New T61 Impressions / Wireless Problem

Greetings everyone. I recently purchased the ThinkPad T61. My specs are 14" SXGA+, NVidia, 2 GB RAM and 160 GB HD.

I initially ordered the Dell M1330, a configuration that cost $1,700. But then I saw the 20% discount offered by Lenovo and decided to take advantage of it. I ending up paying $1070 for mine and felt good about the deal.

I am a writer with a couple of books already published and selling quite well, so you can imagine my primary use for the laptop will be more writing. So my thinking was that the ThinkPad's legendary keyboard and its higher resolution screen (relative to the M1330's 1280 x 800) would be advantageous.

I may be a bit different than many people in this forum in that I actively prefer standard screen over wide screen. To me it looks much, much better. Wide screens may be great for spreadsheets or watching DVDs, but the standard screen is definitely better for writing. And if you were to calculate 1400 x 1050 and compare that to 1440 x 900, you'll see it actually offers more screen real estate. It was a lucky thing for me that the 20% offer was only applicable for the SXGA+ models.

I am a fast touch typist. After some time using the ThinkPad, I actually wasn't that impressed by the keyboard. It's a good keyboard, of course, but many laptops have decent keyboards nowadays, so the difference between it and its competitors wasn't great. Also, I personally did not like the Fn key at the lower left corner. That's where my finger seeks the Ctrl key.

I also didn't like the fan being always on. Yes, it's quiet. And yes, I can tune it out. Still, I've had laptops that could be absolutely silent rather than quiet. When the application and data are completely loaded into memory and there's no great load on the CPU, the fan and the hard drive spin down, and then you get true, total blissful silence. I hope someone will update the fan control software for the T61 soon. To me that would make a good laptop great.

I soon ran into the wireless problem that other people in this forum have also mentioned. The wireless LED would go off, requiring a reboot to restore functionality.

My first attempt to solve this problem was to use the BSA to select a minimal installation, and let the machine restore itself to factory condition with minimal crapware.

It took quite a few hours. At the end of the process I had a slimmer installation of Vista. I tried using it for a while, but soon the problem returned. The first time that the LED went off, I pressed Fn-F5 and saw that the machine thought the wireless connection was still active. I turned it off, and then back on. This fixed it for the time being.

Minutes later, it went off again. This time Fn-F5 failed to resurrect it. Needless to say, I was not a happy camper. I contemplated the 15% restocking fee and felt depressed. What now?

I decided to attempt a clean install of XP. As many people have already noted, it's not exactly an easy task, but eventually I got all the right drivers in place, and Device Manager had no more question marks.

It's been a day since I completed the downgrade. So far, the wireless LED hasn't gone off by itself. I'm praying it worked and things will more or less remain reliable from this point on.

 

Any difference with the 'fan always running' issue after switching to XP?

 

'Fraid not. It still seems to be on all the time.

I understand this may not be a big deal for others. Perhaps I've been spoiled by laptops that can be completely silent.

 

What wireless card do you have? The Intel one or the Thinpad/Atheros one?

 

BTW, I did consider the MacBook and the MacBook Pro briefly. I had been a Mac user for many years. But, I am now thoroughly used to the convenience of the right mouse button, which I cannot have with the MB and MBP unless I attach a USB mouse. Holding down a modifier key to temporarily switch the trackpad button from left to right is still a clumsy solution, so this was a deal breaker for me.

 

I have the Intel wireless card. I understand Atheros has better range / signal pickup, but even without it my T61 is able to connect better than my Sony T-150, perhaps due to better design (i.e. plastic instead of aluminum for the display lid, etc.).

 

Have you downloaded the most up to date drivers?

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-67256

After using the Intel wifi solution for a couple of years in different computers, I have been totally unsatisfied with them. There's always some problem that occurs...maybe i'm just unlucky, but using the Atheros cards, I've had no problems.

Are you using the Thinkvantage Access Connections software or just the Windows wireless manager? If you are using Access Connections, try disabling it and see if you still have the shut off problem.

 

I do like the shadow effect in Vista and in OS X, so I installed WindowFX in my T61. Its "Spank-Big" effect looks great.

I also like the idea of indexed search in Vista and OS X, so I installed Copernic as well.

 

I'm a minimalist. I won't have anything in my ThinkPad unless I have a reason that feels truly compelling to me. So no, I'm not using ThinkVantage Access Connections at all.

On that same note of minimalism, I grudgingly installed the ThinkVantage Update only because it was the easiest way to get rid of one of the question marks in Device Manager.

Thanks for the tip - if I still encounter problems, at least I'll know I can solve it by switching over to Atheros. That's good to know!

 

The Intel wireless cards used to be flaky.
It's not the case anymore.
I actually prefer the newest Intel wireless chip as it supposed to be cooler running as compared to the Atheros based cards.

 

Use this small and fast program to dial down the speed of the fans.

 

=/ why would you consider the restocking fee at all? You call them say the wireless card isn't working properly, if they can't fix it over the phone you tell them they sold you a defective machine. Send it back and contact your credit card company explain the situation and they should take care of it.

 

Can't wait to try it out! Thanks big Dave.

 

Then why did you get a discrete graphics card instead of the integrated solution?
Intergrated -->longer lasting battery charge, cooler overall system temps --> (slower turning fans)...

 

I was dreading the potential hassle of dealing with Lenovo customer service. Not to mention the time wasted in handling the return.

By contrast, I had an extremely positive experience with HP. A few months ago I ordered the tx1000 tablet, only to discover that the build quality of my unit was not great. It squeaked a lot whenever I put my hands on it to type. When I called HP about this, they were very quick to authorize the RMA, paid for shipping, with minimal hassle. I was really impressed, and haven't stopped recommended them as a company to friends ever since.

 

Yep, all true, and all factors I considered at length. In the end, the following thoughts prevailed:

1) I may want to play a game or two to blow off steam between writing sessions;

2) There are some really great screen savers out there that take advantage of 3D acceleration;

3) The ThinkPad runs cooler than other laptops even with discrete instead of integrated;

4) I don't travel much, so the battery life is less of a concern;

5) Even a fanatical minimalist must temper his minimalism every now and then.

 

XH61,

Have you seen this thread?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=165264

granted they get nowhere on the issue either

 

Yes. The jury's still out on my ThinkPad, but I'm hoping a week from now I'll be able to say, yes, I had the same problem too, but once I swapped out Vista for XP, the problem went away - so at least I can recommend the downgrade as a viable solution.

Without a doubt, XP runs quite well in a 2 GB configuration. After startup, it consumes about 300 MB memory, leaving 1.7 GB available. Everything seems quite efficient and snappy.

One of the minor annoyances when using Vista was that sometimes when I moved or copied large files around, it would pause for what seemed like a long time, supposedly calculating the time needed. That's definitely not an issue with XP.

 

A philosopher and a writer, huh?

Try that SpeedFan util mentioned above - I blew hours last night using it trying to reduce the incessant hum of my desktop PC cooling fans, to no avail, I might add, but fun trying nonetheless.

 

Um... has anyone actually tried it on a T61 and gotten it to work, or will I be the first to brave the unknown?

For some of my desktops I underclock the CPU, disable the fan, and let it cool passively by air convection. Works very well for me, but not something I'd recommend for the faint of heart.

 

Well, here's the result: SpeedFan is able to report on the temperature measurements of the T61, but there is no obvious way to change the fan speed that I could discern. Maybe more knowledgeable individuals will have better luck or greater success.

 

Launch SpeedFan 4.32.

Click Configure button.

Select the Speeds Tab.

Select the CPU fan Speed option (or the option associated with your CPU - it may not unfortunately indicate by itself which one associates with your CPU but you can check them all, for now, (if you've more than one) if you wish, then deselect later, when you know which is associated with your cpu) with your mouse and then put a check mark in the little "Automatically variated" box at the bottom of the Speeds Tab.

Do this for all the fan Speed options in the Speeds Tab (as mentioned above)

Click OK to depart the Speeds Tab.

Back on the Readings Tab, select "Automatic fan speed"

Notice the various fan speeds (btw, there may only be one - on my desktop pc, there were five, but thinkpads may only have one) in the Speeds section of the Readings tab begin to drop (if you've configured correctly, that is). The various fan speeds drop gradually, from 100% to 90%, etc. Or there may just be one fan speed - i.e the one for your cpu.

AFAIK, that's how you configure the fan to regulate itself using SpeedFan.

btw, it didn't do much for my PC's CPU fan noise and since my thinkpad's fan is barely audible I didn't bother to implement any of the above there.

 

On the plus side, so far the wireless hasn't shut down by itself.

This T61 is rather enjoyable to use. As many people have already remarked, it's well built and feels like a solid, durable piece of equipment.

Another factor that makes it pleasant to work on the T61 is not unique to Lenovo: the ClearType technology from Microsoft. The razor-sharpness of on-screen text are easy on the eyes - to me far more preferable to OS X font rendering, which may be faithful to the printed page, but ends up looking rather blurry on-screen. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

What happens on my T61 is that I launch SpeedFan, click "Configure" and select the Speeds tab, only to see that the tab contains no options at all - it's totally blank.

 

I surfed the web on wireless this morning for a couple of hours. Again, no problems at all. The wireless connection remained reliably connected with nary a hiccup. Perhaps it is true that downgrading from Vista to XP is a good solution to the problem. If I can make it through the entire weekend without the issue manifesting itself, I think that will give me the comfort level that the troubles are over.

As a bonus, everything runs faster in XP compared to Vista. It's almost like getting a CPU upgrade or the Turbo Memory for free.

 

Another observation: The T61's screen is clear and bright for text, but not so great for watching DivX videos. The glossy screens of other laptops offer much blacker blacks and superior contrast. LED-illuminated screens also offer greater brightness levels more suitable for viewing movies and TV programs.

In this respect the MacBook Pro and the Dell XPS M1330 would be superior. However, the M1330 has the decidedly unremarkable 1280 x 800 resolution, and both cost twice as much as my ThinkPad for similar configuration.

Come to think of it, I rarely watch DivX movies on a laptop. I prefer using a DVD player that has built-in support for DivX - very inexpensive nowadays.

The higher resolution of the SXGA+ screen should come in handy for reading magazines in Acrobat format, or scanned comic books. I'll probably give both a try over the weekend.

 

Since you've downgraded to XP, what happens to the Intel Turbo Memory (assuming that it was installed on your T61)? Is Windows XP able to use the Turbo Memory in any way to your benefit?

Just curious as I am looking into getting a T61 myself and running XP on it. Here in Canada, the T61 is sold with 1Gb Turbo Memory so I am curious as to what benefits, if any, it provides under XP.

 

I didn't order the Turbo Memory. If I were a database developer, it would probably come in handy big time. But, for writing, its benefits are really not that significant.

I don't think XP can take advantage of Turbo Memory. If you have no choice but to buy it as part of the package, then perhaps it can be seen as a bit of "future-proofing" - that is, when the time is right to upgrade back to Vista (perhaps in a few years), you'll have something Vista can tap into to deliver performance benefits.

 

XP does not support Turbo Memory. In fact you have to disable the Turbo Memory with a patch.

 

I thought as much... but you need a patch for that? You mean a hotfix or update from Microsoft?

Can you just disable the Turbo Memory in the notebook's BIOS (as someone mentioned was possible for the T61) so that XP doesn't even see the Turbo Memory hardware?

Thanks.

 

BTW, another laptop I thought of buying instead of the T61 is a 14" Acer Aspire.

Now some of you will probably say it's not as well built as the ThinkPad, and I would probably agree with you, but its strongest point is price: on sale at $600 from Best Buy for the 2 GB RAM and 160 GB HD configuration. At such a low price, even if it breaks down in a year and I have to replace it, it would still be like a $1,800 laptop that depreciates over three years.

Ultimately I decided against it, but had I gone in that direction, I could have gotten a glossy screen (which I prefer), GMA 950 which offers the possibility of running OSx86 well, no wireless shutdown issues, a keyboard with Ctrl in the right place, and perhaps a fan that can spin down.

Of course, it may have a whole other set of problems. Such is life.

 

That would be nice and convenient - but I see no hint of such an option in the BIOS. I think the patch is still a necessity.

 

You probably could disable it through the BIOS, but here is the link for the patch from Lenovo.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-68244

 

FWIIW tp41fancontrol works fine with my T61p and allows you to define your own temperature thresholds for turning on and stepping up the fan.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=153962

 

It doesn't seem to work on my T61 - but thanks for trying!

 

Conclusion

The downgrade experiment is a great success. The wireless LED no longer shuts off by itself. No idea if the problem was Vista or the Vista-compatible wireless driver, and don't really care. This machine runs XP very well, and it's easy to add the Vista functionalities I like, such as indexed search, window shadows, etc.

If I had to do it over again, purchasing with the 20% discount, I would probably get just 1 GB - because that's plenty for XP. I may also choose integrated video instead of discreet. Although it may be great to play games on this machine, I've been way too busy for that.

To me, the primary benefit of integrated video is battery power conservation. I guesstimate I should be able to get 4 hours out of my 6-cell battery. This is a substantial advantage.

 

For TP Fan Control, you might try this version HERE as the version on SourceForge is rather old and probably won't work with a T61 without some tweaking. From what I've read, the newer versions of TPFC work normally on T61's so it might be worth a try. Just remember that the version linked here runs as a service, so if you see something extra in your running services list named TPFanControl or the like, then you'll know what it is.

 

That did it! Thank you Ultracow!

This ThinkPad has become a joy to use.

 

XH61, I am looking into buying a similar (non-widescreen) T61 also. Do you have any firsthand info as to how long the battery lasts when using the laptop for writing and wireless? Also, do you have the 6 or 9 cell battery? Thanks.

 

Sorry, I've been away for a few weeks.

I have a 6-cell battery. I like the fact that it doesn't stick out the back. It gives me a bit less than 3 hours of battery life. That's admittedly not so great, so I still have a tendency to use it plugged in as much as possible.

By the way, just an FYI, my T61 has a few quirks when running XP. Pay no attention to the following unless you are very nit-picky:

1) If I press the suspend key, and close the lid before it's done suspending, it may reboot by itself, losing any unsaved data in the process. The rather unsatisfying solution is to always wait until the small moon-shape LED comes on before closing the lid.

2) Sometimes, when it resumes from suspend, it will set the screen brightness to maximum, thus requiring that you manually bring it down via Fn-key presses. It's a little annoying.

3) The 3 keys on the lower left corner don't have as good tactile feedback when you press down on them as the rest of the keyboard. However, the difference is minor and I doubt anyone other than me will notice this.

4) Even though I can manually control the fan, the T61 still makes a bit of noise even with the fan off. Most people should be OK with it, but the noise level is slightly over 30 decibels, which I still feel is still a bit much. But, again, most people will probably never notice.

On the upside, the solid build and the terrific keyboard are continuing to prove their value. And I am slowly adjusting to the (in my opinion) poorly thought out placement of the Fn key.

 

My next experiment will probably be to attempt OSx86 installation, and then try Macvidia.