Not as confident about ThinkPad build after seeing a HP dv2500t

Today, I happened to drop by Fry's Electronics and give the HP dv2500t a touch test. And believe me, that thing is solid. I'm pushing and poking all over the place, there isn't flex at all in the plastic chassis. I'm surprised no salesmen came to bother me about my little quality test. With the exception of ripples in the screen when I pushed from the lid, that laptop's build was top-notch. Of course little things like the flexy keyboard and bad touchpad are annoying.

What's disconcerting is that I can pull and tug at my T61 and find flex. For instance, I can pull at the palm rest where the expresscard slot is, or I can play with the speaker panel above the Ultrabay. There are inconsistencies where my lid is connected to the screen bezel. One bump here, indents where the screen latches are- not much, but when I see some HP that doesn't have any problems where the glossy lid is attached to the bezel, I have to wonder what the ThinkPad hype is all about.

I know that the rollcage is what gives the ThinkPad is rigidity and toughness, but does the exterior have to be that crappy? I'm not even talking aesthetics here- the HP feels stronger than the ThinkPad, even if it has no skeleton. I can still see why a ThinkPad would stand up to more stress and whatnot with the rollcage, but I think it sucks that Lenovo can't even beat HP in exterior quality.

 

maybe none of us likes to admit it, but it could be entirely possible that another brand laptop is durable than the T series

 

Man, Fry's Electronics is sooo sweet I wish we had them here in Florida...

I have to say I did not notice that with the dv2000t my friend has, but I never really gave it a through look. I'll have to when he gets back to school.

 

Oh, there certainly are more durable laptops than the T series, and everyone knows it. The GammaTech (formerly Twinhead) Durabook, Panasonic Toughbook, Itronix laptops, and even the Dell Latitude ATG D620 are semi-rugged class notebooks that are WAY more durable than the T series.

 

sorry for giving out my opinon... i didnt know my opinion was pointless.

And the other notebooks, besides the dell, most of them are either very expensive (tough book, its like a brick) , or not many ordinary people know about.

 

My bad, that's not what I meant. I meant you saying that its possible that some laptops could be more durable doesn't change the fact that the dv2500t shouldn't be more durable as it is cheaper price-wise and consumer-grade.

 

No problem at all

yea i thought about the class, the consumer grade... its a home/office use laptop, not a business laptop.

 

I agree there are notebooks other than the Thinkpad that can be of better build and solid feel. I have always found the Lenovo 3000 N200 series to be of much better quality than my Thinkpad R51. I have checked them out at Circuit City as well as Office Depot and they always seemed really solid built with almost zero keyboard flex which I just cannot stand in a laptop and is usually the first thing I check for. For such a low priced laptop I was really surprised by the Lenovo 3000.

 

HPs definitely make some good laptops - I really like the color scheme / styling of their Special Editions - but the fact that they are not really customizable to "high end" (aka, T7300/2GB/7200 RPM) from the start is what turned me off. Also, while the 12 cell is great it is also somewhat bulky too.

What I'd kill for a WSXGA+ (1680x1050), 2GHz Core 2 Duo, 2 GB, 7200 RPM, nVidia/ATi (nVidia preferably) HP Special Edition... /sigh...

I had a HP DV5035NR before my T60... it was pretty sturdy also...

 

Yea, you have to get a 17in model if you want to start getting some high end components like a wsxga screen and 8600gs.

My mom has the AMD equivilent to the 9500t (9000z or something like that). It's a solid machine, but only came with a WXGA+ screen which is just lame on a 17in model. Bonus being; it was dirt cheap.

Oh, and to the OP. If you want to feel better, just come fondle my 3 year old hp zt3000. Everything squeeks, dvd drive misalligned, AC jack broken, paint worn off all over the place from where my hands rest.....

 

Yep, HP's upgrades suck. The screen resolutions are way too low, which is why I sought assylum from business laptops in the first place. That exterial build quality kills me though.

 

Yeah I think in general, while thinkpads are still probably of the best build short of field-type notebooks (which I put in different categories, but no doubt they have superior builds so can't say ANY), but the gap between thinkpads and the competition has closed considerably.

Guess it's arguable whether thin flexy plastic over rigid skeleton is better or worse than more rigid plastic and magnesium lid (before even considering wifi reception), but I personally think having a flexible "skin" and strong frame is the best combination. Provides for more give in the shell, more absorption of impact, more likely to bend than break, and still has rigid roll cage underneath lid and case for sturdiness. It's just a psychological thing- we like feeling the sturdiness on the outside, and don't like pushing, pulling, and poking different parts of our notebooks and seeing them flex and bend.

But regardless of whether you think thinkpad quality has slipped or not lately, no question the competition is catching (has caught up) imo. Except for certain brands, even keybaords don't seem so bad anymore like they used to vs those of the thinkpad.

 

What laptop has rigid plastic and magnesium lid?

 

I also think the flexible, resilient skin over the magnesium frame is the best solution. I don't really get why people think rigid skin means it's well built or going to be tough.... just because it's hard doesn't mean it's strong. I mean, a pane of glass is extremely hard and rigid, but a comparatively soft and flexible plank of plywood will take thousands of times more punishment. I just care about the tensile strength etc of the plastic exterior, it wouldn't bother me how hard and rigid it is.

 

It's the perception of the overall quality.
There are a couple of display Thinkpads sitting at my local BestBuy.
I've spent close to an hour during my last visit checking out every notebook on the shelf.
In the whole time no one, not a single person, stopped by the ThinkPads to take a look at them, while there were plenty checking out the HPs, Acers and Sonys.
Can't blame the people.
On top of the unattractive, dull design, the ThinkPads also "featured" the dimmest of the bunch displays.
The dull design is not a concern for a business notebook, but the second rate displays are inexcusable.

 

We don't even have any ThinkPads at our BestBuy. They probably took them away because they were just collecting dust.

You say dull, IBM says "Japanese lunchbox"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#Design%20history

 

Maybe see how solid that HP is after a drop test onto a hard floor? Probably shatter because of the hard plastic. I'm sure HP is good for consumer use where you just take it around the house and maybe on vacation but if your on the move a lot, then I'd rather have something that can handle being roughed up.

I agree with the flexible plastic being a "buffer" between the world, having something with no give isn't a good idea when theres a possibility of a impact. In the crash test video stuff came off the thinkpad, it flexed and twisted but it was still ticking when laying on the floor since the roll cage did its thing.

If that was a HP dv laptop I bet it would broke into a few pieces, send the hard drive flying across the room or something funny like that.

To bad they didn't throw a few laptops on that ramp and watch all the carnage

 

Thinkpads new vs thinkpads old.

 

Didn't ThinkPads always have roll cages?

 

My girlfriend has a dv2000t. Feels solid, but terrible build quality. The biggest problem was the USB ports being way too tight, to the point where plugging something in required so much pressure that it weakened the internal structure. Motherboard also went bad after 6 months.

 

Well, first of all, people shopping for a notebook at BestBuy are the iPod crowd looking for features like a shiny teenie-bopper imprint finishes. The feel of the keyboard will take about 15th place....right behind how sturdy the hinges are.....well below something like how many megapixels the webcam has.

As for the displays, a matte screen is hardly inexcusable. Yeah, it won't awe your friends when your aquarium screensaver comes on, but when you'll all sitting outdoors at Starbucks and they're squinting and angling their screens down you can smirk and shake your head.

 

I had a brief conversation with a girl once about buying a laptop for college. She said she wanted a Macbook because the white was "pretty." Instantly, I felt knowing her became burdensome.

I always get a kick out of the salesman at my local BB who tell people "64-bit is TWO TIMES the power of 32-bit!" Then the customer says, "Alright, I'll get a Turion X2."

 

First case roll cages in case- r,z,t 60's, first roll cage in lid- R (14.1only), and t 61.

 

I think they'll be the ones shaking their heads.
My matte (good) but dim (bad) FlexView is not even bright enough for a windowless well-lit office.

 

I'd agree with her if she's said that in reference to the LED back-lit screens.
White is pretty!

 

LED backlighting is only on Macbook Pro's, which are good laptops by comparison to the garbage that is the Macbook, which most wanna-be-chic teens get because they're too poor for a Macbook Pro. So am I.

 

LED should go mainstream in 2008.

 

One thing about that HP dv2500, the case may seem solid but in addition to that screen ripple, that screen will flex like a playing card. So will the Sony SZ, but I doubt the HP the same quality materials. Also, after a little use, that shiny HP finish is going to look bad.

 

You know that for sure or just speculating? The imprint finish isn't supposed to scratch easily.

 

The Dell m1330 and some Sonys offer LED screens. I'd agree it's the wave of the future.

 

ugh all this over- anyalzing of laptops makes me want to throw up lol

 

Be careful about that. Consumer grade? Yes, cheaper? No. For the SAME price on HP's site I basically have 1 less year of warranty, IMO a worse look, a lower resolution, probably a slower brand of HDD, LOTS of crapware installed, an who knows about support.

 

Be careful about that. 5400 rpm HD's are the same, Lenovo also has crapware installed, and IMO you're totally wrong about the look.

 

No, that's something personal.

My opinion: There is no better-looking notebook than the ThinkPads.

 

its too rectangular, its the volvos of laptops lol

 

I had a dv2000 for one day a few weeks ago. It feels like a big piece of carmelized plastic. They went so crazy going gloss all over, they even glossed the thumbpad.

Have had the T61 a couple weeks now and while there are some build issues, it is head and shoulders ahead of HP's offering.

 

Hence the over-usage of "IMO."

 

Judging a laptops quality based on how "solid" it feels reminds me of those audiophiles that judge the quality of audio equipment by how heavy it is.

 

yeah i agree with you. volvos of laptop

 

if you carry your laptop a lot then you will realize the importance of built quality.

 

You're right, I've seen many people buying their laptops and just keep it at home, because they concern about dropping !!!!

The other laptops may have more features and better look than the thinkpads, that's why they attract the crowd (those are people leaning toward the look not the quality).
until this point I still think thinpads is the most quality notebook out there. concerning my experience of dropping.

I wonder if Lenovo knows about the weakness of the screen, If they do something to improve it, the thinkpads will be unbeatable. Features are not my big concern

 

No, I've seen it.