Re: R400: A build quality question

Hi...

First of all I apologize that I don't have a pic to share with you to help explain what I am talking about. So, you will either have to visualize this or relate it to a ThinkPad (preferably a R/T400) that you may have on you.

Over the past few days I found that the right edge (where the palm of the right hand sits while typing) was creaking. This is where the ThinkPad logo is on the palm rest.

On taking a closer look today I found that the palm rest (on the right hand side) has quite a significant 'play' on it. I mean, I can use my fingers to move the palm rest (but only on the right hand side) to move - by say 2 mm - up and down which makes the creaking sound. Initially, I thought there was a screw or something at the bottom which need to be tightened. However, when I flipped the laptop over, I find that there is no screw and the bottom right edge (unlike on the left hand side where there are 2 screws). There are 2 screws on the bottom right edge (mean the DVD Writer bay), but nothing at the corner, which is where the creaking takes place. At this point, I really wish I had a pic to share with you folks.

This is quite irritating. So, I wanted to ask whether (1) this can be fixed (2) will this be covered under the 3-year warranty that the machine came with and (3) can I do something about it without invoking the warranty? For the last question, if the answer is yes, then I'd appreciate it if you could walk me through it.

In other respects, however, the machine is excellent.

Thanks

PS: I have not dropped the machine or otherwise abused it in any way. I have used it everyday since I got it (about a fortnight back) for over 16 hours a day though.

 

You sure it's snapped in correctly? I don't see why the would deny warranty coverage. They'll probably send you a new one.

 

@ZaZ...Thanks. I'll call the Service people. Since the machine came with on-site warranty, they will come over to my place (I think). I also hope they don't give me a new machine (unless they move the HDD over to the new unit) and can fix the unit I already have.

 

I called the Service Center (in India) and I was told that apparently this is not covered by warranty! I checked the warranty and see no statement that either says it is under warranty or not. I was, however, advised to email a copy of my bill to Customer Care (Warranty) for the matter to be escalated (whatever that means!).

As I said before the machine is excellent. Very comfortable to work on etc. However, this problem is quite irritating given that I am on the machine for over 12 hours a day. I really do hope it can be fixed will minimal hassles and more importantly, quickly. But why am I not hopeful?

 

That seems odd. I'd try again. Perhaps a different rep will see if differently. If they give you the run around, I'd ask to speak to a supervisor and work your way up if need be.

 

it shouldn't have any play on the right side of the palmrest. Maybe you just need a new palmrest.

When you say no screw, do you mean you have a missing screw?

 

No. There is no place for a screw, which is what I find odd. Since you have a R400 do take a look. There is a screw near the DVD Drive bay, but nothing at the corner just beyond where the ThinkPad logo is (but on the underside).

I was also wondering about the warranty info that was given to me. Very strange isn't it.

Maybe I do need a new palmrest...the question is will Lenovo (India) give me one without any cost? Somehow I am not hopeful. But who knows.

 

I thought so too, which is why I spoke to one of their supervisors. He told me about this not being covered by the Warranty!

 

Take an assertiveness class.

 

I don't think it works in India...in UK...yes...in the US...yes...at least as per my experience. Blockheads populated these low-level CS jobs in India. Trick is to find someone high up (preferably in management) to do the assertiveness thing and it is difficult to get the contact info for these people. This is also the reason as to why I am considering emailing Mark (who you referenced in your recent review of the X200(?)) to see if he can lend some assistance in some way.

 

You have to call them to find out, just say that there is too much flex on the right side of the palmrest, and you would need a replacement.

There should be a screw just under the drive bay and above the hdd drive cover screw slot.

There is total of four screws that hold the palmrest in place.

Also do you have fingerprint reader on the palmrest?

 

No...no finger print reader. I saw your post about how to change the keyboard which has a section on removing the palm rest. I think if I got a replacement palmrest, I could fix it myself without waiting for these guys to show up and do their thing. The question is of course whether they would send me the palm rest in the first place or insist that I have to buy it.

 

whether or not they will send you the new palmrest, depends on how you explain the situation to them.

Explain to them that the palmrest creaks too much on the right hand side, and this could be defect during the manufacturing process, and that you need a new one sent out to you to fix the issue.

 

Yeah...I said that and followed it up with an email to their Customer Care (Warranties) for "escalation".

The phone call was not productive, and I have not yet got a reply to my mail. I guess I should wait till Monday evening to see what happens to my mail.

Edit: I have this feeling (and it is only a feeling) that if I was in the UK, I would have solved this problem much quicker than in India. For some reason, CS in India sucks!

 

Well folks...here is an update on the matter...

After I spoke to Customer Care, I was disheartened. So, I called up the ThinkPad Center here in Bangalore and they asked me to bring the machine over, which I did. It was a loooong drive, but that's another story.

Anyways, a technician saw the machine. Accepted the fact that there was a fair amount of movement and took it in to do something. A few minutes later, he brought it back and said it was fixed, which it was not. He then took it back in again!!! This time he returned with my machine and another R400. What I saw was disturbing. The machine he brought back was brand new. it too had the movement like on my machine. He then explained that since there was no screw to hold that particular section in place this kind of movement would take place. I did not believe him and told him so.

He went back in again and this time returned not with another R400, but his manager. And guys, let me tell you...she was a bomb!!!!! (Girls! My apologies, but she was really beautiful!)

She heard me out. Acknowledged my problem and was especially sympathetic given that the machine is less than 20 days old. She was frank enough to say that the problem should not have existed and that it could be fixed. When I asked her how, she said that they would have to reseat some parts (which I found - inspite of her being gorgeous and having a lovely voice and mannerisms - somewhat difficult to accept). Anyways, she told me to email her a copy of my complaint to the Customer Care (Warranties) and that she would take it up tomorrow.

She also said the following options are available and one of them would certainly apply in my case:

(1) Either with the clearance of Lenovo, they would re-fix the parts and then the palm rest which would apparently solve the problem...

Or, (2) Get this...Lenovo may want to replace the unit completely. She felt that this was more likely as the machine was less than 20 days old.

One other unrelated (or perhaps tangentially related matter). I wanted to prolong the experience of chatting with her. So I asked her about the keyboard. She was all savvy about the problems with the perforated plate. She said that if I could email her the FRU number of the keyboard then she would do the needful. The Keyboard would be free, but ThinkPad center would charge a small fee to set it up. Now, since I have read all these descriptions of how to install the keyboard, I probably don't need to go to the office. But...But...I did say that she is gorgeous...!!!!

I'll keep you folks posted on developments.

Cheers!

 

I have a late December 2009 build of the T400
On the right palmrest i also have a sort of clicking with some-what light pressure being applied.

Therefore i removed the hard drive and took a look inside with the aid of a flashlight.
Looking at it, i could see the underside fingerprint reader i/o board, the whole fingerprint reader is attached to the outer black palmrest, yet when you would apply light pressure near the reader you could see flex of the outter black palm rest and it would move down/inwards and make contact with the silver colored framework.
In addition there is a small piece of clear tape over the components of that exposed fingerprint i/o board that may come loose and make further contact with the install hard drive, i simply install a small paper shim between the black palmrest @ the silver framework using opening of the fingerprint i/o board.
This restricted that little room of play when flexed, no noise

 

@cyber16...Interesting! Thanks. Maybe this (or something similar) is what that ThinkPad girl was referring to. But my R400 does not have a fingerprint reader!

 

The fingerprint reader is not the problem that i had, i could see that movement of the i/o board which lead me to seeing the flex of the black palmrest making contact with the silver framework.

Therefore maybe you still have that flex making contact.

The underside of the reader simply aided in me seeing the flex as well as providing an opening to install a shim without the removal of the palmrest.

 

@cyber16...take a look at the righthand side edge where the palmrest meets the base of the machine. I can move the palmrest while keeping the base of the machine still. It looks like the fit between the palmrest and the base of the machine is not tight. This only happens at the edge where the ThinkPad logo is. Now, take a look at the same place but on the lefthand side. If you flip the machine over, you will see a screw at the edge/ corner. This prevents the movement from taking place. But if you look at the right-hand side, there is no screw in the sense that there is no provision for a screw.

When I was at the ThinkPad Center today, this is what these people pointed out. BUT...my question to them was that is this is design feature, then surely the consequences of the deliberate absence of a screw would (or should) have been worked out and compensated for.

What I do find interesting is that the ThinkPad Center folks are claiming that this can be fixed. I don't see how, unless they are able to fix a palmrest which snaps tightly into position, particularly on the right-hand side.

Do you see what I mean?

 

Well when/if they fix it, tell me how.
I stood my T400 up on the leftside, and was able to see that same movement you have on the RIGHT FRONT CORNER yet mine no longer makes the noise since the shim is in place.

Well it looks like i will remove the palmrest and see if i can shim/thicken that palmrest tab
on that end so it fits tighter
Maybe a small piece of tape on the tab then slide the palmrest in

 

Absolutely! I will post here how they fix it! They say that they will have it fixed in the next 3 days! Let's hope they do so. I remain mindful that one of the options that they have said is that they may replace the machine in totality!!!! I am assuming that if they do so, then they will replace my existing machine with exactly the same configuration.

 

Well it took me all of five minutes to remove the four palmrest screws.
Then applied a small piece of electrical tape over the notch on the metal frame on that right side that the palmrest tab would go into.

Then i removed the shim i had and took a small piece of soft weatherstripping foam and placed that on top of the metal frame just below the right palmrest over the hard drive cage area to minimize some of that flex as well.

My T400 front right corner is now tight

The tape trick will alone make that corner tight, i also wanted to attack a little of the flex while in there.
Yet this may only be a temporary fix since it simply adds a little pressure in that tad receiver area.

edit:
I think the they should have made that tab a a bit bigger and maybe moved it down further on the metal so that it was a tighter snugger fit to start with since there was no screws near that corner.

Nonetheless, i still would like to learn what the authorized fix/repair is.


You motivated me to look further into this, thank you.

 

@cyber16....I agree...though I have not yet seen the innards of the R400, I can guess what you mean about the tab being bigger. These are the small things that I think Lenovo (especially where TPs are concerned) should pay attention.

You can be sure that I will be grilling these Service people about what they do and how they do it and if possible get access to their work area (which in B'lore is quite hi-security for some reason) to see them do their thing!

On the other hand, if they give me a new machine, then aside from thoroughly checking it out, there is little I can do - maybe open it up and look inside!

You thank me for motivating you to look into this further! But I wish I motivated you in some other way, because this creaking sound and the movement - though relatively slight - is noticeable and for a finicky person like me is quite irritating!!!!

Edit: BTW, I asked this on another thread, but can you tell me if the keyboard of a T61 will fit in a R400? Thanx

 

I was also able to locate some niose that came from the hard drive access cover.
If you remove that cover then try to make that noise, you may find much of it gone.
Looking at the front end of that cover on the inside, there is a small plastic pin that then fits into the base of the laptop, that seemed to also have some play that made a little noise.

I wager since it looks like that cover is also the means to help tie those two together, they may have a newer cover or do something to the cover/that plastic pin to the pin fits tighter within the hole.

So pull out the screwdriver and remove the one screw that holds the hard drive access cover on, remove that cover and see if you still have noise?

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head! I think that is the only logical explanation, else how would they keep two pieces of plastic together without a screw or glue. Since they can't use glue (they need to be able to take the two plastic pieces apart) and they can't use a screw as it will get in the way of the HDD, that plastic pin and a corresponding socket is the only option they have left. I wish the fellow who looked over my machine today opened it in front of me!

Maybe a new cover (properly made) would fit into that socket tightly as perhaps it was originally designed to do!!!

+1 Rep to you!!!!

 

It just proves that creaking & clicking noise did not only bother you
I should also add that my hearing is not all that great after some juvenile stupidity and military service and i noticed it right away.

 

@cyber16...And can you imagine the stupid technician at the ThinkPad center was trying to tell me that this is common to all TPs!!!! I told him in front of his supervisor that he should not be maligning the reputation of the TP build quality!!!!!

The problem with these guys (at least in India) is that they try to take short-cuts all the time and they lack patience!!! If this guy would have taken the trouble to consider the problem, I guess he would have worked it out...but then again...that's how the cookie crumbles.

BTW, can you tell me if the T61 keyboard fits the R400?

 

Someone else will have to chime in on the keyboard.
It is my understanding that YES the T61 keyboard is plug & play for the T400 & R400.
The good keyboard i guess has blue colored compression rubber pads under the keys.
I have lived just fine with the keyboard flex & travel/feel of the T400 keyboard

 

@cyber16...OK. Thanks. The reason I asked is because the ThinkPad girl I referred to in my longish post above told me that if I gave her the FRU number she would be able to get the keyboard for me at no cost. If I wanted them to fit it in then I would have to pay the service change, which would be relatively cheap especially given the fact that I could (probably) chat her up too! And anyways, I think having a spare keyboard around is wise thing. I'll just take off the current keyboard and store it.

 

First update is that there is no update. There was a phone call from the Lenovo Warranty people who said they will call back in 24 hours, but no call came through.

I emailed them 3 times with no effect. I tell you the Lenovo/ ThinkPad people here in B'lore (India) suck big time.

Anyways, I am gonna try calling them tomorrow. In the meantime, here is an image of the problem area.

We are talking about the same thing right?

 

Well, I wanted to update the folks who helped out with comments and suggestions about what happened with the palmrest issue.

Earlier this evening, a brand new R400 was delivered to my home as a replacement machine for the faulty one. I have not opened the box as I told the IBM/Lenovo folks that I would do so only when their Service Engineer is around to check with me that the problem that I had with the original machine has indeed been fixed.

The Engineer is scheduled to show up tomorrow. I'll update this with one final post about how that goes.

This problem started with me reporting it to the Lenovo ThinkPad Center on March 20th and after jumping through numerous hoops, let's hope the new machine is problem free in ALL aspects.

Thanks again to all you folks!

Cheers!