My first and last Lenovo ... SOLVED?

I'm making a new thread so that people don't only see the negative title of the initial thread, which is here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=204229

Since my dead end call ended at 2 AM, I went to bed and called Lenovo tech support back this morning. It was like night and day! (Pun not intended, but never was the phrase more apt - even the wait time was about 1 minute.)

I got a fantastic guy, who I'll just call Weston. Articulate, clearly understandable, good humored, smart and clever, and willing to get involved with the inner workings of the Linksys - to an appropriate extent - to investigate why the T61 gave me problems that my Panasonic did not.

We tried taking all security off of my Linksys. No dice.

As we were going through the Linksys settings again, he had one of those brilliant insights - the kind I was looking for when I was thinking, could there
be some setting lurking deep in the background that I had forgotten about? On the Linksys, there's the ability to restrict which computers can connect to it by entering their MAC addresses in one of the input screens. When I'd set up the Linksys over 2 years ago, I'd enabled that feature. So I added the T61's MAC address (the wireless one, not the ethernet one) to the list. Did it work?

No. Ouch! I'd really wanted it to work! So we tried turning everything off and on, resetting preferred networks, etc. (Oh, by the way, this was all done using the Windows wireless software, not ThinkVantage - even the tech said there could be conflicts if both were used, and that if I was comfortable with Windows I could consider uninstalling the Access Connect part of TV.)

As I was looking at the Wireless Mac Filter page of the Linksys setup, I noticed a button "Wireless Client List", and was curious what it did, so I pushed it. It gives you back a list of all the MAC addresses it recognizes, and lets you sort them in various ways. Well, it only showed the Panasonic's MAC, even though I'd added the Lenovo's MAC. So I turned everything off, etc, etc - still no dice.

At this point we agreed I should continue the investigation with Linksys. I thanked him profusely, told him how terrific he was, and wished him well.

Now the story gets strange, and veers into the Windows twilight zone that hamproof described above, where things fix themselves. My notes show the following:

1. Before calling Linksys, I Turned everything off, then back on. The T61 connected instantly and automatically to a neighbor's unsecured network that I'd used as a test previously. This was the first time the T61 had connected automatically to anything! But not to my network. So ...

2. I then refreshed the network list so I could select my own network and get off my neighbor's network. The list window went blank and it said something like "Windows can't connect to anything wireless at all". So I went into advanced settings and re-clicked "Let windows do its thing", which was unchecked. (This had been checked and unchecked during the testing process.) I refreshed the list, and my network was included. I selected it, and ... THE T61 CONNECTED TO MY NETWORK! Although it was unsecured and without the MAC-specific feature. Could I now add back the security?

3. But suddenly my Panasonic couldn't even see my network. Why? I tried and retried ... suddenly it was able to connect. Who knows why it took so long? SO NOW BOTH PCs WERE CONNECTED to the unsecured router.

4. I added back the encryption. I was able to reconnect the T61 once I entered the password. The T61 evidently figured out the encryption method on its own I didn't have to enter WPA, etc manually.

5. To complete the router's security, I wanted to add back the MAC Filtering feature. I did, and powered off/on the router. Now neither PC would connect automatically, as I'd expected. The Panasonic asked for the password and reconnected succcessfully. But the T61 DID NOT. I checked the list of MAC addresses - the T61's address was there in the input box, but (again, as I'd seen on the call with Lenovo) not in the Wireless Client List. So it still seemed like the Linksys was not fully acknowledging the T61's MAC address, even though it was there in the input box. (And yes, I had "saved settings" as the Linksys requires - several times earlier.)

6. NOW it was time to call Linksys. But someone came to my front door, and that kept me occupied for about 15 minutes. When i got back, the T61 radio link was off (it seems to shut itself off after a few minutes of inactivity - I hope I can change this feature), so I turned it back on, refreshed the network list, and ... NOW IT WORKED?!?! Why? Who knows?!?! So now, both PCs were connected to the encrypted, secured router, as I'd intended 12 hours earlier.

7. To put the icing on the cake, I rechecked the MAC list in the Linksys setup window, and ... THERE WAS THE T61's MAC ADDRESS, IN "MAC 02" just as it should be.

So the Lenovo, or the Linksys, fixed itself while I was at the door? I didn't turn anything on or off - although the T61's radio turned itself off. Yes, I turned it back on, but how could that have caused the second MAC address to suddenly appear in the Wireless Client List and, apparently, enable the T61 to connect to my own secured, encrypted network?

So my Lenovo will connect to my wireless network, at least for now ... (eerie twilight zone music here). Who knows whether it will work later on?

So even though the "good Lenovo tech" didn't immediately solve the problem, I believe it was his idea about the MAC addresses that held the key. It's interesting that Linksys missed it in their 3-level, 2-hour investigation for which I still give them high praise.

It's also interesting that I searched all over the web for help on this, trying many combinations of search terms, and the MAC issue didn't show up. But I guess there are many, many reasons why people can't connect to Linksys routers, and perhaps the MAC setting IS mentioned somewhere that I didn't find.

So that's the story - I hope that's the end of it, but ... well ... you all know computers.

If you've read this far, I hope you learned something (nothing snarky, please - I'm being constructive here).

Another moral of the story: as "dimonay" said, there ARE good techs, even at Lenovo. If you get treated shabbily, do try again - maybe you'll luck out and get Weston.

 

Good to hear everything is fixed. You can see why some of us were skeptics when you said you didn't do anything to the T61 and it won't connect to your router.

I mean who these days do not set some security either via WEP/WPA or MAC filtering or unbroadcast SSID on their router. Apparently your neighbor still does Maybe you should let them know.

My T61p wireless can be controlled 2 ways. One is a physical toggle in the front of the notebook. If that is off, everything is off including BT. If that's on, I can still hit FN+F5 (??) to either turn off or on Wifi or BT individually. I don't recall if there's a sleep setting. This is my first TP. So, I'm sure others have better answers.

But like my own personal experience as well, I didn't know why my T61p can't connect securely via WPA on my relative's router when I was there during the holidays, but a reboot manage to have it working and it worked the rest of the time I was there.

A quirk of M$ Vista or XP in your case. Might be Linksys as well.

 

That doesn't seem right for your T61 to automatically connect to any wireless network, especially without your consent. What are the wireless networks listed in your Wireless Network Connection Properties?

 

2 threads on this? maybe you could have just edited the first thread?

 

If I was the original poster, I'd sheepishly be posting a retraction. It sounds like both LinkSys and Lenovo are getting a bad rap because the owner of the router chose to make some security changes on the router which blocked the new PC from connecting. I've done stuff like this before, and laughed at myself later -- not pointed fingers at others or made bold statements like I will never buy X products again. It sounds lke the Lenovo tech did a fair amount of troubleshooting on the machine. Granted, the suggestion to replace the wireless card was a bit preposterous. I'm very surprised that LinkSys did not force them to restore the router to factory defaults, as that certainly would have solved the issue (and in less than the 2 or so hours the call was).

 

Ark,

This is an area I have a little knowledge of.

1.) The behavior from the beginning sounded like MAC filtering was on the router.

2.) There is a mode Wireless mode called discovery. Discovery is turned on an off by profile contents. To users this manifests itself as Public or Private Network. Discovery is usually turned off for public networks for security reasons. When discovery is turned off you can't see other nods.

3.) Good cards, especially Atheros cards, have something called "aggressive roaming". The level of aggressiveness of the roaming can be usually controlled (driver dependent) on the cards properties panel in device manager.

Wireless is a fascinating area. I'll have to send you a piece of wireless software I wrote.

LTG, I really agree.

 

ej,

Thanks for sharing the end result. I bet you will never forget about MAC filtering! I did once too....



Renee,

I think you are right about Atheros. Anytime I get into trouble, I break out the Russian icebreaker....my Atheros pcmcia card.



All,

And why didn't we all think of resetting the darn router!



Is this fun or what?



Enjoy your new PC, ej.

alacrity

 

I am relieved to hear of your interim solution to this problem at the moment but I have another thing to check for on Linksys router.

I don't know which version you may have but it should generally be the same. As you said that the your linksys is your main router try this out:
1) Log-in to router
2) Click DHCP tab
3) Look at "Number of DHCP Users:"
4) On that state back how many it says, if it says 1, then your router is only configuring access to one computer at a time, change that value to like 2-3 or even 5.

That can usually be overlooked so hopefully that doesn't make you go out and spend some money where it need not be.

 

This is an excellent suggestion as well. There are so many ways you can shoot yourself in the foot via network devices it's not even funny. DHCP scope, VLAN settings, encryption settings/keys, MAC filtering, locked port speeds or duplex settings, etc, etc, etc. It all seems well and good when you do it, it kicks your butt later when you forget.

 

i think T61 and linksys don't like each other
my T61 has the same problem with the linksys router at home. especially when i updated the wireless intel agn driver to the latest, it kept turning off and on. now i rolled back the driver to the original one that came installed by lenovo and it works fine. one crazy thing: sometimes when i connect to the linksys router, my t61 kicks one of the other laptops in the house out of the internet . i think it's an IP conflict issue, i'll take a look when having time.

 

i had massive problems with my linksys router and old t40...i had to get a dlink router and that worked flawlessly with the thinkpad

 

Thank you all for this conversation - it's why I posted originally.

Hamproof - you misunderstood slightly. I HADN'T done anything to the T61. I had done the MAC filtering almost 3 years ago when I initially set up the router with my Panasonic (Toughbook W2 - a lovely machine, under 3 lb with optical drive and nice 12" screen. If I could get one with WSXGA+ and 3G RAM, I'd be back.) . -- By the way, what is BT?

Arkit3kt - the automatic connection comes from the Windows wireless configuration being set to automatically connect to a "preferred network." That's how my Panasonic has been working for years. In my various experiments on the Lenovo, I had sometimes set it that way, but I'd not intended that to be my temporary freeloading test network. I'm not sure how it happened - in normal operation, I rarely change that setting, and when I do it's a simple change; I'm not testing something else.

eyecon82 - see my first sentence for why I started a second thread. Can you change the title of an active thread once it's out there??

LaptopGuru - sorry, no retraction. The lousy Lenovo tech and his inept gatekeeper are guilty as charged of shabby treatment of a new customer. In hindsight I'd remove the whiff of flame. But in your later post, you are so right about all the wireless settings kicking you in the butt later "when you forget." Perhaps somewhere there is (or should be) a concise step-by-step checklist that can serve as an explanation and a reminder.

Renee - Hindsight is always 20/20. If you really knew that "the behavior from the beginning sounded like MAC filtering was on the router," then why didn't you mention that in your post instead of insulting me? Gee, you're so helpful, why don't you go work for Lenovo? Then you can be really smart and unhelpful to dozens of people per day and get PAID for it.

klutchrider - Thanks for mentioning the number of DHCP users - I did wonder whether there was a setting that limited the router to one user at a time. But my max number of DHCP users is 50. Maybe I should reduce that ... but then I'll have trouble when I get my 51st laptop! But seriously, thanks. Now I'll go Google what DHCP means. As alacrityathome said, wireless is so fun ...

vi3tscorpian and eyecon82 - now you're scaring me. Which version of the Intel AGN driver worked, and which didn't?

Again, thank you for your suggestions.

 

BT means Bluetooth.

 

to The OP: In all fairness to the ppl you tried slamming in your post, you weren't exactly constructive in your other post not especially when the title is "My first and last lenovo in 5 hrs". How do you expect anyone to help you when the whole point of your post was to declare never to buy Lenovo again (which is your own perogative, I could care less myself). Those ppl have been here helping others long before you and if they're 'unhelpful' maybe its because they felt you only wanted to vent and not seeking help?

As for your wireless/router issue you were having, I've seen numerous postings with similar problems from users asking for help on the Networking subforum. They don't go slamming anyone and cope attitude rather they state their problem and ask for input and suggestions. Also another reason why its hard to help on wireless issues is there are so many variables involved which would not be apparent unless the person helping is right there with the machine in front of them.

Too often I see ppl asking for help on the forums but they don't provide all the necessary info. We're not psychics, we don't know the exact circumstances, your setup, your knowledge level - only you know all that. So next time don't be so harsh and ppl might just be a bit more helpful.

 

ej,

I feel slighted! No comments for me?

Alacrity

 

ej .. I did alluded to MAC filtering though not as a cause but rather cure to your woes by disabling security then enabling it via MAC filtering. I think I can claim credit *shameless*

Pasted from your other thread:
***********************************************
I'm not saying your specific TP is not a dud, but like another poster says, try it with another router, or same router with different encryption. Heck, if you want, try it unsecured, but do not broadcast the SSID and enable MAC filtering for extra security. If all of them work except for when you enable security, I hate to say this, but it sounds like user error.
***********************************************

Btw, perhaps my T61p on Vista Home w/ the upgraded a/b/g/n card is different from your T61.

When I was at a relative's house, once he turn on the security and unbroadcast SSID, I did have to *configure* my wifi settings. I even have to select the correct encryption type, and then either enter the password in Ascii or Hex on the T61p. I believe that was under WEP. But later we switched to WPA-?? and there's no option for ascii/hex.

It is just semantics I suppose. Not configuring anything would mean, to me at least, would be turn on the T61p and then have it discover the available wifi signals and double click. And in my case, that's not possible IF security was enabled on the router.

But this is my first TP notebook. And I'm very happy I made the purchase.

 

Alacrity - I didn't forget you! I quoted you about it all being fun! You read my mind there ...

Morphy, I didn't do what you're accusing me of. I didn't "slam" anyone on this forum - the ONLY one I gave back to was Renee, who was insulting and mistaken. In fact, I've specifically thanked the people here and addressed everyone's comments - if they took the time to reply, they deserve recognition and appreciation from me.

If you read ALL of my posts (including the prior thread, which I took pains to refer to here, and vice versa, intending to be constructive), you'll understand what I was getting at. If I'd intended to ask for networking help, I'd have posted there. I was telling a Lenovo story - there are other tech support tales on this forum, as I saw when I was reading it carefully in December before I ordered mine. The post on this forum had so many networking details in it because I felt I should post my detailed experience for the help of others.

I did search on wireless-related issues and didn't find what I was looking for. Also, at the time I didn't feel I had enough information for others to begin with, so I didn't ask that sort of question - something you pointed out too.

Hamproof - you're right, that post contains the core of the issue. If I'd read it from a slightly different angle, the act of disabling ALL my security would have uncovered it. 250 points to you (as they say in experts-exchange)! I only hope that other people with similar problems can find this page and benefit from it. Here's something for the search engines: WIRELESS WON'T WORK? CAN'T CONNECT TO WIRELESS? CHECK MAC FILTERING!

 

So is this still your last Lenovo? (And LinkSys router)?

Just curious...

 

Renee - Hindsight is always 20/20. If you really knew that "the behavior from the beginning sounded like MAC filtering was on the router," then why didn't you mention that in your post instead of insulting me? Gee, you're so helpful, why don't you go work for Lenovo? Then you can be really smart and unhelpful to dozens of people per day and get PAID for it.

LMAO! So true.

 

"Renee - Hindsight is always 20/20. If you really knew that "the behavior from the beginning sounded like MAC filtering was on the router," then why didn't you mention that in your post instead of insulting me? Gee, you're so helpful, why don't you go work for Lenovo? Then you can be really smart and unhelpful to dozens of people per day and get PAID for it."

Had you been responsible in your post, I may have considered it. Your choice was to make other people wrong for your own lack of knowledge as you did in this post. You externalized and were not responsible. I am happy to help people who show some sensitivity. For those that want to ventilate and make others wrong, well, you reap what you sew.

"WIRELESS WON'T WORK? CAN'T CONNECT TO WIRELESS? CHECK MAC FILTERING!"

In your case it was -

""WIRELESS WON'T WORK?"

a.) Ask for new card.
b.) Blame Lenovo
c.) Threaten to send computer back.
d.) Post two l-o-n-g threads.


I hope this response answered your second question at least.

 

L-Guru: Naw. Definitely not my last Linksys - the router's been perfect (knock wood) since I bought it in 2005. And for Lenovo - the next few years will tell. If I need their tech support again, I'll be sure to call in the morning.

By the way, the Panasonic Toughbook I bought in 2004 ... the CD drive had a problem last year. I called them up to find an authorized service center ... and they told me my machine was still under warranty! A 3-year warranty was standard. They paid overnight shipping both ways and I had it back in 3 days. I love this machine. Too bad it's memorybound.

Renee, you just don't get it, including the facts. RTFP. (I didn't ask for the new card. That was his idea, rather than spending time actually asking me questions about my problem.) As for showing some sensitivity, take your own advice - including that about understanding the problem before jumping to a conclusion.

I see that you've sniped at other people on this site. I also see you've helped alot of people. So you're not always an intrusive jerk. At the very least, realize that I didn't begin by insulting YOU. And if you can't empathize with someone who's frustrated, well ... I'm sorry for you.

And what's your problem with the length of the threads? Is space here rationed? Are you paying for it? Memory and electrons are cheap. People added to the thread with helpful responses, for which I'm grateful. I added information with the intent of helping others. That objection, in this context, makes no sense whatever. If you're bored, get the heck out of here. Nobody's forcing you to read it.

Too bad that smart people can't use their knowledge to be graceful towards others, rather than sniping at them.

 

I get frustrated and I contain it. I don't hold other people responsible for what I don't know and there is an abundance of what I don't know.