On Build Quality, Choices, and more.

Hello guys.

I am looking to join the family of satisfied ThinkPad owners soon. I was wondering how big the quality differed on the old ThinkPads vs the new Lenovo versions.

Keep in mind that this laptop needs to last basically indefinetley. I anticipate having this probably for four years. At that point, God willing, it will become a secondary machine. It will be used for gaming (BF2, Oblivion, Source-based games) and listening to audio, as well as typing papers and Adobe CS3 work.

With this in mind, I am currently considering three different options. I want to spend the least possible, but can extend up to $1200.

Path 1 - Buy an 'old' IPS-screen ThinkPad (Pentium M based), and take advantage of it's better keyboard and IPS screen. I'd be looking at X40, T42/T43(p versions), R50p. This would run ~$500-$700.

Path 2 - Wait till the 'x' series refreshes and purchase a 12" widescreen running at 1280x800 (hopefully).

Path 3 - Wait till February or so and purchase a T61P.

The only option that does not involve waiting is 1. What would you guys do?

One concern is speakers. Are they decent enough to listen to? Or are they just complete trash?

I read lots of comments about crappy screens. What is up with this? Are they really abysmal?

In the case of an old T series, on eBay, they come with 'Mack International" warranties, for a period of three years. Has anyone heard of this/had experience with it?

Finally, will the loss of dual-core completely kill performance? From what I know, a Pentium M at ~2 GHz should not be a slouch.

Thats all for now. Thanks alot guys

 

I would either go with the T43 fully loaded or the T61P. The T43 had better screens IMHO compared to the new screens.

Don't expect the internal speaker/speakers to do anything other than produce basic sounds. They are by no means for multimedia use.

I have no experience with that warranty so I cant comment on it.

 

So, the speakers can not even be used for basic multimedia?

 

Nope. I work with them every day and the only option is external speakers. The Lenovo 3000 speakers are worse IMO. I mean they will play music, but if your in a room that has some noise, forget it. The only "workstation" notebook that has decent speakers is the HP 85/87 series and they are way out of budget.

Keep in mind these machines are built for durability and business use....period.

 

optomos: what model do you have?

 

Well, the 8510p is not that bad. Especially in a few months, I could see the price coming down. I would still prefer an IBM, though...I hate fingerprints, which the 8510p is a master of.

Another option that I can do is a Dell D630.

 

I use all the T and X series at work. At home I use the 8710W.

 

If you are a clumsy person like me I say get T61. I drop it so many times from my shoulder in my back pack its not funny. another time i tripped over the power cord and the laptop fell from my desk.

Never had a laptop that so durable but one the other hand i have always been a Vaio user my whole life until now

 

Buy a T61p and the best warrenty you can afford.

 

i would definetly not go with option 1...why would you pay $500-700 for a used notebook that is outdated? who cares about the screen and KB if is not fast enough?

the lcd's and kb's are not that bad..i have a nmb kb fortunately and I love it...i have tried the chicony's and they are good too...remember that no matter what kb you get...they are still the best any notebook has to offer and they surpass every other manufacterer.

My comp is soooo fast, i couldn't even think of going to something older like a pentium M

 

I keep reading about horror stories with Lenovo support. Can someone lay down the rules for the warranty and what it entails?

Dell is seeming like a better option.

 

once you get your hands on a thinkpad...you will never go with any other manufacter again...especially dell (ewwe)

 

Dell Latitude series is great, unlike the nasty Inspirons and Vostros that you see

I want good customer service. Can anyone give thier experience with Lenovo's service?

Even if I decide to go with IBM, there is still the question of what I should buy. I am liking the idea of the T61P, but I feel that it is too thick and big.

 

I can't recommend the older models more. I just rebuilt a T23 and while it cost me $400 because I paid too much to begin with, the machine is as solid as a rock. I can throw it in my back pack and haul it around all day in school and it hasn't skipped a beat.

 

Thanks for your input, Flashstar.

The problem is the processor. Can they be upgraded to a Core Duo?

By the way, what was the last full IBM ThinkPad produced? My guess is the T43P.

edit: Seemingly not...the acquisition took place in December 2004. The T43P was in June 2005.

I may end up waiting till February and getting either a T61 14" or the T61p...but then, are there any predictions on an 'x' series refresh?

 

I don't think so..the current core 2 duo's are socket P...and there's a different architecture involved

As for the customer service with lenovo...it really is crap...lenovo is not known for its customer service

Dell, on the other hand, has excellent cust service

keep in mind when you are reading all the complaints on this board that people usually come to NBR to complain..not to praise

so you are only really seeing a small percentage of thinkpad users here...the other 99% don't have any problems

 

You're definitely right about that! I have been worrying quite a bit about the newer Thinkpads after reading the forum, but you don't go to a forum like this just to talk about wonderful experiences.

Generally speaking, each generation ie T2x, T30, T4x, T6x are pretty much interchangeable within themselves. For example, you can put a Dothan Pentium M into a T42 or T41 but you can't put a Core 2 Duo into a T4x or T2x. The socket and motherboards physically cannot support other components. I have been thinking about putting a T4x motherboard into a T2x Chassis though...

Btw, the T42 was the last T series made by IBM and the X41 was the last Thinkpad made under IBM.

 

Thanks again, Flashstar. I guess it would be a bit of step back if I got one of those Pentium-M based machines...

Right now, I'd say it is between (like mentioned before), the D630, a possible new X series (price will be high when this hits, right?), or the T61/p.

I'd like to keep it 14" and under, preferably...

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-T4...yZ140083QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is the T42 I would buy if I were to buy one. LMK your opinion.

It will have to be upgraded with a ton of more RAM if I were to buy it. Doing so will be very costly considering it is not DDR2 ...precisely, $160 for 2GB.

And the speaker issue still exists.

 

If you get a T42, remember to see if it still has IBM warranty left. There is a very high likelihood that it will have the infamous cold solder problem. The T4x line is especially prone to the solder around the GPU actually cracking due to flexing. The only solution is to either re-flow the solder around the GPU or get a new motherboard, which is expensive.

Just a heads-up. If it has warranty, I would go with it.

 

Just the thought of that deters me.

It looks like I am going to wait it out for a bit.

For the T42, it will cost $770 total (with RAM upgrade). I am not entirely sure that this is worth it. The problem is that for $120 more, a brand new X61 can be had, which includes a 2GHz Core Duo, 1GB RAM, a 1 year warranty and Vista Home Basic.

 

Honestly, I have been looking for a newer laptop to replace my T23 since it basically is unable to display anything 3D. I have looked at the T4X series and I would have gone with a T42, but the sub-par graphics card coupled with the solder problem has kept me away. I think that I will wait for the T62p to come out and then jump on that. Hopefully it will have a decent screen. If I end up getting a T61p and it has a bad screen, I will definitely call up the VP of customer relations at Lenovo and complain until I get a full refund.

 

i got the computer listed in my sig, minus 2 gb or ram that i installed myself and mine came with vista basic all for around $950

if you are willing to spend just a few hundred bucks more, you can get a top of the line machine...also if you want to PM me or email me at [email protected], I can provide you with an employee CPP code that will save you lots of money =)

 

Thanks for the eyecon, YGPM

Here is a question: What is the percentage of NMB KBs vs the Chiconys? How do you know which one you got? I assume that NMB is preferable, right?

 

nmb is preferable..then alps..then chicony...they are all excellent kb's and better than anything else you will find with other manufacters

you don't know..and you can't ask for a certain one...you only find out after they ship the system...at that point..they will give you a serial number...you then go to lenovo and search FRU listing, which will give you a FRU number...then you just google it and you'll know

 

T41's had the flexing issues with the solder. The T42's had the USB port corrosion issue. The T43's were still engineered by IBM which is why I recommended them.

As far as support, Lenovo does not support software configuration, only hardware issues. There are good employees that work for Lenovo, but the problem is the high turnover because of the low pay and that does not just include Lenovo, but also Toshiba. $11 an hour in the U.S. for someone who graduated with their BS degree is a slap in the face so most dont stay long.

 

Actually, the T42's did have the GPU solder problem. See link http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=33952

The T43's were actually made a while after IBM left.

 

Our family has an HP, Dell and R61i - and I have been using a corporate issued M4 for the past couple of years as my "bread 'n butter" laptop. After my experience with the R61 and the testimonials of coworkers who use ThinkPads, I'll never be happy with anything but a Thinkpad. In fact, my company is issuing me a tricked out T61p within the next few weeks (hopefully before Christmas) and I feel like a kid waiting on Santa.

On a side note, Toshiba had to replace the motherboards and memory modules in several thousand of my company's M4s last Spring due to manufacturing defects. (My M4 was one of the ones that had to be rebuilt.)

 

So then, what would you guys do of these new, revamped options:

1. Get a current T61/p. <---please advise.
2. Get a current X61. Hideous resolution included.
3. Skip IBM and get a D630.
4. Wait a few months and see what happens.

Remember that I want to game, do CS3 work, type stuff, listen to audio, and surf the web from bed. This leads me to thinking that 15.4 inches is too big for that last part, which is why part of me wants an X61.

And again, will the speakers be acceptable for gaming and listening to audio sitting right in front of the laptop? I do not want 'sup3|2 1337 surround H1-F1', I want something that sounds clear and decent.

 

what's wrong with the x61 resolution? xga is more than sufficient for a 12inch

If I could go back in time, I personally would have gotten a x61 instead of my t61

 

If you're serious about gaming, you might as well take the X61 off the list now. I would also forget about using the laptops' speakers for gaming (regardless of brand with maybe the exception of the Toshiba Quasimo) - either invest in some quality headphones or a set of external monitors with a subwoofer.

 

Looks like some T42's did have that issue, but it was more common in the T41's. Ibm never left, they are still partaking with Lenovo and it was not untill this year that when you called IBM tech support you were greated with "thank you for calling Lenovo" and not IBM anymore.

I would get the T61P and the 15.4 is not that big in bed, at least to me its not. Have you gone to a store to play around with a 15" screen?

 

Ok, put it this way: Will I be able to distinguish between say an AK-47 and a UMP in CS? That's basically it I have a desktop that's about to get an 8800GT, so this is just a secondary unit.

XGA is very low, especially for CS3 work...

I just configured a T61p for a total of $1409.

T7300 C2D
15.4 WSXGA LCD
Quadro FX570M
1 GB RAM <---this is getting upped to 4GB ASAP
100GB 7.2k RPM HD
9 Cell Battery
DVD-RW
4 year depot upgrade + 4 year ThinkPad protection
Vista Home Premium - should I get Ultimate?

I don't know...the price is a bit high...also, the time frame that I am buying is going to be late Dec. - early Feb. Do you guys think that there will be big changes by then?

 

Looking at the list of games you listed I would shorten the list to T61p and D630 ( The M2300 or M4300 is a better choice than the D630 imo) . The only Thinkpad that qualifies as 'gaming' class is the 15.4" with 256Mb 570M. By that I mean able to play new current games at playable framerates.

You should be able to run those games on a 14.1" 140M at 1280x800 but performance levels won't come close to the 570M. Just being able to 'run' vs 'running it well' are 2 vastly different things

If you leave gaming out any of those notebooks should fit the envelope fine.

 

with a 4 year warr and 4 years of thinkpad protection, you cant go wrong. Get at least Windows Vista Business because I believe they are also sending out XP recovery cds with them now, at least you would be able to downgrade to XP if not.

XP downgrade path:

Vista Ultimate->yes
Vista Business->yes
Vista HP and below->no

 

By the way, what happened to the WUXGA option on these T61p behemoths? I remember when they came out they had such an option, but it seems to have dissappeared.

Again, with ordering roughly 2 months off, this is just a rough estimate. Seems like a decent deal though.

The unit comes with 1 year warranty originally...am I purchasing an extension? Therefore, am I covered for 5 years total?

 

It stopped with the Z61P

 

That is a shame indeed

 

OK, now that that bit is cleared up, how do I upgrade RAM on this laptop? Also, what brand works well?

 

5 years of coverage is not possible.

Max 3 years. When you purchase an "upgraded" warranty it does not "add on" to your current warranty, ie. purchasing a 2 year warranty on a machine that comes standard with 1 year will not give you three years of coverage. Only two. As far as I know the longest period of time you can be "covered" is 3 years, thats by purchasing a 3-year warrenty.

 

There is a 5 year warranty package that can be purchased. They are also having a deal on the 4 year package now.

 

Mnnn it seems like cost is a Issue for you I would suggest buy a T61 series from lenovo outlet

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...ngPage=/All/US/Portals/Lenovo_Outlet/T-Series

They are brand new never open or refurbished. They are just canceled orders. they also include different warranty depending on what the orginal buy ordered.

I just check and there is no much supply but they restock often.

 

Even if it comes with a 1 year you can upgrade to a longer warranty by calling Lenovo sales, as long as your still "under" warranty. There are T30's out there that are still under warranty through warranty upgrade!

 

I received my certified used T42p just a couple days ago. The big beautiful screen and awesome keyboard was enough to win me over but for modern gaming of any kind you'd best be served by more recent hardware like with the T61.

 

Get the T61p over the Dell IMO. Also, I know the WUXGA appears and disappears from the Lenovo website depending on availability, but my brother's friend was able to order his over the phone and ask for WUXGA. It took much longer to ship though.

My brother would have done the same for his own T61p but he had a bunch of coupons which cut the price something like 20% total (and you can't apply coupons over the phone ) so he just waited until their site had WUXGA back and ordered asap.

 

Thanks again guys. I may go with the T61p indeed.

Are they any guides to installing more RAM on it?

 

Here you go: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/migr-67764.html

 

Ok, thanks. I will wait for the WUXGA option to become available (I am gonna keep this thing easily for 4 years...gonna get it how I want it ).

What is the best brand of RAM to use for the T61p? Thankfully, a whole 4 GB costs only $130 on Newegg.

 

look at the RAM thread...you can get 4gb for $70 after rebate!!!

 

I will make sure to. But what brands does the T61p like? I read about disasters with the T61p and 4GB RAM, and I don't want to risk anything.

Does anyone remember what that WUXGA upgrade costs? That'd be appreciated.

Do you guys think that the 570M can drive games at WUXGA? My guess is that it will do Oblivion at medium, and BF2 on high. Obviously, this is without AA/AF. Just to make sure, the 570M is like a 8700GT, right?

Thanks

 

i have ValueRAM...no problems here..i have also installed a 1gb stick of crucial ram..with no problems

regarding the Wuxga...are you sure you want it...if you are thinking you are going to have higher resolution..better quality looking screen..you are wrong

all it does is just make things much smaller to read and puts a strain on your eye....if you wear any kind of contacts or eyeglasses...i would steer clear of a wuxga