More RAM Speed for X201 Possible?

Need advice, can our X201 support the PC3-12800 DDR3? For example the Kingston HyperX Technology:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010170381 50011776&name=Kingston HyperX

Thanks

 

I believe the answer is no (the full speed will not be utilized), although really, you will not notice the difference at all. You might be able to see a small bit of difference in benchmarks, but that's definitely not worth your money.

 

what is the maximum bus speed does x201 has? Any ideas?

 

Just stick with the stock DDR3 bus that Lenovo sells at, it is hardly worth the cost as MidnightSun indicated above. 1066 is what's used I believe.

 

I've also wondered about this... According to Wikipedia:

"RAM supported for DDR3-800, DDR3-1066, DDR3-1333 and DDR3-1600 SO-DIMM."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino#Calpella_platform_.282009.29

I'm sure that going from DDR3-1066 to DDR3-1600 would give a nice boost in graphics performance. But I don't know if the memory will actually run at those speeds in the X201. It would be interesting to confirm this... Of course I wouldn't recommend buying the over-priced RAM at this point, but they will obviously get cheaper soon.. so they may be an interesting upgrade.

 

Update: I just found an interesting piece of info. On Lenovo's web site, if you go to the configuration page for the Thinkpad W701ds, here are the RAM options:

2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (1 DIMM)
3 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (2 DIMM)
4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (2 DIMM)
8 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (4 DIMM)
4 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 (1 DIMM)
8 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 (2 DIMM)
16 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 (4 DIMM)

So... there may be a chance that it would work

 

"More RAM Speed" ... there's something you don't read everyday...

 

I believe all the new Core i_ models support up to 1333MHz RAM, which would be PC3-10600 RAM. But the increased cost of those modules really isn't worth it - RAM is pretty much never the bottleneck of a system.

 

Generally you're right.. But integrated graphics is a nice exception.. it usually does get a good boost.

Also, I just checked newegg.ca and it seems that the cost of the 1066MHz RAM is about the same as the 1333MHz RAM:

$54.99 - G.SKILL 2GB 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231214

$54.99 - Kingston ValueRAM 2GB 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3 1066
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134693


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Edit: Looks like we have a definitive answer.. the X201 can NOT use DDR3-1333 RAM:

Core i7-620M: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=43560
Core i5-540M: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=43544

Memory Types: DDR3-800/1066

Looks like DDR3-1333 is only supported on the quad-core models...

 

So how much of a boost does the same integrated GPU get when the ram moves from 1066 mhz to 1333 mhz?

 

integrated graphics should be interesting ...

 

Glad you asked The reason why memory performance has a direct impact on integrated graphics performance is because it shares the system memory.. Whereas discrete cards have their own high-performance memory.

Here is some information that I have:

1. One of our members here at notebookreview tested their Intel GMA X3100 with a single channel and a dual channel memory configuration, and found that dual channel memory results in a significant increase in graphics performance, ranging from about 10% to 40% depending on the game:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=4843422&postcount=1684

Also, when I personally upgraded from 2GB (1 stick) to 4GB (2 sticks) on my X200 with GMA X4500 graphics, my Windows Experience Index for gaming graphics increased from 3.1 to 3.5... that's a 12% increase.

2. If you look at the reviews on AMD's Radeon HD3200 graphics, you will see that overclocking the HT bus results in a significant performance boost. This is why it performs much better with Phenom processors than with the Athlon X2.

3. In notebookreview's original review of the X200, their review unit came with DDR2-667, and they ran 3DMark06:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4497

However, the retail units of the X200 are all configured with DDR3-1066 RAM. I seem to remember that another member here ran 3DMark06 and got a better score than what the review posted (927). I couldn't find that, but if you guys want I can download and run the test to compare.


Sorry for taking the thread off-topic, but at least we found the answer to the OP's question

 

Andrew, the NBR reviewer, must have been confused. X200 has never supported DDR2 memory.

 

There were in fact pre-release models with DDR2 memory. And Andrew stated that it would be configurable with DDR3 memory when it is released, so I'm sure that he wasn't confused.

The Intel chipset supports both DDR2 and DDR3, so the only difference is which memory slot that Lenovo chooses to put in the system (the pin count is different for DDR2 and DDR3).

 

The mobile core i series supports a maximum of 1066MHz FSB on the RAM. Not only does HP mention that in their 2740P specs site, but so does Intel.

The best you can do is try to get low CAS latency RAM modules.

 

I find it hard to believe that, in addition to developing the DDR3 version of X200, Lenovo also did all of the following:

1. Developed a different X200 motherboard that suppot DDR2 (which requires new board wiring layout due to different power regulating circuitry, different pin count, and different chipset interfacing),
2. Manufacturered only a very small batch of them (undoubtedly at high cost due to low volume),
3. Sent one of the few (precious and inferior) engineering samples to an NBR reviewer (of all people), whose opinion has great influence over many potential customers, and
4. Promptly forgot about the whole business as if it never happened.

To the best of my knowledge, Lenovo never sold a single X200-series laptop that is compatible with DDR2 memory. Even the Celeron 723 models of X200s use DDR3 memory. No offense to Andrew, but I think it is easier for me to believe that he made a mistake in the review.

Too bad he never took a photo of the review unit with the memory bay door open; then we would know for sure.

 

If I were to get RAM that can run at faster speeds and lower latencies (CAS), would I be able to configure the FSB and memory controller to use these? Not necessarily in the BIOS, but using something else?

Or do ThinkPads rely exclusively on the SPD? I'm my experience, the SPD values are too conservative, and they rarely report the marketing latencies.

 

"sold to the public" and "created for testing" are two totally different animals.   i personally know of about a dozen demo systems containing components or configurations that will never be found through retail channels.   try not be so hard on andrew.

 

No. As my above post indicates, the 5 series chipset supports a maximum of 1066MHz FSB for both RAM and the processor. Period.

 

It was not my intention to pick on him; I just found the situation a little... hard to believe. Andrew, if you see my previous posts and feel offended, I hereby offer my sincere apologies.

 

I'm suggesting overclocking the FSB and lowering CAS latencies, using software.

Anyone?

 

Still confused, so is it possible to have more RAM?

 

No just go with 1066mhz.

 

so from what I get the memory will also depends on the FSB rite? Sorry that I am no tech guy, this is the reports generated from CPU-Z:

Processor 1 ID = 0
Number of cores 2 (max 8)
Number of threads 4 (max 16)
Name Intel Core i7
Codename Arrandale
Specification Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU M 620 @ 2.67GHz
Package (platform ID) Socket 1156 LGA (0x4)
CPUID 6.5.2
Extended CPUID 6.25
Core Stepping C2
Technology 32 nm
Core Speed 3192.4 MHz
Multiplier x FSB 24.0 x 133.0 MHz
Rated Bus speed 2394.3 MHz
Stock frequency 2666 MHz
Instructions sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EM64T, VT-x, AES
L1 Data cache 2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 32 KBytes, 4-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 2 x 256 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L3 cache 4 MBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes

Turbo Mode supported, enabled
Max non-turbo ratio 20x
Max turbo ratio 25x
Max efficiency ratio 9x
Max bus number 255
Attached device PCI device at bus 255, device 2, function 1

does it means that I have the 133 FSB then I am forever doomed with PC3-8500? What does it mean by Multiplier (x FSB)?

 

Multiplier times FSB basically gives you clock speed. Others have mentioned that the non quad core version of the arrandale chips only support a memory speed up to 1066mhz anyways.

There is a relationship with FSB and memory speed but you really do not need to worry about this...

Just stick with the 'stock' DDR3 speeds that Lenovo uses and you're fine. "Doomed" is also overly dramatic.

 

Correct, at least it did in the past. Increasing the FSB increased CPU speed, and implicitly increased memory speed. But this meant your CPU and RAM could only overclock in tandem, your overclocks would be limited by one or the other. More modern motherboards, such as my ASUS P5K, allow changing voltages, CPU multipliers, FSB speed / multipliers and memory speeds independently in the BIOS. It also allows for setting memory latencies (such as CAS and RAS) to override the memory SPD. This all allowed for upgrades for better memory that exceed the marketing frequencies, with lower latencies, and the Intel chipsets were usually good with these overclocks (they were usually not the limiting factor).

Base CPU FSB * the CPU multiplier = CPU speed. Intel Speedstep dynamically changes the multiplier based on demand, which is a nice feature.

Are you doomed? Well, the BIOS doesn't allow for changing much (enthusiast boards, such as from ASUS, allow much more configuration), and my quick search today showed software, such as SetFSB and MemSet, are out-of-date and do not support the QM57 chipset, so there doesn't appear to be much that can be done, at least not yet. Regardless, the overclocking the CPU and lower latencies will not usually provide a large increase in performance. But, earlier in this thread, there were comments that lower memory latencies had a significant impact on Intel 5700HD performance. If true, it would be a quick win to install low latency memory (and maybe boost the memory speed) for gamers, right to the limits of the Intel QM57 chipset. That's why I investigated further, but I didn't find any useful software to try this.

 

Higher RAM speed possible in X201? No. Only the quad core mobile processors (namely the 720/820/920QM) will support DDR3-1333. Hence, why you'll see those options in mobile workstations like the W701 since they have the options to use these CPU's. Had the memory controller still been separate from the CPU, there might have been a chance, but now that they are found on die, you're limited to what your specific CPU can handle.

 

It really does not matter, other than being able to say that "mine is bigger than yours." The performance difference between these two speeds is meaningless, even when you are talking about integrated GPUs. Higher memory speeds might mean better gaming, but that would be about it. But integrated GPUs suck for gaming anyway.

Capacity is what is key.

 

I hate it when people say that as an all-inclusive matter-of-fact. Please then tell me how all my games play fine on my T410 with Intel integrated graphics, if it sucks for gaming?

Battlefield 2/2142/1942, Medieval 2 etc all play wonderfully on my system.

 

Well most people don't buy a laptop now to play games that are 4+ years old. Even if you can play them well. If someone is looking to buy a laptop now and they're thinking about gaming, they're looking to play Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, Starcraft 2, Crysis etc...And integrated will not play these with any kind of decent settings.

 

Alright, let me rephrase that statement:
Intel IGPs are the weakest cards out there, and will probably only be suited for casual and/or old games.

 

so if I buy the PC3-8500 HyperX Tech then will it have any effects? The lower the latency the faster it is right?

 

The effects will be negligible and I assume the motherboard will just default to the cl7 speed it is suppose to run at.

Just get the Lenovo stock speed ram equivalent that we've been harping on. This isn't a desktop you're tweaking every component of...

 

As long as your have 4GB, save your money, since no amount of money will actually give you any benefits in the memory department (unless you have specific usages for it).

 

Noted .. just looking for some ways to speed up the new X201

 

Do you have an SSD?

 

nope, and not planning to buy it yet. Still very expensive (for me) and I need a big storage for my work files. I would calm if I have a 512GB storage space but is it safe yet? I heard the first and second generation is not safe yet and we can lose data anytime? Correct me if I'm wrong

 

You can lose data on a spinning hard disk too at any time.

If you need the space, understandable. But I would not agree with mass failure in a general sense. Intel's G2 drives are quite good. Although since you cannot afford it, you will have the opportunity to get even better drives in the future with even more mature controllers.

 

almost all SSDs have extra cells in them to accommodate worn or failed cells.   sure, controllers can go bad but you're more likely to have an HDD crash than an SSD by a large margin.

an SSD is a better place to put your money than the $110+ you planned to <s>waste</s> spend on memory.   good SSDs can be found for $150~200 depending on the capacity.

 

Well, SSD is definetly the future, so will wait until the 512GB is released and into the 3rd Gen. I read the user comments on Newegg, Corsair SSD has a lot of problems and we can lose data instantly ...

 

Well you have to buy SSDs with the good controllers. You just aren't going to get anywhere near that capacity right now for cheap with a good controller. There are space vs speed trade offs.

 

like with anything, keep proper backups.   if the drive in your notebook is the one and only place you keep your data then you're taking a risk every day.   like i said above, moving objects are much more likely to fail than stationary ones (poor-quality SSDs notwithstanding).

 

apropos backups, can we configure thinkvantage rescue and recovery just to backup a certain folder? Or is there any program just to backup a folder? I put my files into this one folder with huge sub folders.

 

So here's a question, if I can choose between DDR3 1066MHz and DDR3 1333MHz for the same price, can the X201 use the 1333MHz, even if it cannot support the speed? Will there be a performance hit?

 

The X201 should downclock the 1333Mhz to 1066Mhz. So there should be no difference in performance between the two RAM

 

Cool, thanks, just wanted to make sure.

 

Since you can't change the processors' FSB to 1333, you are wasting time getting 1333 mhz ram. 1066 is the max for all real performance.

 

Wasting time, how so? I can choose between the two RAM speeds, and actually, the 1333 comes out cheaper. If my X201 can accept both, then why go for the 1333 right?

 

If your FSB is 1066 and your RAM frequency is 1333, that means your ram is running faster than your FSB can move information into it.

It won't hurt you to go to 1333 RAM (although there was a debate about that a long time ago), but it just won't help.

 

If it's cheaper, just get it, but don't expect any performance benefits.