OCZ Vertex SSD for T61P

Hi all,
I know there has been a general discussion about SSD's but I wondered whether anyone here had experience with an OCZ Vertex SSD in a Thinkpad T6x. If so, were there any problems? Was the performance improvement worth the investment? Are there better models to consider?
Experience based advice appreciated!

 

The T61 SATA Controller can only do up to 150MBps. The Vertex is faster than 150MBps. Some drives don't like it when you throttle them. I don't know about the Vertex because I've never had one. If OCZ wants to send me one, I'd be more than happy to test it out. The Samsung is a solid choice and doesn't sputter when you write, which is probably more important than the speed. It offers very fast seek times. There's both MLC and SLC Samsungs. I'm sure Jon will be along to give you the low-down.

 

Thanks ZaZ, the issues you raise are exactly why I was hoping to hear from someone who had actually tried one in a T61 ...

Do the Samsung drives come larger than 128 GB?

 

I have been summoned, and shall speak.

Be sure to read the SSD effects link in my signature. This is based on a Hitachi 5k320 HDD and Samsung 64GB SLC SSD, but the general results will be similar for many drives.

The best deal in SSDs right now is probably the Samsung 2.5" MLC drive from Geeks.com for $133. This is the 2.5" version of the SSD that Lenovo currently offers (they used to offer the very slightly better SLC drive that I have). There is also a new 256GB Samsung that should be available shortly; however, it's speeds are beyond the T61P's ability, and it has a street price of >$600.

The OCZ vertex is a fine choice as well. It is one of the newer SSDs with the Indillix controller. It will perform well and is not subject to stutter. Other options include SSDs with Intel controllers (e.g. x-25M) or Samsung controllers (all Samsung SSDs and a few rebadged models from OCZ [e.g. Summit] and G-Skill). I recommend you avoid at all costs any drive with a J-Micron controller (even if they have two in "RAID" [i.e. the OCZ Apex].

You may also want to consider swapping your old HDD into the ultrabay if you require more than 64GB of storage. If you need lots of storage AND good performance, the best option is a small SSD (i.e. <= 80GB) for your OS and programs AND a large (e.g. 500GB 5400RPM) HDD for data storage (videos, pictures, music, etc.).

 

i have the t61p with the ocz vertex and it's fantastic. I haven't any problems with the SSD. To me it's worth the investment. I get a happy face when combined with W7, how fast the thing boots up!

 

Thanks both alphakenny1 & jonlumpkin (seems like I've had cause to thank the latter more than once now!) for your input. I am thinking seriously of combining the OCZ Vertex with the 64 bit Win7 RC (& 8 GB of Ram) on my T61P so your experience is particularly relevant. Glad to learn that neither of you is experiencing the "throttling" that Pascal TTH describes in the thread referred to above.

I was contemplating getting the Vertex 250GB but will look at the Samsungs as well. The other alternative was to try the Seagate Momentus 7200.4 500GB but the speed of the Vertex is a strong draw for me. Reports of them being "choked" in Thinkpads were what motivated this post ...

 

When you bought Vertex, did you flash it for new Firmware. I had a lot of problem with my 120gb Vertex when I bought mine.

It couldn't install Windows OS on it. I thought the SSD was damaged so I return it for replacement

 

Decided, after endless research, to order the Vertex 120GB SSD & a Seagate Momentus 500GB (for the UltraBay). If anyone is interested, I can report back on my setup & initial usage impressions.

 

Anyone knows whats the SATA speed limitation on X301 ? Im thinking of replcaing my 128 MLC SSD Samsung for something bigger and faster. Speaking of which what do you think will be the best drive out there to plug into x301 in terms of performance / volume (in that particular order).

Also Im a bit ocnfused with the choice of manufacturer. For example OCZ is not so well known as ppl like Samsung or Intel, all things being equal I would of course prefer SSD manufactured by biggest firms out there. Is there a qualityu concern at all with respect to manufactueres like OCZ and other ?

Many thanks !

 

elvair,
Not 100% on this but I believe all contemporary Thinkpads are affected by the SATA 1 speed limitations.

The research I did suggested that the best drives to get were those with the Intilinx (SP?) controlers - of which Intel or OCZ Vertex were the pick. Consensus seemed to be that Intel were the best quality - but are also the most expensive (& come only in small capacities) - while OCZ were the best value for money. YMMV. A number of people pointed specifically to the support available with an OCZ drive (check out: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/)

 

The ocz vertex is one of the few ocz drives that are worth using. The other is a rebadged samsung. All others I wouldn't get.

 

Well, obviously people have their own opinions & experiences but, based on the research I've done over the last few weeks, the OCZ Vertex & the Intel drives are clearly the SSD's of choice at the moment. Of course, that could well change as soon as the next round of product releases hits the streets ... but that's always true of tech products.

 

No, current generation of Thinkpads has SATA-II Speed. See my attached benchmark with X200

 

This is all good news. I hope to get a 120GB OCZ Vertex in combination with my x200t once it arrives.

I can't wait.

 

This is all very intersting a couple of questions here :

1) Mullenbooger - is that really you on your avatar ?

2) 1 thing i forgot to mention is that price is not an issue, so basically the question is to get best thing out there, which would be fully utilized by x301 capabilities

3)

That link doesnt really address anything, just point to Lenovo web-site ? ... ?

Thanks a lot for your help !

So far it looks like that Intel would be my choice, when they issue disks of higher capacity. OCZ I would get since its not a major manufacturer out there.

Any other opinions ? Still not clear what is the limitation placed by x301's SATA on SSD performance and what are the implication of those limitations if any ....

Many thanks !

 

The Intel SSD is arguably the best SSD at the moment. The other interesting SSD is the soon to be released Samsung SSD, although I'm not sure if it's available in a 1.8" form factor (the only type the x301 takes). Intel already sells a 160GB version of the x-18M, it's just that Lenovo doesn't stock any.

Aside from the 1.8" form factor, I am unaware of any limits on the x301's SATA interface.

 

jonlumpkin,

I saw some ebay sellers have the Samsung's 256GB SATA-2 availabale.

According to you, Samsung has not officially or largely laughed this SSD?

I checked newegg etc., and cannnot find anywhere to get it except EBAY.

I am interested in geting this one.

By the way, i also wrote an letter to Sandisk to ask when will the G3 series will be available. They said dont know till now, but still schedule to sell around Mid 2009. The G3 ssd is also attractive for its read speed of 200 MB/S and write speed of 140 MB/S. It's not so fast compared with Samsung's latest's 256/128/64 MLC modle, but for the 120 GB G3 modle, it costs 250, which is a real good deal.

Anyway, if anyone have such information, please share here.


Also, anyone knows that if the new samsung's 256GB model will suffer from stuttering problems or internal fragmentation due to MLC??

I am concerned about this.

Lenovo currently offers the 64GB MLC model, i think they should be identical except for the speed.


zephir,

This is the test results of Intel's 64GB SLC X-25E.

Samsung's 128GB looks good.

Can you tell me where to get this one??

Thanks.

 

Samsung has generally not had any problem with stuttering. I'm not sure of the exact tricks that Samsung did with their new controller to achieve their new speeds (roughly double the sequential throughput of the earlier models), but if the method is similar to the Intel controller (i.e. parallel reads and write combining), I would expect it to have similar issues with internal fragmentation.

The memory on most SSDs is actually identical (SLC models excepted). What sets them apart is the quality of the controller (Samsung ≈ Intel > Indillix > JMicron) and how aggressive it is with parallel activity (Intel ≈ new Samsung > Indillix > JMicron > old Samsung).

Additionally, Samsung tends to only sell SSDs through OEM channels. As such, you are unlikely to find Samsung branded drives at a place like Newegg (although they did carry my 1.8" SLC SSD for a time). Therefore, if you want the new Samsung SSD you will need to order it off eBay, or wait for a rebadged version from another manufacturer (e.g. OCZ, G-Skill, et. al.).

 

Very glad to learn the latest generation of Thinkpads are no longer constrained by a 150MBs/second speed rating. That goes a long way to make the higher $/GB price tag of the Intel drive more palatable. Hopefully some competition from Samsung will persuade them to release some larger capacity models. Will be interested to read the reviews of the Samsung 256GB when/if it hits the retail market...

 

Samsung makes me really confused!!

This is the models listed on their website:

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productList.do?fmly_id=161

According to their website, the 64 GB MLE version's max read speed is 200 MB/s, and write speed is 120 MB/s.

Howerver, see the geek's link:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=MMCRE64G5MPP&cat=HDD

This is the same model, MMCRE64G5MPP, but the geeks claims its reading is only 90 or so.

Same for the 128 GB MLC version. I asked a realiable ebay seller guru, and accoding to his reply, MMDOE28G5MPP also only reads for around 100 MB/s, but not 220 as claimed by Samsung.

This is his original reply:

"SSD are (wrongly) rated by sequential transfer rates. As anyone who knows the real facts will tell you, this is not what counts for performance.

All Samsung 128gb SSD are rated at 70~80mbps write and 90mbps to 100mbps Read. However, in the performance graphs you see where the Samsung 128GB is blowing away the competiiton by up to 800%, those drives (such as the OCZ Core series or Patriot Warp) are rated at 175mbps, but Samsung is almost 800% faster in some tests.

Sequential speed is how many mb the drive is capable of at max such as copying a single 8GB file from one drive or partition to the other, however this tells you absolutely nothing about random read/write nor multitasking (which is more important)

The tests in my auction are older showing performance of a 128GB Samsung, not the 256GB Samsung which came out later, however their actually very close in performance because random read/write multi-tasking is about the same. The 256GB will transfer large files in less time than the 128GB, but 99% of normal computer use does not involve large files, it involves many smaller files & random read write operations.
In fact, (& I don't know why this is) but the 128GB Samsung which is rated at 80/100 is actually bench testing slightly faster than the 256GB 200/220 Samsung on every day multi-tasking and random read/write performance under HDD tests.

256GB is faster at copying large files though, but I have found that the 128GB really does transfer large files at very close to it's 100MBps level, but the 256GB Samsung is only around 130mbps to 150mbps with large files (sequentially) on many computers.

Oddly enough, when I use the 256GB Samsung on my 5 year old Dell Optiplex Desktop, it flys off the chart nearly reaching 200MBPS."

Anyone has any idea??

 

are you sure about that ?

 

No thats not me in the avatar. That would be Michael Strahan, formerly on my NY Giants.

The new thinkpads, t500, t400, w500, and others should not be sataII constrained. The 256gb Samsung SSd can be bought thru dell or ebay as far as I know and has the faster sequential read/write speed. The 64-128gb samsungs have the slower sequential speed.

 

lol @ that avatar question.

 

If you're interested in Samsung 128GB SSD, the only way to get it is through ebay.

Also, I'm considering selling my own Samsung 128GB SSD. If you're interested, PM me.

 

I think you're mistaken. I attached a picture with the benchmark of the Intel X25-M drive. The link on X200 is a sponsored link with ad to generate revenue for notebookreview.

 

Could you add a benchmark of the Samsung 128 GB MLC SSD?

 

Here you go.

 

I understand the X301 uses a 7.5mm optical drive. Care to check what connector it's using on the back of the optical drive?

Being an ICH9M chipset, I would assume a SATA connector. In which case it might just be feasible to shoehorn in a 2.5" SATA SSD via a cut down 9.5mm SATA optical drive bay caddy. If the SSD's outer shell can be removed to reveal a core that is 7.5mm or thinner.

Not sure how many X301 owners would be willing to sacrifice their optical drives, but I'm curious anyway.

 

Jon - or anyone else for that matter - can you point me towards some recent reviews of the Samsung SSD's? Google isn't bringing up much that's recent.
thanks.

 

The forums, especially the SSD thread has lots of info on the Samsungs. Though I don't know which "old" Samsung jon is referring to... from what I have experienced, the older SLC/MLC Samsung with 100/80 or 90/70 MB/s R/W speeds have excellent controllers and are still better than current Intel, Indilinx and Jmicron. Even better are Mtrons and Memorights which don't experience any of the problems exhibited by the current crop of MLC drives.

 

I think the intel, indilinx and newer Samsungs are better than the older samsungs (although they are still very good). Jmicrons are still budget/not very good.

 

I'm curious why you think it's better than the older Samsungs? I have yet to see the degradation problems and such with any of the older SLC drives, despite slower sequential speeds. Also, more than one person believe that even the "slower" on paper speeds of the Mtrons and Memorights seem faster than the newer drives.

 

Impression I got from someone on the SSD thread. I think someone had a samsung mlc, intel, and a few others. I think he said the samsung was fast but not the fastest. And I think there was that huge anandtech article that looked at a bunch of jmicrons, intel, vertex, etc. and the intel was still the fastest. Vertex was also very good.

I was under the impression that all MLC drives have degradation issues. I think the intel and vertex have faster small file read/write than the older samsungs (but id have to go and check out the benches)

 

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3535