Power Manager 3.20 is out

Power Manager 3.20 is out and the good news is that custom charging thresholds are back.

Doesn't show up on System Update yet.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-70601

 

Great news.
Hopefully this new version also solves my issues with display brightness settings.
Almost every time I have been running on batteries, when I plug the power cable in, the display brightness setting remains at close to 50% Even though my powerplan actually sets it somewhere close to 90%

 

Yeah, I'm with you. When did anything ever happen to charging thresholds?

BTW according to the summary of changes, all version 3.20 does is include a compatibility update for the Thinkpad L412, L512, and the T410s Switchable graphics model. Other than that, it's the same as 3.12 I'm guessing.

 

Thresholds were gone on the new 410/510 series. Since you have a T61 you would have never noticed this.

 

Hey guys,

Now that the thresholds are back what are the ideal thresholds I should set for my T410 battery. I've seen a variety of answers to this question on this forum so I am guessing its a matter of personal preference but, I still would like to know the thresholds you guys have and the reasoning behind it. Thanks a Million!!! in advance.

 

start charging below 40% and stop at 95%

I got 9 cells battery on most of my thinkpads. Although i never use the laptop for more than 2 hours without plugging in, 1 hr is the average time i stay unplugged. Using this setting, i can usually charge the battery every 3 to 4 days. This prevents repeated unnecessary charging for my battery and maximizes the battery longevity.

 

Just curious, how does this help with extending the life of the battery?

 

3.20 now shows up in System Update. At least on my W500

 

any major differences with the new Powermanager?

 

What are the ideal battery lifetime settings? Charge to 90%? 80%? And is it better to let it run down 10 or 20% before charging or keep the gap as close as possible?
.

 

I think it works like this:

Li-ion batteries like to be stored at 40%, so a 40% charge start will keep it around 40% while you're plugged in and not charging.

Batteries also don't like deep discharges, ie drains from 100% to 0%, so start charging around 40 will prevent these.

Li-ion batteries also charge from 0% to 95% fast but 95% to 100% very slowly. The top 5% is considered 'topping' off the battery which is damaging the battery, so only charging 95% will prevent damage, while charging to 80% is ideal.

 

custom profiles still don't show up in the hotkey menu. left click on the battery still opens the power manager after several seconds instead of offering the profiles to switch.

Lenovo should update it properly...

 

Agreed, I hate that about the new power manager. Left click and right click on the battery bar could accomplish pretty much everything. Now you either have to open it or hit the Fn + F3 and I hate that because I always worry that I'm going to hit Fn + F4 and put the damn thing to sleep.

 

It sounds like your suggestion is from 40-80%, is that right? Or keep it more towards 75-80%?

Thanks.....

 

I use 40-90%. You can do 80% if you want, but it depends on the amount of run time you need. In the end, it's impossible to know how much any of this helps your battery, it's just theory.

So use your battery as much as you need to use it, but if you can aim for the ideal 40% storage percent with a ceiling of 80% then it should help in the long run.

 

I use 95-100%.
- Because I usually use AC adapter, battery discharges with very low speed, so it takes about one week or more to drop to 95%, prevents it from continuously charging.
- Whenever I need to go out, my battery is ready for 5-6 hours of use .

 

You know, if it wasn't for this thread, I would've never went into Systems Update lol
I've had my T61 for over 2 years and I've never once gone into Systems Update lol
I did for the first time today, and installed like 275MB of stuff (17 items total, 3 critical, and the others just optional downloads).
Thanks for the info everyone !

 

I use 90% - 100%.

I never understood the point of keeping your battery at 80% in order to extend the possibility that it can go to 100%. You are intentionally giving up 20% of your battery life from the start.

 

I use 30%-95%, and when I know I will need battery time for extended away-from-the-plug sessions, I manually change it to charge up the battery.

 

really good point :-bd

 

If I am understanding this discussion correctly, I think the objective is to reduce/ minimize the number of times you charge your battery (i.e., minimize the charge cycles). Now, whether this actually improves the performance of the battery, I don't know and from what I gather reading threads on this topic, I don' think anyone can say with any degree of surety that such a system does help extend the life of the battery.

Having said that last evening after reading some of the posts on this thread, I set my battery to charge when it falls below 40% and to stop charging at 95%. But on thinking about it, this is going to be problematic because if I need to suddenly leave my desk and take the machine along with me and if the battery level is at, say 80% then I would have cut down on the available battery time when I am on the road, which kind of defeats the purpose.

So, maybe I will change it back to its default levels.

 

@lineS of flight: as I know, if you charge your battery from 95% to 100%, it is not counted as one cycle. Not very true, but it costs 20 times to be counted as one cycle, simply because 5x20 = 100. If you charge your battery from 50% to 100%, it costs only 2 times. I repeat, this is not strictly precise.

IMHO, caring too much about your battery is just wasting of time and losing a lot of comfort. Use it as you want, that's the best way.

 

As for your second point, I fully agree, which is also why I reset back to the default levels. Personally, I assume that I will be using the battery at its most efficient condition for about 18 months with the last few months showing a marked degradation of the battery. Then it is time to get a new one.

As for your first point - I find it a bit odd. This is because ever since I started using the machine (brand new), I have never let the battery get down to lower than 40%. The situation has not yet arisen. And, the times the battery has gone down to around (but not lower than) 40% has only been twice. Yet, I see that the battery info shows that 11 charge cycles have taken place. How then did that happen?

Just to clarify, I ask because I don't know.

Cheers!

 

Don't really know about your situation :-??

But don't be afraid of cycle count. A Li-ion Battery can last about 1000 cycle count or longer. Cycle count does not kill your battery as fast as heat or aging.

3 essential tips of using battery are: keep it cool, don't keep it at 100% always, don't discharge it too low. When you can do these things, then forget about anything else

 

I assume this Power Manager setting only applies when charging the battery while the machine is powered on and Power Manager is up. Correct?

Not useful for me, since I only use battery (AC is for charging), and charge overnight while the machine is powered off.

 

that is dependent on the li-ion battery quality, not all can last up to 1000 cycles. 300 to 500 cycles is about the life span of most thinkpad batteries made by Sony and Sanyo that i have encountered. Some Panasonic battery can last around 500 to 600 cycles.

 

No, power manager gives you access to the settings that are built into the hardware. So even when the computer is powered off it remembers your threshold settings. It's a premium feature that only a few laptop brands offer, mainly Thinkpads and Vaio's I think.

And while it's hard to measure exactly the benefit of all this battery management, I'd say it's substantial when compared to no management at all. Lots of people over on the Acer forum are reporting 15% wear on their batteries (in ultraportables) after 4 months. After 2 months of using my battery, I have 0%.

 

I try to force my laptop to keep the battery around 40%. When I need a full charge, I take it out ( actually put the long 9-cell batteries @40% in the fridge, and intend to use another 6-cell battery for everyday/convenience use), stick it on an external battery charger I got from Lenovo.

I ordered 2 chargers, I think it was around $70 shipped. I don't know if you can still find new models and not for sale on fleabay @ that price...

 

Yup. I think it's a highly customized, proprietary extension of ACPI.

That's not right. I hope you realize discharging and especially charging by themselves generate heat. Also chemistry and cell design (quality) have a lot to do with how many times battery pack can be charged. Each charge cycle while counted the same, could be very different charging parameters in detail.

Also when an entire battery pack fails, it usually due to premature failure of a single cell vs the rest. I think the failed cell self discharges rapidly on it's own, as chances are, there's now a short within the cell (sorta like a leak). In fact hypotethetically, if you gutted a 9-cell failed battery, while reduced in overall capacity due to usage and age, you'd probably find that 8 cells are ok and can retrofit 2 4-cell batteries.

 

Thanks. Very good to know.

 

Another thing to remember is the new automatic mode or whatever they are calling it. I read about it on the Lenovo forums but haven't really messed with it much. Supposedly it'll keep your battery on a 96-100 charge range if you are actually using it unplugged and then auto switch to a 40% maintenence mode if you keep the machine plugged in for awhile. For those that prefer to set it and forget it the auto mode might give you the best solution.

 

I don't really understand what you said . What do you mean about my post?

 

Could you point to where this "auto-mode" in the Power manager is? Thanks.

 

Couple posts from the lenovo forums from a Lenovo staff member:


As you may already understand, activities that degrade your battery capacity the most are: 1) age of the pack, 2) number of cycles due to usage and 3) time the battery spends at full charge. We cannot do anything to slow the effects of 1) because we cannot slow time . 2) is an effect of actually using the battery so again this is in the users hands and we fully expect our users to actually use the battery so I won’t suggest you use it less. However, there are users who rarely use their battery and therefore are already minimizing the effects of 2). So that leaves you with how to reduce the capacity degradation due to 3).



There are different ways to approach how to reduce 3). For this discussion I’m going to assume that you rarely use battery power and mostly use AC. Let’s use a scale from 0 to 10. 0 = the least effective method and 10=most effective method. (Unfortunately as you will see, 0 will be the most convenient method and 10 will be very inconvenient). The least effective, 0, is to never discharge your battery and leave it fully charge all the time. It’s not like your battery will die in a year even if you do this, but given this spectrum it is the least effective. 10 would be the case where you discharge your battery to 40% and store it in or out of your system at this level. Power Manager Custom Charge Thresholds will allow you to do this. This feature will be back in Power Manager in an upcoming release. If you remove your battery from the system at the 40% level this will also give you the same maximum benefit. Just be aware you should periodically connect the battery to the system and charge it back to 40%. The battery will slowly self discharge over time. If left on the shelf for a long period of time it will over discharge and damage the battery. I suggest checking it at least every 3 months.



The new dual mode that you are discussing is about an 8 out of 10 in minimizing 3) while the battery is in Lifespan Mode. To get to Lifespan Mode, ensure you have Automatic checked in the charge mode section of Power Manager. If you rarely discharge your battery, the battery pack will enter Lifespan mode in about 2 weeks. You will see a green outline around the Power Manager battery icon.



For usability, automatic is a good setting for many customers who occasionally use their battery and do not want to jump through all the hoops and deal with removing the battery from the system or live with only 40% charge.


---------------------------------------------------------


Dual Mode refers to a new feature supported by some of our new battery packs in products launched this year. You'll see an 'Automatic' check box in the 'Charge Mode' area in the battery maintenance tab within Power Manager (if the installed battery is a Dual Mode battery). With this feature, power manager can modify how your battery is charged to maximize the lifespan of your battery. If you are a light user of battery power or mostly an AC user, you will benefit most from this feature.

 

@infinus...

Thanks! That was very helpful. I have enabled the "Lifespan" mode (its called "Maximize Battery Lifespan"). Let's see what happens.

 

actually it serves the same as "always fully charge"...

i've used that setting for a while, it just always fully charged.

and the "notify me when thresholds change" option, never notified me...because my threshold never changed...

 

@wallmage...

Interesting, because as per infinus' post above where he quotes from the Lenovo forums, this setting should be optimal (or close to optimal) in so far as maintaining the battery is concerned. I also read up a little on this, which seems to confirm this. Maybe all it does is recalibrates or optimizes charge/discharge threshholds as per usage patterns. Now, whether this helps the battery is open to question. Anyways, I have enabled this feature and given that I won't be changing my usage patterns in any way, let's see what happens or if anything happens at all.

 

yeah i saw that post.
maybe i didn't use it long enough, my pattern wasn't recognized.

 

I have found the feature very useful. On my 5 year old T43 I set the charging range at 40% - 50% and today the original battery still has 81% of its original full capacity. I welcome the charge threshold back on the power manager for the T510.

 

My sense is that the battery charge display changes its callibration. If the max lifespan mode says that 90% charge is the max, it will display 100% when the physical battery is really at 90%. Sort of saying, "you are at 100% of the allowed charge in this mode."

Test.... When in auto mode and the battery icon tool tip says you are running in max lifespan mode and reads at 100%, change power manager settings to charge from 80% to 90% max. Mine immediately changes to read 85% charge.

.

 

i was hoping this one can fix my gpu whining on my t61 with win7 64bit

 

I have an odd thing... when I'm plugged in to A/C using my 65w adapter (that came with my T510), battery is attached but not charging (hasn't hit threshold for charging yet), and my Power used is showing 495-500w! How is that possible???? When I remove the A/C lead and just use the battery it drops to more expected numbers, but what the heck? Do others have this too?

 

Can you consistently reproduce those numbers? It may just be a random glitch that popped up (like the random times that Power Manager tells you that you have 50 hours of battery time left).

 

50 hours!!!! The most I got once was 7 hours, which I thought was normal since it was a new battery and I thought I was lucky!

 

Well I haven't tried rebooting but I'v seen these weird figures several times today. When I had my iPod Classic plugged in to a USB port, the figure went up to 515 - 520 or so.

 

Uh oh.. Sounds like a glitch tome.

I wonder if Lenovo accidentally introduced new bugs with 3.20. It is doing a lot of stuff functionally difference, in particular to their new Thinkpads.

 

To be honest, I never looked prior to updating to 3.20. Previously I always had PM in Advanced view, and it doesn't seem to show you power consumption unless you're in Basic. (Bad interface design in my opinion--Advanced should give you ALL of the Basic info and options PLUS the Advanced stuff.) It wasn't until I noticed people on the forums recently talking about how many watts they were using doing different tasks that made me think to look for it and that's when I noticed the odd numbers. I'll try rebooting one of these days (I'm a habitual hibernator) and see if that makes a diff.

 

In Advanced view, take a look at the Battery tab. You should find power consumption, plus lots more related to battery.

 

Okay I sit corrected! There it is, buried in the list of info. I honestly never noticed it there, or never paid attention anyway. Thanks!

 

So let me get this straight, recharging the battery down from 60% to 100% twice is roughly the same as charging the battery from 20 - 100 once? By this statement I should stay plugged in as frequently as I can then right?

Also, my charging thresholds are set at 95 - 100, can anyone tell me what the 'Optimize for Battery Lifespan' thresholds are in the new power manager?

Thanks