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    My horrible Lenovo experience and why I will never purchase from Lenovo again (long)

    Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by omph, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. techno_techie

    techno_techie Notebook Consultant

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    You really should do a youtube video - make sure you document everything.
     
  2. Arki

    Arki Super Moderator

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    Hello omph,

    It is very unfortunate to read about your horrible experience with Lenovo and the minor mishap with the Lenovo forums. Are you saying that if Lenovo does rectify this issue you will consider purchasing again? If so, I will gladly change the title of this thread.

    I agree that forums are here to share experience and discuss issues and events whether it is good or bad. We are not here to purposely make Lenovo look bad nor look good; we are here just to share our experience regardless of what it is.

    I appreciate your posting of your experience to inform others, but I would also like to inform everybody who has read this thread that every company (Dell, HP, Acer, etc.) has their bad services and all of them have their good ones as well. I would also like to mention that even though you may read more about bad exeriences rather than good ones, keep in mind that hundreds of notebooks are purchased every day and the majority of the pleased customers do not sign onto these forums to post about their happy experience. Instead, it is usually the ones who did not have good experience that post.

    Omph, I highly recommend that you take the advice of the many supporters you have acquired and continue instituting your rights as a customer and receive what is rightfully yours. I would also like you to keep in mind that as your title states, this is your experience and does not necessarily reflect the overall service of Lenovo. So you can advise people not to purchase from Lenovo but also let them know that your reasons are from your experience and no one elses' and that the majority of customers actually have good experiences.

    Again, I am sorry to hear about your incredible misfortune and wish you the utmost best of luck to getting this issue resolved. On behalf of the Lenovo forum here on NotebookReview, you have our support.

    Good luck!,

    Arkit3kt
     
  3. Hellbore

    Hellbore Notebook Evangelist

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    If you think a moderator is abusing his power you should talk to someone higher up like maybe Mark or Tim. I think as a Lenovo customer you should be considered at least as important as some moderator if not more so. The customer is always right as they say...

    Never fight with a moderator, you will always lose. Either go above his head or just shrug it off, let it go and realize that there will always be some injustices involved in positions of power, especially those whose duties include censorship and supression of certain ideas or opinions.

    The other side of the coin is that your posts have shifted their focus from the original topic, to your personal squabble with the moderators. In all fairness, your demands and complaints are starting to sound kind of petty and obsessive, and nobody really wants to read your argument with the moderator. From this perspective, the removal of these repeated accusations seem somewhat justified. You should probably stick to the real issue which is getting your laptop fixed.
     
  4. morphy

    morphy Notebook Deity

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    Hellbore is right...can't win against a mod. Just say your piece and be done with it.

    I've come across forums where I've seen mods abusing their powers. There is only one solution. Stop posting and visiting the forum. Eventually if it happens enough ppl will frequent the forum less and less.

    As for the mods over there I dunno, I thought they've normally been fair but they do run a tight ship there. But I can see why they might have jumped the gun and edited the title. There's never been a lack of "attention seeking" thread titles time and time again - some are legitimate beefs but most veer into the realm of gratuitous drama which usually involve one person masquerading on multiple handles (if that isn't the best definition of 'get a life' I don't know what is). When I first saw this title thread I didn't even bother reading. I'm sure we all remember MonsterMaxx...this title would make him proud. :p
     
  5. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    Hellbore:

    You state, "The other side of the coin is that your posts have shifted their focus from the original topic, to your personal squabble with the moderators."

    Shifted from the original post of the topic? Firstly, I continued to post updates while I continued to ask the mods to answer my and another user's legitimate questions about the shady (IMO) title changes. Again, I, as you would put it, finally "shrugged it off" by saying my say on the NBR forums but thanks again for helping revive these serious and important issues.

    Second, if the moderators had even bothered to reply to, what you coin as, "important" customers, such as myself and the second poster, this predicament could have been completely avoided, need I say more about this?

    "Personal squabble"? Your absolutely right its personal because the mods are changing the titles to my thread and ignoring, and have yet to answer, the repeated questions related to the title change which is about my personal experience so as to not draw attention to the thread IMO . I'm sure I can find more than one reasonable person out there that would call this "personal" if they met the same type of unsatisfactory response from Lenovo CSR, Lenovo service depot, and finally the official Lenovo forums.


    You state, "In all fairness, your demands and complains are starting to sound kind of petty and obsessive, and nobody really wants to read your argument with the moderator.

    Petty? Please explain as to how my line of clear and civil questioning to suspect title changes and repeated ignores to perfectly reasonable and relevant questions that pertain to the title OP this serious issue is considered petty.

    Obsessive? Yes your absolutely right. I'm guilty for being "obsessed" with getting treated fairly by all the branches of Lenovo including the official forums. The forums is that last place one would think they would be treated unfairly. In fact, I'm "obsessed" with all the companies that I purchase products from, in this case one that received 5 months of my hard earned money after paying expenses. It's not cheap for me for me to rent a room near school and pay for food and utilities and gas (geeez don't get me on a diatribe about gas prices) in the San Francisco Bay Area - and if you are not aware, the standard of living the SF Bay Area is among the most expensive in the nation.

    Nobody? Your wrong sir. You might want to reread the posts on this thread. There is more than one person interested in my story including the one that involves the debacle at the forums.


    You state, "From this perspective, the removal of these repeated accusations seem somewhat justified."

    Yes I complete agree, from your perspective it might seem justified, but not mines, nor some of the other readers on both forums.
     
  6. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    I greatly appreciate your support. Thank you.

    EDIT: To answer your question, a resounding "NO". As you will see in the post below they deleted my latest post, which is the post before this one and locked my thread. Even if my situation gets resolved favorably for me by Customer Arbitration, I will not purchase from Lenovo ever again, and I will also recommend my family members and friends not to also. Lets see how justly Customer Arbitration will treat me still.
     
  7. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    To all the other posts regarding what action I should take. I will wait till tomorrow for Consumer Arbitration to resolve this matter. I think I'm pretty dam reasonable.

    If not I will execute a more appropriate course of action. I already spoke to my dad about this, and he's willing to help me out if I need it (but he's kinda busy doing taxes atm).

    techno_techie:

    Honestly, how long a youTube video would you think I would have to make to describe all this? Pretty long, I would assume, correct me if I'm wrong (unless you mean say a breif synopse and then give out a url to this thread).Its too time consuming, but I will use it as one of the last resorts.
     
  8. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    UPDATE:

    The mods at the official Lenovo forum have deleted my latest reply to Hellbore's post.

    And they have also made the thread read only , in order (I assume) to prevent me from posting on it anymore.

    I took screenshots of the entire thread with one pic overlapping the next and the url on top so that there is no mistaking where it came from (I'm glad I did it in time too). Now I just need to find a place to host them. Is there a way I can post them up here?

    It seems I can't even post a reply to a Lenovo user's post on my own thread on the Lenovo forums (and I truly thank you from the very bottom of my heart Hellbore for giving me the opportunity to expose the unscrupulous behavior of the official forum moderators of the official Lenovo forums)

    This actions by the mod/s is definitively shady especially since they provide no reason why they deleted the thread or locked it. I guess there is no point for to continue to even try to post on the official Lenovo forums anymore unless I want to get shutdown.

    I will also be posting my experience with Lenovo on the forum.thinkpads.com when I have more time.
     
  9. techno_techie

    techno_techie Notebook Consultant

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    Your real problem is NOT with the moderating staff - you must know that. I understand that you are upset about deleting posts and really, if you made a video, it shouldn't include any of the forum problems, because you should not be surprised about the ridiculous behavior over there - OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO MOD YOUR TITLE, IT IS THEIR PRODUCT! You would probably find that to be true on Dell's site, Gateway, whatever. Plus, people watching the video would not care about what happened in a forum - I think most do not take forums seriously considering the mixture of the adult and the adolenscent that can be found in ANY forum. This is a fact that many have to deal with, so stick with your ORIGINAL problem. I doubt that customer service is trolling the boards to see who is upset about Lenovo - look at all the Canadians who have had a hard time and there has been little solution there.

    Plus, if you don't believe me, have fun with customer arbitration - I am sure they would love to hear about your problems in a forum. When you post, you should post as both a warning and also for advice about handling the situation, rather than getting it solved through that method.
     
  10. magister

    magister Notebook Consultant

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    Good luck with your situation. I feel your pain having been put through the Lenovo system myself.

    I talked to 5 Lenovo reps in 3 different countries. But the most absurd part to me was when the really helpful sounding guy in Phoenix said he was just a sales rep without authority but would transfer me to a higher authority. I got transfered to an upper level manager at Lenovo in Toronto.

    I told her my situation and she outright asked me why she should believe me that the product was defective(it had a bad screen and super-i mean nasty-noisy dvd rom). She said Lenovo can't believe everyone with a problem. Then she asked me how I got her number in the first place.

    So, for the next few minutes I described the chain of events leading me to her. In the end, she said she had to go to a meeting and I should either pay 15% to return it or send it to the repair depot. That was the last straw for me. Showed me how much Lenovo cares for their customers. How could they believe me, seriously. I sent the laptop to returns (luckily I was in the 21 day return period) with a lengthy letter outlining the problems. A couple weeks later I hadn't heard back so I called. They said the laptop was operating within "specified paramaters" and I had been issued a credit minus 15% restocking fee (so they took more than $150 from me and I got nothing and I paid $45 to ship it so net loss of about $200).

    Now I own a Dell D630. Honestly, I like the T61 better(less the issues I had with mine of course). I bought (and kept) the Dell because I knew I could return it if there was a problem. Dells may have as many or more problems than other brands but there's no ridiculous 15% restocking fee to contend with. The fan on my D630 runs more frequently, it's louder to my sensitive ears, and the trackpoint isn't nearly as nice but I'm keeping it. I'd like to think I might try Lenovo again in the future. Maybe one day I will. But when I hear a story like this I doesn't help.

    I didn't mean to take so much time on your thread. Sorry I got carried away. Good luck on your situation. I hope they resolve it correctly.
     
  11. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    Trust me, I understand my "real" problem is not with the moderating staff, but my the "defective/tampered" laptop in the depot and my experience with Lenovo CSR and tech.

    The previous post which is partially directed at you should better read:

    "To all the other posts regarding what is should do [including contacting the BBB, making a youTube video (as you suggested), etc]. I will wait for Customoer Arbitration [first] to resolve the matter [before I take other recourse]. I [still] think I'm pretty dam reasonable [especially with all that has transpired, I am giving Customer Arbitration a shot to see if they can right a wrong.

    You must forgive me its getting very late, and you have to admit Ive been typing quite a bit today as you will notice after my first post today (which has the least grammar and spelling issues) my threads get progressively worse in spelling and grammar.
     
  12. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    With all due respect, he's wrong in this case, the mods shot themselves in the foot this time around and I have it partially documented.

    I kick myself for not taking screenshots of the title change and other posts prior to them being deleted - people will have to take my word; but considering they deleted my last post and locked the thread, it really isn't unfathomable is it?

    Karma (good or bad, you decide) will end up at the doorstep of the official Lenovo mods that brushed aside legitimate concerns of posters, I can guarantee it.. My screenshots and this thread I'm sure will be around for quite some time I assume the more informed people will eventually find it and let others know.


    eh you should know by now the kind of reply I would make to a statement such as this (especially after Hellbore's post and I don't want to go into more history lessons). But I'll be brief and nice, by simply saying, "Stand for what you believe in. If they can't hear, shout I say." (fr some reason this quotation seems very familiar, I just recall where it came fr.....) I'm a son of a lawyer, if that helps put my perspective into a context you can relate too.


    Sorry I don't buy there is only one solution. If you are resourceful, there is always more than one solution, you just have to think outside the box. One of the solutions for me is posting my experience on forum.thinkpads.com and post screenshots on this forum and there, to help illustrate my predicament.

    Other Lenovo and thinking-to-buy Lenovo users read both these forums, it will make them consider more carefully whether to make their next purchase from Lenovo and will also cast an unscrupulous shadow on some of the mods that I have called out in that forum. This story will get around, I'm sure of it. You have to agree it is pretty extraordinary on all fronts. I still find it hard to believe it involves me.


    Yup I do, and even after reading his posts, as I stated in previous post, I still went ahead and took a chance with a T61P fr Lenovo
     
  13. morphy

    morphy Notebook Deity

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    point: the mods in that other forum aren't breaking any laws. The only injustice here is the way the depot has conducted their business allegedly.

    You might not agree with how they (the mods) do their job and you have every right to question them on it but they don't owe you an explanation. If they decide to give one its at their own discretion but they are not entitled to no matter how much you feel that you are.

    You are not paying them to do their job so they don't have to answer to you...unlike govt's who have the taxpayers to answer to. The forums are user run, not company run. They can ban you or I or anyone and not give any reason. I hate to sound crass but the attitude is one of " if you don't like it, go somewhere else".

    I wish you luck but as others have suggested focus on things like Cust Arbitration etc.
     
  14. kboyer

    kboyer Notebook Consultant

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    Let's not forget -- forums are privately owned property. This is not a street corner on Main Street USA. First Amendment rights don't apply. Owners, admins, and mods can do whatever they darn well please. It's their house. How they run that house often determines the size and satisfaction of their community.
     
  15. morphy

    morphy Notebook Deity

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    And the thing too about free speech and stuff are all fine and dandy. But here's the thing: forums are like special focus groups. If a pro-lifer would go into a pro-choice meeting and call them all killers, the person'd be kicked out and they can complain all they want about free speech - won't do them an ounce of good.
     
  16. techno_techie

    techno_techie Notebook Consultant

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    I absolutely agree with you about waiting to see what happens with arbitration - like I said, if you get little or no headway with Lenovo, then you go the CC and BBB route. (Rather, you should go ahead and do the BBB route because you already are being, in my opinion, very unreasonably asked to seek "customer arbitration"). I think it is a very good thing for you to post your experience, regardless of this "one time out of thousands" deal because it really shouldn't happen with one customer, let alone a handful. I think it is important for people to consider independent, small-time manufacturers because it does lessen the likelihood of dissatisfaction. That being said, you pay a premium for smaller groups, but face to face contact is a definite plus.
     
  17. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    Your are correct. I have to agree with the poster here completely.

    But my whole point wasn't that whether free speech was the issue, but rather that people shouldn't just shrug off and accept the " injustices involved in positions of power especially those whose duties include censorship and suppression of certain ideas or opinions." Is it so wrong to think this way?

    I firmly believe injustice was committed but this is a matter of opinion

    I apologize if my examples were a bit extreme (I thought they illustrated my point, but I was clearly wrong). But wouldn't the American colonialist think along the same lines? Considering the actions they took, I would only think so.


    I agree its their house but Lenovo is a MNE, and being an MNE should adhere to higher ethical standards which includes at the very least (in the humble opinion of this business major) responding to legitimate questions raised by members of their community (I am a registered forum user and thus part of the community I would only hope) and a paying customer (which I most definitely am). The mods act as "agents" of the company and represent Lenovo (whether paid or not).

    I didn't even get 1 reply that directly responded to my questions and concerns, only I was told and I'm paraphrasing) to shut it and accept it.
     
  18. wrighton

    wrighton Notebook Consultant

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    You're quite correct to point out that a Lenovo-operated forum is in many ways a promotional tool for the company. However, there is a fine line any company has to walk in running such a forum. If the forum is to be effective as a promotional tool, it must visibly demonstrate that Lenovo not only wants to listen to its customers but allows them complete freedom to air their complaints. When mods and administrators start interfering with posts in a heavy-handed way, then the company starts to appear hypocritical, to say the least.
     
  19. The Fire Snake

    The Fire Snake Notebook Virtuoso

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    Omph,
    FYI.. Mark Lenovo has just responded to your post on the Lenovo forums and has offered some help, but I think the thread still remains closed.

    Personally I think if I decide to purchase from Lenovo, I will defenetly get the accident coverage to be safe, otherwise I won't purchase from them at all. Otherwise it is there word against mine and it is possible to wind up in the same situation as omph and it is very difficult to prove the damage was not caused by me(when not true).
     
  20. kboyer

    kboyer Notebook Consultant

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    Would love to see this -- do you have a link please?
     
  21. techno_techie

    techno_techie Notebook Consultant

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    Any word back from arbitration?
     
  22. The Fire Snake

    The Fire Snake Notebook Virtuoso

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    Here you go -> Mark's response

    Scroll to the bottom.
     
  23. techno_techie

    techno_techie Notebook Consultant

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    I think his response was very diplomatic - but I don't know if you would have gotten the response you wanted without all this back and forth motion. So, to say the least, they might have ignored you if you had let this stuff fly...

    The squeaky wheel doth geteth the oil.
     
  24. joshuasgto

    joshuasgto Notebook Enthusiast

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    Apparently the thread has been reopened.

    Omph - might I make another suggestion. For all future conversations you have with Lenovo CSR or Techs - record the phone conversation. All of it. A simple hand held voice recorder next to a phone on speaker or next to a second phone. Most modern phones nowadays actually have a feature built in to record anyways.

    I have done this before with disputes. It tends to help during escalation if questions arise on what has been stated or implied.
     
  25. JHanko

    JHanko Notebook Enthusiast

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    Omph,
    Sorry to hear about the problem you're having. I recently had a similar experience with Lenovo, but it was purchase related, not a service issue. You can read about it here if interested. I was getting nowhere with Lenovo support and decided to spread the word through the forums as you did. I was offered assistance from forum members Nonny and Mark-Lenovo, and took it. Without their help, I honestly think I would be typing on a Dell right now instead of my new X61. Mark Lenovo has offered to help you and I think this is a major step in the right direction. My advice to you would be to stay focused on getting your laptop repaired and back in your hands instead of getting in a pissing match with moderators. You are wasting time & energy on doing so and it wont help with your objective. It will only cause you more stress. Trust me, I know...
    At this point, I would would say that Mark Lenovo is your best shot at getting this resolved. In my case, after Mark stepped in, it took less than 24 hours for a customer relations rep to contact me and get everything straightened out. Would I purchase another Lenovo product? I think so, but would definitely do things a little different. I wish you the best of luck with this...
     
  26. Mark@Lenovo

    Mark@Lenovo Company Representative

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    Omph,

    I apologize to you for how this situation unfolded, and I'm sorry that the whole discussion got sidetracked into censorship and an apparent escalation on what is required in order to be heard. The thread on the Lenovo board is unlocked.

    I would, however appreciate it, if we could start anew - and just focus on your product and service issues. We try to be fair to all our customers, irrespective of their postings. As no process is 100% perfect, the arbitration of the depot spill finding is part of that policy of fairness- it's a mechanism just like any appeal process, to allow an independent group to review the facts and ensure a fair and proper resolution for the customer.
     
  27. The Fire Snake

    The Fire Snake Notebook Virtuoso

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    Can you elaborate what you would different?
     
  28. JHanko

    JHanko Notebook Enthusiast

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    I would use a credit card instead of a debit card and would place the order over the phone with a salesperson so I could contact them directly with questions, updates and problems...
     
  29. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    No update yet thus far. Customer Arbitration hasn't contacted me and I had my cell on me all day today. I was told last Thursday that Customer Arbitration would contact me in the next day or so....

    I'm also still waiting for the service depot to send me pictures of the "foreign substance spillage". I don't think its that difficult to take a couple snapshots and email them. And if what Mark says is true (that they do take pics of spillage) they should have already done it, so its just a matter of emailing them. But I have little confidence in the competence of the depot where my laptop is at anyways. Remember, they couldn't even answer my questions as to whether my laptop powers on or as to what was wrong or not functioning with the keyboard and motherboard that was damaged by the "foreign substance spillage" even after running a "full diagnostics".

    I have been really busy with school and homework all day. This case and the incident at the official Lenovo forums has already taken a lot of time away from school already. My M&A project is only halfway done and if I don't finish it soon I won't have time to study for my accounting classes (I hate accounting!). I'll respond to everyone including Mark tomorrow when I get more of my project out of the way.

    Thank you for everyone that has wished me luck, I truly appreciate it.
     
  30. Hellbore

    Hellbore Notebook Evangelist

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    My point exactly, but you put it more succinctly :)
     
  31. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    Going to respond to a couple posts before I crash.


    Honestly, can't a guy do more than one thing at a time? :) FYI this whole unfortunate incident on the official Lenovo forums transpired over the weekend and AFAIK Customer Arbitration and just about every other Lenovo department is closed on the weekend.

    As I stated in a previous post to techno_techie:

    And that is what I'm doing. Waiting for Customer Arbitration to try to settle my case. I think I'm being pretty fair.


    Not once did I mention anything about free speech or reference the 1st Amendment. If you are referring to my example concerning the American colonialist, it had nothing to do with free speech. The American Revolution was fought because the British Parliament suppressed the belief that American colonialist had a say in taxation - taxation without representation.

    As I stated in a previous post, I apologize if my examples were a bit extreme. But you can't help but blame me for thinking of major historical references when I see the statement "...injustices involved in positions of power, especially those whose duties include censorship and supression of certain ideas or opinions", rather than obscure examples (I'm sure there are others that would too).


    I'm going to have to categorically disagree.

    While not my intention in the slightest bit, this whole "pissing match" IMO has brought more attention to my case and will probably end up in a speedier resolution (as soon as I contact Mark tomorrow). If you don't think its in the best interest of Lenovo to offer an expedited satisfactory settlement to avoid even more negative press, then we just have different opinions and how causality actually works. Imagine what will ensue if Lenovo says I have to pay $750 for a new motherboard after all that I have encountered. As you can all tell, I'm not just going to roll over.

    In addition, this "pissing match" has served even a greater purpose (and benefits all members of the official Lenovo forums). I can pretty much guarantee that the official Lenovo forum moderators will listen more closely and respond to the legitimate and serious concerns of members.

    Quote from Mark in his post on my thread, "Perhaps there is an opportunity for us to review our moderation & admin practices for consistency here."

    As techno_techie puts it:

    Good night all. Hopefully tomorrow brings good news.
     
  32. morphy

    morphy Notebook Deity

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    lol this doesn't even scratch the surface when it comes to negative press for Lenovo. With numerous complaints lodged to the BBB...not just the mere threat of it. There's been countless negative press in greater voracity than this and no Lenovo rep came flying to the rescue to deter the bad press. Maybe you're giving yourself too much credit...perhaps some but I would hasten to guess that its a combination of support you got in this forum and the official forums from the populace and the nature of the problem that got the higher ups moving.
     
  33. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    When you say,"..I would hasten to guess that its a combination of support you got in this forum and the official forums from the populace and the nature of the problem that got the higher ups moving," I am aware of this fact and never deny this. That is the reason why I constantly thank the support and understanding of the people that have posted on this thread.

    And let me rephase what I said earlier about negative press. There will be more negative press for Lenovo on this forum. And if you don't think that will impact Lenovo in any way, then you underestimate the number of people that actually read this forum to help them decide whether to purchase from Lenovo or not.

    And if you don't think it has already had an impact. It already has. Let me rephrase what I said in a previous post.

    In addition, this "pissing match" (not my words btw) has served even a greater purpose and benefits ALL members of the official Lenovo forum AND Notebook Review.

    Mark is watching this board ever more closely now. And is already addressing the concerns of Lenovo customers by posting on threads of customers seeking help.

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=240069


    EDIT: (just in case morphy thinks its all me)

    Thank you for all the support everybody, if it wasn't for this community I don't think my case would have gotten the press that it does. /bow


    EDIT: My apologies to you morphy if my first reply to you was a bit defensive. Edited to sound less so.
     
  34. kboyer

    kboyer Notebook Consultant

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    My post was in response to things posted about heavy handed moderation and locked threads. The point was that Free Speech doesn't apply here. Moderation and locking are done at their discretion. Nothing more, nothing less.

    But while I'm here might I suggest that your energies would be better spent on homework than needlessly defending your past posts. Most of us would get a little emotional if we were getting yanked around like you are. The only one that should (apparently) have a defensive posture around here is Lenovo. :rolleyes:
     
  35. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    My message to Mark:


    Hi Mark,

    It is very regrettable events had to unfold the way they did. I assure it was never my intention for any of this to happen. I hope you can tell from the language in my posts (on both the Lenovo forums and NBR), I try to do my best to be reasonable and civil. Had I gotten a response about the wording in the title early on and found an appropriate resolution, I would have never had pressed the issue.

    I fully understand certain words convey personal sentiment that is why I asked for the approval of the word, “unsatisfactory”, and if the moderator had any suggestion as to a more suitable adjective or wording to convey the tone of experience in numerous posts. There is absolutely nothing wrong with "Bad service? - Disputed Spill Allegations" but please keep in mind this suggestion or any advice whatsoever was repeatedly denied to me, until you had to step in at this late stage.

    You can hardly blame me for being a bit frustrated (understatement) after all that I have been through with my new T61P, Lenovo CSR, service depot, and finally the official forum. The forum was the very last place I thought my questions would be repeatedly censored and ignored (by more then one moderator) especially regarding a simple yet still legitimate concern over title wording.

    I’m happy though that we are finally resolving this issue. With that said, I would like to ask for the approval of a title similar to one you suggested, “Bad service / Defective product? - Disputed Spill Allegations". Please let me know if this title is appropriate.

    Secondly, I would appreciate if you could help look into my case for me (#######). The service depot has yet to email me pictures and they do have my email address I assure you. However, I have very little faith in the service depot that has my laptop. If pictures are supposed to be taken of all spill allegations like you said, it is only a matter of emailing them. In addition, the fact that the service depot wasn’t able to answer my simple questions as to what the “foreign substance” is, whether the laptop powers on or not, and what the exact malfunction of the keyboard and motherboard is after a “full diagnostics” makes me very suspicious as to how the depot operates.

    The resolution I am hoping for frankly is to have the entire laptop exchanged as I am very concerned with what other parts of the laptop have been tampered with, either by the depot or at the factory where it was built. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your time and inconvenience.

    Yours truly,

    omph
     
  36. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    Fair enough.

    However, I can't help defending myself :) I'm a son of a lawyer remember? :p
     
  37. THAANSA3

    THAANSA3 Exit Stage Left

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    This thread is becoming less and less about what Lenovo did and more about peoples' differing opinions on how the situation should be handled. I mean, we've even discussed the American Revolution. Are you kidding? To the OP, continue to do what you have to do to make sure Lenovo rectifies what's wrong. However you choose to go about that is up to you, as none of us have to worry about your specific situation. I truly hope that you can come to some kind of resolution. What more really needs to be said?
     
  38. techno_techie

    techno_techie Notebook Consultant

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    Sheesh, I would really like to see what happens myself - I just purchased, and I mean "just" as in it hasn't arrived at my house yet, a Thinkpad T61. I really don't think this issue would have been resolved had their not been a fuss over the posting issues. that being said, I absolutely think there is some excess.

    Please keep us updated. I would like to see how this gets handled on Lenovo's end in the event I have a problem with my purchase.
     
  39. Hellbore

    Hellbore Notebook Evangelist

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    Mark has always listened closely and responded to people's concerns on the Lenovo forums. You can't assume causation here, it's the old post hoc ergo proctor hoc fallacy. Mark's busy so he doesn't post every single day and especially not on weekends. By the time anyone has time to respond to your concerns you have already posted 10 more replies. The fact that you did a bunch of stuff and then something happened does not imply causation.
     
  40. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    Hellbore:

    I know that there are also other readers that also believe that some causation is in effect. In fact, I have even received a private message from a poster on this thread that also believes it to be true. The reason he chose not to post about it is because he did not want to get into a heated debate.

    When you get yanked around as much as I have been, it really is hard not trying to be defensive. Anyways, I appreciate you editing your post and not trying to be as confrontational as the previously unedited version at the very least. No hard feelings about anything that I might have said to you in the past.
     
  41. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    It is definitely an excellent idea to use a cc with any major purchase and not a debit card because if you had to dispute an issue, you can also receive help from the cc company. With the debit card, the money's already gone and you have one less person/entity to help you.

    I also appreciate your support.
     
  42. optomos

    optomos Notebook Evangelist

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    I feel for you man. When I worked for Lenovo, I had a customer call in upset over his laptop. He sent it in since his Bluetooth did not work. When the Depot department in TN looked at it they made a note in the case that his laptop did not have a Bluetooth card and that he would have to purchase it himself. I had to call Depot, AKA Flextronics and speak to the supervisor who after looking at laptop again and me explaining to him that under the warranty of the laptop it showed that his unit CAME with a BT card. He finally agreed and said it would be taken care of. This was one of the many cases I had to take of for customers.

    What you probably should have done is requested the laptop back without arguing and taken it apart yourself to verify any liquid spill. At this point you are SOL and at the mercy of the Depot because it’s your word against theirs and they are the ones that have your laptop now.

    I can tell you personally they replace a lot, and I mean a lot of system boards and I can see them giving people a hard time.

    Did you say you upgraded RAM or anything else on this laptop?
     
  43. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    Thanks you for your understanding. Yes, I did upgrade the RAM but I was so anal-retentive that I even put on latex gloves on before I swapped out the RAM so I wouldn't get fingerprints on my "baby". I can guarantee 100% that if the inside of the computer was dusted you will not find even one partial fingerprint of mines.
     
  44. optomos

    optomos Notebook Evangelist

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    It wasn't how you installed the upgrades that I was to worried about, but if you left the upgrades in the laptop when you sent it in. If they see that you upgraded parts in your laptop they start assuming you damaged it in some way.

    I would only give them a couple of days more before requesting my laptop back because the longer it sits at the depot the higher the possibility it will get damaged there. Also, be prepared to look for and take pictures of your laptop if it comes back damaged. I have seen laptops get sent in for safety issues, ie. smoke and 6 moths later the customer recieved their laptop back :)
     
  45. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    No way I left those 2x2GB of RAM in there! :) I was even advised by CSR, when I placed the initial call to get the laptop sent in, to take the HD out first (images of the of the Edison Chen photo scandal were going through my brain when he said this - not like there were photos of that nature on there to begin with).

    Considering, the manifestation of a "foreign substance spillage", the fact the depot has yet to even email me pictures even though as Mark stated in a previous post that the depot is required to take pictures of any spill (its only a simple matter of attaching and emailing them!), and other questionable responses I received from the depot, I highly doubt the laptop is unscathed and casts a serious doubt as to when and if the pics were actually taken (it is so easy to backdate a picture). We will see...

    I do appreciate your concern though. Thank you!
     
  46. Hellbore

    Hellbore Notebook Evangelist

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    If you look at the timestamps you'll see that your reply was posted at 04:06 PM, the very same minute I posted my last edit. When I edited my post yours wasn't showing in the thread yet. I didn't think you had read mine yet and I decided not to express my annoyances with you, you're already frustrated enough with this issue. Honestly though still I hope you get a favorable resolution even if we disagree on some of your methods.
     
  47. techno_techie

    techno_techie Notebook Consultant

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    When exactly is arbitration supposed to call you back?
     
  48. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    This is Mark's response to my message to him posted on the official forums:


    Omph,

    Thanks again for sharing your situation.

    While this issue is worked, If you feel strongly that there remains a more fitting title for your post reflective of a poor or unsatisfactory depot experience, a spill / billable repair dispute, you are welcome to change the title accordingly.

    I believe the moderation efforts were in pursuit of the following passage from the rules:

    Title threads appropriately. The title of a thread should accurately reflect the subject of the discussion and be as technically specific as possible. Avoid inflammatory or emotional statements that do not aid the development of the conversation. Thread titles are indexed not only for search functions within the forum, but often externally in Google, Yahoo, etc. Proper thread titles will aid the active members of the Lenovo community, as well as non-members who may be searching more broadly. Example of a good thread title: T Thinkpad Blue Screens after suspend . Example of a bad thread title: Stupid computer locks up - worthless piece of junk. Moderators may alter thread titles to be more meaningful if less than appropriate titles are chosen.

    The moderators are volunteers and proceed with best intentions, and I'm appreciative of their contributions. Obviously, situations such as this one afford us a chance to reflect on our approach and look for ways to improve. I agree that civility can prevail, and am glad that it has.

    Best regards,

    Mark.
     
  49. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    I did receive a call from Carolyn a little while ago from a customer relations department, but I was in the bathroom when she called. When I did return her call a couple minutes later, she must of stepped out of the office already of was busy with other matters. I did leave 2 messages on her voicemail though. Since she is on the East Coast, she is already off work and I expect she will call tomorrow. I didn't want to post an update until I actually had the chance to speak to her, but since you asked.
     
  50. omph

    omph Notebook Geek

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    It's all good Hellbore. I'm glad we could get past our needless quarrel. I do admit and apologize for getting over exited at some of your comments before. Thank you for your support on a favorable resolution.
     
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