My horrible Lenovo experience and why I will never purchase from Lenovo again (long)

Maybe it’s just my bad luck when I buy things but my experience with Lenovo has been horrible and I wanted to share my experience with you all.

After months of trolling on the forums trying to find the right laptop for schoolwork (and some casual COD4), I had finally decided on a T61P. It took me months to save up for it as I am a struggling college student.

3/4: The ecoupon 10% off thinkpad promo was going on and I quickly took advantage of it and placed an order.

3/6: My order ships. I’m thinking sweet, that was fast compared to other reports I have read on this forum. I figured I must be lucky…. or so I thought.

3/14: My order arrives. I was so elated to finally receive the laptop after months of research and saving. First, I check for dead pixels and found none – great! At first I didn’t bother to check what brand lcd I received, figuring ignorance is bliss. But I noticed after a little usage that the viewing angles were pretty bad, so I check. Samsung, blah. Oh well I think to myself, I can live with it. I had received my order of 4GB ram (2x2GB) several days earlier from Newegg, so I popped them in.

3/15: I purchase COD4 and install it on my T61P. After a little bit of playing, the laptop would arbitrarily shutdown in game. I figure oh crap I must be plagued by the 2 dimm problem that many users have reported. So I take 1 dimm out, and sure enough I didn’t have any more issues with the laptop arbitrarily shutting down in game.

I did a little research on the forums and read that some T61P users cursed with the 2 dimm issue had their problems fixed when they sent in their laptop to the service depot to get their motherboard replaced. Since, I a big project due for school and needed the laptop to complete it, I decided to call Lenovo after I had finished.

3/21: I call Lenovo and told a technician about the issue and asked if I could get the motherboard replaced. He agreed and authorized a DHL box to be sent to my house so the laptop could be sent in for repair.

3/23: I go on vacation for spring break.

3/28: I come back from vacation. When I return, my parents had received the DHL box.

4/1 or 4/2: I send in the laptop for repair.

4/9: I get a call from Bruce, a Lenovo technician, telling me the motherboard and keyboard are damaged due to a “foreign substance spillage.” I’m thinking what the hell!? The keyboard was in perfect working order when I sent it in. And I’m also thinking how in the hell was the motherboard damaged due to a “foreign substance spillage” when the problem I was trying to get fixed in the first place was a well documented issue. Since the T61P was my first laptop purchase, I literally babied it. I never drank or ate near it, fearing I would get it all dirty. Even when I installed and uninstalled the ram, I went as far as to wear latex gloves so I wouldn’t get my greasy fingerprints on the inside. Bruce tells me since I opened my repair ticket within the 21 day return period, I could get it exchanged and I would have to call the returns department in order to do so; otherwise, I would have to pay $750 to get the motherboard replaced.

After hanging up with Bruce, I call the returns department. After speaking with someone in the department, he informs me that he couldn’t handle the case and he would have to send the case over to the over 21 day returns department because IIRC the date is not based from when the ticket is sent in but when the box ships to the depot. I’m thinking to myself whatever, I need to get this issues fixed because I need the laptop back for schoolwork. He tells me I should hear a reply from the over 21 days return department that day or the next.

4/10: I receive a call in the morning from Bruce asking me if I had called the returns department. I told him I had found it strange the returns department had not contacted him yet. So after hanging up with Bruce, I again call the returns team. By now I’m getting pretty frustrated and when a representative answers the phone, I ask to speak to a supervisor. After the rep tries to handle me himself, so I give him a shot. After giving him my order number, he tells me that the 21 days returned department had denied my request for an exchange and that I would have to send it in to the depot for repair… I’m thinking JFC is Lenovo that incompetent!? I just had the laptop sent in! At this point I had had it and I demanded to speak to a supervisor immediately and was finally transferred to one.

When the supervisor answers the phone, I explain to him my situation and he says he will check on my case and puts me on hold. After a couple minutes, he returns and tells me their systems or something wasn’t updated (I didn’t pay attention to the exact reason why I was told to send in my laptop when I already had since I was about to blow a blood vessel in my brain) but I didn’t care at this point because I finally got a hold of a supervisor and figured the situation would be resolved (not). The supervisor tells me he would inquire further as to the status of my case and he could call me back or put me on hold again while he checks on the status. I opt for the latter so he puts me on hold again. After about 5 minutes on hold he returns and he tells me that due to the technician’s diagnosis as to why the computer wasn’t functioning properly – “foreign substance spillage” – the returns department couldn’t authorize an exchange because according to Lenovo it was my fault and if I wanted to get it fixed I would have to shell out $750! Well I told the supervisor this was unacceptable so he gives me one more option, and that was to file my case with the customer arbitration department otherwise I would need to pay $750 to get the motherboard replaced. I naturally choose the second option and he tells me that customer arbitration will contact me within the next day or so.

And that is where I’m at now: waiting for customer arbitration to contact me. But after going through all this, I honestly feel like there is no hope as to even getting my motherboard exchanged under warranty (I don’t even see a point in having a 3yr depot warranty anymore), let alone the whole laptop. The only reason I can think of as to why there was “foreign substance spillage” was that someone at Lenovo tech fumbled and spilled something on the motherboard and is trying to blame it on me. And it also dawned on me today, even if I had spilled something on the keyboard, the T61P has a spill proof keyboard! Now that I look back, I should of avoided Lenovo completely and went with an HP or Dell. I can’t believe this is happening to me. I really can’t afford the trouble this is all causing me time wise and I fear soon to be money wise.

To be continued….



EDIT: I apologize if my threads are so verbose. My dad is a lawyer and this is how I learned to communicate by expressing all the details I can.

EDIT: Please check out this thread I started on the Lenovo forums:

http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=T_Series_Thinkpads&thread.id=4954

There are things I address that I didn't post here and I don't want to keep reposting stuff on this forum if people can see it on the Lenovo forums.

EDIT: No point in checking the official Lenovo forums, it seems they are shutting me down by changing the title and deleting my posts.

EDIT: The mods on the official Lenovo forums have locked my thread, in order to prevent me from posting and deleted my a direct reply to Hellbore's post they left on the thread.

EDIT: Thread on the official forums has been reopened. Finally we can get down to the real issue.

 

Aw man, I'm sorry to hear that you went through something like that. This story is absolutely horrible but no surprising. I've read/heard stories like this about Lenovo since I started researching them. These types of things aren't exclusive to Lenovo, unfortunately. Just stick with it to the end. Sometimes, something positive happens just when you've lost all hope.

 

lenovo is bad,ibm was good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCr9oKZVWtM

 

I have to agree that their tech support is often inept and will prefer to make you take the pay way out rather than actually diagnose the situation over the phone. That sure does suck!

 

Damm that sucks. I have had nothing but good experince with Lenovo

 

omph,

I first read your post on Lenovo's forum:

http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=T_Series_Thinkpads&thread.id=4954

Did you use the same thread title as you did here? I'm wondering because the way it was changed or better manipulated by the moderator is ridiculous. I felt the need to "step in" and leave a comment.

 

Following this person on every forum they visit to share their experience is simply not classy. They are trying to share their own experience to see if anyone can provide advice or help. I am not saying they are not lying, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. Currently, I am going through a similar experience with Lenovo technical support, and if you were being made to pay for something that should be covered under warranty, I am sure you would be here posting about it too. Please try not to revert to name calling.

 

uh...what is your problem? don't you have something better to do with your time?

 

Completely out of context with what was said. Internet terrorism has nothing to do with this post.

No threats were made that I saw, nor were any demands made, in fact, the overall tone of the piece ended in resignation. There is nothing wrong with "covering all bases", people do it all the time to increase the chances of responses.

Thanks for your stunning and detailed input.

 

Kudos to tallshorty and proxima_centauri. 100% agree.

 

Whether he posted it on every board on the planet or just this one, it doesn't diminish what he's gone through. I don't think he went through all the trouble of making up this story, nor do I think he's trying to ruin Lenovo. I think he's merely sharing his experience with the many who are interested in purchasing, or have already purchased, a Lenovo laptop.

 

Man i feel bad for you. A starving college student getting ripped off. I had the same thought as you about the whole spilled liquid bit. The tech looking at it must have spilled something on it. It is ironic or tragic, not sure which one when you don't eat anything near it but the tech spills his drink on it. I have read so many stories about their support and poor experiences. If they don't want to ruin their rep, they need to handle each of these cases with care. Obviously you can't make everybody happy and not everybody is telling the truth, but I have read more than one honest person getting punked by them. I myself am really frustrated with them. I have been waiting at least a good month to by a T61p, but right now they are having the 2 DIMM memory issue which has gone one for several months. It is just gambling whether you will get a machine with the problem and the depot repair, up to this point, doesn't know the problem exists or how to fix it.

I don't know what they are doing. I am still concerned about spending my money with them. I love the Thinkpad and the design, but customer service is a large part of the equation as well.

If they do say you have to pay $750 or something ridiculous, maybe you can get it back and buy a new motherboard on ebay. I have seen them selling on there for I think a couple hundred dollars. Maybe do the swap yourself?

 

Your post contains a lot of the same thoughts/concerns that I have about buying a Thinkpad from Lenovo. When the line was still owned by IBM, I heard nothing about raves and great reviews. Honestly, I have read post after post just like this one. It really drives me crazy. I believe that Lenovo has done a lot to damage their reputation, but it will take a lot more for customers to lose all confidence in them.

With all that said, I still have not decided to look elsewhere. I'm still very interested in the whole Thinkpad line. I, like you, am holding out for a little while since I can afford to do so.

 

I have shopped and shopped and shopped. I could probably recite to you any specs from any popular laptop today, on demand

I am happy overall with the pros and cons with the Thinkpad and have pretty much settled for it but the 2 DIMM issue and the customer service should be a major concern for all. People can talk all they want about how forums are a place where people vent and list their problems and how there are all these happy people blah blah blah. The facts are there are a lot of people with legit problems, who seem reasonable, and are not getting help from Lenovo. I think Lenovo has bitten off more than they can chew. They opened up the Thinkpads to everybody, not just corporate customers and now they can't keep up.

When IBM had it, its not like there were no problems at all. The T4x series had case flex issues that fried MOBOs and there were GPU issues as well, but the difference was that IBM handled these problems well. People could call and know that their issues were being handled by a competent person. First and foremost they need to become more flexible and get better phone operators. Second, they need to outsource their Depot repair to a better place, even if it costs a little more. I would gladly pay a little more for a warranty, if I knew with a high degree of confidence that I would get good service. There are reports of people getting machines back with the same problems as when sent in, more problems created, Laptop not even booting up, and loose parts inside the machine and missing screws. This is an UNACCEPTABLE level of service and should almost never happen, especially for a top end Business grade machine used by people for mission critical work. Heck, NASA uses Thinkpads.

If I had to rely on it for mission critical work and I had the 2 DIMM issue, I don't know what I would do. Luckily like you I am using it for personal use. I consider myself a very patient person and have been told by others that I have patience of a saint, but even my patience is wearing very thin...

Sorry everybody, but I am really irritated and have been waiting to get my laptop for months now....

 

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences however, like some have already said, there is bad happenings at every manufacture (Dell, HP, etc.) as well. All I know is if you keep pushing for what you want, you will eventually get it. YOU are the customer here, and you have a valid case. Lenovo will make it right with you (hopefully). I have dealt with HP customer service / support, and Lenovo customer service, and both were very helpful, and had no problems with ether.
Good luck on getting your issues resolved in a timely manner.

 

I hear you and agree with you. We are definitely feeling a lot of the same frustrations. We'll see if they rectify the problems.

 

Just to set the record straight, the reason I posted in this forum and the Lenovo forum is that not everyone reads both forums and I wanted to share my experience with everybody (as some do appreciate, I would hope) because I have learned a lot from reading other people's experiences. Isn't that what the forums is for, to share opinions and user experiences? I have even read MonsterMaxx's posts about Lenovo and still decided to purchase from them, hoping I would be one of the majority of the satisfied T61P owners.

I am by no means an "internet terrorist". I'm not even trying to convince others not to buy Lenovo. That is the reason why the title reads " My horrible Lenovo experience and why I will never purchase from Lenovo again (long)" not, "My horrible Lenovo experience and why you should never purchase from Lenovo again (long)." No where in the post did I even offer advice to others that were thinking about purchasing from Lenovo.

I am not vindictive person, as you probably think I am aiiee judging from your post. I am a firm believer in karma. That is why in the beginning of the post I even say its just my bad luck. Maybe I did something wrong in my past life to warrant this situation /shrug. I don't know what you still think (and don't care frankly speaking), but I stand by my name which you probably don't know means, "Om Mani Padme Hum" - Hail the jewel in the lotus (and if you don't know what that means, you might want to do a lil research if you care to)

Anyways, I just wanted to make sure you and others understand my intentions when I made this post.

 

Yes Bierholen, they did edit the title of my original post. This is the reason according to Lenovo:

Moderator message: Please pay attention to the rules of this community and adhere to them, particulary... Inflammatory post or thread titles are unacceptable and may be moderated.

I guess the last part of my title "...why I would never purchase from Lenovo again.." could be construed as inflammatory, and looking at it now I don't blame them for editing that part out. But to edit out the "horrible" and change the title to just "My T61P experience" is just plain, as you stated, "ridiculous" and hardly represents the tone of my post. I assume I can't even use a simple adjective to describe my experience if it casts a negative light on Lenovo.

Btw, is there a way for me to edit my original post, so that if I post an update it will continue on from where I left off?

 

Oh, c'mon now, "Lenovo" (ie Mark, Tim, etc) had nothing to do with that. You skirted too close to one of the forum rules and got spanked for it by one of the forum moderators whose name is plainly listed under the reason. As near as I can tell from the edit history, he didn't edit out a single word of your narrative.

 

omph, I hope you get your issues resolved.

I heard a similar story from someone. In the other story they said their laptop arrived DOA so they sent it back to Lenovo for repair. Then they were told that their machine was opened and tampered with before it was sent to Lenovo. I'm not sure where their story went but I know you are not alone.

It's horrible that it seems we cannot trust the warranty and repair people. When we send out laptop in we should be able to have confidence that it will be fixed. I wish there were a way to create a system where incidents like this could not happen.

I know it's impractical but they should do something like tape the "fixing" of your laptop and let the customer watch it all the way through

When something goes wrong like this I think it's the company who needs to step up and make everything right. I don't like the appearance that Lenovo is trying to blame their customers.

 

You might want to reread my post.

Edit: So Nonny, I just checked out the thread my thread on the lenovo forums

http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=T_Series_Thinkpads&thread.id=4954

and just found out you were a mod. Why didn't you say you at least state you were a mod on the lenovo forums? It casts your post in a different light. I would appreciate a reply to my question on the lenovo forums.

I asked:

"Please explain to me how "horrible" is inflammatory. Would the word "unsatisfactory" (as Bierholen suggested above) be a better choice? If you have a better adjective in mind, please advice me as I would like the title of my thread to at least reflect my "unsatisfactory" experience thus far."

I'm trying to be civil and courteous. It would be nice to get a reply from a mod, if not you Nonny maybe somebody else. All you did was post a silly reply to Hellbore's post and my questions were ignored.

 

I'm not gonna bother debating who lied or whatnot but this story has raised some interesting but disturbing questions.

We know that Lenovo subcontracts for their warranty service providers. And some may differ by geographic location.
The first thing I question when I read something like this is what would be the depot's motivation to say that the laptop suffered damage which the owner stated never occured in the first place?

It would have to be something that would profit the depot. If they had serviced the warranty, they'd be following the contract from Lenovo. But if there's service done not covered by warranty, the customer covers the costs. So its not beyond reason to think that there exists some motivation by unscrupulous techs to bilk customers.
I'm not categorically stating that's the case here but its definitely a possibility.

What does the OP stand to gain by misrepresenting his situation? I've seen numerous posts from ppl before who seem to have some sort of twisted vendetta against a certain company or individual and its very easy to spot them but I don't think that's the case here.

The last thing we as customers expect when we send something in to be fixed is to be treated like a criminal ("you lied about not mentioning the extra damage in order to get a free repair") and be taken to the cleaners by dishonest companies. I realise that they're subcontractors all the same but they're still Lenovo's responsibility. If anything it should be unsettling for anyone sending in their laptop to the depot.

Also I should add many of these service providers service multiple contracts from several companies not just one. I know one in my neighbourhood that services warranties from Apple, HP, Toshiba including Lenovo. So if lets say that company is being dishonest I'd suspect they're doing the same to other customers not just Lenovo.

 

UPDATE:

4/10 (later on that day): Trying to do a little investigation on my own, I leave a message with Bruce to call me back because he had already stepped out of the office.

4/11: I get a call from Bruce and I ask him specifically what the nature of this “foreign substance” is and he says the technicians were unable to determine what it was. And I’m thinking they don’t even know what the “foreign substance” is? Fine.

Then, I ask where is the damage? He states on the bottom right hand side of the keyboard and motherboard. I ask him to be more specific. He states the same thing... I said I want to know exactly where the “damage” is (the tone of my voice has changed to a bit angry at this point). He says underneath the keys where the motherboard is. And I’m thinking how is that possible. He goes on to state the damaged parts would have to be replaced because of the “foreign spill damage”. He goes on further to add (here’s the real kicker) because I don’t have the Accidental Damage Protection this type of thing is not covered….. I’m thinking oh my god (I admit I blew a cap, and the tone of my voice is becoming increasingly more angy).

(This part of the conversation gets a little circular) I reiterate the fact I just sent the laptop in to fix a well documented issue. I state the computer was in perfect working order when I sent it in, save the 2 dimm issue. I decide to probe further. I first start with the keyboard because he stated before that it was damaged. I ask how is the keyboard not functioning properly. He says there was “spill damage”. I ask him again what part exactly of the keyboard is not working? He just repeats again the technicians found “foreign spill damage”. Then I said that your telling me there was damage and you can’t even tell me as to what is not functioning properly with the keyboard (I don’t understand this, they say there was damage to the keyboard but only my motherboard needs to be replaced). He can't.

Ok now time for the motherboard. I then ask him what is wrong with the motherboard. He says there is foreign spill damage. I then ask him how does it pertain to the 2 dimm situation. He just replies the technicians found spillage on the motherboard and that it would have to be replaced and of course my depot warranty doesn’t cover this. The computer was working fine when I sent it in so I decide to investigate issue of whether the system was functioning as a whole. I then ask him simply, does the computer power on. He says the technicians run a complete diagnostics when the laptops come into the depot. He still didn’t answer my original question, so I ask him again but does the computer power on? He repeats again the techs run a full diagnostics on it and since they found “spill damage” they took apart the whole computer (sigh) to find the “damage” (my tone is very irate at this point, he’s trying to be courteous though for the record). I respond, your telling me that the technicians run a full diagnostics and you can’t even tell me if the system powers on. He can’t. I’m thinking JFC this is getting no where.

I then ask how does the “spill” affect the function of the motherboard, thinking that maybe if I ask a different question I would get some type of decent response (like my questions weren’t specific enough… . He repeats again to me the technician reported that there was spill damage. He still hasn’t even answered my question.

I say that your technicians run a full diagnostics and you can’t even tell me what is exactly wrong or how is the computer not functioning properly? He can’t. I then say how is that a full diagnosis if you can’t even tell me what specifically is not function properly with the computer (at this point I’m just hoping the system at least works because I fear I’m truly am going to be screwed, and I just want the laptop to work even if its with 1 dimm now if the situation is not resolved!). I then ask him why does the motherboard needs to be replaced if you can’t even tell me how the motherboard has been affected. He replies that corrosion might develop later down the road due to the “spill damage” and another issue might come up that would cause me to send the laptop in for service I would have to send the laptop in again for repair (your kidding me, I’m thinking)

Bruce naturally wants to hang up now at this point. He says that is all the information he has and he wasn’t the technician that handled it… he states he’s in billing (up to this point I thought he was the technician that handled my case…geez...). He wants to get off the phone so he says it’s probably best if I let Customer Arbitration handle it and that I’m asking the same questions (during the conversation, I did repeats of the same questions at times because I was in shock at the replies I received and pissed) and that if I wanted he would email me pics of the “spill damage”. I naturally replied yes. (I will post them as soon as I get them)

I did ask him if Customer Arbitration doesn’t offer me a favorable settlement could I get the computer back as is now without the depot having to hold on to it unless I pay for repairs (hoping, please give me back a functioning computer). He said yes. At this point, I give up and say fine I’ll just let Customer Arbitration handle it.

Now, I’m just waiting for Customer Arbitration to “handle” me…. now that I got that out of me system I can go back to studying.


EDIT: grammar/spelling

EDIT: Even though I forgot to mention it before, I do appreciate all those that posted and wished me luck with the situation.

 

Tht's truly amazing. I'd like to know what sort of "diagnostic" they run before opening up the system that can immediately identify a "spill damage".

This really stinks to high hell. I hate to jump to conclusions but if this happened to me I'd be so mad. They took one look at your record, sees no accidental coverage, invent a "spill damage" problem ( how convenient too ). I bet they made a lot of $$ that way. Brutal.

Can you post the name of this depot and the city you're in?
If possible I'm hoping when and if I have to send my lappie in that'll be one company to avoid in the future. I can't think of anything else a customer can do to protect themselves from this. Taking pics before sending them in maybe but that's not conclusive enough I think.

 

Yah, I'm pretty mad but more sad then anything. This is my first laptop purchase and it cost me and arm and a leg. I posted my situation when I purchased this laptop in a reply to Hellbore's post on the lenovo forum, you can check it out if you want, don't feel like reposting it here as I'm not trying plea for sympathy on the forums.

I have bad luck sometimes with purchases before - I more often then not get defective items with major purchases. I even stated in the first line of my original post, "Maybe its just my bad luck...". I rolled the dice with the T61P I admit, even after reading other unsatisfactory experiences from others. But I thought maybe this time it won't happen to me; but I end up getting both issues I was trying to avoid: Samsung screen, 2 dimm issue.

And now I have this depot issue to deal with.. totally unexpected. My gut feeling is telling me the laptop is prolly all scuffed and everything. When I sent it in, it was pristine condition, we will see (I even left a note in the laptop to please be gentle with it).

Now that I'm calm now, I can think more clearly. Basically in the end I have only myself to blame because I knew the possible outcomes, so I can't claim ignorance. Oh well, all I can do now is hope for the best and be Zen... (I don't know if anyone understand what I'm saying at this point.....)

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. The laptop was sent to Atlanta, Georgia; that is as much as I know.

 

If the mods would edit my title to

"My nightmare experience with a T61P and Lenovo service, a chilling tale......(long)"

I would appreciate it. I do feel the last part of the title is stating something I would do in the future IF lenovo doesn't rectify the issue. I have little hope though. We will see....

 

Lenovo should fire that thin-skinned employee who could not handle criticism tsk tsk

They must get their act together

Wish ya best!

 

I don't know, maybe this is a thought the wrong tack, but why don't you maybe try a different approach. Say your product was defective from the biggining, and you sent it back as requested, why not assume that the damage was caused by Lenove shipping you a defective product. It is quite possabile that final assembly,(or who knows where), was responsible the forigen substance, not you.

Futhurmore, again do not quote me here, (do your own reashearch), but I believe you are entitiled to have a defect free product delievered at the time of purchase or your sales contract is not valid. So, if you turn this around and accuse Lenove of selling you a new product with a defect, this is quite different than they sold you a new product and you caused a defect. What is the difference, well, the big difference is you have recourse other than what lenovo is telling you. for instance, if you paid by credit card, charge it back. Tell your bank that you were shipped a defective product and they accepted it back but are giving you a run around to ship you another one and are trying to take advantage of your niativity in this matter and you are worn out and just no longet want it. At the least, it will change lenovo's percpective on how they are handleing you.

Good luck

 

This could unfortunately happen with any brand you pick. I would refrain the temptation to generalize here although I can understand the frustration. These cases happen and are often isolated extreme cases caused by a snow balled effect of many unfortunate events. If you indeed were not the cause of that "spill damage", you ended up with a very bad customer depot. I initially thought as Rob, that this spill could have been there from the time they initially manufactured it. It's plausible... but now, the problem you face is to prove it.

This kind of horror stories is why I often do things that initially sound paranoid such as taking photos of the unit before putting it in the shipping box, just to make sure I got proof of the shipping state... But in that story, I would have had to take it apart and take shots of the interior as well! You cannot possibly ask that from a customer.

The other point to make out of this is, whatever happens, try to find a local depot in your city and take the unit with you in person to a tech. You can thus see him face to face... and make it less likely he could be tempted to act dishonest.

My last advice to omph would be to write a recommended letter and send it to Lenovo [put your country here], i.e., at the top most of the hierarchy as much as possible. Do not waste too much further time going back and forth with the bottom line techs. You need to move up the hierarchy and talk to key people to let them know you are serious. Sadly, it always ends up being a pain for the customer that has to defend himself. My experience tells me that most of the time, moving up to the main company office gives good results. The service shop is often just a third-party that has no control and can only repair if they are paid by the main company on top.

Your best defence is to keep holding on your version of the facts and not give them any slack. If all fails, go to court. You can thus inform them officially in your letter than if the issue is not properly handled by Lenovo, that you will take legal recourses.

At all times __remain polite and civilised__. I understand the frustration, but showing it to them can only make it more difficult.

Good luck

 

Can the moderator of this forum grant omph's wish and update the title?

 

That is an absolutely unacceptable response from Lenovo. Speak with the supervisor again if you have to and if things don't get better, goto the Better Business Bureau. "Foreign Substance"? Seems to me someone form the depot screwed up and is conveniently putting it on you. Makes me nervous in case something screws up in my laptop.

Edit: - Do keep us updated.

 

Because it wasn't relevant. Here, I'm just another schmuck putting in my two cents worth.

I can't answer that. The original title just made me go "Tsk" and think "drama queen", but it apparently flipped a different switch in the other mod who will have to be the one to answer you. I don't believe he reads NBR. (One hint - many of the mod team there have been together for years on another forum, and we very seldom overrule one another.)

Well, now there's an incentive to get me to do anything. I thought you said you were trying to be courteous?

 

Omph, sorry to hear you're caught in costumer service hell. I just got a R61 for $681.00 out the door and if they told me I needed a $750.00 MB I'd be pissed too.

If I was in your situation with no resolution in sight, I'd tell them to return my laptop without repairing, and take it to a reputable computer repair center for inspection with the express purpose of documenting the details of the 'spill'. Then you'd have some ammunition down the road with arbitration or whatever.

As for you're request to change the thread title, do it yourself. Go to your original post ->edit ->go advanced.

Cheers

 

Thanks Jassy. I asked in post #19 at the bottom if anyone knew how to change the title but no one responded, so I just assumed I had to ask the mods to do it. I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to being an OP of a thread. I usually don't start them, and if I do I haven't found the reason to change the title except this one.


EDIT: Jassy, I tried to change the thread per you instructions but only the title of my post within this thread was changed and not the title that is used in the list of titles.

 

According to Lenovo I'm over the 21 days return policy because if you see in my original post, its not the day you open up the ticket but when the item ships.....

I just did what some others on the forum I have read have done with success: Call Lenovo and try to get the motherboard exchange.... The laptop was perfectly fine except the two dimm issue so the only thing I felt Lenovo should be responsible for is the part that handles this issue: the motherboard.

 

I agree. That is why I am changing the title of the post to reflect my situation better. I also stated in another post that I did get a little over exited and the last couple statements could be framed in a better manner... I will fix it.

Yup, its my word against theirs. And since I didn't take any pictures "inside" the laptop (and I still don't know where exactly). I really have nothing but my word. I honestly didn't feel the need to take pictures because others have gotten their matter resolved by sending the laptop in the same manner.

When these cases happen, "my word against yours (company) that I didn't cause the issue (foreign substance spillage in my case)", the customer I feel is usually on the shorthand of the stick.

I will take legal recourse if this situation is not properly handled. My dad is a lawyer and I'm sure he will help me, but I don't want to bother him with this problem at the moment as he will say, " you shouldn't have gotten such an expensive laptop in the first place." (not like he already hasn't stated this repeatedly)

Yes I blew a gasket on the phone a couple times. But the answers were so incredulous, my emotions flared. I think many would in this circumstance. But I am very calm and collected now.

Thanks I'll need the luck.....

 

That is fine. I understand.

I seriously laughed when I read the "drama queen" part. After all that has happened to me do you really think I'm a drama queen still? I'm flat broke, got no laptop for school, and have no resolution to this matter in sight at the moment.

He doesn't have to read NBR. The questions that were in quotes in the post above were stated in my OP in the Lenovo forums. My title was changed overnight to "My T61P experience".

http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/...&thread.id=4954&view=by_date_ascending&page=1


On the third post on that thread I state:

"Please explain to me how "horrible" is inflammatory. Would the word "unsatisfactory" (as Bierholen suggested above) be a better choice? If you have a better adjective in mind, please advice me as I would like the title of my thread to at least reflect my "unsatisfactory" experience thus far."


In the 15th post I ask:

" To the moderators: I'm still waiting for a reply to my questions about what adjective I can use to describe this experience if the word "horrrible" is considered inflammatory. The title was changed rather quickly, why can't my question be answered with the same diligence."


In the 18th post I ask:

"Is this title acceptable? Or is it too inflammatory?

"My nightmare experience with a T61P and Lenovo service, a chilling tale......(long)"


So the mod not reading NBR is not the issue because my questions to the title were all posted on the Lenovo forums and I'm still waiting for a reply. I just want due diligence from the mods, is that too much to ask?

Should I also post on forums.thinkpad.com in order to get a response? I didn't feel the need to spam my story on 3 forums. The post on the lenovo forum was for the record. The post on this forum was to share my experience.

In all due respect, I am trying to be courteous. But the tone of my post was serious and I had questions for the mod that remained unanswered, and still remain to be answered at this point in time. When I saw your post:

"Hey now, I'm standing right here! Wink" - directed to Hellbore

and the mod symbol next to it, I was a bit surprised and a bit frustrated. That was the only post by a mod thus far on my thread......and it wasn't even related to OP.

If the mod teams have been together for years, and I'm assuming you have been a mod for quite some time (please correct me if I'm wrong), I figure you or another mods would communicate serious issues with each other. I'm assuming my questions weren't serious enough for mods to communicate and respond. I just wanted an answer to my simple questions.

You can't blame me at this point for feeling how Bierholen describes in the second post on that thread:

" Please be fair and change it in a way that people understand from the title what this thread is about. That's what titles are for... As it stands now, it sounds like omph's post is just about the product he purchased. It's really about his bad experience with Lenovo's service though and therefore, the new title is misleading and not very appealing to anyone to read.

As this may have been intentional to not draw any attention to omph's bad experience, I believe that a good company should pay attention to their customer's complaints and furthermore, should be willing to admit mistakes and not try to hide them. The title change of this tread smells a bit like the latter."

I don't know how I can be more civilized I could be in a situation like this.

EDIT:Made it more readable.

 

All right, if you cannot seem to get head-way with Lenovo, you need to make a huge complaint to the credit card company that you used to make the purchase with. Generally, AmEx is probably the best company to do this with, but you should try no matter which company you used. Usually, the cc companies have excellent chances of giving remedy to the situation - they are the ones who will go to bat for you and deal with all this customer service crap that every computer vendor tries to dole out (like this "poor you, you didn't purchase our ridiculously priced accidental damage protection plan"). You need to call your cc company if nothing else occurs.

If no luck there or with lenovo, you may be able to claim it through home owner's insurance (through a parent if you are an undergrad) as accidental damage - sometimes if you have an umbrella policy, it will cover damage or theft, which in your case, would reimburse you for your loss and you would be able to purchase your laptop from yet another crappy manufacturer. I am so sorry for your frustration - for the lies and the complete nonsense that they have told you and for the complete lack of straightforward answers that you have received.

 

omph,
I feel real bad for you man(much sympathies) and at the same time this really scares me. I am waiting to buy a T61p right now... maybe i should reconsider my decision. You seem to be very straight forward and too nice. I can't believe the mods of that forum are arguing with you about worthless things and are not providing you with any help. Since when are words like "horrible" bad? This is just stupid. You did have a horrible experience so you said horrible. If you had a good experience, I am sure you would have said "my great Lenovo experience".

Yes, all companies have stories like this but I feel there are some things that are different with Lenovo. For example, they won't let people return the machine for an exchange for a new machine even if the original one was defective and is within their return policy. They are charging everybody a 15% restocking fee or to send it to the depot.

I think I am going to start looking into Dell's stuff as well. People want to knock Dell but take a look at the Dell board. There are people who had the graney screen problem and got 3, 4 or more replacements of the screen or even the whole machine. There return policy and service seems a lot more flexible.

I could very well see this problem happening to me. I am also thinking, well maybe something like this won't happen to me, it is just the minority and I might take a leap and go for it. I really want a Thinkpad, but if there is no customer service to back it up then what is the point? Every product can have problems, but I want to rest comfortably that things will get taken care of if I have the warranty. I will have to seriously think about this.

Like others have said, get in touch with progressively higher and higher levels at Lenovo. Make your statements brief and polite. I am sure your problem will get the attention of someone high up. I have heard of cases where some managers have directly handled a particular customer complaint and have pulled the machine from the lot and have given it special attention. This is how the whole 2 DIMM problem was found and investigated.

 

I agree with those saying dispute the credit card. If you currently do not have the product in your possession and you reported a defect, any defect, within the first week or so, they will refund it. And the best part is they will issue a temporary credit immediately. Lenove may put up a fight and delay it officially, but honestly you will probably win in the end. However, Lenove will most likely win your current course of action. They have decided it was abuse and you are trying to get them to change their mind. Flip it, make it lenovo's problem, instead of yours.

Just insist that you receive a defective product, they took it back but now are giving you one stall after another and you have lost confidence in them. The fact that they have the product in their possession is huge, do not accept it if they return it to you.

 

From there to here:

pressure points:

* The corporate executives
* The corporate counsel
* The corporate ombudsman
* The shareholders
* The web (your own website)
* The web (other websites)
* Journalists
* Magazines that have endorsed this product
* Other individuals who endorsed or recommended this product
* Consumer protection agencies: Better Business Bureau
* Consumer protection agencies: Other private organizations
* Consumer protection agencies: County-level mediators and investigators
* Consumer protection agencies: State-level regulators and investigators
* Consumer protection agencies: Federal
* Litigation: Sue them in small claims court
* Litigation: Sue them in a more formal court


publicly traded corporation, buy a share in the company. Buy a few more for your friends. Go to a company (shareholder's) meeting and protest at the meeting. You (and your shareholding friends) can circulate a letter of complaint. You can speak at the meeting. Send a before-the-meeting copy of your letter to the company's president (or to its Directors--you're a shareholder, so you can call the company and get contact info for the directors). Be careful about your wording. You don't want to say, "Pay me or I'll circulate this at your meeting" say something like, "I'm writing this note as a courtesy to let you know that I plan to circulate this memo at the shareholder's meeting. Please advise me of any procedures I am expected to follow (a) to circulate the letter to my fellow shareholders and (b) to speak on this matter at the meeting." That's not a threat, it's a request for information about your rights as a shareholder. Of course, the response might be to solve your problem before the meeting, but that's their decision, not something you demanded under threat .

# The web (your own website). Most companies don't like it when lots of prospective customers read bad things about how the company does business. If you do create a protest site, take care with your facts. If you make false claims about the company or its practices, you could get into a lot of trouble.

# The web (other websites). Do a google and you might find web pages with long lists of customer complaints. Add yours.

# Journalists. Several journalists write consumer protection articles. Some work for magazines, some for newspapers, some for television statements, and some are freelancers.


from http://www.badsoftware.com/alienwaresucks/

 

You can call Clark Howard, a consumer advocate in the Atlanta area who is sindicated in the US - you can also go the YouTube route.

I have heard numerous stories about people posting strong youtube videos in an effort to get attention, and for customers of cellular companies, some of the most abusive companies out there, this worked wonders. I would post in every forum out there, post videos, blogs, your money equals your time so for what you paid, it's time to really get cooking.

 

I also recommend contacting your CC company as well and try to get the charge disputed. Contact the BBB and file a formal complaint.

Also, even if you purchased the machine after reading people's bad experiences it does not put any blame on you. You should expect a working computer and if something goes wrong you should expect the warranty to handle it. It sounds like the depot service damaged your machine. I would be really mad if the same happened to me.

If anything Lenovo's poor depot service is fairly well known in forums and you have just added to the evidence.

What ever happened to "The customer is always right"? I'm assuming you are an honest person and did not cause the damage. It's stories like these that give Lenovo a bad name. I'm sure some potential purchaser will read your story and others and think twice about purchasing from Lenovo.

Keep pushing and don't give up. I hope the arbitrator helps you. It does not benefit Lenovo one bit to take this kind of stance so I think you have a good position.

 

Good luck to you omph...I hope you eventually get a working replacement, whether it's through arbitration or through your CC company, etc.

This story has gotten me kinda nervous about purchasing a new T400 in June...sure the features seem nice, but if their service is capable of doing that to even a few people then what's to prevent me from being one of them too? One of my friends did report getting pretty good service from Lenovo, but he paid extra for the 3 year accidental damage warranty as well...if I do end up buying a T400, I'm thinking that might well be a necessity.

In the meantime, I'm looking into the new Dell Latitude E series of ultraportables to see if they fit my requirements...like some others have said, many people knock Dell for bad quality, but their service is very nonchalant and will let you return things 2 or even 3 times until you get a proper resolution to the problem (several of my friends have done this with even small problems and basically got new laptops returned to them).

 

I had an experience similar in many respects to those of the original poster of this thread. I will never, ever consider another Lenovo product. Aside from an HP printer experience, my Lenovo experience has been the worst buying decision of my life. The company deserves to go to hell.

 

I agree with everything here. You'll definitely want to contact you CC company and the BBB.

 

A MUST READ: (very long....)

Thanks for all the support guys. I don't have time to respond to all of the new posts atm, but you won't believe this, it seem I cannot trust that the integrity of my post that I post on the official Lenovo forums will remain intact and unedited by the mods.

The mod, billbolton, edited out several of my posts, a few comments on the OP, and the new title I put in (and he didn't even respond to the legitimate questions that I asked in more than one post). I was too tired last night to post the relevant posts here because it was approximately 5AM for me after I finished posting on the official Lenovo forums (but looking back I should have, to maintain a proper record).

This is the last straw for me. Lenovo does not deserve my money. Even with Customer Arbitration still pending and even if the situation ends up in a favorable settlement for me, I'm going to have to recommend others not to purchase from Lenovo (I thought I would never have to say this). For the record, this is the first time I have ever stated this sentiment, even with all the "hell" I have been through. I now feel the title of this thread is appropriate.

I'm going to try to recall the posts that they edited out and retype them out to the best of my recollection (there might be some paraphrasing, but I will do my best to type it out literally word for word - thank god for my decent memory):

(These posts and events are in chronological order; any statements made after "//" are my own comments and thoughts)

________________________________________________________

Post #22 ( edited out by mods):

To the moderators:How come I am still waiting for a reply to my questions when it was so quick for you guys to change the title of my thread? Obviously there are mods on.

My OP was posted on 04-11-2008 10:10 PM

The title was reported to be changed, by another user at 04-11-2008 07:49 AM

A mod of the T-series Thinkpads forum posts on my thread at 04-11-2008 06:32 PM , but it was not way directed to the OP or my questions/concerns.

I'm just looking at the latest post column (see time stamp below), and there are clearly mods on that can respond.

04-11-2008 08:03 PM
by nonny

04-12-2008 04:49 AM
by carbon_unit

04-12-2008 06:46 PM
by tfflivemb2

It only took less then 4 hours for a mod to change my title, yet I have been waiting over a day, and still counting, for the mods to respond to my serious questions.

Are my questions not serious enough to warrant a response? Are posts such as "LCD Frame glue", "Help: I did not receive my T61 which has been delivered" (actually this one was rather important, but doesn't take away from the fact my questions/concerns have not been replied to), and "Is it wise to partition a 160GB drive on a Thinkpad T61 machine" more important than the rather serious nature of my questions and concerns that I have?

Please respond.

IIRC the post was timestamped around 04-12-2008 9:00 PM
​

______________________________________________________

Post #23 is a forum user's (Julie) reply to my post (I will copy it here so that my following post reads in context):

I am sorry for your situation, but please give the MODs a break.

They are volunteers, not Lenovo employees.

They are here to try to help with technical issues only. They do not get paid.

You will have to contact customer service or a Lenovo employee.

I hope you find resolution to your problem.

04-12-2008 10:09 PM​

________________________________________________________

Post #24 ( edited out by mods).

//I have to admit I was a little irritated at Julie's post backing up the mods that have yet even till this moment (see time stamp of this post) respond directly to my questions/concerns, but I replied in a civil, clear, and verbose manner as I only know how.

No offence, but judging from your post it does not seem like you understand the situation or read the entire thread (please correct me if I am wrong). Your post is rather ambiguous.

If you are referring to the title issue it is well within the mods' scope of responsibilities to address since it was a mod that changed the title in the first place!

I understand they are the police of the forums too, but the mods' scope covers dealing with what you refer to as "technical issues" on the forum and that includes titles of posts (you cannot debate this fact). And I am still waiting even at the time of this post (see time stamp below), for a mod to reply to my questions/concerns.

If you don't know the "technical issue" (i.e. title issue) I am referring to, please reread post #2 (which wasn't even written by me, and I could not have said it better myself), #5, and #11.

Lenovo customer csr/employees have nothing to do the with the forums.

Now, if the "technical issue" you are referring to is the laptop issue then I have been in contact with Lenovo csr/employees. Please reread post #1 and # 15 since because they clearly and directly depict my contact with Lenovo csr/employees.

I apologize if my post might sound defensive and verbose but I want to make things clear so other readers will clearly understand this situation.

"I hope you find resolution to your problem." - I appreciate your good will.

//can't remember time stamps anymore as its very late already
​

______________________________________________________

Post #25 ( edited out)

I found out that I can edit the title. I guess I have to try different titles till they find one appropriate but on the same hand clearly depicts the actual tone of the post.

I am changing the title to "My disturbing/vexing experience with T61P and Lenovo service"
​

________________________________________________________

Event: I change the title of my OP to the new one,"My disturbing/vexing experience with T61P and Lenovo service" and also include the new title on the bottom and IIRC a link to this forum.

________________________________________________________

Event: The new title title of the OP is edited and changed to "My Lenovo experience" and the title and link at the bottom of the OP is taken out too.

Message Edited by billbolton on 04-14-2008 12:30 AM

Moderator message: Do not attempt to edit the title of the message again. You have your chance to put your case, so stick to doing that instead of being argumentatitive about forum rules!​

______________________________________________________

//You will also notice that there is also another edit stamp from way before at the bottom of the OP - IIRC I posted the original title, "My horrible Lenovo experience and why I will never purchase from Lenovo again...(long)", on the bottom too and it was edited out.

Message Edited by billbolton on 04-11-2008 11:55 PM

Moderator message: Please pay attention to the rules of this community and adhere to them, particulary... Inflammatory post or thread titles are unacceptable and may be moderated.​

______________________________________________________

My final thoughts:

I find it amusing but disturbing that billbolton, the mod of my thread (I'm assuming he's the only one),...

(1) will respond to what he deems as an "inflammatory" title...

- I don't know why the words "disturbing" or "vexing" is inflammatory; the situation I'm going through is very "disturbing" and "vexing" (def: upsetting - Dictionary.com) unless your a masochist -

(2) edit out my post that clearly sets the facts straight to a user that defends mods...

(3) won't respond to my legitimate questions about the title (see previous posts) even though he clearly has viewed them (I'm positive that he read them at least since he stated in his edit, "You have your chance to put your case" - how would he know unless he read it?)...

(4) is hypocritical when it comes to the word "inflammatory" by leaving posts up such as post #3 by aiiee on the thread, which is complete accusatory with no evidence what so ever..

So what's the point of this post? To accuse Lenovo service techs of lying to avoid replacing a motherboard? Seems farfetched, especially when they've been doing this for others right along. What do you want omph? A vote of confidence from the forum members? A 'record' or 'documentation' of your mishap? Well my vote, given no evidence save for your testimony, is that you are lying. Have a nice day.​

While I also accuse Lenovo, I only make hypothetical statements (Post #1 (last paragraph):..only reason I can think..; key word is think), while his statements are framed definitively (.."given no evidence save for your testimony, is that you are lying"...) which is rather inflammatory IMHO


First, I believe I got shafted by Lenovo by sending me a tainted machine or some mishap occurred at the service depot, but now I got to deal with this ? - definitively getting shafted [/I]on the Lenovo official forums. This is honestly a joke to me. For all the reason above, this debacle is very shady and unjust. It seems like Lenovo is trying to bury bad press (note: I find it a little strange that the official Lenovo forums dont' show how many times a thread has been viewed.. I assume they are trying not to show what discussions are truly heated).

Post #2 on the official forums says it best (I bolded what I thought were the important parts):

Please be fair and change it in a way that people understand from the title what this thread is about. That's what titles are for... As it stands now, it sounds like omph's post is just about the product he purchased. It's really about his bad experience with Lenovo's service though and therefore, the new title is misleading and not very appealing to anyone to read.

As this may have been intentional to not draw any attention to omph's bad experience, I believe that a good company should pay attention to their customer's complaints and furthermore, should be willing to admit mistakes and not try to hide them. The title change of this tread smells a bit like the latter. It's sad enough that omph had to choose this way to release his frustrations.

Something like "My unsatisfying experience with Lenovo's customer service" would have been a fair title.​

I tried to make this post clear and concise (and very verbose I know...) to represent all the facts at hand. I know I can't post this on the official Lenovo forums because it will get deleted like the other similar posts in nature I made and I'm thankful I have this refuge to express my frustrations and predicament.

This issue is costing me (1) time because I have to deal with the initial problem (2 dimm issue) and having to document all of this (sometimes even twice), (2) inconvenience because I am without a laptop for school, (3) frustration because I'm dealing with reps that are inept to the issue,and (I would have never have thought) hypocritical and unresponsive mods that seem to just be protecting the image of the company, and (4) money because there are better opportunity costs (such as purchasing a laptop from dell,). The possible impact of all of this is lower grades because I have less time to study (I"m a corporate finance major, and I have tons of homework).

To quote another post, if I had posted the title "My wonderful T61P experience" would my title have been edited? I'm sure all of you know the answer.

If I'm incorrect on any points please feel free to correct me, and that includes the mods of the official Lenovo forum, especially billbolton.


/deep breath

 

You need to continue fighting this. It does not surprise me at all that the moderators have done that. There are often times ridiculous moderators and why they feel the need to protect Lenovo even when they are volunteers and not on the payroll does not make sense. I think people can tell the difference between strong and inflammatory language - besides, the details in the post have not been changed, which tells you that the real concern has to do with the title being a warning.

The company will bank on you giving up, so DON'T.

 

I won't. They really picked on the wrong guy. When it comes to matter like being majorly screwed over, I don't take it lightly nor lying down.


I will post this on the Lenovo forums:

For continuous updates please check out the other forum site as it is being updated more frequently.​

I will screenshot this one. Lets see if they take delete this post.

 

Btw I took screenshots of the entire post just in case the decide to delete the entire thing. I should of took screenshots of my entire thread last night when I changed the title. Live and learn...