Price increase?

First off, the x60s is last year's technology. Why is Lenovo pricing them higher than the updated x61s's? Secondly, how come retailers are selling x60s's for a couple hundred dollars less than Lenovo is? This isn't the case with any other Lenovo model. I can buy a x60s for around $1200 at many online retailers that would cost me at least $1500 from Lenovo.

Any ideas? Thanks

 

If it's not a increase in demand, then it's decrease in supply, thus, a price increase.

 

The price of the x60s going up? News to me.


Okay seriously, it's what Spoon said. Lower supply --> Higher prices.

PS. No that price was only a typo.

 

That assumes demand stays the same. If demand decreases as well, then the supply decrease is a non-issue and the price should either stay the same or go down. This makes sense in today's market too because everyone wants newer technology- X60 is already outdated/obsolete.

 

There will be of course less demand (new technology), but the quantity supply will be far less than quantity demand. I love ECON. lol

 

How do you know?

 

Every time a new model comes out, the previous model MSRP is higher than the newer model. However, that doesn't mean the older one will still sell for MSRP. Usually the older model actually commands a lesser price in the market. However, this time for the T61, even though the processor and abgn card are certainly worth more, it has a much cheaper screen and build so not everyone is rushing to the new model, especially those who want a high quality LCD.

 

Know that there will be less demand for older technology?

 

Maybe like for candles instead of electric lights when the power grid gets knocked out again, as it did a couple of summers ago.

 

OK, none of the things you are saying are even remotely supported by reality. Let's compare the T61 15.4" and T60 15.4". The screens are exactly the same; we are not comparing Flex-view vs. non-Flex-view or anything like that. These two laptops use the same plain vanilla WXGA or WSXGA+ screens. So clearly, the T61 does not have a "much cheaper screen" in this instance. What about build? I don't know if the magnesium lid on the T60 is more expensive than the super-elastic-carbon-composite on the T61, but even if it is, the magnesium roll cage in the T61 lid that the T60 doesn't have would offset that price difference. And let's not forget that the T60 is more expensive than the T61. Clearly, nothing that you've just said explains why the T60 is more expensive than the T61; you've just used this thread as yet another platform to spread your nonsense.

 

How do you know that quantity supply of old technology is less than quantity demand of old technology?

 

Oh, I thought the X60 increased in price after the X61 came out. If that was the case, the only way to increase price (assuming demand decreased from new tech.), is to decrease supply. But you're right, I don't know that supply went down.

 

pwned.... poor guy.

 

Hey, sp00n wasn't pwned. This was a substantive conversation that these forums can use more of.

It's just a shame when threads are ruined by complete, utter nonsense. I don't even think SkiBunny cares about defending her opinions anymore. She just finds the next thread about the T61 and trolls about it there, only for me to embarrass her post and the cycle repeats. But at least I make sure future readers of her posts will take them with a grain of salt. I feel like I'm picking up after my dog when he makes a mess on people's lawns.

 

There is one advantage to keeping prices high, outside the supply X demand intersection.

Just like you can price yourself too high out of a market, you can also do the same by going to low. People were skeptical about how cheap they were letting these go, with as loose as they've been with epp/spp and all the other discounts/coupons for so long. Then they connect the dots, whether legit or not, with all these problem threads. Some will conclude cost decrease = quality downgrade.

Not saying this is why Lenovo would increase prices, but I bet it doesn't hurt them.

 

spoon is correct. that is because lenovo is trying to sell X61 and reduce X60 supply. Lenovo have limited supply can produce. Lenovo is trying to focus selling X61 and not X60. Although the X60 demand is still high, lenovo rather sell X61 more and put X60 in a higher price level for extra revenue. Lenovo believes high sales in X61 and low sales in X60 have higher profits than high sales in X60 and low sales in X61. if you go deeper, there is present revenue and future revenue.....

 

i agree with null84, it may be just an advertisement gimmick, well by doing so everybody just rush in to get their T61 even though there are some decrease in quality level(if there is any...)

 

As for who is spreading "nonsense"... First, I've already explained in this thread that MSRP prices typically always drop with a new model, which explains why the T60 is more expensive than a T61... i also stated herein that the market price usually will reflect the older model actually selling for less.

Second, some of the materials & parts used to build the T61 are indeed quite different than before, with some being the same such as the mediocre 15.4" SWXGA+ screen you mentioned. Further, the plant in which they're being built is different, and the people designing them and managing them is increasingly different this year. You apparently believe these things have no bearing on quality or price, but I do. Especially when I see statistics in retain showing that the problem & defect rate for the new model (T61) is soaring and higher than any model before it. Notwithstanding your silly "poll" on this forum to which you repeatedly refer that is of no sound statistical merit.

 

In 3 years here, this is a first for me...

Maybe when your REPutation approaches mine, instead of being LESS THAN HALF, then perhaps you can plausibly engage in your petty accusations of embarrassing me and my so-called "trolling". Meanwhile, in so doing, YOU are the TROLL who embarrasses only yourself. Not that I give a damn about an opinion of me formulated by a dishonest & unethical person like you who admittedly engages in identity theft.

Thank you.

 

So what does Retain say about the R61 problem and defect rate?

 

10 characters

 

This post is really, really long, so I've "nerdily," if you will, split it up into three parts:

SECTION 1: Direct responses

Yup, I'll admit it. I had a little problem understanding your post. You want to guess why?

Now that I get it, you explained very legitimately why previous models are more expensive. Because that's just how things usually work out, given the past. That's perfectly fine, and I actually learned something! But here's the part that threw me off:

You started ranting about how crappy the T61 is, in terms of the LCD, build quality, and whatnot. How does that explain the OP's question about why the price for the obsolete X60 is more expensive than the price for the X61? It doesn't. You just decided to use this thread as yet another place for you to talk **** about the T61, even if it isn’t applicable to the topic. This phenomenon is nothing we haven't seen before, and it confounds the message you are trying to say in your posts. (See Section 2, Subpoint A)

I don’t disagree with what you say because I believe in the opposite, I reject your opinion because you arrive at it through fallacious means. You assume the materials used in the T61 are cheaper. How do you know? Certain plastics can be more expensive than certain metals. You assume Compal will make crappy Thinkpads. How do you know? Maybe those Dell Inspirons suck because of bad design, and not bad manufacturing. You blurt out a general statement that the T61, as a matter of fact, has lower quality LCD screens, but even you just admitted that certain configurations of the T61 and T60 have the same LCD screens. Nice going.

In your 3 years here, you clearly haven't learned what the definition of a troll is. You know why you can be labeled as a troll but I can't? I don't try to flame and say controversial things every thread I go. I'm not arguing with every single person who has a problem with the T61. I don't have an agenda. I'm not claiming that the T61 is the epitome of perfection. I'm not a T61 fanboy. I'm not arguing with you because I can't stand T61 criticism, I'm arguing with you because I think the things you post are nothing but propaganda. This brings me to.......

SECTION 2: Why are you a troll?

Why are you a troll? You vehemently state the T61 sucks without real good evidence and where it is least appropriate. It is plain obvious that your goal is no longer good-natured and one of informing people, it is to post vitriolic comments about the T61 whenever possible. Here are reasons to support my accusation that you have an agenda:

A. You flame the T61 in a HUGE majority of your recent posts.

Maybe you've said things of value in the past, given your reputation, but the things you've said since 2 weeks BEFORE the T61 even came out? That's right, flame after flame after flame in places where your negative opinion about the T61 isn’t even related.

Examples:

In a thread inquiring about future sales

I don't have even half of the rep points that you have, so please correct my forum jargon if necessary, but I think that's called thread hi-jacking.

Unhooked asked if the T60 is still built in Shenzhen, without any references to quality.

Klinger asks about the EPP programs.

Chi-girl asks about the problems with Vista

A different story huh? No kidding.

In a thread about free Flexview upgrades for T60

This story is interesting. We can say that you were being fair by talking about heat issues because someone before you mentioned heat from the GPU in the T60. But you couldn’t pass up a chance to boast about cracked T61 cases huh?

In a thread about T61 delays

You totally made that one up. Don’t even contest that.

These are only a few examples. There are plenty more where they came from. If anyone is skeptical about my usage of these quotes from SkiBunny to prove an agenda exists, feel free to link yourselves to the threads they came from to understand the overall pictures.

B. Let's not forget, you hated the T61 even BEFORE it came out

With absolutely no experience with it whatsoever, you bad-mouthed the T61 for it containing Vista (general OS criticisms, etc.) and Santa Rosa (no real improvement, bad battery life, etc.). Now, evidently, once those things were disproven (XP option on T61, battery life is perfectly fine as shown in recent NBR reviews [even from my own usage, the things you claimed aren't true]) you've migrated on to other things, many of which from the experiences of a minority of forum members here, if not a teeny-tiny minority of T61 owners as a whole.


C. You will even contradict yourself as long as it is most convenient for you to crap on the T61.

WHOA! Didn't you just bash on the T61p for not offering a UXGA screen?

Whoops! Yes, you like Flexview- that opinion was consistent. But now make the lack of UXGA a reason why the T61p sucks? Hogwash!!

So let me get this straight: You think UXGA sucks, there's no market for WSXGA+ which is easier to see than UXGA, but the fact that UXGA is not on the T61p is bad. I guess that's something only an IBM employee would understand.

D. You never support your opinions. At best, you pretend to.

Why is that poll of any less merit than the supposed "empirical evidence" that you love to joke about in "I'm unhappy with my T61" threads?

This is why I have a huge problem with the stuff you post. You always make all these assertions but never back them up. Why is that poll "silly"? You feed off of threads where people complain about their dissatisfaction, what's the difference? What are these defect rates or statistics that you are talking about? What do they mean? You never explain this stuff; you just vaguely refer to them on the forum and expect us to accept everything you say simply because you are an IBM employee. That's elitist and irresponsible. What the hell? When do I ever legitimize my opinions by flaunting my employee status? Don't worry. Got that covered too.

Classic. "I'm the President of the United States. There are WMD's in Iraq. Kill them all!"

I’ve asked you on multiple occasions to justify yourself. You never do. You, sadly, ignore my requests and move on. Compal may make Inspirons, but how do you know that necessarily means Compal sucks at manufacturing? How do you know Dell’s design wasn’t responsible?

Let's engage in your discussion about defect rates and these "factory rejections," a couple of your new "in" reasons why the T61 sucks. Of course, I'm left to interpret what these things are thanks to you not explaining them. Even if the rejections and defects are up at these assembly plants, that says nothing about T61 design. All this means is that they still have to work out kinks in their assembly lines. What you conclude from this is "don't buy a T61, they're of bad quality- see there are factory rejections" but those factory rejections never make it into the hands of consumers. So who cares?

Maybe, just maybe you do have the answers to these questions. And maybe they are good answers. At least respect your fellow forum members enough to substantiate the things you say. We may not be IBM employees, but we can still use real explanations.

SECTION 3: Yup...that's NOT a cheap shot.

FYI, since you're a fancy " IBM employee" (I got you fancy lavender font to match), you know that EPP is offered for friends and family of the employee. What I did is most certainly not identity theft because I am not pretending to be Brian Meyer. At most, I am his friend. No identity was ever stolen. This must at least be the 1000th time I’ve explained this. In fact, the irrelevance of the concept of “identity theft” was discussed and heavily supported in a huge “legalities behind Meyer EPP” thread started by yours truly. Why use this as a lame cheap shot now? Get with the times.

 

While I am fairly new to this section of the forum, and my T61 hasn't even arrived yet, there's one thing in life that I tend to disagree with, and Johnny and I seem alike on it: complaining without backing up facts.

I'm not saying the T61 is perfect, like Johnny mentioned as well, however, from overall reviews, it is of high quality, design, and build. Yes, it has it's problems, but simply because several people had problems.

My God, so you had problems, I am sorry for you, but complaining for days and days and days on end is simply negative and that's not good for you. Look on the freaking bright side, and move the heck on.

No computer company is perfect, but basically slandering a product line because you don't want to backup facts is just childish. So, for anyone who simply complains day on end about a product, get the info, provide facts, or zip it you can't.

 

I've been a long time lurker of these forums, but after seeing johnny_1987's post, I just had to log in. I absolutely agree with him and Jon-Michael. SkiBunny is horribly biased and clearly logs in to make up things about the T61.

For shame!