I'm not objecting to anything (or agreeing for that matter). The only point that I made to start this whole thing was that he was pointing out his observations. I never commented on whether or not they were true or false, right or wrong, or anything else. In fact, I'm indifferent to it to a large degree. He hasn't changed my opinion about or desire for a Thinkpad. He obviously was going to rub a lot of the Thinkpad bunch the wrong way because some people on here act like its sacrilegious to say anything negative about Thinkpads, even when it isn't all that negative at all. Some people get uber defensive at the inkling that Thinkpads may not be perfect or whenever anyone suggests that there may be a better brand, even though that's clearly subjective and a matter of opinion.
I happen to think very highly of Thinkpads; otherwise, I wouldn't have spent the last 8 months researching them almost exclusively. In fact, I'm only weeks away from putting in an order (T500). However, I've had the pleasure of using one when it was IBM and I, like a lot of others, notice the difference. Going all the way back to the beginning, I'll reiterate that that's all I thought the guy in the video was trying to say. Maybe I'm not reading as much into it, or maybe some are reading too much into it. Again, it's all a matter of opinion and/or interpretation.
So I'll say loud and clear: To those who are fortunate to own T400s or 500s or any other Thinkpad models, I hope you got the machine that gets the job done. I hope that you got the machine you read about, dreamed about, fantasized about, or just plain wanted for all practical purposes.
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Ok to stop this whole argument. Lenovos are not perfect. Just because you have one does not make them the god of laptops. To randomly bash sony in your review was not wise and very ignorant of you. End of story.
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At some point, he's just going to have to accept that there are people out there who don't believe the Thinkpads are the best thing since sliced bread. There are actually people out there who prefer something different or, in the case of the reviewer, a better product. -
sonoritygenius Goddess of Laptops
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I have been shopping heavily for a new notebook and went to J&R in Manhattan to research. Let me settle this all and tell you that I went there because they have Thinkpads on display, and there is one advantage of the Thinkpad: The keyboard is still great. HOWEVER: The build of the machine is junk; it is a bunch of plastic screwed pushed together. There is no comparison with the Sony and even HP's who have either carbon/metal unibody designs, diminishing flex and much more impressive in looks.
Touch the Vaio Z and you won't look at lenovo again; even the HP's have a better body; their down is the keyboard and the screen is crazy high gloss. Spend the extra on the Z and you will be way happy you did. Comfy keyboard, that will take getting used to in the form of Fn-arrow keys for page up/down home/end which is sensible anyway, a good change in my opinion.
The T400 is a huge disappointment for me. -
BTW, that is why the Lenovo prices are falling, cuz there is no support for them. And it is why Sony can command such pricing, because they make the grade, the Lexus of notebooks.
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I didn't look too deeply but I don't think HP offers any decent graphics options for their laptops.
The Sony Z looks nice and I am a fan of Vaios but I'm not really sure what you're getting at as the Z starts at nearly double the price of a T400.
Shiny display is subjective. I personally don't mind either way, I like the vibrant colors of glossy displays sometimes. For looks, no one is going to argue with you there, but looks are also subjective and I don't spend too much time staring at bezels and palmrests. I actually like the matte black plastic, but I agree that it could be more sturdy. The underlying structure of the laptop is strong though.
For the price and features, Lenovo wins all the way. It is extremely durable, but not the best looker. It's still going to be my choice. -
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An honest confession of a keyboard maniac with typing sensory issues:
I have been going around typing on display models since about two months prior to the release of the T400, thinking that I would be getting that model. A close friend has a Thinkpad, and I loved the type feel on it. The forthcoming T was a no brainer for me. As an aside, I do like my Inspiron 8600, and would have considered the Dells again. Problem with Dell is that the Inspiron has cheap plastic keys, even on the XPS. The Studio has a good keyboard, but the case is very plasticy, and there is no excuse for it considering the competition.
HP has a good body going, but the keys have a slippery feel and the screens are so reflective you can shave against them. Uch.
So we come to the Sony. The changes are logical, such as the page up/down home/end keys being Functions of the arrow up/down right/left keys. I dont think it will take too long, but it is an extra keystroke that there is room on the keyboard for them to have made dedicated keys. I believe that it is thier style, for they have the same layout on many of their models.
The Z has a very natural feel to it, and the screen blows away the competitoin. Granted it is thin and you can push behind it and it will bend, but that is inconsequential for how often do you do such a thing? Screens go up and down; we dont play with them. But we do play with the keys and rest upon the keypad.
Lenovo really screwed up if you ask me. They could have had a solid construction ,get rid of the stupid plastic and get with the program. it is like comparing a Lexus and Ford car. I LOVE the trackstick, but I am willing to move on for better quality, as one who loves stick shifts has to give in to the automatic transmission cars.
Is it worth the difference? It depends how much you use the system. Consider that, for most of us, our computers are our portals to life, for everyting we do. Higher quality is a small price to pay, in my humble.
Have a great weekend; all the best - -
I know this is a T400 thread, but can anyone comment on the X200? I've heard generally positive reviews about its build quality. It seems the T400 is kinda big/heavy and the build quality is sloppy...the X200 seems more dense and solid.
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philosopherdog Notebook Consultant
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philosopherdog Notebook Consultant
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No disrespect, but if you don't want people "insinuating" that you're a fanboy, then stop coming across like one. I think if you read a lot of other posts, you'll see that I'm not the only one who has gotten that impression. You even referred to someone defending Sony as a Sony fanboy. How is what you're doing any different? Honestly, even if you were a fanboy, then so what? You'd hardly be the only one. Just stay away from youtube clips and any other site where people may wish to degrade Thinkpads.
In the end, to each his or her own. If you're happy, then I'm happy. Currently, I have no laptop, so I'm a few steps behind you and anyone else who does. One day, however, I hope to be fortunate enough to have one of any brand that I can afford. I'm officially done with this whole thing (better late than never). After this, you can go on to say whatever you want about me or what I've said if you'd like, but you won't get a response from me. I'll mind my own business and drink my own Kool-Aid. -
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The pros of a vaio notebook is clear to see. The form factor, the carbon fibre and the outstanding screen are self evident from the moment you lay eyes on it. The fact that it is extremely light is a major plus to the aspect of mobility.
I happened to have owned five VAIOs in the past including the sz6 and sz7. These were the flagship models for business users at the time.
However, these notebooks have presented problem after problem including but not limited to:
A dvd-burner that was not responsive to certain disks
Inconsistent purple lines along some parts of the screen
Noisy or defecive fan
Uneven lighting on the screen
Light leakage
Battery leak
Malfunctioning hard disk
Uneven hinges on the base
Hard disk failure
The LED problem was a major issue in 2007 with the later models of Szs. It was difficult in Australia, to find an Sz with a pure white screen.
Since the sz5, the dvd burner has been a consistent problem as having trouble reading lower quality CDs.
Light leakage is prevalent among 95% of all VAIO computers, a quick search will verify this.
Battery leak is a huge issue with the current line of Vaio Zs, and is a well known issue with VAIO computers. The following links has 20 pages detailing this as well as the light leakage.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=299109
The fan I had for my first SZ made a high pitched sound as it moved up into high modes. When i took it in for service, they said they would replace it. It turned out that the fan was not the major problem at all but rather the mixture of internal components such as the northbridge of the motherboard. This is also a known issue with the Dell XPSM1330.
The second Vaio I had also had a fan problem, where the fan would stay on it's second setting because of either how much heat it was using or because it was malfunctioning. It turned out to be a malfunctioning unit as I was given a replacement which didn't have a problem.
The very first VAIO i used died within a few months. The symptoms was it not even going beyond the first boot screen. The Sony technicians said it was a hard disk failure.
The very last VAIO I used has a hard disk malfunction which caused clicking noises and the shock protection to engage perpetually every two seconds. That was the last straw that made me refund the product and make the decision never to get a VAIO again.
I almost thought of getting the VAIO Z, as it looks sweet and has a lot of power. Money was never an issue for me. However, the Australian configurations do not have blu-ray or sd hard disks as an option. Furthermore the VAIO Zs at the moment are at their first stages of commericial distribution and require a lot more refinement. There are also issues with the Nvidia graphics causing the card to overheat. There is also the problem of the fan sounds being extremely noisy. I am a sucker for expensive and flash looking things. I sometimes think I'm a glutton for punishment, by getting a laptop from a company that has failed me five times. If not for the fact the configurations in Australia were so bad, I may have actually tried my luck again. In the end, I'm not relying on the company's internal quality control procedures but luck. Sony computers are good in theory but in practice they are not; at least in my experience.
The bottom line is that if you want a computer with the best features and reliability you want to go for a thinkpad. That is what I'm planning on buying. Forget the hassles of repair, forget the hassle of malfunctioning parts and just get a computer for what it does best. A quick search for VAIO problems or Z problems will give you pages of results. I've spent the last half an hour looking for Thinkpad problems using search terms such as 'thinkpad problems' or 't400 problem' or 'thinkpad noise' and I have found very little negative posts. The only thing that is common is a black screen problem and that seems to be caused by a software issue. If you type in Z problems, SZ problems, etc you tend to generate a lot more. The other main benefit I can see from getting a thinkpad t400 is much more battery life and a quieter and cooler system. -
Finally another real Sony SZer, somewhat like myself, who understands the pros and cons of a Sony. Once again, Ive owned both a Sony and a ThinkPad and I am far more pleased with the ThinkPadand yes, the ThinkPad is not as flashy as the Sony (no carbon fiber offerings from Lenovo), but Ive also had the luxury of working with several dozens of laptops over the years (HP, Dell, Sony, Toshiba, whatnot) and, even with its flaws, this T400, so far, has proven to be the best notebook Ive used.
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philosopherdog Notebook Consultant
Thanx for the useful feedback from the VAIO owers. I had a friend with one that had a defective memory slot, and this was a known problem with the model she had. Of course this sort of thing does happen, but it happens a lot with VIAO brand computers. Just google "vaio class action" if you insist these are great machines.
Anyhow, I was roaming around my local Bestbuy/Futureshop yesterday and took in the offerings. The best low priced machines seemed to be the HP. For $599 Canadian you could get a 6500 series HP! That is cheap, and they're decent machines. It had a very solid plastic molding, they've improved the keyboards. I think it was a dual core amd with 3 gbs of ram and a 250 gb HD. Very decent. There were other HP's in the $1000 range that weren't nearly as well built. The casing was sloppy IMO.
There were Acers as well. The HP is a far better deal than Acer. That's too obvious to state.
They had plenty of lower end Sonys ($1000+ for basic configurations) and one in the $1500 range. These were the worst of the offerings in the store. The plastic cases were pathetic, keyboard were crap, and the mouse keys were junk. Just pressing on the top of the screen the whole thing just caves in. The more expensive one, I can't recall the model, was sort of a brushed aluminum that was basically a very poor attempt at an Apple notebook with the same style keyboard as the new Macbook aluminum. It looked bad and wasn't particularly well made. $1500 CND. The specs don't come close to the T400 I just bought.
There were Toshiba's. But I think the HP's were a much better choice, although some of them seemed fairly well constructed.
Apple's new notebooks were the best made by far. But then you have to deal with not being able to run full versions of Office and the limitations of the platform. But they were extremely well crafted. No doubt about it.
Anyhow, my girlfriend was buying a camera and when we cashed out I looked at the machine that Futureshop runs their business on. It was a Lenovo of course! The electronics shop doesn't use Sony or HP. Not heavy duty enough for serious work. They use IBM/Lenovo. Quality keyboard and display that can be pounded on all day. Draw your own conclusions.
To say that a computer the Z series VIAO is a better machine than the T400 is absurd. It's 2-3X the price of the T400. Enough said.
Of course you can get a machine with good plastic molding around the wrist rest for $600., like the HP6500 series. But come on. You have to look under the freakin hood. Computers aren't just about how well the plastic has been molded. The T400 totally smokes. It might not have the old Thinkpad quality on the wrist rest. The plastic is as good as anything I've seen aside from Apple. But if you look under the hood, this is a far superior machine. It doesn't get hot. Period. If you have a notebook that's cranking away in a tiny case with a huge processor and it gets hot, what use is it? That's the death knell of a laptop. Take the T400 apart and take a good look at that cooling system and then compare that to one of those little VIAOs before you post more nonsense here. If you think the VIAO is even in the same league then you simply don't have a clue what you're talking about. On the other hand if you want to buy a Z series for $3000 then go for it. I'm sure your parents will cover it.
Finally, you have to look at the support for the macine. Are drivers being updated and do they work or are they buggy. Lenovo's drivers seem to be rock solid. I was easily about to downgrade to XP Pro on mine. Everything worked. So, for a machine whose starting price is about $900 I'm not seeing anything that comes close. So Sony fanboyz give us all a bloody break. Most of us have learned the hard way that Sony is not what it used to be. They still make good high end headphones though. -
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Hmmm. So what the heck are we supposed to buy!!!!?????
Anyone for a thinkpad inside and sony outside with HP pricing? -
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Dare I question: Has anybody, esp. Lenovo guru's, experienced the Dell Latitude E6400 in comparison to the T400?
Especially concerning keyboard, casing and screen (LED)?
Thanks all; hopefully someone in a lab somewhere is using this great feedback give and take. -
philosopherdog Notebook Consultant
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This is a little on the extreme side of things, where I activate Battery Stretch from the get go, NO wireless, 2 bars on my screen, and low volume. I also undervolt my processor.
It's actually not bad for watching a Divx in a dark setting.
From a regular work point of view though, I can irk out about 6hours and 40 minutes to 7 hours with the screen at reasonable brightness, wireless on, and processor running at battery optimized -
If you get a T400... don't stress out about battery life. When I got mine, I tried every power management tool, trying to get my wattage down low enough so I could get 9 hours of battery life with wifi/word.... it is possible, but you'll waste so much time doing before you realize you've never come close to using it 9 hours at once.
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So I'm now looking at what else to buy and I must admit the Dell 6400 is looking ok, even though I had always hated every Dell I've used -> this one looks ok. Dilema: throw the dice with Lenovo again and risk a similar experience or with Dell and hope the 6400 is as good as it looks knowing their Cust Service is way better. I guess customer experience is very much dependent on where you live and where the service is supplied from. Lenovo Australia = pretty ordinary.
Andy -
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I've called Lenovo Australia today regarding a purchase of the T400. At the moment I'm saving 28% from the original retail price via their website and a further 20% through coupons. Does anyone know if Christmas brings even better discounts?
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I think the sales department in Lenovo Australia are very professional. Their etiquette and use of words to escape any contractual liability is what is expected of customer sales in any field.
The issues that were outstanding were that they were unable to give precise details of the computers they are selling. They claimed the six cell battery in the T400 were a perfect fit with no protrusion, which I hear is false. I've heard a lot of Lenovo employees from the US giving the same misleading information.
Lenovo were also unable to give a precise battery life estimate saying that 10 hours was almost impossible. They also didn't have a clue of what it meant to optimize the computer for maximum time usage.
The Lenovo sales representative also recommended 3gb of ram rather than 4. This would of course not allow me to use the ram in dual channel. The sales representative recommended 3gb to avoid tech noobs from complaining later that their operating system was only recognising 3.
The sales representative also recommended I use Vista business despite the fact he knew I used my computer mainly for uni. Which I guess was his up sale attempt.
He also tried to pretend that he could give me discounts that I couldn't get online, once again assuming I didn't know how to use e coupons. The coupon he offered me was in fact worse than the one I had. When I asked him if he could give me an additional bonus, he said he could not.
Lastly, when I asked him about the potential problems that LED technology had especially with regard to my experiences with Sony. He guaranteed me that Lenovo generally has very little returns and that generally people were satisfied. I wasn't satisfied with his answer. He then recommended for me not to get an LED screen if I was worried. I found that a bit ignorant of him considering I wanted an LED screen because of it's benefits. I asked him to give me a guarantee that if there was a problem that he would exchange it for a new computer. He asked me if i wanted to buy the computer today, he put me on hold for five minutes and then told me that only technical support can give me that guarantee.
Lastly Lenovo does not have a return policy at any time frame. Unless the computer is DOA, I presume.
Overall, I didn't gain any useful information from the hour long phone call I had with them. However, their ability to market their product and sales expertise was professional. They are good salesman and would deceive the ordinary buyer, however I am more prudent than that. Are they good salesman? Yes. Are they helpful? No. -
Is Dell better? I would say DEFINITELY NOT! I had purchased a Dell XPS M1330 in the past. It came with a whiny northbridge/cpu/motherboard despite the pre-warning I gave the sales department saying I was aware of the issue and I would want a refund if my computer had the defect.
Dell customer sales in Australia are absolutely incompetent. Their business etiquette is poor. They didn't return calls even though I made it very apparent I wanted a return call to make the purchase. They refused to give any discounts, they delayed calls, hung up on calls, the manager Eugene (who later changed jobs) offered me a deal that was later not honored. It took them weeks to get people to return my computer. The fact the sales consultants had an annoying Malaysian accent did not help things. Service was sloppy, phones were not answered, calls not returned, emails not returned, they were rude. While Lenovo were smart salesman wanting to make a quick buck. The Dell staff are incompetent salesman wanting to make a quick buck. That is the difference. -
When the machine arrived I pulled from the box, put it on the table and noticed it flexing when ever you placed pressure on the RHS palm rest. It was so bad the left rear would lift off the table. Initially I thought, uneven surface or the rubber foot rest was not mounted properly. Same on every surface I tried, the rubber feet were mounted correctly -> the only logical explanation is that the chassis is not straight.
Anyway have a look at the youtube video /watch?v=HrerGDrMYlE just to see the degree of flex. After they watched the video Lenovo declared it DOA and have been stuffing around ever since.
After they DOA'd it the T400 came on sale 10% on the web so I insisted they refund 10% since they were about to order it at the same time. Initially they agreed (I screen capped the offer on the web site). The next day the offere was over and they could not verify the deal -> I sent in screen caps and the coupon code to verify my story. They agreed again then a day later declined. I have placed over 20 calls to them and have felt that I have been quite reasonable. Every time I call they have additional information but they have never called or e-mailed me. It's like herding cats.
I place a lot of weight on the level of customer service you get from a company (especially when you use the product to earn an income) -> the experience I had over the last 2 weeks was far too much trouble -> I should buy two cheap laptops and keep one as a hot spare rather than deal the Lenovo CS (or Customer Care as they call themselves).
Andy -
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Nonny, as far as I've heard the US does have a exchange time frame for Lenovo Computers. I don't think this applies to Lenovo Australia unfortunately. The link you provided mainly deals with the simplification of the call centre options.
The pictures on the link you provided shows that there is a 0 inch protrusion from a 4 cell battery. However clearly a 6 cell battery has a 1 inch protrusion as marked on the site. -
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Thanks for your help Nonny, I'm keen to see Lenovo's response to your email.
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My T400 just arrived - 11am EST, Nov. 24.
Ok - the keyboard: Yes, there is flex. I am not sure that the feel bothers me so much as the look. I would not return the computer beacuse of this. Only because I am anal about this stuff, I MAY consider replacing the keyboard. I looked at the screws aon the back all of them were rock tight.
The screen (LED Backlight) is incredible; beautiful, bright and clear.
Anyone have the keyboard replacement info; advice and directions?
So far, the T400 feels solid (no soft flex anywhere else). Again, the keyboard feel is not horrible - it's accepable, actually. But, I may wish to change only that.
The machine feels and looks well-made. -
Hi all,
Got my t400 today too.
Some quick thoughts:
1. The notebook is kind of big, I wish it was like a quarter inch slimmer on the length and depth.
2. I compared both the CCPL and the LED screen (I have 2 T400s), LED definitely looks better, the CCPL looks kind of washed out.
3. Compare to my cheapo 14.1 HP that I got from Bestbuy, the T400 flexes alot all over the place (but is more of a thinner plastic flex rather then weak plastic and bad construction flex), but the t400 is lighter.
4. Keyboard flex is there like everyone said. But unless I press my fingers on it to intentionally look for it, I did not notice it.
5. Running dual SSD at the moment (both samsung, one MLC and one SLC) will post some benchmarks soon.
Overall I like it alot, there is nothing out there at this price that compares. Yes the cheapo $600 HP and getaway systems at Bestbuy looks nice on paper but the parts are cheaper, Lenovo t400 got all the right parts for a cooler system that runs longer (DDR3, P series cpu (25w), GMA X4500 chipset etc. Not to mention the SSD, GPS and ATT 3G.
My specs
p2.26ghz cpu
14.1, 1280x800 with camera
64GB SSD
AT&T 3G
5100 Wifi
BlueTooth
Vista Basic
1GB ram
6 cell battery
ATI 3570 video
SD card reader
CDRW drive
Total price before tax: $1038 -
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There is really no flex at all on mine, except for the keyboard - and that's if I am being a touch picky. Overall, this machine feels quite solid.
After reading numerous posts about quality, in particular the flex issues, I am rather pleased with the unit I received. I believe my observations are fair and not simply "buyer rationalization".
You had mentioned that you may be leaning to the T500. The large screen in principle seems to sound nice. However, I find the T400's LED screen to be very clear and bright. The 14.1" size is fine with me - I wear reading glasses, too.
I guess my general impression is that this is a very good machine in itself, AND considering the price and features, this is an exceptional value. -
Oh I forgot - the Thinklight - dumb question:
How does one engage this light that illuminates the keyboard? I am interested to see if I get blinded? I searched but, could not find how to turn this on. Thanks. -
IIRC it's just FN and the corresponding number at the top, one of the buttons has the picture on it.
I would check but the 3 t-400's we have our all checked out. -
Sorry, I am answering my own questions:
The ThinkLight can be controlled via the FnPageUp key combination or via ACPI on some of the newer models.
BUT, I did not feel blinded in any way by this light even tiliting the keyboard sharply. Maybe it's just me. Maybe the brightness of the LED screen itself help soften or diffuse the light's intensity. -
Perhaps this is of interest - here is a links that modifies some of the uses of the Thinklight
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkLight
My T400 arrived! First impressions....
Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by philosopherdog, Nov 18, 2008.