Retro (IBM style) Lenovo Thinkpad confirmed for October 2017

Agreed, very disappointing if it's just a T470 with the old keyboard. There clearly is room on the display panel to fit a 16:10 screen, and to your point, shrink down the bezels to give the entire unit a smaller footprint (like they did with this year's X1 Carbon). Clearly, Lenovo does not want to build a 'perfect' laptop, just a whole bunch of flawed different models.

IMO, the best thing they could have done was simply take the X270, which also has big bezels, and fit a 16:10 13" screen in there and add the classic keyboard. If they needed to shrink the touchpad to fit the 7-row keyboard, so be it, 99% of Thinkpad fans that have been awaiting the Retro use the trackpoint anyway. Those two changes would give us a unit that has 1) the aspect ratio that everyone wants, 2) the keyboard that Thinkpad aficionados want, 3) a small, portable footprint that everyone would appreciate, 4) replaceable storage and memory which is true to the Thinkpad heritage, and 5) a replaceable battery with 6- or 9-cell battery options for super long battery life. This, in my opinion, would be the PERFECT 25th anniversary Thinkpad. I can understand why they used the T470 as the base, but the X270 footprint, with a 13" 16:10 screen, would be far more appealing to individual buyers (versus enterprise customers). And frankly, they really should just combine the mainline T470 and X270 into a 370 line, with a 13.3" screen and thin bezels. I doubt they will but if they did I would buy that in heartbeat over the X1 Carbon.

I will probably wind up getting the X1 Carbon if the Retro is what we see in the picture. I already have an X220 that is still going strong and imo is better than what the Retro looks like given that I like compact footprints.

 

But the X270 is single channel ram

 

In the Retro polls, 14" was the most preferred size, so going with a 12" chassis would be a weird decision. I think the X270 would be a terrible base for such a device too, considering all its other shortcomings compared with the T470 (single channel RAM, weak cooling, no drainage holes, size-reduced-keyboard, difficult to remove keyboard, grey body color instead of black). Also, 13.3" 16:10 is the same height basically as 14" 16:9.

 

I wouldn't have minded 13.3" 16:10, if the chassis had been revised to shrink around it. Even if 14", well the X1 Carbon shrinks the dead space around the screen so it's more compact and looks nicer.

I must admit, the standard Lenovo chassis seem to have an awful lot of space below the screen, sort of a hangover from 16:10, but all the screens are 16:9 (right ?). Maybe I'm wrong (I better look up some pictures of older models), or maybe there's some engineering reason (hinges below introducing flex / stress in that area, but if that's the case, how did the old 4:3 models get away with it as well as the X1 ?).

OK, I guess I'm nitpicking a bit, but well somehow the original idea seemed a little more custom / celebratory. Guess economics kicked in, anniversary or not. As I say, better than nothing, at least the keyboard is there, just would have been nice to get a bit closer to Hill's original rendering. Looking forward to the actual announce and specs anyway to see exactly what it is.

 

Well, you could put a high res (QHD) a 13.3" 16:10 screen and still get plenty of usable space, so I think the majority of people would take that over a 14" 16:9. Also, the X270 footprint does not have a reduced size keyboard to my knowledge. It's full size just without 3/4" of extra plastic on the sides like the T470 does. 1 DIMM slot should be fine for 99% of users (is 16gb not enough for productivity apps for anyone?). Also, it's very easy to remove the keyboard from my X220, I've replaced mine once - took 10min. And I really can't comment on your weak cooling point - haven't heard anyone complain about cooling in the 12.5" footprint specifically.

I am fine with a 14" screen, if they shrink the bezels and the footprint like they did with the X1 Carbon this year. But that isn't the case with the T470, which is just not a very attractive machine. It's relatively big, blocky and heavy (by today's standards), and unnecessarily so.

 

@wangs78,

it seems you don´t know the X270 too well. Here is a picture of its keyboard: https://www.notebookcheck.com/fileadmin/_processed_/5/b/csm_keyboard_fc23b0d0f1.jpg Its clearly shrunken down, which you can see if you look at the three keys right of the spacebar.

16 GB may be enough for most people, but Thinkpad users are often users who need more than the average user.

The design of the X220 is completely different from the X270. To remove the keyboard of the X270, you have to remove all of the internal components as well as the mainboard.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X270-Core-i5-Full-HD-Laptop-Review.211880.0.html

The system reaches 60 °C under load on the out casing.

 

You base this observation on?

 

Because ThinkPad-fans are often enthusiasts who know more about technology and thus also expect more.

Or would you say that the average user who buys a 500 $ laptop at Best-Buy has very high demands?

 

I asked for evidence, not your opinion. People here and say ThinkPads.com are enthusiasts. They tend to spend their own money for a notebook, so being here or there sort of skews the perspective because they're not the big buyers of ThinkPads. Large institutional buyers like government, corporations, education, etc., are. This is why you haven't seen ThinkPads for sale at Best Buy for quite some time. Institutions buy them by the 1,000s, then hand them out to sales reps and the like who don't need a ton of power for Office and email, so are unlikely to upgrade. A lot of them are probably locked down by the IT departments too.

There are any number of ways you could look at this that makes sense. Someone spending their own money at Best Buy on a notebook may be more curious and looking to upgrade than someone who just got their 12th free employer notebook and sees it as a tool that they just want to work.

 

@ZaZ,

so what is your point? I know very well that most ThinkPads are not bought by individual customers.

However, I fail to see how this is relevant in this thread and for this discussion. Because the model that is discussed here is targeting individual ThinkPad fans, not business.

So my point still stands that limiting the ThinkPad 25 to 16 GB would be a bad decision, because it specifically targets ThinkPad fans, not business customers, and individual ThinkPad fans who are interested in a 25th Anniversary model tend to demand more than corporate customers.

 

@hmscott @bloodhawk

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/70v8mq/o_shit_thinkpad_25_to_come_with_nvidia_940mx_bios/

 

Hey, it's "retro", what do you expect?

Besides, as someone commented in that thread, many people will want to turn it into a Linux laptop, and that's just fine for them.

It's not a gaming laptop after all...

 

I'm not sure I'd agree with your assessment that buyers of a dual core T470 retrofitted with an old school keyboard are power users who need 16GB+ of memory, though I'm sure there's a small chunk who will. I can do Office and Internet with 4GB of memory as half my PCs do. My guess would be they're in for the keyboard. A power user would gravitate towards the T470p or P51. Besides, if this is based on the T470, that already supports 32GB of memory.

 

@ibmthink

You might have some insight into this, or maybe not 16:10 screens exist, as Apple uses them. So how come no-one else does ? Are they more expensive (due to lower volume) ? Does Apple have a limited supply all allocated to themselves / get a custom supply (amounts to much the same thing). Do most manufacturers believe 16:9 screens are preferred by most users, or maybe most users are unfussed by the ratio difference ?

(Personally I'm not sure, as I haven't used a laptop with 16:9, both the ones I use are 16:10 - given the choice I'd stick with that, but it's probably not a deal-breaker).

 

Although not certain, there is a chance that this model is the last one with the classical ThinkPad keyboard to be ever released - so I would presume that a lot of people will want to use this for many years. In this case, 16 GB of RAM might not be enough for long-term sustainability.

Yes, these screens are Apple exclusive.

Most people don´t care and the screen industry prefers 16:9.

 

For long term use, the 2 core ULV cpu will be much more limiting factor than 16 GB ram. Nothing coming out of the OEM laptop industry is designed to last more than 3-4 years anymore either.

Its Hollywood and TV networks fault for releasing all their content 16:9. Manufacturers believe everyone watches their movies on their laptop, and this is more important than productivity.

 

I really doubt it. 8gb has been plenty for the vast majority of users for many many years now. Short of a new OS release that has massively greater memory requirements, 8gb will be sufficient for a long long time. Factor in the "power user" aspect of Thinkpad users that you mention, 16gb would be sufficient for the vast majority of power users too. You might be referring to the 1-2% of hardcore Thinkpad users who have no practical use for >16gb, but simply like to "know" they have more memory in their laptop than anyone else. I mean, 32gb paired with a U-class Intel processor and fast SSD drives is simple overkill.

 

New Pics
and specs confirmed to be same as T470






http://winfuture.de/news,99749.html#c3074021

 

Except the T470 doesn't have a 940MX

 

@bloodhawk @hmscott

Additional
https://liliputing.com/2017/09/lenovo-thinkpad-25-specs-pictures-leaked-ahead-launch.html

 

I'm torn. I want one...but I don't want retro to also be an apt description of the specs, and I'm sorry, a 940MX? I'd have preferred to see the 10xx series. I don't think a 1050 would have been out of line.

Part of me was hoping they'd secretly release it with one of those new quad core U series CPUs. Wishful thinking, and now I may just wait to see when a Thinkpad with that comes out. I'd love an X or Yoga w/ 32GB and a quad.

 

Your right, that would be the T470p. Very similar looking. Wouldn't be surprised if it was based off the T470p and not the T470. I don't think Lenovo confirmed any of the leaks. Reporters could have mistook one for the other.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenov...-i7-GeForce-940MX-Laptop-Review.226802.0.html

 

T470p mb seems different

T470 non-P has bga provision for a dgpu

Odd...

 

That GPU tho.

 

You can blame Nvidia taking nearly a year from pascal's release to release the MX150. And charging people's souls and narwhal ivory for pascal Quadro.

No way lenovo would ever put a GTX into any of their business laptops... That would be too exciting and scare away the suits

 

940mx is a total joke. I would still like to buy this but if they price this at a significant premium (more than 20%) to the regular T470 then I’ll skip it. Not going to pay an extra $400 for a keyboard and an obsolete graphics chip. I bought a Thinkpad Yoga 460 from BestBuy with i5 Skylake, 8gb ram, 256gb ssd and 940mx for $700 including taxes last year, so won’t be able to justify an unfair price on the Retro, keyboard be damned.

 

They should give it a retro price of $5000. The whole initiative seems like a big joke and marketing plow. Slap a T420 keyboard on a T470 and call it a day. Shoulda known.

 

It is a bit weird. No new chassis and associated changes takes some of the sparkle out of the idea. I guess the single most important feature got done - the keyboard. It is a new keyboard as well, as it's backlit. So having invested in that, what are Lenovo going to do with the part next ?

They could have debuted a new '80 series chassis with the Anniversary model, and then come out with the '80 machines at New Year, and spun it as "influenced by Thinkpad heritage and previewed in the special Anniversary model". I should be in marketing (actually, no I really shouldn't !).

Still not sure. In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestions on how to fix the wobbly screen hinges on my T410s, feel free to chip-in in the thread here. If I end up breaking the machine it'll be an Anniversary / X1C / MacBook Pro 13 for me. Spookily, a T470 is identical in size to a T410s to within a mm in width and thickness (and about a cm smaller in depth).

Maybe not a MBP, as the keyboard is even worse than the previous gen MBP's I believe, and those ones drive me nuts as it is - shame as the latest little MacBooks are otherwise really nice form-factor and hardware-wise, if rather expensive. Also OS X apps drive me nuts with all the different ways home/end, page-up/page-down, start/end of doc navigation works - why no consistency ?

Edit : poked around the Lenovo web-site, didn't realise the X1C doesn't come with a 16GB option on the low-end model so it ends up quite expensive as well, and the T470 doesn't have a higher than FHD resolution option (unlike the T470p and T470s).

 

This is a laptop I have been dreaming of, it's a shame I just bought my Evoc laptop earlier this year but I didn't think this laptop would ever truly come to fruition. A 940MX probably would be okay or decent enough to handle basic gaming on the go for me, plus have a much smaller lighter more professional looking laptop to carry around for work, and have a classic styled Thinkpad which I have wanted ever since Lenovo started making changes to everything. Part of me is tempted to still get this but I know I really don't NEED another laptop, but it's so tempting. I see a lot of people upset about the specs or what this is finally ending up as, and if you already have a current thinkpad or laptop and were trying to upgrade to or replace it with this, I get that it may not be that great or worth it, but for someone who has been waiting to get a new laptop and had been looking at a Thinkpad, this seems like a no brainer to grab this one instead of a normal 470 or another model.

 

That's soldered ram for you.

At least on the thicker models you can get ddr4 sodimms.

 

@hmscott @ThatOldGuy @bloodhawk

CTRL + F "thinkpad 25" in this document: https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles/n1zku17w.txt

 

Is the key travel on the old seven-row keyboard (before the 'retro') different to that on the 'island' keyboards, or the same ?

Edit : found @ibmthink saying on another forum "The keyboard has to be one with reduced travel. Old ThinkPads had 2.5 mm, newer models have 2.1 to 1.8 mm". Maybe losing a little (~20%) travel won't be the end of the world, though a bit of a shame ? Guess you can't know for sure until you try it and get accustomed (or unless you use one of the island keyboards regularly). Just something to be aware of.

 

IBM ThinkPad 701c (from 1995)

 

I though the new one is more than 2mm?

Not sure about the actuation force, around 70g?

 

Oct 4/5 there going to be a Thinkpad 25th event in Japan, hopefully something new...

 

>63% srgb

Well I guess I won't be buying this one.

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Lenovo-ThinkPad-25-Anniversary-Edition-Laptop.257452.0.html


@bloodhawk @hmscott

 

You're not the only one. I'm going to skip out on this. for that money, I'd rather have it put towards an OLED Yoga.

At any rate, a quad core ultraportable is what my next purchase will be. I've got an out of warranty Yoga 12 I've fixed up that can suit my portable needs for a while.

 

Yeah thats the biggest disappointment. Such a beautiful machine, targeted towards business people and at that cost, a garbage screen. *sigh*

 

I'm pretty sure that business customers would rather pick up the T470 cheaper with no dGPU.

The Thinkpad 25 should be targeted to enthusiasts imo.

 

And limited to 625 units in the EU.


hyperkek

 

I'll pass.

 

I'm going to pass. The mainline models are better buys. Lenovo had a great opportunity to do something special here, but instead they created something that will make many old-school enthusiasts finally move on to modern designs (which may not be Lenovo).

 

Lenovo Unboxed: ThinkPad Anniversary Edition 25
Official Lenovo Channel

Lenovo ThinkPad Anniversary Edition 25 First Look

Lenovo ThinkPad Yokohama Japan Labs Tour

Lenovo ThinkPad Anniversary Edition 25 Overview - Celebration Event at Yamato Labs

Unboxing Lenovo's ThinkPad 25th Anniversary Edition

Lenovo ThinkPad 25 Anniversary Edition HANDS-ON! Commemorating The ThinkPad

Lenovo ThinkPad 25 Anniversary Edition: One Cool Thing

 

Dim display -> definitely pass.

On side note, I personally am much happier with 6-row Modern Thinkpad keyboards than with 7-row Classic. The non-remappable Previous/Next keys (or how do you call those on the sides of UP arrow) instead PgUp/PgDn were a constant nuisance, and while I learned to avoid them in time, I shed no tears for Classic keyboard after switching to newer Thinkpad.

 

I'm thinking the $1,900 price tag is what will make me pass.

 

Can't find a price on the UK (lenovo.com/gb) website. Is it available here ? Did it sell out ? No idea. Think they called it the T25 because they're going to make about 25 of them ;-)

 

They may roll it out slowly, with the US getting first choice. If you configure the T470 similarly, it's about $1,400, so basically they're asking you to pay $500 for a keyboard and for $1,900, you don't even get the good WQHD LCD. Kudos for Lenovo listening to their customers and some will be willing to pay the premium, but I am not one of those people. $500-600 is what I am willing to pay these, which is what I paid for my ProBook, but at that price it won't be perfect.

 

Think I'm going to pass.

The rationale is as follows.

CPU - don't mind, whatever it has is light years ahead of my T410s, so it's more than good enough for browsing / email / light photo editing / casual programming (e.g. online courses).

GPU - don't mind, having a dedicated GPU (even not the latest and greatest) is fine, might speed-up a few things, and if I ever get around to learning about GPU programing it's handy to have it on the laptop. If it was an integrated GPU I wouldn't mind either, but marginally prefer discrete.

Keyboard - yeah ! It's got a good one, this was a must.

Screen - hmmm, not pleased, I don't need touch, sounds like the quality is so-so. It would be a big upgrade over my old screen, but if I'm paying for a new machine I'd really want a hi-res, top-notch screen (Windows scales OK these days ? OS X does). I would have preferred 16:10 (or 3:2), but understand it's difficult, but 16:9 is still a bit annoying though.

Chassis - if you're making me pay for a new machine I really want tight dimensions around the screen and keyboard. Just a nicer, more compact machine is always good, this one just doesn't look 'special' enough.

Other - I would have liked status lights, I do look at the HDD one, and anyway they're just iconic for classic Thinkpads. OK, if I really, really must I can put up without them. Thinklight, hmm, I'm OK to swap to a backlit keyboard.

Price - I don't know what the UK price is, but it's going to be quite expensive, so all the nitpicks above add up, and I just don't feel like paying what would be a significant amount of money for something that has a few too many compromises. Weirdly, if it had a better screen / chassis, and cost 20% more, I might have been OK with it - "close your eyes and pay, it's pretty much what you wanted !" (Would that make it substantially more expensive than, say, a Macbook Pro ? That's sort of an upper bound I guess, somewhere around that level is probably OK, but not lots more).

Now, if I break the T410s in trying to fix the wonky hinges, the equation alters a bit, because then I have to buy _something_ ! Would a T25 be the best of a so-so bunch of choices, maybe. I sort-of want an X1 Carbon with the new keyboard (OK, the level of integration and expense to get it that slim is not really the essential factor, rather the nice tight packaging plus the new keyboard please).

P.S. surely this new keyboard will be an option on some new '80 series Thinkpads ? It's been developed, and must be easy to drop in, given minor accommodation in the design of the new models ?

 

I would opt for the old style keyboard just because I'm quite curious to how it feels.

Wouldn't pay money for it though, the new style chiclet keyboard is good enough for me.

 

5K worldwide, EU 625 units limited.


Most of it is going for sale in Japan or USA.





The only reason I would buy one is to upcharge people in 3rd world country.