Linux or Vista

Buying a new laptop for the first time.....and am leaning towards the T61....only question is - i know a lot of people dislike vista....

is there any advantage to Linux???

 

Hell Yes! Linux is an open source operating system, which means its free and the source code is publicly available for modification. So if you have programming knowledge and find a fault, or think something needs to be improved or changed you can go into the code and fix it yourself. So problems get found and debugged really really quickly. Linux based servers comprise a large majority of all web hosting for their reliability so that should speak for itself.

On the flipside, Windows based programs need to be run through the linux compatibility layer called Wine, which isn't perfect. But they're improving it all the time and if you sign up to a linux forum you might even find someone to help you fix the problem.

If you set up a dual boot configuration you can run linux and Vista (just select the one you want at startup) and decide from personal experience which one you like best. Then just delete the other partition.

Grand Admiral

 

Linux good for:

1. General coding for different platforms C++/Java
2. Distributed Network Infrastructures. Best if your Server is Unix based
3. Device Driver Development
4. Open Source. You can contribute to the OS.
5. People familar with Linux environment (esp. emacs/vi + g++ ) are welcomed by most of the companies.

Cons:

No fancy GUI, Console Commands and ShortKey Combo Intensive, Learning Curve....


Linux for T61 makes it a super terminal, telnet to the main might be the way you work.

 

ok some of that may be over my head......but my brothers an engineer and could help me with the coding. If i buy the computer with linux....how do i set up a dual boot configuration?

so there are no shortkeys???? ie.....Control and shift operations? is there a way to get this somehow?

i would be using this for school......and want to create websites for a small business....no intensive gaming....

 

oh - and the linux version doesnt have mobile broadband......what is this used for anyways?

 

Good configuration?????


ThinkPad T61 15 Widescreen - 1 Yr Depot Warranty
Edit
Ships within 3-4 weeks** $1,744.00
$1,360.32
$1,744.00
$1,360.32

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T9300 (2.5GHz 800MHz 6MBL2)1
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop version 1012
15.4 WSXGA+ TFT
Intel GMA X3100 GM965
4 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)8
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) with Fingerprint Reader
160GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm4
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim5
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG10
Integrated Bluetooth PAN
9 cell Li-Ion Battery60
6465: Express - 1 Yr Depot Warranty7

Processor1 Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T9300 (2.5GHz 800MHz 6MBL2)

Operating System12 SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop version 10

Operating System Language SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop version 10 US English - 1 year support

Display Panel 15.4 WSXGA+ TFT

System graphics Intel GMA X3100 GM965

Total memory8 4 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)

Keyboards Keyboard US English

Pointing Device UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) with Fingerprint Reader

Hard Drive4 160GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm

Optical device5 DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim

System expansion slots PC Card Slot & Express Card Slot

Card Reader 4 in 1 Media Card Reader

Wireless cards10 Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG

Bluetooth Integrated Bluetooth PAN

Battery60 9 cell Li-Ion Battery

Power cord Country Pack North America

Language Pack Language Pack US English


40Y9214 1 Year On Site Upgrade with 1 Year ThinkPad Protection $119.00 $119.00

250510W ThinkPad Essential Port Replicator $179.00 $179.00

41U4944 Lenovo USB 2.0 Essential Memory Key - 2 GB $29.95 $29.95


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Just my opinion, but I don't think you should order the computer with Linux if you've never used it and are not a programmer or somewhat of an OS enthusiast. Doing something like investigating and fixing software bugs is not for everyone. I'm not saying that Linux is useful only for programmers, it's not. But in my view the fact that it is free and open-source doesn't mean that it's right for you. As imperfect as it may be, the $100 or so extra you pay for Vista may well worth it depending on what kind of user you are.

I'm by no means an expert in any of the Linux flavors, but I have some experience. I would only personally advise someone to use Linux if there was a clear reason for it (a class, professional reason, or personal interest), or if you have used it and the alternatives and prefer it.

To put it another way, IMO Vista is a safer bet if you've never used either one. You can always experiment with Linux on your own (perhaps via the free VMware player) and switch your machine over to it (or dual boot etc) if you like it, on your own time.

Just my two cents, your mileage will of course vary.

 

One huge advantage to Linux is that all drivers are integrated into the kernel. You will not need to download a driver, unless you are running cutting edge hardware. You are pretty much guaranteed compatibility and no conflicts on your system due to this.

Linux GUI is better than Vista. Have you seen Compiz Fusion? Just Google for Youtube videos featuring Compiz Fusion and it blows Vista away.

My shortcut key combos that do not depend on Thinkpad programs work on Linux (running Ubuntu here), ie. lock, suspend, and wireless.

The learning curve is there, but its very slight, and if you're not doing anything really special, it can be easily found via Google. If all you're doing is watching videos and browsing the web and creating websites, then Linux can definitely do it. (For videos, you may need to download codecs and add a restricted repository. it is not hard and there are directions all over the place on how to do so.)

Dreamweaver, the industry standard web site creation tool, runs on Linux via Wine. See http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=183

You really do not need to know how to code to fix anything. Most everything on Linux works. I've been running with Ubuntu for 4 months now, and I haven't needed to edit a single source file of a program. I have done some minor tweaks to various configuration files, but those were not required for functional operation, just my laziness.

The only significant issues I've encountered during my 4 months of heavy use were:
1. Browser plugins (Flash, PDF, Java) not working because I was running a 64 bit browser. The solution is to download a 32 bit browser and install the plugins there. If you are not using a 64 bit edition of Linux like I am, then you do not need to worry about this at all.
2. Codecs, solved by using VLC as well as adding a restricted repository that had all the non-free codecs on it. Not hard, there is a tutorial that walks you through it exactly.
3. Hibernation, still not solved, but it's not that big of a deal for me. Most people I've talked to about it have said that it is probably a nvidia driver issue.

If you do end up needing help, there are support forums for Linux all over the place. Free community driven Linux support is the best support you can find, barring having an actual software support contract. Usually somebody will answer within a couple hours (for easy questions). No need to wait on hold for useless Lenovo support and get the spiel about how they only support the hardware and not the software. No need to wait on hold for useless Microsoft support and get them to read Knowledge Base articles at you.

IMO, you don't need the Lenovo mouse or the memory key or the port replicator. You can find better mice and better USB keys for cheaper. The port replicator is only for lazy people really. You don't really gain anything over what you already have. Just be less lazy and spend the extra couple minutes plugging in USB peripherals.

 

So - for ease of use - should i get vista and then download and try linux since it is free - and if i like it switch over?

 

I tend to think curiosity is reason enough. Just go into it with an adventurous attitude and nothing to lose, and you'll be fine.

To make sure that's actually the case, I'd spring for Vista and make sure you make your restore DVD before you start with Linux. It is very much different, and you will make mistakes. Best protect yourself in case it's a big one like a misplaced space. There's a big difference between:

# rm -R /usr/local/foo

and

# rm -R / usr/local/foo
No Such File: ./usr/local/foo

Yes, that's from experience, but luckily I caught it before it got to my home directory. ('rm -R /' deletes everything) There isn't a lot protecting you from yourself in Linux and BSD, but it is a lot harder to make a mistake like that in a GUI. But I'd say the feelings of accomplishment as you learn are well worth the risks early on, not to mention that there's something of an adrenaline rush when you make that first break free from Windows.

Oh, and you don't need to know how to program, but it might make you want to learn! Honestly, you don't even need the command line most of the time, but it is there with all it's glorious power if you want it.

 

There's a reason why many distros have such commands behind a sudo prompt.

 

I just wanted to add my two cents here.

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T9300 (2.5GHz 800MHz 6MBL2)1
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop version 1012
15.4 WSXGA+ TFT
Intel GMA X3100 GM965
4 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)8
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) with Fingerprint Reader
160GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm4
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim5
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG10
Integrated Bluetooth PAN
9 cell Li-Ion Battery60
6465: Express - 1 Yr Depot Warranty7



If you've got the money it's fine. But from what I've heard 4gb isn't neccasry and the T9300 isn't that big of a difference for the money jump. But other than budget concerns it seems like an excellent setup, just don't expect too much from the video card.

Now about the linux... That's a hard decision. I wiped my entire XP off on a whim and installed ubuntu for no reason except that I hated all the little warnings that popped up saying "Your computer may not be protected!"

The learning curve is pretty steep. There are different distrobutions tailored for different levels of skill. I use ubuntu, and really enjoy it (a very friendly version with a excellent GUI, I like it wayyyy more than XP or Vista's). From what little I know about SuSE, it's supposed to resemble windows (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). But once you get the hang of it and get over the curve it becomes much easier. Fortunately there are many, many guides out there.

But seeing as you have no experience with linux yet... find an old copy of windows and daul boot. Many people prefer XP still today over Vista. If you need an activation code, look around the case of your old computer. I would only suggest you jump right into linux if you have the time, like a week, to play around with it.

 

Get it with Windows, you can use Ubuntu via Wubi without even formatting it, that way you get a safety net you are comfortable with, and can boot into Linux easily.

 

I bought mine with Vista Business, but I've tried both XP and Ubuntu.

I was surprised to find out that it took less time to configure Ubuntu 8.04 to get all the hardware working than to go through the clean install XP guide hovering around here.

As far as fancy GUI's go, the GUI's can be fancier than both OSX and Vista, with 3d desktops through XGL. What's not fancy is how you go about installing and configuring things in Linux. While you will easily install and maintain a lot of programs through apt-get, you will eventually have to resort to using a bunch of terminals to manually do something.

Check out http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki for guides on installing various linux distributions on ThinkPads and find out what works or doesn't on each of the versions. It will give you a better idea of what you might want to run on your ThinkPad.

Oh yeah, to the above remark, never type rm -rf (worse than rm -r because you add force) unless you are 100000% positively sure, I've killed a Slackware install while learning because of that :/

 

I second n1hilist's suggestion. Get Vista on the machine and try linux first. I also recommend Ubuntu because of the community support and ease of use. You can download and burn a copy to CD. The CD contains a live version of the OS so you can run it from the CD to see if you like it.

I wouldn't buy 4GB of RAM from Lenovo. Upgrading to 2-3GB isn't that much more expensive than installing you own but 4GB is way too much. I also wouldn't by two mice with the system unless you really need them. And if you do then buy them from Newegg or something.

Do you need onsite service? Not judging, just asking. If not, I'd recommend going with a three-year depot warranty for about the same price.

Also, don't forget to check the laptop deals tab above. There are ecoupons for the T61 now.

 

And don't forget to bookmark this: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_8.04_(Hardy_Heron)_on_a_ThinkPad_T61

 

IF you want to have more fun, install Linux will be better.