Overall T61: Is it worth it?

Ok, I've never posted here, but I was about to purchase this T61 from Lenovo:

6459CTO ThinkPad T61 15 Widescreen - 1 Yr Depot Warranty Intel Core 2 Duo T7300 (2.0GHz 800MHz 4MBL2)[1]
Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium[12]
15.4 WXGA TFT
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M (128MB)
2 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)[8]
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) with Fingerprint Reader
120GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm[4]
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim[5]
Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN[10] with BlueTooth
9 cell Li-Ion Battery[60]
6459: Express - 1 Yr Depot Warranty[7]

Then I figured I should actually check out some reviews. So, I've read through a lot of the reviews/issues on here. But, I can't seem to answer my question. Is it worth it to buy this computer or should I go get a different kind? It seems like all the laptops I've looked at (Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Lenovo) have issues, but this is the only one I've seen BSOD and locking up issues on. The rest have just been customer service and heat problems.

Anyone wanna weigh in with their two cents? Just FYI, I am by no means well-versed in computer installation and reinstallation, so I'm really scared of having to do it.

 

Well, the T61 is one bad ass computer for its price. Real solid and long lasting, my cousin has had his company issued T42p for about 3+ years. The T61 features a Mag. Alloy roll cage, spill proof keyboard, standard keyboard illumination, and a bunch of other stuff other manufacturers don't offer. Only problem is shipping takes a while, but it is the way to go for a sturdy desktop replacement. I highly recommend the T61 or T61p if you can afford it.

 

This come standard on all T61? Never heard of it in any reviews...

 

All computer companies have their problems, its just picking what you think is acceptable.

I couldn't stand glossy screens so I went with a business notebook rather then a chance on a cheap notebook with a matte screen. Not to mention Thinkpads offer higher resolution screens then most other companies and a bunch of other stuff thats good about Thinkpads.

 

Its an LED that shines down on the keyboard from the top rim of the LCD panel. This has been a feature on ThinkPads for some time, and probably ignored by reviewers as commonplace. If they removed it I venture to guess it would be the first line in the review...

Oh, the T61(p) is well worth the coin. I am very impressed with it, and at the prices available for education customers with coupons it can be had at a real steal of a deal.

 

After spending the last month trying to decide what model to buy as my first notebook, I have pretty much decided that T61 is the best combination of quality, performance and ergonomics while being backed by one of the most respected companies in the business.

I’ve worked in IT for the last 16 years so I am not exactly adverse to computer technology. I was looking for a quality notebook to mainly surf and do email when I am not at my desktop and to take with me occasionally to review photos when I'm out shooting at sporting events. I was hoping the GPU would be good enough to handle gaming as well.

At first I was looking only at things like performance, features, price and to a lesser extent aesthetics when creating my shortlist. I had narrowed it down to the Dell M1330, Asus V1S/G1S, HP 8510w and the Lenovo WUXGA T61p which is the only T61p model we can order in Canada.

Then I started talking to a few computer admins I know. What floored me was that everyone kept telling me practically EVERY single make of notebook is likely to suffer some sort of serious issue during a 3 year period if it is used daily. Apple, Dell, Toshiba, HP, you name it, they will all likely need a mobo replacement or some other major repair. So in general lappies are nowhere near as reliable as your average desktop.

I started giving things like build quality and warranty coverage higher priority over features and price. I also gave up on the idea of replacing my desktop with something like a T61p and decided to buy a mid-grade business notebook and spend the money I saved by buying a lesser notebook on upgrading my desktop.

If you want a quality notebook that will last more than 2 years I think your best bets are Lenovo, HP business series and Dell business series notebooks.

 

Just got mine the other day. I am very pleased with it!

The only thing I don't like is all the bloatware (soon to be gone ), as it really slows up the computer when you first turn it on.

 

Sounds like a good solid choice. Like Tailic, I don't like glossy screens at all, so that quickly narrowed the search. For me it was mostly choosing between a Thinkpad and a Dell Vostro. I went to a Dell Kiosk to check out their Inspiron notebooks in person (Inspirons are essentially identical to the Vostro), and I wasn't very impressed with the bulky size or build quality at all. For example, on the 14" Vostro, which has no latch on the screen when you close it which is fine, when you go to lower the lid, after it gets within a couple of inches of being closed, it sort of slammed the rest of the way shut without any resistance. Little things like that bug me. Between that and peoples comments on the forum, it just seemed risky without an extended warranty. They may have pretty good performance benchmarks, but that alone doesn't cut it for me. But if the Thinkpads weren't heavily discounted, I'd probably own a Vostro right now.

 

It is standard but on the T61 widescreen the light is not very useful. The beam is so narrow that if the screen is not at very specific angle there is basically no illumination of the keyboard.

And the angle I view at was not that perfect angle so it was like not having it there at all.

While I am gritching, the camera is very mediocre as well.

 

The Thinklight is ok, the usefulness is very limited though. It mostly only useful in pitch black rooms with the LCD set on low brightness.

In my opinion, they should come out with keys that light up like some of the gaming keyboard out now, say the G15. I also believe that the macbooks have light up keys. Make red keys to go along with the trackpoint and ultra nav stripes

 

another thing I don't like is where they put the AC plug....

I hate it at the back. can't really use the laptop on my lap, sitting on the couch with my feet on the coffee table.

 

Yes, there's a little more than what I'd imagined. I could definitely have done without the pre-installed copy of Microsoft Office Professional 2007 since I'll be using Office 2003, and would rather not have to deal with potential uninstall/install issues.

I even noticed icons for SQL Server 2005. Jeez, I hope that wasn't the full version!

Still, I guess if this bloat helps keep the cost of a lenovo relatively low, I can live with it till time comes to do a clean install.

 

Yea, there is lots of software on that where I am thinking, yea, OK, I really don't need that trial, or this trial, etc.

I am in the process of making the recovery disks now, I am hoping to get to a clean install this weekend. Can't wait to get rid of all the excess programs!

 

If you can get a T61p for under 1k (like you could late last month) then its worth it. If you are paying over 1300 dollars for a T61 it is not worth it. There are better options out there.

 

smoothoperator - What would you look at instead of a Thinkpad if you were paying $1300+

 

I'd look at an HP nc6910p. Otherwise much like the T61, except even better build quality and better battery life.

To answer the OP's question, no BSODs or hangs on my T61, but then again I'm running a fresh install of Vista64. Who knows how the the machine would run with the factory load of crapware.

 

And what would those be?

 

I don't agree on the fact that the HP nc series would have a even better build quality

The one I saw at a store had a lot of flex in the lid for a business notebook and the screen was wobbling almost like my Acer does (a lot)

The ThinkPads I've seen had almost no flex in the lid and no screen wobbling

 

Thanks for all the posts! I think with tax and free shipping the build I originally posted comes to about $1300. I priced a similar Dell 1521, and it came to almost exactly the same price. I've actually tried a couple of HPs, and the front part of the base, near the touchpad, heats up quite a bit. It was definitely noticeable for even the short amount of time I tried it out.

I haven't looked at any of the other business models for other manufacturers. Smoothoperator (and anyone else), what are some of the more comparable ones out there for the money?

Also, do I really NEED bluetooth and a fingerprint reader? I've read some things about the internal bluetooth not having very good range, and the fingerprint readers being a pain.

 

How could you work in IT for 16 years and only now get your first laptop ? doesn't make any sense.



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Perhaps they don't have better build across the board - I haven't seen any at the B&M stores though. However I have an nc6400 from my work and it's rock solid. All the plastic feels firm including the palm rests and there are no wobbly parts, including the screen. The lid is just as stiff to open as my T61, ie. I need to use both hands to pry it open.

That's not to say I'd give up my T61, I like it a lot. However, if someone were to offer me the choice between the two for exactly the same money, I'd probably pick the HP. I probably saved $600 vs. the HP with the deal I got on the Thinkpad so it was an easy decision.

 

HP does an excellent job on the build of their business laptops. The consumer stuff is merely ok.

@ari_m,
Is your nc6400 plastic or Mg alloy? My nw8000 is billed as Mg alloy.

 

I don't know if there's an alloy frame inside it, but the outside feels like plastic. Nonetheless the HP consumer notebooks are like toys compared to their business machines.

 

I had severe problems with a T61P order. It was the worst nightmare I've ever had in my 25 years of dealing with computers and computer manufacturers.

When I finally got the machine it arrived defective with a very bad screen.
Lenovo was extremely rude, said that it was within their specs, but if I wanted to send it back for inspection I could.
Then they said it arrived damaged and if I wanted it repiared I had to pay.

What started out in May '07 as a simple laptop order for what I thought was a top of the line machine, became a nightmare of missed dates, conflicting excuses from Lenovo's customer service, countless hours on the phone and now....a fight to get my $ back and my time has been totally wasted.

I had a need for a high end graphics system which brought me to the T61P.

If you don't need the graphics power of the quadro 570 there are tons of other options on the market and from companies who are much more reliable than Lenovo - who in my opinion has earned their reputation from when it was an American company (IBM.) From reading numerous negative consumer reports about Lenovo it's pretty appearent to me that when China purchased the Thinkpad division from IBM in '06 and made it a wholly owned Chinese company the customer service and quality levels have gone WAY down.

Do some research, you'll find a very high number of complaints to the Better Business Bureau, and every consumer review site has rated Lenovo very low.

 

In the deal, IBM received a 30% stake in Lenovo in the sale of the Thinkpad division.

 

@ari_m,
There is no skeleton, but the plastic you refer to is very likely a Mg alloy.

 

How did the broken LCD work out MonsterMaxx?

 

I'm a prior owner of 3 Dells who was very excited about my first T....as my prior experiences of the T4_ were always very good.

So here's my experience. Naturally, YMMV.....

Delivered 8/13 with 3gb RAM and 1.8 Dual Core 2, Vista Basic, bought for $1040 + tax. Returned 8/31.

Problems:
1. Left side of display lid did not close properly, eg gap between lid and palm rest when closed (there's a thread somewhere about this).
2. The two halves of the display bezel were not fitted properly, which resulted in gaps and crackling noise when grabbing the bezel to open/close lid.
3. On the left side of the palm rest above the PC card slot, there isn't much support for the weight of your palm....resulting in sagging of the palm rest if you applied too much weight on the palm rest.
4. One of my rubber feet on the bottom was too short, so the computer wobbled.
5. Vista booted up/shut down times significantly slower than XP. (This isn't really the fault of the hardware.)
6. Useless Thinklight.
7. Painfully long waits for customer service/order fulfillment support (which isn't open 24x7).
8. The plastic skin seemed to warp.

Pros:
1. Quiet, cool.
2. Great screen (matte).
3. Decent keyboard, though didn't feel as good as the T4x (though that's purely relying on 4 year old memories).
4. Compact power adapter.
5. Dealing with technical support (still run by IBM) in Atlanta was a very good experience.

Bottom Line: The build quality remained me of my old Inspiron 3200 from 1998 (not good). The cynic in me believes that the "rollcage" is a marketing gimmick to rationalize swapping more plastic for expensive magnesium. I was very disappointed.

Lenovo's making a big push to increase market share in the US v. HP and Dell. Perhaps they're cutting corners?

Reluctantly bought another Dell.

 

****In the deal, IBM received a 30% stake in Lenovo in the sale of the Thinkpad division.****

Not that Wikipedia is an authoritative source, .....

As of May 31, 2007, 39.6% of Lenovo is owned by public shareholders, 42.4% by Legend Holdings Limited, 7.9% by IBM and 10.1% by Texas Pacific Group, General Atlantic LLC and Newbridge Capital LLC. Because the Chinese Academy of Sciences, a Chinese government agency, owns 65% of Legend Holdings, effectively the Communist Chinese government owns about 27.5% of Lenovo and is the largest shareholder.[2]

^ Investor fact sheet. Retrieved on 2007-08-03.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo_Group

 

All true.....what you may consider is getting a Vostro ($600-$900) and plan on replacing it after two/2.5 years; so annual costs ($300-$450). Instead of owning a Latitude/T61 ($1000-$1200) for three years (annual cost $333-$400).

As long as you don't mind transfering your files/etc and don't need a docking bay or media bay/hot-swapping features.

Naturally, YMMV.

 

Leave your laptop on the desk, without moving it. It will most likely equal a desktop in durability.




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whoops, my bad...don't know where I got that 30% from...actually at the time of the sale, IBM received an 18.9% stake of Lenovo.

 

Simple. When I needed one (traveling) I would get one from work. For personal use I only use desktops and PDAs.

I am a gamer (or was until my kids were born) and up until recently pretty much all notebooks were compete slugs. I could not bring myself to paying $4K for a laptop that was unreliable, non-updateable and would be blown away by my $2K desktop. That pretty much sums up all notebooks that are more that 2 years old.

Now I feel you can, for the first time ever, get a reasonably fast notebook for under $2K.

 

Desktops don't have a lifespan of 2 years like most notebooks. My nanny still uses an old system that I built over 8 years ago.

I think packing in so many heat producing parts into such a small space causes more problems than transporting a notebook. Heat and electronics do not mix well and most notebooks have a problem with exhausting heat.

 

MM - You're scaring me man! How many here have had such a bad experience with Lenovo?
I am currently (now not so sure) considering a customized T61...

Any other horror stories?

Dave

 

My experience was great. I don't have any issues. Awesome screen, no dead pixels, great performance. The only thing I did not like was Lenovo not including any recovery CDs and filling the computer with bloatware.....yuck.

I am very very pleased with mine, that is for sure!

Perhaps I lucked out.

 

Satisfied customers are many, and I am one who is very satisfied. I ordered on the 6th and I had it on the 20th of August. And that is with a CC issue preventing them from charging my card delaying my order. I had no dead pixels and a true workstation class laptop. I think he is the needle in this haystack. Don't let that dissuade you.

 

See, the problem is when people get a "bad" or "lemon" laptop, they tend to complain about it because they are frustrated, and I don't blame them by any means. On the other hand, when someone gets a great laptop, you don't always here about it.

The other thing to note is that every manufacturer has there issues. You could pretty much find a horror story for any brand, whether it be Dell, Lenovo, Asus, etc.

Just keep that in mind when you here the horror stories.

 

Do yourself a favor and ignore MonsterMaxx's posts. He was banned from here for a few weeks because of his ranting. It looks like he is back at it now that the ban has been lifted.

If you want to check for yourself, click on MonsterMaxx's name on one of his posts and then choose "Find more posts by MonsterMaxx". That should show you all you need to know.

 

Yep, Yogi is right.

You'll see, this isn't the only site MonsterMaxx has been banned from: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=49172

 

Thanks for the heads-up. Poor MM. Looks like some entertaining reading, though!
(MM - If I thought I'd got such a lemon, I'd be pissed off too, if it makes you feel any better!)

Still considering my upgrade options, but still very happy with the R61i...

Dave

 

Well, I went ahead and ordered mine. The expected ship date in 10/3, which is fine with me! I'm really not in too much of a hurry since I'm not paying for shipping. But, I agree with the others. After I thought about it, and checked the BBB site, there are always going to be the ones who got screwed over (and I really hope I'm not one of them), and they have every right to complain. But the ones who got a great deal, have really no reason to come on and talk about it, unless they are geeks like me.

So, if I ordered on 9/14, and they always do at least a 2 week ESD (mine was more like 3 weeks), then when should I expect it shipped? I guess I should expect 10/3 and be surprised if it's earlier, right?

Thanks for all your help on my decision, by the way!

 

Yes, I agree with that. But now it seems this person is on a crusade to dissuade as many as possible from ever contemplating the purchase of a Lenovo; some sort of revenge strategy, I would assume.

Naturally, this does make for some incredibly tedious reading since the same sad story is basically being repeated over, and over, and over...and over again.

 

Wow, the guy is unstoppable...

 

Yeah do not worry about anything MonsterMaxx (aka QualityControl) says, if you follow the whole "sad tale" of his, he has created his own drama along the way and never backed up a single thing he has ever said, along with getting busted for lieing multiple times. Also he said when he finally got the system, he was just going to sell it anyway. Except nope, he is still making up stuff to complain about... I have no idea why the ban got lifted since he contributes nothing.

 

MM didn't get a lemon. He just lies and overreacts to the small problems for whatever reason (he has some type of personal hatred towards Lenovo). Basically ignore every post he made and you'll find some good opinions on whether or not the T61 is worth it.

I do think it's worth it. T61 definitely is worse quality than T41 and previous models... but it's still better than the most laptops out there now. It also still has a nice keyboard, trackpoint, and service from EZServ (IBM warranty service).

 

Well, I answered my own question about shipping. I ordered this computer on 9/14 and it shipped today (9/17)! My boyfriend ordered an X60 sometime during the first week of September, and they haven't shipped his yet. I'm guessing there was just more demand or lack of parts. But he called to see if he could change his shipping option and was only on hold for 2 minutes before talking to someone. Although, they said they couldn't change from regular shipping to 2-day.