New T410s - question about Enhanced Experience, Clean Installs, SSD's

Hi all,

I'm a proud new owner of a t410s, my first thinkpad. So far, I've been very happy with the laptop, but I'm interested in doing a clean install of Windows 7. This is typically the first thing I do with all of my laptops (previously all Dell's) - I like the feeling of starting with a fresh slate. However, I've been running on this laptop for a few weeks, and I have yet to do a clean install for a few reasons.

First, the laptop comes from lenovo as a "enhanced experience" laptop, with special optimizations which supposedly improve performance. Will I lose these if I do a clean install? Does it even matter (I have no idea what these optimizations are)? Please note, I would be installing from a OEM copy of Windows 7 pro 64 (using the product key that came with the t410s), not the reinstall disks that I burned from the laptop.

Also, my t410s was configured with a Intel 80gig SSD. Much to my chagrin, it is a G1, so no trim support. Are there any concerns or special procedures I should take if I reinstall on an SSD? SSD's are new to me so I am worried that I can cause performance degradation if not reformatted properly...

In addition to having a nice clean slate to work with, here are a few issues I hope to solve with a clean install:

1 - Occasionally the mouse freezes and stops responding for aprox. 1-3 seconds. This happens whether using the touchpad or an external mouse. This is my work laptop, and over the course of a day, it happens probably at least 4 or 5 times... and it's annoying..

2 - There seems to be lots of 3rd party software pre-installed that I don't think I'll use (many of which is Lenovo software - thinkvantage). I like some of the thinkvantage software (the power manager, software update, fingerprint reader software), but much of it I just don't think I need (access manager, security software, etc.). I think a fresh install would be the cleanest way to get rid of all of these, and just choose to install what I want, rather than what Lenovo wants me to use...

Any opinions on whether a clean install is worth it? Do other thinkpad users do a clean install when getting a new thinkpad? Any issues reinstalling on a SSD that I should worry about? Should I do a secure wipe of the SSD first? I'd love to hear anyone's opinion on any of the above. I know it's a long post, so thank you in advance if you stuck it out and are still reading. Any help/advice is GREATLY appreciated.

 

IMO a clean install is always a good idea. The Enhanced Experience won't be affected, it refers to an enhanced BIOS not anything in Windows 7.

SSDs without Trim degrade over time, to refresh them, you need to reformat it. So the best thing to do is to image your system, format, and reimage the hard drive when ever you feel it's degraded too much. But honestly most people can't notice the degradation if someone didn't tell them it was happening in the first place (leading to people running benchmarks >_>).

1) Dunno, does just your mouse stop or does everything stop. SSD could be stuttering.

2) You pretty much picked the right ones to like.

 

you're a better man than i
if i'd have ordered a brand new $1000+ laptop
and they sent me one with an ssd in it that intel stopped making almost a year ago
when g2 drives are freely available
i'd be more than a bit upset

 

Excellent - I thought I read somewhere that it was more then just bios (maybe registry tweaks as well?), but regardless I'm not going to worry about it. My hope is the improvement from having a fresh OS without the bloat will outweigh the supposed 'enhancements' anyways.

I'm still learning about SSD's, but I know just enough to be dangerous. When reformatting, does it matter if it is a 'quick' or full reformat? Also, does windows 7 zero out everything on the drive (and restore ssd performance), or do I need to do a secure erase using 3rd party software like HDErase?

I hope this is not the case. Could this mean that the drive is defective? I guess I'll see what happens and if the problem is still there after the reinstall...

 

Can someone, please explain the difference between the regular and EE systems?

 

Ha! I'm sure a lot of people are going to feel the same way as you. That said, the reason I am not "more than a bit upset" was that the price to upgrade via lenovo was like $100, compared to the ~$250 I'd spend for a new G2 drive, so I still feel like the purchase price was justified. Also, from what I've read, the intel x25 G2 80gig drives have been freely available for awhile, but the x18 80gig G2 drive just recently became available to the masses. I could be wrong though...

 

EE systems are certified for "enhancements" sure as faster boot times, better performance, etc. Here's an article I just found explaining it in more detail:

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/593368.html

IMO it's hard to figure exactly how much of this is real tweaks and optimizations to the machine/OS/bios, and how much is just marketing for their thinkvantage software suite...

 

just curious what your boot time (the time from you press the power on button until the logon screen appears) and shutdown time?

 

Thanks for the link!
I really hope it's just a marketing move and all those tweaks from BIOS to OS can be done by the end user as well. I'd hate to receive my W510 and find out some sound/video stuttering issues that wouldn't be there had I opted for the EE version. In any such or similar case I'd just return the system for a full refund.

 

@:yankees17

In order to return the drive to it's brand new state you need to "zero" out all the bits. A quick format or even a normal format don't do this.

 

Make sure you run Orev's ABR utility before reformatting or doing a clean install. I don't think the key on the back sticker of your laptop is the one that you should use. At least, that's how I clean installed Vista a year old. Just follow the guide here and everything will be fine.

Did I congratulate you on getting such a slim sexy machine?

I am so jealous.

 

Thanks, it really is a beauty. Pictures online don't do it justice - it is much thinner and lighter in person then I thought it was going to be . And thanks for the tip re: product key, I actually bookmarked the thread from a year ago that outlines doing a clean install, and using Orev's ABR utility for the product key. I kind of left that sentence in because I was hoping someone like you would come and confirm it is needed . Thanks!

 

Thanks, that's actually what I thought - But I've read conflicting info as to whether or not a full format via W7 would zero out the drive or not. Do you have any recommendations as to the easiest way to do this? Should I use HDErase 3.3?

 

1) if you need to format / re-format a SSD, only use "quick format".

2) don't worry too much about TRIM or not-TRIM. I have had both situations on my SSD this past 9 months, and have not noticed a difference (but going from a 7200rpm HDD to any good SSD is like going from night to day)

3) to get rid of any Lenovo software, just remove as you do any program. no need to go back to year zero - any more than there is with most software.

4) A modern SSD should not stutter at any time. I can only imagine it is a software issue.

 

If it makes you feel any better, my W510 has a sticker on the palm rest that says "Lenovo Enhanced Experience".

 

FWIW, mainly as information to potential future buyers (not to gloat), the T410s I received yesterday has a G2 Intel drive ("G2LE" whatever that means).

 

That's interesting.... I wonder what others who've received a new T410s have ended up with? If you got a G2, I'm sure most others are as well. I may be missing out due to being one of the first orders/shipments (I ordered it as soon as it was announced, and took delivery several weeks ago). I think I am going to try and reinstall this weekend, and if it doesn't fix my stuttering problem, I may have to call and try to get a replacement SSD - hopefully a G2 if it gets to that point. In the meantime, I get to try and figure out how to do a 'secure erase' of this SSD, fun! (/end sarcasm).

If anyone has any experience or suggestions, advice, 'how to's, etc. on that it would be much appreciated.

 

I think that the Intel SSD Toolbox is helpful for drive maintenance. I also found this article about secure erasing the SSD when I was afraid I was getting a G1 drive May or may not be helpful, but perhaps worth a look.

 

That's because you purchased the EE edition. I went for the regular one, thought it's just some manual customization that I'd do myself.

 

I went for the regular T510 (cheapest base price), and they shipped an Enhanced Experience anyways. Possibly due to upgrades for Intel 6200 and 9 cell battery, but who knows. I have i520, Intel graphics, and (had) 250GB 5400 drive.

Startup is about 20 seconds with aftermarket SSD, and shutdown about 4. So far, I'm very impressed, and EE may be contributing.

 

If I receive the regular edition, we could compare the boot and shutdown times before and after my tweaking.

 

Those are some pretty good numbers at 20 seconds.

 

Thanks for this. It looks like a helpful article when it comes to secure erasing. I will be diving into this over the next couple of days to see if I can figure out how to make the boot disk with HDerase on it.

 

Too good I checked when I got home, and it's 28 seconds till I can launch the Start menu, from power off. But still pretty good. Not many tweaks yet. Beats my Vista on HDD RAID0 by a good margin.

 

Hey Yankees17
I find myself in the same situation as you did when you created this thread a while back. I am getting my T410s sometime next week with an 80GB SSD and want to do a clean install of windows 7, 64bit.
I was just wondering how everything went for you and if you had any pointers for me. Thanks.

 

Hi guys.. why everybody a clean isntall? Lenovo now mostly offers software to install with my T410s, it wasn't preinstalled, just the installation lying on the disk. Ok, I've got Office and the Thinkvantage software installed. But fortunately I use them both. Symantec is luckily not installed (I was sooooooo happy). The Thinkvantage software is much useful if one gets used to it. Nowadays I find I am looking for the Fn+ combinations also on other laptops ... But I miss the Fn+F9...
To the Enhanced Experience, as it was coming I was following a bit and the spoke about BIOS but as well about drivers. So you should make sure you get the drivers from the Lenovo(ibm) site to get the experience after your fresh install.
Miliranga, really, why you want the fresh install?

 

Tulip,
My T410s is coming with a windows 7 32bit OS. I ordred a preconfigured model so I didn't have the option of selecting the 64bit version. I have my own copy of Windows 7 so I just want to do a fresh install and get the 64bit version on my machine.
And thanks for the info on the enhanced experience.

 

For those of you who like fresh installs (which I recommend) you can handpick which Thinkvantage apps you would like from here after installing your OS.

 

Thanks for that turqoisegirl08!!!
Which thinkvantage apps out of the lot do you recommend?
Also when you do a clean install, do you manually install each driver as per "orev's" and "Stallen's" " clean install guides or do you let "system update" take care of it?
Can we do a mix of the two? for example: install the video card driver manually and then let system update take care of the rest?
Thanks.

 

I get all the drivers in one folder and let device manager search the folder for it, then install any ThinkVantage stuff I use. I don't use many of the ThinkVantage tools, only Power Manager, Hotkey and Trackpoint. The other stuff I don't use or there's a good Windows equivalent like for wireless.

 

I am in agreement with ZaZ.

Right now I have Lenovo Power Management, Thinkvantage Airbag Protection (can customize sensitivity or just shut off- its up to you), the Ultranav drivers (does marvelous things for the touchpad and trackpoint), Hotkey, and Lenovo Update and Drivers.

Now...if you're good at updating drivers on your own. You probably don't need the Lenovo Update and Drivers. I only mentioned it because it's an lazy way to update things. The only thing is....

DO NOT UPDATE THE BIOS THIS WAY OR USING THE EXE PROGRAM!

Sorry for yelling. I have read numerous threads that had owners updating the BIOS through windows or through the Lenovo Update utility and as a result had bricked Thinkpads. If you must update the BIOS use the ISO method. This is burning an CD image to a CD and updating that way.

Hope that helped

 

Thanks for the input Zaz and turqoisegirl08
what about updating drivers through windows update? I just did a clean install on an HP and everything went super smooth using windows update. The only driver I had to go to HP's website, look for, and manually install was for the card reader.

 

Typically what I do when I get a new machine is to do a clean install with all the latest drivers available at the time. I do all the updates and tweaks, then I make an image using True Image. After that I rarely update unless there's a need to do so.

 

Hi all,
can someone tell me what do Wireless 802.11 b/g/n and Intel Gigabit Ethernet mean?
thank you

 

Unknownrebel
the first one is your wireless card type which you use to connect to the Internet wirelessly (via your router)
the second is the component which enables you to connect to the Internet using an Ethernet cable via your Ethernet port. (the Ethernet cable would directly connect your laptop to the modem)

 

thanks miligranga.
So if the laptop is having thinkpad card and I want to upgrade it to Intel Centrio, technically what do I need to do?

 

unknownrebel
This can be a bit of a complicated process but not impossible. Here is a link to help you out.
Just take your time, be patient and delicate. Good luck.

 

thanks mate

 

Dont know if this is a good deal or not.
It's a refurbished T410s but I dont really like the specs for RAM and hard drive

Specifications:
Core i5-520M 2.4GHz (2.933GHz Turbo), 3MB Cache, Dual Core Processor
14.1" WXGA+ 1440x900 Resolution LED Display
Intel HD Graphics Chipset
2GB PC3-8500 (single stick, one slot free)
Toshiba 120GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
DVD-RW/CD-RW
Intel Gigabit Ethernet
Wireless 802.11 b/g/n
WWAN Upgradeable
Bluetooth
Wireless
Fingerprint Reader
ThinkLight
Multi-touch Trackpad and Ultranav
2 USB, 1 USB Always On, 1 USB/eSATA, VGA Out, DisplayPort Out, RJ45
Windows 7 Professional Installed (with Key)
3.91 lbs Light (with battery)!
21.1 mm x 337mm x 241.5mm (0.83" x 14.84" x 9.51") Dimensions

Total: $970


This package includes:
Lenovo T410s 2912-23U
6-Cell Battery (4.8 Hours)
AC Adapter
Manual, Documentation, Original Box

 

You get one free slot for RAM, so the upgrade is really easy and the Intel x18m SSDs aren't so much expensive either for a replacement, which is really easy with Thinkpad laptops.
I just want to add, that the T410s with it's 1,8kg is reaaaaly slick, thin and light. It is impossible to see it on pictures or videos. However, the battery life is 2-3 hours.

 

unkownrebel,
As Tulip mentioned both the ram and hard drive are easily user upgradeable therefore not a big deal. What kind of warranty are you getting? I would be more concerned about that.

 

i got the deal for $930 with shipping.
The warranty is only one year tho.

 

I am not sure with the refurbished models, but you could try upgrading you warranty after you receive your model if you wish. Normally it is possible even online.