably better than the T.

 

I think you need to list what games you play to see if there is a justification for discrete graphics.

 

In this thread [ http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=348625] you seem to suggest that a T400 is your choice. Would love to hear what changed your mind

 

OK. And nobody seems to suggest getting them (maybe they are older models, I don't exactly know.

OK. I don't play 3D games on the machine I'm using right now (its an old machine) but I used to play games like Counter Strike, FIFA, Age of Conquerors and DOTA. Sometimes games like Need For Speed. Besides gaming, I've experienced the downside of not having a GPU: heavy graphical applications tend to take up a lot of RAM and make the computer slower. As I said, I use programming IDEs, and run many applications simultaneously. Three years down the line, I don't want to regret not having bought a better machine- applications will become much resource-hungry and hardware will become cheaper too- I may have to run a lot of such softwares.

Thanks,
Bibek

 

The T40, T41, T42, T43 are OLDER models. I had a T40 for 5 years (2003-2008 and loved it). The T41, T42, T43 are identical except for slightly faster processors and newer chipsets. They are all single core Pentium M's and thus not a great choice if performance is a key consideration.

My personal opinion is that after 1-2 years most mainstream GPUs (i.e. the Radeon 3470) become effectively integrated. They no longer provide adequate performance for gaming and heavy 3D applications and you are really just left with a power hungry discrete GPU that offers little to no benefit over integrated for the vast majority of applications.

One other thing to consider. The T400 offers a switchable GPU (both integrated and dedicated if you choose). Under Vista you can switch this on the fly. However, for Linux you will need to turn the machine off, enter the BIOS, and switch there. This is important because the dedicated GPU will use 2-4 watts more power at idle (and even more at load) than the integrated GPU, this will lead to a corresponding reduction in battery life.

The R400 is basically the T400 with a few less upgrade options. If you don't require a dedicated GPU, WWAN, or one of the other T400 amenities then the R400 will likely give you an identical experience at a lower cost.

 

Yes, performance is a KEY consideration for me.

That's some info. If I'm not wrong, I read in the revised T400 review that this feature is no longer available. Switchable GPU sounds attractive. And one of the original questions: I've read a lot of user comments about the keyboard flex and also that it seems to have been fixed in the newer release: so, is there no reason to worry and will I get a "thinkpad standard" notebook when I order a T400? Or does the keyboard justify choosing some other model?

I have decided that I will need a dedicated GPU. WWAN isn't necessary for now. I think one other T400 amenity is the battery performance, and I'm opting for a 9-cell one.

My questions may sound very irritating and I'm sorry for that. This is going to be my first Thinkpad after years of reading and hearing about how great they are, especially for power users. I want to have a very robust machine that I can use without upgrading for the next 4-5 years (at least). That's why all the questions.

And what about T500? The W500 looked better, but costs a lot more too

Thanks to all the forum regulars for replying my questions so far.

Bibek

 

The t500 has a higher resolution screen, and a better GPU option. But comes with lower battery life and larger footprint. Other then that they are identical.

 

OK. I think I need to decide now. I will try to summarize whatever I learned from visiting this forum and esp this thread. Please correct me if I missed something.

1. R400/R500 is a good option if GPU isn't required. But it has lesser upgrade options, is an older model and doesn't have the reputation of the T-series.
2. T500 is same as T400 except for a bigger screen and better GPU.
3. T400 is a decent choice. Main attractions being the battery life and good display.
4. T400/T500 are like upgraded T61. But T400 has better battery life than all of them. On the downside, the keyboard was reported to have some problems in T400 (what this the case with T500 too?) which seems to have been fixed for now. But the fixing doesnt make it as good as the T61 keyboard.
5. W series are better, but cost a lot more too. My budget won't get me a W- series Thinkpad.

Given these points, here are my requirements:
1. good battery life
2. a decent, modern machine that would run fine without upgrades for some years. And then, when I'd have to upgrade, it should have the options.
3. Good keyboard - old-thinkpad style.
4. Other requirements like fast processor/HDD bigger RAM etc.
5. Rest, that come with buying a Thinkpad.

Given these circumstances, i think I will get a T400 as I originally planned, with one reservation: how do I get its keyboard replaced with T61's ? I would like to do it while ordering from the website itself since I don't know if I'd be able to do it once it arrives to where I live. If the keyboard isn't an issue (will do fine for 4-5 years from now), then that's nice. Otherwise, if T500's or R400/R500 (which of them would fit my requirements more closely?) keyboard is better, then maybe I should get them (trying to fulfil my other as muhc as possible).

Thanks,
BIbek

 

Everything correct except:
1.OK, but R400 is not older model. its the same as t400, you have even the same drivers for R400 and T400
4. T500 also had keyboard problem.
According to the last review of T400 on this forum, this issue is solved.
and you can always use T61 keyboard.(though i don't think you can buy t400 from lenovo with T61 keybord, but you can buy it from lenovo or ebay)
but again the issue with flex keyboard is solved. read the review.

p.s. from my own experience, even the keyboard with flex wasn't so bad, you had to push it really hard before it started to flex.

 

1) The R400 is NOT an old model. It is simply a method of market segmentation that allows Lenovo to sell a model with a slightly reduced feature set (the 'R' series) at a lower price than a 'T' series machine.

2) Basically you are correct. However, the T500 will get slightly worse battery life due to the larger screen and more powerful GPU (it's also heavier).

3) The T400 is probably the most balanced ThinkPad available, and thus a good choice for a variety of uses.

4) Both the T400 and T500 had some issues with keyboard flex due to the weight reduced design and relatively large frame. If the keyboard bothers you, just get a T61 keyboard and install it.

5) The W-series is IDENTICAL to the T500. Only get it if you want WUXGA and/or a OpenGL/CAD optimized GPU.

 

Please tell me how to do that. How do I get to replace the keyboard. Is it aftar I buy, I order (buy) the T61 keyboard separately and then replace it manually at home? Or is there some way the support does it for me? Can I not get a T61 keyboard while placing my order in the first place (by writing to lenovo support maybe).

This info will be of great help.

Thanks,
Bibek

 

Try it out to see if you like it. If not go from there.

 

Does that mean to:
1. try out the default keyboard
2. order for a replacement keyboard if the default doesn't work/feel well (at a later date?)

If yes, does the replacement keyboard come at some price or do I get it for free? And what's the process? I live in South Asia - if I've to order from the US with all the shipping charge, maybe its not worth it.

But again, if that's the only way (ie. i can't buy a thinkpad with a T61 keyboard), then it's ok.

Bibek

 

It means try out the default keyboard first. The tales of its flex have been greatly overstated.

If you are unsatisfied with it, simply order a T61 keyboard as an individual part (from lenovo, IBMMedic, or a variety of other sources). Replacing the keyboard is quite simple. All you need to do is remove a half dozen screws and the keyboard data cable; then swap in the new board, replace the data cable, and the screws (you should download the hardware maintenance manuals for the T400 from Lenovo to learn the exact procedure).

Some people have been able to get a free T61 keyboard from Lenovo. However, Lenovo's current position is that the reinforcements have fixed the problem. Therefore, unless you get a very nice CSR you are unlikely to get a free T61 style replacement.

You cannot directly request a T400 with a T61 style keyboard. For a short period (about 3 months ago) Lenovo was shipping the T400 with the T61 style keyboard. However, after increasing the internal support structure, they consider the problem fixed, and have changed back to the weight reduced T400 style.

 

Thanks,

OK. Now, I've decided to get a T400/T500

But I've a problem now. T400 with discrete graphics takes more than 4 weeks to ship while T500 takes about 9-11 days (the information from lenovo website). I've a friend in NY who will collect the notebook and then send it over to me. He is coming in June. Do you think it will really take that long time? And I tried comparing the price for T500, it is a bit expensive. Someone replied earlier on that its battery lasts less (what are the other disadvantages?)

For almost the same thing, why does it take 4 week vs 9 days ? I'm surprised. But I want to get this T400 desperately. Please give me some ideas to get around this thing.

Thanks,
Bibek

 

If you want to buy from Lenovo there's no getting around it. There's probably a part shortage somewhere in the pipeline. You may wish to consider a pre-configured model.

 

How do I do that?

Bibek

 

The t400 are not delayed for 4 weeks. I talked to a lot of reps for my research and I ordered mine on the 19th of May and they said they guesstimate it to ship June 2nd. Now that's with the 1 day max processing and 10 day max build time, So basically depending on how busy lenovo is building wise will decide when I get my t400. My hopes are for any day , actually i know it wont come today but I still am sitting here expecting it.

 

Look in the ThinkPad Tabook (link in the ThinkPad Sticky). Browse that and identify models that match your relative requirements (display, GPU, CPU, etc), don't worry too much about RAM, HDD, or Battery as those parts are easy enough to upgrade on your own.

Once you have a type and model number (e.g. 2767-R3U) just Google the part numbers, and see who offers them for sale (e.g. ProVantage). This is often faster, and cheaper, if you can find a pre-configured model that comes close to your needs.

 

Many thanks for the info. In fact, one of the reasons for my buying Thinkpad is because a particular discount scheme is available to me that makes it a little more affordable to me. Will this still be available if I buy it from other sellers? Even a short Yes/No answer will be of great help. Because, otherwise I've now made up my mind to get the T500. With dedicated GPU, it will ship in about 9-11 days.

I'm not choosing the DVD W (choosing CD RW/DVD ROM instead) however because I've noticed I use it very less in my present computer. I'm buying a 320 GB external hard disk instead. I saw the "SSD effects" link in jonlumpkin's signature (and happened to bump into a similar thread)- I really liked the idea- I'm thinking to add a solid state disk for OS installation in the future. I'm not sure, but maybe, with the help of online manuals and help, I will be able to do that myself. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Bibek

 

No.

 

Hi,
Thanks for all the valuable help and replies.
Today, I ordered a T400 with the following specs (suddenly thinkpad website indicated that my choice would be shipped within 13 days):

ThinkPad T400 - 1 Yr Depot Warranty

Processor Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9400 (2.53GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
Operating system Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic
Operating system language Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic US English
System graphics ATI Mobility Radeon 3470 with 256MB
Total memory 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
Keyboard Keyboard US English
Pointing device UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
Hard drive4 160 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
Optical device DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)
System expansion slots Express Card Slot & 7-1 Media Card Reader
Bluetooth Integrated Bluetooth PAN
Wireless card Intel WiFi Link 5100 (AGN) with My WiFi Technology
Mobile Broadband Integrated Mobile Broadband upgradable
Battery 9 cell Li-Ion Battery
Power cord Country Pack North America with Line cord & 90W AC adapter
Language pack Language Pack US English

FreeAgent Go - hard drive - 320 GB - Hi-Speed USB

I'm waiting to lay my hands on this machine now

Cheers!
Bibek

 

Hi,
Thanks for all the valuable help and replies.
Today, I ordered a T400 with the following specs (suddenly thinkpad website indicated that my choice would be shipped within 13 days):

ThinkPad T400 - 1 Yr Depot Warranty

Processor Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9400 (2.53GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
Operating system Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic
Operating system language Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic US English
System graphics ATI Mobility Radeon 3470 with 256MB
Total memory 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
Keyboard Keyboard US English
Pointing device UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
Hard drive4 160 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
Optical device DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)
System expansion slots Express Card Slot & 7-1 Media Card Reader
Bluetooth Integrated Bluetooth PAN
Wireless card Intel WiFi Link 5100 (AGN) with My WiFi Technology
Mobile Broadband Integrated Mobile Broadband upgradable
Battery 9 cell Li-Ion Battery
Power cord Country Pack North America with Line cord & 90W AC adapter
Language pack Language Pack US English

FreeAgent Go - hard drive - 320 GB - Hi-Speed USB

I'm waiting to lay my hands on this machine now

Cheers!
Bibek