New T400 build

does anyone else notice that the build of the newer T400 and T500 models is much weaker and flexier? In comparison to some of the old thinkpads that I have from IBM (R51, solid as a brick in all areas), the new models seem really cheap feeling.


Check out these two videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrerGDrMYlE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8sOO-8LP4E

The chassis has significant flex on the right side near the bottom right corner and also when you give the dvd/optical drive area a squeeze. I've noticed that some of the user opinions have noted this too, but I'm surprised this isn't a bigger issue. I've read that they've addressed the keyboard issue, but why not make the overall notebook more durable too? Every effort seems to be for making laptops lighter, but it seems like they are just making them cheaper and more cost efficient for themselves...

 

Over all my T400 is solid. My T41p might have had the edge in certain areas but I payed more than double for it.

T41p was just over 3k.
T400 was just over 1.3k.

If they are making the new lappies cheaper then at least they are passing the savings on to the consumer.

 

Screw that. Thank you for the Youtube review. I was considering this against the Asus N80. I am staying with the Asus. Lenovos are going down in quality.

 

I'm assuming that your looking for a semi budget laptop.. if that's the case you would've never thought about buying a laptop that was over 3k.

So while you comparing Asus to the Lenovo is apples to apples, comparing the vintage IBMs to new age Lenovo machines is kinda apples to oranges.

The two reasons I "upgraded" to the T400 is price (#1) and wide screen. I'd never pay 3k for another lappy again.

I understand that Thinkpad users expect better quality and are willing to pay for it but I guess Lenovo has a different plan.

 

That's FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). The first video (warped chassis) is clearly a case that should be covered by warranty.

The guy from the second video actually shows some actual issues, methinks (I never had one in my hand...). But the keyboard flex has already been addressed. And the palm flex will hopefully be addressed with the next model.

Buying a laptop means to make an informed decision. So be informed that even if the keyboard and chassis flexes the Thinkpads are:
- still very solid machines. The palm flex may or may not be a bummer for you (for me it wouldn't be. I just pressed my ages old Insiron I use every day and you know what? I hate the mushy keyboard, but in all the years I didn't recognize the chassis warps that much until I just pushed it hard now after seeing the video)
- noise- and heat- wise among the best (if not THE best)

In the end it always depends on your needs and pocket. And you can't have it all, regardless how much money you spend.

 

Thanks BetaTron for your input. I agree that I wouldn't pay that price for a laptop either, and I do appreciate the screen on the T400 as well.

But just to add to my point, the R51 system that I used before was approximately the same price as the T400 I have now. And given that the R51 was only about 3 or 4 years ago, I wouldn't exactly agree with you in saying that its "vintage" or that we are comparing apples to oranges.

I don't think my T400 is terrible, it has its up sides, but for the premium you pay for the thinkpad, and how they advertise the thinkpad brands, it is a little misleading.

Take for example the roll cage that they advertise for the T400 on the lenovo website. The picture they show of the magnesium alloy chassis clearly looks different from what you see when you actually open up the unit to look inside. There's less material, its full of holes, and they might play it off as something to make the unit lighter, but overall it makes the chassis weaker. I've compared the flex of the T400 with my friend's T61 (which has a chassis that actually looks like the picture they advertise), and the T61 seems sturdier.

 

I also don't have the budget to immediately buy the next model... Most laptop consumers probably don't...

 

Valid points. Most here do believe the thinkpad line has changed for the better or worse. There is a trade off with quality and premium price and the service with it. However, most purchasers still likely feel the quality is still warranted in the purchase vs most other laptops (and they might have certain things they like compared to other business notebooks). I certainly feel my x200 warranted the price I paid for it and I am happy of the quality of it compared to a lot of consumer laptops I have to work with.

 

Just my own personal opinion here, I still think ThinkPads are still better than your average notebook, but they're no longer the gold standard they once were. It's a changing world. ThinkPads aren't a small part of huge IBM anymore. Now, we could live in a world where ThinkPads had phenomenal build quality and support, but they cost $3k. At that price point most of the people here couldn't afford a ThinkPad. Which do you prefer?

All the ThinkPads I've seen of late: the T61, R61, X61, X300 and Z61 have all been solid notebooks. Is there room for improvement, of course. My own R60 is in great shape, better than my T42 at this point in its life, which was starting to get a little creaky when I sold it off.

 

the issues with the flex in the lower right corner stems from the fact that the plastic panel thats right below the right bottom corner is very loose.

its need to be screwed on tighter...

 

PHP:

Dear Zaz,

Thank you for pointing both the workability and the failability of the modern day lenovos. I agree with you but with limitations. The t61p lenovo is a great notebook but the new ones "aint what they used to be". But as you point out, none of them are. If were a market for a $3500.00 notebook people would be selling them. They aren't. I'd be much happier if they were.

Renee

 

hmm,wouldn't it be great if lenovo had another crash test video to prove their products can still handle what their older products could.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate any price savings that lenovo can pass on the customer. I understand that there is a complex balance between design and price. But I feel as though the weaknesses in the design of the computer can be fixed with really simple solutions that wouldn't be of great cost in terms of production.

I have tried taking out the palm rest, re-adjusting it, and tightening the screws that seal the plastic around the hard drive, but there is still some degree of looseness... It's just a matter of fitting, measurements, and doing a better job of making sure the plastics line up with each other. Same goes with the plastics that go over the dvd/optical drive, it just needs to lie on the roll cage closer. Or the plastics need to be reinforced in those specific areas.

Some of the other reputable manufacturers are providing high end business laptops with similar features for much more competitive prices that make me feel as though lenovo is falling a bit behind the pack. Which is a shame, because I was a great admirer of the thinkpad brand.

 

I have noticed this as well. Some people will argue this to the death, but I really do see where HP is stepping up their business line, and they're actually very close to matching (and maybe surpassing) anything that Lenovo has to offer. While that has not changed my mind about putting in an order, it is still a bit disconcerting.

BTW, both of these clips have been posted before. I wish I could find the thread for everyone. Some interesting conversation resulted from them.

 

I agree that HP has been really bringing their business line up. My roommate has an Hp business notebook. Their warranty service is also very good. However, I am not a fan of their keyboards :\ .

 

I hear you, Jaredy. However, it looks like Lenovo does care anymore about the reputed keyboards, as evidenced by the rampant issues before. Let's see what they do in the future in that regard. The word is that they've reverted to the same T61 keyboard architecture. I hope that's true and they continue to do so.

 

Comparing ASUS three years ago (W3V) to ASUS today is also Apples to Oranges. The W3V was a tough built machine. The best they ever built IMO.

Todays Asus is a plastic mainstream machine that is nothing special to brag about. I am switching to a T500 if I can get the right price.