Random Shutdowns and System Hangs while gaming

I've been experiencing some random shutdowns/shut offs when gaming. Drivers are stock (I had bioshock drivers loaded but reverted back to stock). Originally I thought it was an issue with FSX and the stock drivers so I loaded up the bioshock drivers. This didn't remedy the issue so I figured it was just an FSX issue as there are known crash to desktop issues with the game. Well today I installed "BMW M3 Challenge" and when playing it I've experienced similar issues (system hang/audio loop/nonrepsonsive system) so I uninstalled the bioshock drivers and downloaded the stock drivers from lenovo's site. Well I thought this would help but no luck as I still get the system hang and system shutoff (as if its overheating). Now I can rule out overheating as I'm in a air conditioned room and this has happened in multiple locations around my house (all with adequate cooling) and the system doesn't feel overly hot and I have not recieved any error messages.. just the hangs and shutdowns which is making diagnosing the issue difficult. I am really hoping that its not my gpu thats bad but its definately possible? Any way to test? Could it be a ram issue?

 

Have you tried a clean install without any ThinkVantage applications?

I'd suggest trying that with just the drivers you need.

Be sure you are running 163.71 Nvidia Drivers also.

 

I'd really prefer to not reformat/reinstall. When I got the laptop I updated it and then ran Rescue and Recovery and opted out of most of the non Lenovo software (pretty much everything but acrobat reader).

I am currently running the oem Lenovo drivers that they host on their drivers page for the t61p. These drivers and the bioshock drivers have given me the same issues. I will give the newest drivers on laptopvideo's page a whirl and report back.

 

Installed the latest drivers.. (163.74). Still having the same exact issues. The games will be running fine and then out of nowhere my laptop just turns off like someone yanked the power cord out of a desktop.

 

Try monitoring the cpu and gpu temps while gaming, run the game in window mode while watching your temps in the back ground. Use Core Temp for your cpu. I'm not sure what you should use for your Nvidia video card (I haven't owned a Geforce card in 2 years) but I think RivaTuner will let you monitor it.

I'd hate to say this to you but if it isn't your temps then you may need to format your machine to make sure it isn't software related.

You can search around and find out what the normal temps are for your video card but the max temp before damage is 100C. It'll normally shut itself down before it gets that high but it usually just cuts you out of the app.

One more thing, does it shut down when you're on both battery and a/c? Just battery? Just a/c?

Does it do it with every game you play? Older or less intensive games?

 

The system will shut off on ac and battery power. I haven't tried any other games to be honest. I am fearing that its a heat related issue due to the way it will just shut the laptop off. Is there a way to see why the system powers itself down? Does it log it? Its pretty rediculous that I'd have to reformat so soon. Only things I've installed are the two games, itunes, and MS Office 07.

 

I get that too. I thought it was just me, as I hadn't seen any other complaints in the forum... Exact same symptoms, I push the machine hard and *pop*, it's shutdown.

I did a clean install too, but have most of the ThinkVantage stuff on there.

 

Yep.. thats what I'm experiencing. Does it happen only in games for you? Seems like thats the only thing I do that would really push the system hard enough for it to pop and shut down on me. It performs awesome otherwise.. which is dissapointing because I am thinking that its going to have to make a trip back to lenovo which sucks cause I am at school and really would hate to be without my computer for too long.

 

on a side note here is a thread about someone experiencing the same issue: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=168064 sadly there is no solution posted..

 

APS causes lockups

 

You saying that APS (active protection system?) is whats causing this? What would it have to do with gaming?

 

hmmm no dice on aps being the cause.. I had my hopes up for a second there though. Then I got the all too familiar shutdown.

 

Happens to me when I make the machine really busy.... like kick off a bunch of programs, including Virtual PC, and consume a lot of RAM. Disabling Active Protection did not fix it. Do you have that god awful Turbo Memory as well? I suspect that is the culprit.

 

nope...no turbo mem. I will prolly call tech support tomorrow to see what my options are.

 

If you had Turbo Memory, this would have been a closed case. Turbo Memory always seems to get the blame just because it is new technology. I have yet to see any proof that Turbo Memory is the source of anyones stability problems. I can only agree that if you already have stability issues then Turbo Memory might exacerbate the pre-existing condition.

 

Very interested to know what tech support says.

FWIW, it's not memory either. I pulled all the RAM and tried different RAM. I thought that was it, and then *poof*

Funny, if I use the machine "normally" it will go all day. It only seems to be when I use the machine for what it is designed for (i.e. my mobile workstation) that it gives up the ghost.

Maybe I will take Stallen's approach and move my ReadyBoost off the ITM and get a 4GB SDHC.... or use my SSD for ReadyBoost, not sure if a Extreme III or Ducati SDHC is faster -- probably.

I am running all current drivers, MS and Lenovo. I did install the two performance packs for Vista from Microsoft as well as the stability update.

Ran vtune tonight, and the GPU was sitting at 61 degrees C when it popped. Checked CPU temp and that didn't seem to be it either. Frustrating.

 

Just for the record. I'm not gaming on my machine. So I can't say that I wouldn't have the same problem if I was running the same games.

 

What controls a high temp shutdown? The bios? Is there a way to check that the settings are right?

 

At this point, I'm not either LOL Actually, I game very little, but use Visual Studio, Virtual PC, etc a lot.

 

Memory errors maybe? Try running memtest just to make sure. Swapping sticks isn't exactly the best way to tell if they are bad since both could have a problem, Memtest86+ should tell you with a few passes.

Other then that maybe something in Thinkvantage is causing a problem. I noticed their software can be a bit iffy. I remember a while ago that it made my system act up before they patched it.

Thats pretty much all I can think of, the rest is going to be left to tech support.

 

well here is an interesting development for me.. i disabled asp again and now I can't get my system to shutdown on me while playing fsx or bmw m3 challenge. I've played for atleast 2 hr in fsx and about 30minutes in the bmw game and other than a small blip in the bmw game there have been no issues. So now I'm wondering if its actually a software issue.

Problem solved? Not sure yet.. Part of me really doesn't want to lose the hdd protection. Another part of me wants to be able to game. I'm tempted to try a reformat reinstall now just to see if its just an issue with the software. Any other suggestions?

 

Emilio - I assume you have the latest version of APS and the Bios for the t61p? The latter isn't available through ThinkVantage Update, you need to download it directly off of Lenovo's website. I find it hard to believe that APS could cause a problem if you're not moving your laptop. But, who knows, suppose it could just be a blatant bug.

Do you have Intel Turbo Memory?

 

Hmm I have only updated my laptop via the thinkvantage update service. I'll check both pieces of software against the newest versions and update accordingly. As for the turbo memory I do not have it as I have heard countless horror stories.

 

Well, for what it's worth, my ITM works fine and signficantly impacts performance in a good way (observed when disabiling it). That said, I do have some issues with my t61p, but I think they are more USB / USB device driver related.

To confirm, you are seeing these problems when you are NOT moving your machine? e.g. when APS should not be triggered?

 

Just checked APS and BIOS and both were the most current versions. The shutdowns are happening while the system is on a desk. In fact.. I am not even touching the system when I experience these issues (using the joystick).

 

emilio, any luck getting your spontaneous reboot post-removal of aps? Mine is disabled, but I am tempted to uninstall it if you're saying that fixes it.

 

Rumors over in the thinkpads.com forums that the nVidia driver update that came out yesterday *may* have solved the problem.

 

I didn't remove it just disabled it. Have you tried gaming/doing gpu intensive work with it disabled? Is the driver update from lenovo or a modded inf version from laptopvideotogo?

 

I've crashed it plenty of times with APS disabled, so I don't think that's it.
The driver is from WindowsUpdate, so neither Lenovo direct or LaptopVideoToGo. The version number according to windows properties is7.15.11.5666, dated 9/28/2007

 

I just got the notification of a new windows updates being available(one of which is a new Nvidia driver). I'll install the new updates and report back once I get a chance to test them.

 

you have a link to this thread?

 

No dice.. the new driver didn't help.. I am going to try and use R&R to reformat and reinstall tomorrow when I get a chance and see if that helps at all.

 

Emilio, my man. I suspect this is none other than a true overheating problem with this t61p. I've seen the same thing in desktops, it's consistent behavior in an overheating scenario. The only way this can be "fixed" with a driver or bios update is to basically throttle back the GPU to compensate.

Yes, Lenovo screwed up big time. Inadequate heat dissipation for a GPU under load. It's a major flaw.

 

Thats what I'm coming to terms with. The question is... if I send it in and they toss a new mobo (seems to be the common plan of action from what i've read) will i be ok? It seems to be a fairly common issue but at the same time there are those who aren't experiencing it and are gaming on their T61p.

 

Well, I've got news for anyone following this (or experiencing the same issues). Spoke with tech support today. The guy was very cordial and just basically had me verify that all drivers (bios/video/etc) were up to date and was pretty confused by the issue himself. They will be sending out a box and I'll be shipping my t61p back to them for diagnostic testing/repair. I'll continue to keep you all updated as to the situation.

 

Good luck Emilio!

 

Thanks. Hopefully this is just the result of a piece of bad hardware (the tech pretty much hinted towards it being a bad gpu or overheating cpu but diagnostics will verify). The box should be here tomorrow so i'll back up my info and have it ready to ship out. On a side note.. think it would be wise to do a Rescue and Recovery reformat/reinstall prior to sending it out? I gave them free reign to wipe the drive and reinstall the os though so I figure I can just grab all my files and send it out as is.

 

This has to be a heat issue with the 570M because I've never had an issue while gaming with the NVS 140M

Good luck

 

Emilio, I have the same shutdown problem with my laptop (T61p | 15.4 | 4GB | 200GB/100GB 7200 | Vista Business 64) as well. I don’t play much on it, so it doesn’t happen a lot, but it even happened to me once while playing a short HD movie.
I also suspected a heat problem, but using different monitoring tools the GPU core / mem reported about 75c at the time of the shutdown. The GPU should be able to operate under higher temperature, unless there is another flaw.
This seems to be a wide problem with (or at least some) the T61p. I was wondering if any one with Windows XP experienced the same shutdowns?
There is also a user on thinkpads.com that blames the shutdowns on the dual channel, I am going to test his theory soon.

 

I gave up, called EasyServe, and have a box coming tomorrow.

My probably related issue is about 75% of the time when I dock the laptop the power shuts off. Today it happened three times in a row, which pushed me right... over... the edge...

 

I am not sure that this is the same problem, you might want to check your docking station: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-67382.html

 

nurio. this is good to know, though I have the shutdown problem off the dock as well. Will call back and get this kit to address that problem too. Thanks!!

 

Emilio, I noticed in your signature that you have 2GB, is that in a 2x1GB or 2GB config?

I am asking this because, I ran some tests on my laptop and the results that I came up with leads me to believe that the dual channel is to blame on the shutdowns:

In my T61p I have 4GB OCZ RAM installed, almost every time that I tried to play Bioshock demo in 1920x1200, the laptop shuts down a few seconds after the game starts (it lasts longer if I reduce the resolution and quality settings).

Today I tried to play with only one dimm and I could play though the whole demo successfully. Then I played the demo again with the second dimm with the same results (actually I played at least ¾ of demo, until I got tired).

The memory so-dimms are perfectly ok, about a month a go I ran memtest86+ overnight and they passed 8 passes successfully. And I had the same results yesterday, when I tested each dimm separately for at least 2 passes.

 

nurio its a 2x1gb config. The box came here today. So I'll be sending it out tomorrow.

 

Mine is on its way to the depot. Will post follow-ups here.

 

I called IBM tech support on Thursday night regarding this issue, but because the memory I am having problems with was not from Lenovo, the tech rep requested that I run my tests with a Lenovo certified memory. He sent me another 512MB (the same size that came originally with the laptop), which I received Friday 9AM!

Then I ran the Bioshock test multiple times with the 2x512MB (Dual Channel) and I had no shutdowns!

This leads me to the following, either:
1. The memory sticks are defected – which I am not totally convinced that this is the problem, as they passed memtest86+ test successfully multiple times.
2. The T61(p?) is not handling properly higher load of memory – If you look at the Intel PM965 spec you’ll see that the chipset suppose to support 4GB @ 533MHz not 667MHz ( http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart.aspx?mmID=28116&familyID=7&culture=en-US). In my laptop the memory is clocked as 667MHz. From what I noticed so far, most users that are experiencing this problem have 4GB (3 out of 4, with the exception of Emilio). It might be that for ordinary tasks the chipset can handle the memory load stress, but if you add the high bandwidth from the FX 570m, it might be that it is hitting the ceiling. Now, I might have taken this theory too far…

Anyhow, I will try to find some time to go to one of Lenovo business partners to test out option #2.

Is anyone else who is experiencing this problem bought their memory from Lenovo? If not, what memory brand do you have?

 

....Regarding to #2, according to the link both 533 MHz & 667 MHz DDR2 RAM are supported by Mobile Intel PM965 Express Chipset.

 

I'm referring to the third line: "2 SO-DIMMs / up to 4GB Max System Memory @ 533 MHz"

 

Thanks for the clarification...If this is actually the case, do you know if T61p BIOS provides the option of setting FSB speed? Maybe by actually clocking those RAM @ 533 MHz will solve the problem.....I would have check this myself except my T61p is still on the production line.

 

For what it's worth, my laptop shipped with a 1GB DIMM and a 2GB DIMM. I replaced the 1GB DIMM with a 2GB DIMM from Crucial. I did try all combinations and was still having the problem (only lenovo 2gb, lenovo 1+2, crucial 2gb only, etc).... mine is on its way back now from the depot but the status page does not indicate what they did to remediate. I am calling them Monday morning (since they are 8-5 M-F) to find out what's up.