Radiation

Not counting an ancient ZEOS 386, until now I've only used a desktop. It has a wireless router but I keep it a few feet away from where I sit. The effects of radiation quickly decrease with distance.

Now that I have a laptop that I am actually using on my lap, so far always with the wireless turned on, I'm considering the danger. I'm not planning on contributing to an increase in human population numbers so I'm not too worried about mutant genes resulting from long-term laptop use, but I am concerned about cancers.

I went looking on the internet for a lead apron, something light but effective enough to block not only the wifi but also the other electronic emanations buzzing away immediately next door to my tender tissues. The aprons they drape around us at the dentist's office are too heavy to be practical. In looking for a light, protective blanket/apron/pad I came across a couple very innovative products. I'm far more inclined to trust lead but I thought I'd ask anyway . . .

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Star 3-Hole, Wireless Radiation Protection Device

 

i think the fears of radiation are less than realistic. I think you should totally forget them.. I've been irradiating myself with amateur radio and I also put myself through college in an AM radio station.

Renee

 

Send me the $15.50 and I'll send you something to protect you too. In fact send me the $60 and I'll protect your whole house. If you order in the next 5 minutes we'll throw in the....

 

I lol'd after the reading this:

But now I'm really wondering how serious this thread is lol:

 

Cancers take many years to form. Better safe than sorry.

I know we don't hear much about radiation dangers here in the U.S. but in Europe, Scandinavia especially, there is much attention to this.

 

Laptop don't emit ionising radiation, the intensity of EM radiation that it is emitting is too weak to cause any cancer.

Also lead apron is more suited for ionising radiation and high frequency EM radiation. What you need is a copper mesh faraday cage type of shield which blocks out EM radiation emitted by laptops and wireless/mobile phones signal that surrounds you.

Furthermore, lead apron is not something you should constantly wear, as some low quality one do actually leak out the lead content, which can cause all sorts of health problem.

If you are worried about radiation related health issues, then it is advisable that you read up on more authoritative journals and articles from scientific database, rather than relying on heresay from people whom pretends to be experts.

These rings that you have shown do nothing to prevent radiation or decrease the dosage of radiation that you receive.

 

Yeah mate, lead is poisonous. Please don't.

WiFi is fine, don't worry about it. I'd worry more about passive smoking, alcohol, tanning outside without a good UV protection etc. - something that we actually know is bad for you.

 

do you use cellphone ? ... as that is with times more harmful than a laptop with wifi, as you keep the phone next to your head

hey sorry for the double post but my GF just suggested that you should buy a Geiger counter

 

QFT. Cell phones emit more radiation than laptop WiFi cards, and plus, you hold them to your head and keep them in your pocket. I'd say that's far more contact than typical laptop usage will have.

 

Speak for yourself. ::Snuggles Thinkpad::

Seriously speaking, radiation from the radios within your laptop is far from a pressing matter. Long before you have to deal with that, you'll be sorting out eye strain, Repetitive stress injuries in your wrists and hands, bad posture from typing with a keyboard on your lap, neck aches, back aches.......just the thought makes me want an ibuprofen. The chances of a laptop's wireless signal harming you in any way is so close to zero, it's not even worth addressing.

Also, those little miracle squares/triangles/hole-y trinkets are junk. Just someone preying on the fears of the masses to make a buck. Don't give them your hard earned money.

 

“These rings that you have shown do nothing to prevent radiation or decrease the dosage of radiation that you receive.”

Whew. Good save. I had my credit card out and was ready to start punching numbers

*********************

“do you use cellphone ?”

Not much. I turn it on when I need it and leave it off the rest of the time. It’s a huge interruption more than anything else but yes, radiation right next to my brain? My brain voltage is already so low that I’m sure I’m at more risk than most people. Especially those with such strong brains that they can plant a BT headset on their ears first thing in the morning, wear it all day and not notice a thing when they go to bed at night. Or maybe they leave it on in bed too. I don’t know those people.

I think the U.S. is at the stage with cellphones and other PRD’s that the country was at in the 1950's with cigarettes. The Surgeon General’s report had not come out yet but many people already suspected that inhaling hot poisonous gases every fifteen minutes was not a healthy thing to do.

The antennas are in the screen frame of this T400 so that’s not as close as I’d assumed. Even a few inches makes a big difference.

Didn’t I just hear that the leading cause of death in kids 12 and under in Australia has gone from whatever it was to brain cancer?

I’ll bet someone comes out, if they haven’t already, with a shielded lap desk. I just thought of it - I think I’ll make or buy one of those like I saw in Office Depot and lay some copper tape in criss/cross pattern. Or whatever works. I just got this thing and it looks my normal use of it is going to be with it on my lap. A desk and table would be nice but then might as well use my desktop.

My initial post on this was half serious and half frivolous. Those goofy little resonators actually serve to give people reason to scorn the whole idea instead of thinking about it.

 

maybe it is better that you read up on the theory of the Faraday cage before you start going out and purchasing copper tapes.

Also, where are you getting the information about brain cancer as the leading cause of juvenile death?

 

It's hardly comparable to cigarettes - in that we know A LOT about radiation. I mean people who study science at least. WiFi radiation is the LAST thing you should worry about when it comes to radiation.

If you're worried about radiation, stay away from the Sun too, stay away from the natural radiation on the Earth (leave the planet?) and stay away from the background radiation we get in the Universe due to many many other sources. Try another Universe perhaps.

 

While I agree that cigarettes have a much more detrimental effect on our bodies, he does actually have a point. The latest study in regards to cell phone usage and brain tumor correlation resulted in an "inconclusive" result (you can Google for it - the study concluded a few months ago). We know about radiation, but we don't know precisely how it affects the human brain and whether it could lead to brain growths down the road.

That said, radiation emitted by cell phones is far more significant than that of laptops, and in the modern world, it's quite impossible to shield yourself from all the sources of electromagnetic radiation. Probably the only actions that would be practical are A) using a wired headset when talking on the phone (Bluetooth emits less radiation, so it would technically be an improvement as well), and B) not using a laptop directly over "sensitive" areas

 

there is a higher likelihood of dna mutation caused by background radiation from the surrounding then the amount of radiation given off by the laptop from the wifi.

Also, good quality spring water is also slightly radioactive. So you might want to stay away from Yellowstone national park...

 

Another good protection plan apart from the lead apron, is to cover you head with an aluminum foil. Not only it prevents brain cancer, it is an effective way to stop NSA reading your mind.

 

Fun fact: WiFi (2.4Ghz) is non-ionizing radiation.

Quit worrying.

 

I vaguely remember a study (not sure which one was it, but it was featured in one of the popular news websites) and it was done so ridiculously crappy, that the only thing it proved is how clueless the authors were.

There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO - and I claim this as a physics graduate student who worked with radiation and still works with UV - evidence either theoretical either experimental that microwaves at ~0.1W power do ANY observable damage on people.

As (correctly) stated multiple times here, microwaves can't chemically change molecules by ionization - but can denature proteins and heat you up, similar to regular heat - its just that they won't heat the surrounding air. For example, if you were to somehow stick the hand in the microwave (DON'T) it would get cooked - which is the same thing that would happen if you stick in the regular oven (again... DON'T). I also remember reading about people suggesting the laptops shouldn't be used in your lap due to microwaves. Again, no proof. If anything - you shouldn't use them like that if they are overheating - first they are heating up your sensitive spots and second, you're often blocking the proper air flow. The heat does produce observable effect - try using the old Dell XPS m1330 and you'll see what I mean.

 

@Flyright
Why in the hell would you want to worry about something as simple as Wi-Fi?? aren't there more pressing things to worry about?

As others have stated, there is a huge amount of background radiation and such out there (not to mention all the random stuff we either know little about, or have yet to find. It is a large universe, trust me, we have not discovered it all- if we knew about everything we would be masters of the universe by now! but we are not)


If you are going to worry about Wi-Fi, you may as well worry about the EM-fields created by earbuds while you are at it

 

There are government standards in most western countries that set acceptable limits for radiation emission for consumer products and these standards need to be passed to be sold legally in said countries. These standards may change and is arbitrary but at least it serves as a guideline that the consumer devices are likely safe given current knowledge provided manufacturers adhere to guidelines.

Radiation sources are unavoidable so there is probably not much point worrying about your wifi source. Lets not forget the many times satelites and other space exploration instruments that carry long halflife radioisotopes have been purposely destroyed by letting them fragment and burn during atmospheric reentry. Or what about the annual exposure to radiation during normal checkups from medical imaging etc. What about radiotherapy that uses radiation to cure cancer, yet ironically enough radiation exposure is also the postulated reason for DNA mutations, etc. In other words, no point or need to worry - scientisits work night and day to find out potential problems if it exists so we can relax.

 

Our bodies have evolved with the background radiation of the universe, Sun, etc. However, even with millions of years of adaptation skin cancers from overexposure to Sun are still extremely common.

"Professor Hardell told the conference – held at the Royal Society by the Radiation Research Trust – that "people who started mobile phone use before the age of 20 had more than five-fold increase in glioma", a cancer of the glial cells that support the central nervous system."

It's true that we are awash in a sea of radiation. Most of these sources have proliferated in the last 30 years and it's way too premature to start scoffing at common sense presumptions. Smokers in the 50's scoffed at the tin-hat people who linked cigarettes to disease. Most smokers still refuse to make the connection or would rather just not think about it. I think most of us take the same attitude toward our PRD's since we not only often need them to function in many cases but are also, in many cases, addicted to them in the same way smokers are addicted to tobacco. I know I am. First thing I do in the morning is grind coffee beans and turn on the computer.

David Carpenter, dean of the School of Public Health at the State University of NewYork – who also attended the conference – said: "We may be facing a public health crisis in an epidemic of brain cancers as a result of mobile phone use."

The FDA, the same people who give us melamine in our food and who approve any poison they are paid to approve, will tell us currently in their mealy-mouth way that not enough study has been done to conclusively prove . . . yada yada yada. In paying casual attention to the radiation danger info that has passed by me in random fashion, I've probably done more research than have those on the forum advising me to do my research.

"When patients come in with a brain cancer, I often say to them, "your cancer was on the right side of the brain, it is in the area just above your ear, can you tell me if you feel that you have had more exposure than most people to mobile phones," and I am surprised that most people say, "yes I have used my phone continuously for the last seven years and it is always stuck to my ear on this side..." well, that is where the cancer is. - Dr Charlie Teo - Australian neurosurgeon

More Data - Cell Phone Childhood Brain Cancer Linkage

If I'm going to have this neat little device sitting on my lap in the years ahead, I'm thinking it might be smart to get ahead of the curve and do something minimal to defend my body from the electronic emanations. At some point there is going to be another Surgeon General's Report on PRD's and I'll be one of those who will be saying "I knew that a long time ago."

I'm hardly a crusader on this issue - it's only the arrival of this new toy that prompts my concern. Other people can poison themselves all they want.

 

I think you should stop using WiFi and plug the cable

 

Radio waves from either pro radio stations or amateur are less to be worried about, they have been here for century or so and cannot be comparable to wifi/cell towers.
Ive read conclusions from one study which found that during 10 year period people living within 400 meter range cell tower had cancer rates 4x (?)higher than those, who lived outside this zone.
Now there are many factors that could either support or prove this study wrong. But what Im trying to say is that while there are supposedly "safe" gov radiation levels within safe limits for humans, no one has ever really conducted wide-broad study on a long term.
I DONT trust cell tower and wifi radiation, I know for sure that in my house there will be no wifi

Everything has its own natural radiation background, some things have it more, some less. There are acceptable limits within which one should not be
worried about.

 

Yet, as statistics will show the average age of people living in developed countries have risen over the decades along with the increase in technological development and exposure to man-made radiation sources. This is likely due to better health care among many variables, but it points out longevity of life and man-made envrionmental radiation exposure is not inversely proportional.

Radiation is a very blanket term, often with negative connotations when used in society. Physically speaking it depends on what the energetic particle is that we are talking about, its properties (e.g. mass-energy, charge etc), and also the properties of the particles that are within its trajectory and whether or not there are any interactions possible to take place in the first place and whether there are going to be momentum transfer.

If there are no to little probability of interactions then it is safe to say there is no concern. In other words it depends entirely on whether the spatially traversing energetic particle interacts with and also transfers momentum to the particles that are in its trajectory or not, and this is technically described by its probability of interaction (or cross section).

E.g. the high solar neutrino flux is not even a worry because most particles have very low neutrino cross-sections and dont interact easily with neutrinos(thus why they are hard to detect too). Solar electromagnetic radiation on the other hand is a worry because most elemental matter comprise of electrons with a high abundance that also takes the most space of any atom and thus can have higher interaction probability (thus higher cross sections). Photon-nucleon interaction is possible too at higher energies but besides the point. Yet, even for photons that can readily interact with electrons in elemental matter particles, it doesnt mean it will interact or that it can always cause damage even if it does interact because it depends on a variety of variables that determine whether incident photons gets absorbed, penetrates or elastically scatters.

When speaking of radiation from consumer electronics, one is typically referring to only the emission of photons, as otherwise they most probably wont be classified as consumer electronics (i.e. your wifi emits photons). The photons emitted by consumer electronics, especially for telecommunications, have energies that are not ionizing and also have wavelengths that only permit them with highest probability to elastically scatter with organic matter. In other words, most photons emitted from consumer electronics will typitcally just penetrate or elastically scatter with biological medium leaving no structural damages. In the lower probability that the emitted photons do get absorbed or inelastically scattered, the cirsumstance is often heat dissipation (i.e. atomic vibrations and/or reemission of a photon with lower energy).

Still, as we can best describe the universe in the sense of probability, it is always wise to minimize exposure. Nonetheless, there are many studies done and our continued application of electronics will prove, the permissible EM radiation from consumer electronics have low probability of causing health concerns.

 

Troll...

...really guys? -____-

smh.

 

that was my attempt at a joke.

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Also, a message to the OP, what you are discussing is not related to Thinkpads, and it is best that you consult an radiation oncology specalists rather than attempting to argue your unproven theory with hearsay, and from experts whom have no scientific data to prove what he/she is saying.

If you don't understand the science behind what you talking about, it is best that you not argue about it. If you are worried about EM radiation danger, then it is best that you stop using any electronic devices that emit these EM radiation.

Also, the so called scientific evidences that you presented for brain cancer are more related to Cell phones, which emit a higher wattage power than a wifi on the computer can. Futhermore, all the risks associated with cellphones are due to the fact that most users place it next to the ear. So it is not related to your wifi and such.

Finally, toxicity is related to dosage and concentration.

OP you also mentioned that you know more about EM radiation related dangers and such, then what is the purpose of your post? Are you a troll?

 

"@Flyright
Why in the hell would you want to worry about something as simple as Wi-Fi?? aren't there more pressing things to worry about?"

I don't think this is a troll. I think I hit the nail on the head earlier. These are real fears and they are irrational.

Renee

 

Click his profile and look at his other posts... then re-decide.

 

I think this has run its course now.