SL and R series gets axed, replaced by L series

According to Anandtech, who also apparently has some pics of the upcoming L series, the R and SL series are being axed in favor of the new L series.
I guess it makes sense considering I felt the 14 and 15 inch segments were already crowded. You have the G, SL, R, Edge and T series that all have 14 and 15 inch models. I guess something had to give. I kind of wish they would have kept the R series though, from everything I've read it appears to be a nice model. I think instead they should have axed the G, Edge and SL, and put just the L in their place. That would have made the L (value line) -> R (mainstream) -> T (corporate).

 

There is a G series thinkpad now?

T series is now both mainstream and corporate. Since the price has dropped, and the fact that the base of the T510 and W510 have grown in thickness, which now uses Ultrabay Enhanced rather than the Slim drive of the old.

Effectively the new T510 is the progeny of T500 and R500, or Lenovo's cost effective take of Frankenpad.

 

No G series thinkpad, still the Essential series, I was just talking about all the available 14 and 15 inch models.

 

Thank God the SL series is finally over and done with.

 

Now, let's see how this new "L" series will hold up.
Looks great for the average consumer (ie- non business type).
Looks almost identical to the SL series.

 

It is the same thing isn't it, just with some recycled plastics. Also I vaguely remember us seeing a G series mentioned in some driver update or something.

I don't know how much you can differentiate the product lines...

 

yes now we got the L series, which so far looks to be pretty much similar to the SL series, don't know how much better L is over SL series mechanically.

 

I think since the L series is meaning to replace the R-series, they probably worked on trying to up the quality a bit over the SL series.

 

They change the keyboard for the L series, it only has 6 rows instead of traditional thinkpad 7 rows. Does the SL series have 6 or 7 rows keyboard?

 

yeah it's the same keyboard as the SL

 

It seems like every Thinkpad is designed by a different group. Why go backwards in keyboard design? T400s had it perfect...although I would still like dedicated media controls.

 

The T series keyboard didn't revert back to anything worse. The X series didn't update though with the new T series keyboard.

 

Based on the AnandTech article, I think when I shop for my next ThinkPad, I will go for the T-series or its equivalent. Why?

From one of the comments to the article:

The L-Series notebooks are missing such T, X, R, W features as:

- Crash cage body. Its a plastic tray in the L. (Most important)
- HD anti-shock protective cage (On better Thinkpads, they have rubber corners).
- ThinkLight (LED light that makes the keyboard usable in the dark)
- hex-cage for LCD display (14" models)
- ThinkPad keyboard layout, which was improved with the T400s before spreading out to other Ts.
- Latch, okay and opinion. But it does keep accidental openings.
- Metal hinges for LCD screen. Not so sure what they are using, but its not like T/R/X series hinges.
- Thinkpad rubberized top (Used to make the notebook anti-slip)

As things stand, I love the R400 that I just got and while I would have liked the T series machine, I could not wait for the 3 weeks that I was told it would take to get it. Plus the fact that I got an excellent price with excellent specs for the R400.

 

The T410s, T410, T510 and W510 all use the same keyboard layout as the T400s. These are what some people refers to as the Thinkpad Classic line.

- Crash cage body. Its a plastic tray in the L. (Most important)
You mean the magnesium rollcage internal chassis?
- HD anti-shock protective cage (On better Thinkpads, they have rubber corners).
- ThinkLight (LED light that makes the keyboard usable in the dark)
- hex-cage for LCD display (14" models)
That is also called the rollcage
- ThinkPad keyboard layout, which was improved with the T400s before spreading out to other Ts.
- Latch, okay and opinion. But it does keep accidental openings.
- Metal hinges for LCD screen. Not so sure what they are using, but its not like T/R/X series hinges. The hinge on the L series are metal, but it is not stainless steel one that other Thinkpads use
- Thinkpad rubberized top (Used to make the notebook anti-slip)
many R series never had the rubberised surface finish, which kept the cost down

 

Probably just took the old SL's nobody bought (yes i know exageration), since they had so many of them, and slapped a laptop "body kit" on them and just called them something new.

 

So, I have heard, though my R400 does have the rubberised surface finish, which I only noticed today is a strange (dark and dull) bluish colour and not black.

 

The T61 14.1 inch widescreen and the R400 use many of the T61 and T400 parts. This is also why the R400 has the top case magnesium rollcage.

 

Considering all this does it not appear that Lenovo is trying to blurr the lower end of the Thinkpad line with the top end of the consumer line? Though, I have no idea as to how the consumer line of Lenovo is - never used either the low end or high end ones.

 

Wow. You mean they removed almost all the distinctive features that make a ThinkPad a ThinkPad and left you with little more than a black notebook? Talk about tarnishing the brand…

 

Most of the Lenovo consumer laptops are probably not even fully designed by Lenovo, they are more like JDM/ODM products, which is a common practice with Dell and HP nowadays to save on R&D costs.

Y410, Y530 and Y510 used the same adapters as some ASUS, Toshiba and Acer laptops, which gives you a hint of common heritage they share.

http://cgi.ebay.ph/19V-3-42A-AC-Adapter-Lenovo-IdeaPad-Y430-Y510-Y530-/200342741742

have a look at the compatibility list of these adapters...

 

That's what it would appear! But note that the list that I posted was taken from one of the comments from the original AnandTech article that was posted at the beginning of this thread.

@ lead_org...gosh! I did not know this. Amazing list of "compatibility"!

 

Here is a photo of SL410 LCD hinges.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=4569361763

 

imo it is a very bad practice to confuse general consumers with this L/SL series 'thinkpad' as we can obviously see they dont really have the distinct thinkpad's qualities. and since they are now taking away R series too so they are targeting this L series the mainstream consumer product then?great,if more people buy it the more people will think thinkpads are just average laptop

and eventually maybe lenovo will disband David Hill's team too

 

I don't know about disbanding David Hill's team...though given the consumerist approach that Lenovo seems to be taking towards the ThinkPad brand in the first place, it would seem that they are trying to exploit the 'cult-like' image (brand value?) of ThinkPads (which began from the IBM days). I had recently posted an article that appeared in the Indian newspapers that alluded to this shift though indirectly. Maybe I should have drawn the conclusions from that....

I want my ThinkPad to be distinctive - both in terms of its looks and in terms of its durability/ performance - something that this blurring of brand distinctiveness may affect. Of course, Lenovo's marketing and product management teams would have crunched the appropriate numbers to support this, but still, the more i think about it, the more I'm like

 

Though truth be told which "Thinkpads" are in the retail channels? That's what will matter. The corporate purchases will have IT guys making the decisions so they can handle the units themselves to see how they are.

 

Lenovo themselves are actively targeting the consumer market. In the 2009, they have record a huge loss, because they focus too much on the corporate customer. Buy going offering product like the Edge and L series they are looking to expand their customer base. I not saying that I agree with this practice, but that how Lenovo see as how they could reduce risk in the next couple of years.

 

It is pretty inevitable considering how little loyalty there is in corporate purchases for mass laptop rollouts. I know my company has been back and forth Dell, Lenovo, Dell with 2-3 year business leases.

I guess they might as well try and leverage the Thinkpad line among consumers as much as possible.

 

But would it not make sense for Lenovo to create a consumer-centric brand rather than diluting a highly regarded Enterprise-specific brand? Or, am I mistakenly assuming that the ThinkPads are a "highly regarded Enterprise-specific brand?

 

It's a thin line between love and hate. Sure, Lenovo could create a new brand, but it will not have the same recognition that ThinkPad does. Lenovo runs a risk here too. If they make too many substandard ThinkPads, it dilutes the brand, which has consequences for all ThinkPads.

 

Lenovo is relatively new company in term of US public brand image. The want to leverage the Thinkpad name recognition. Lenovo has worst brand recognition than Gateway, but people know about Thinkpad. I guess they are taking a risk in expanding the Thinkpad line. As long as they still make the traditional T and X series I could care less.

Now, I'm just waiting for them to put decent screen on the X and the T series.

 

More consumer level Thinkpads = more consumers buying Thinkpads = more money for R&D for future professional-grade Thinkpads = better professional-grade Thinkpads.

 

I really do HOPE that this is the case here.
IMO, they are just cheapening the image of what a Thinkpad SHOULD be like. (AKA: T, R, X, W, series).

 

I don't see why they couldn't keep the R series though. Though I suppose if they upgraded it to arrandale, it would be just like the T series basically. So I guess there's no point to keep it around. Still like others have said, I don't like the idea of them cheapening the brand. :\ Now that I have a thinkpad, and loving it, I don't want any other brand, and I hope it stays that way (the quality that makes a thinkpad that makes me want a thinkpad).

 

The funny thing is that the Thinkpad brand has very little visible recognition. As in the design is muted and unassuming, not standing out.

So in essence Lenovo is taking the goodwill from the brand name and then trying to create some more visual brand recognition in the new Edge as a teaser. But considering how most consumers are oriented in their laptop purchases, I don't see it being a good hook to get them interested in the traditional Thinkpad models.

So I can see it being a worthy investment risk. As long as IT purchasers know what they are getting and consumers stay attracted to the flashier models, there isn't really a problem on those ends. The issue I could see is for small businesses assuming the SL/L series is as durable and have a nasty surprise when something happens to the machine.

 

Probably does not (or will not) work that way. Since Lenovo wants to make money they will have to walk a fine line between rationalizing the costs of making ThinkPads to make them attractive to the baseline consumers. This would imply that they will begin to cut corners, which will drive down the quality levels generally associated with ThinkPads. While this may allow them to increase marketshare and probably profit margins, but then the focus would have to shift to the consumer market (which is probably more profitable anyways). So, the money earned would be earmarked to developing that market segment rather than in investing in R&D for future professional-grade ThinkPads. One other fall out would be that Lenovo (here assuming that they continue to maintain a core professional-grade ThinkPad product like) would increase the prices of such machines. Regardless, the brand-image will take a hit. In other words, based on the discussion thus far and some articles on this, Lenovo is putting their key brand at some risk and is betting on increasing marketshare and returns. Whether this will work is open to question and is dependent to a large extent on whether they can maintain and keep upgrading the build-quality and performance of the ThinkPad lne-up. In a consumer-centric environment, this is probably not going to happen...but who knows, the Lenovo folks must have 'gamed' this out in some detail.

 

These type of hinge design are commonly used in many standard type consumer laptops, the hinge itself is made of steel and there is usually a plastic case protecting it from dirts. Stainless steel hinges used on Thinkpads are actually quite expensive to make, and there is only a few companies that makes them.

Lenovo entered the western markets hoping that its new name and flashy new ideapads would woe the consumers there (Thinkpads were still in the exclusive domain of corporate and professionals). However, they just don't have the marketing and sale power of 'Big Two', Dell and HP (HP mainly) in most electronics and big box stores. In Australia for every one ideapad in stores, there is at least 10 different other HP laptops and 3 to 4 Dells.

Most Aussie consumer purchases the consumer HP laptops because there is always some promotion going on here in Australia, this probably is how the American markets works too. So Lenovo didn't gain much market from its competitors, even Acer ate into Lenovo market share pie.

Lenovo brand by itself doesn't enough pull for the regular consumers, so they are using both Lenovo + Thinkpad to get more audiences. Lenovo is already discounting the Thinkpad Edge series at 35% off on Lenovo.com.au.

Many Chinese bloggers are saying that Lenovo is becoming more US centric, and is using profits from other countries to maintain subsidies given to the American consumers.

Old Lenovo way of doing business:

Ideapad (consumer line) + Thinkpad (Corporate + Business Professionals) = Lenovo dwindling sales Revenue and the shrinkage of market share.

New Lenovo way of doing business:

Ideapd (Consumer line) + Thinkpad general consumer/para-professional range (Edge, X100e, L, etc) + Thinkpad professional/classic range (X, T, W series) = Hopefully equal to expanding market share.

Keen pricing + Thinkpad name + glossy/multi-tone/rounded edge design of Thinkpad hopefully is enough enticement for consumers to take up the Lenovo branded products.

More sales profit won't necessary mean more money for R&D in Thinkpad Classic/professional grade. These money would probably be used to expand the consumer and para-professional Lenovo laptops/desktops.

 

Well...what you say was probably true when ThinkPads were under the IBM label (because of the overbearing brand image of the Big Blue in the first place). But as soon as it moved into the Lenovo portfolio, it assumed a life of its own. In fact, the muted design and the unassuming look backed by an excellent build quality and performance was enough to leverage the brand. I agree with you in the sense that perhaps Lenovo did not use this to their advantage. But the way (if what we are speculating here is true) then their brand-leveraging strategy is a high-risk game and if things don't work out in the long run (which is always a possibility), they not only stand to lose a lot of money, but also damage (possibly fatally) a valuable brand-asset.

 

This is true in the Indian market as well, where there is a sudden boom in the laptop segment. Every third laptop is either an Acer or a Dell. Ideapads are not very common and ThinkPads are generally seen on highlevel university campuses (primarily in those who are involved in the sciences and technology fields) and in some high-profit industry sectors (like consulting, IT etc.)

 

Given the price of laptops nowadays, there is more profit to be made from the regular consumers (more customer base) than from the corporate customers (more profits per machine but smaller in size compared to consumer market).

Computer companies on most part are operating like Walmarts now, they earn more money by moving more of low profit margin products... they are no longer a boutique company like when IBM first released their Thinkpads, where price skimming is the order of the day.

 

That already happens. Go read our SL board sometime. I even saw a message yesterday on the IdeaPad board complaining that they had assumed their IdeaPad would be like a ThinkPad.

 

Yeah...probably, but in the process the brand equity of ThinkPads (as we "purists" understand it) runs the risk of becoming diluted. Is this therefore a move to "consumerize" the ThinkPad?

 

Unfortunately for Lenovo, purists still love and use their T43 and T60 range of thinkpads with IPS LCD. Most purists are most likely Gen X and late stage Baby Boomers. Those born in the late 80s and early 90s are more likely to favour Apple products or Alienware.... they may buy and use thinkpads, just like a regular laptop and would probably question why it looks so black and bland.

Just look at what purists own in Thinkpads.com, they is probably a lot of people whom still have their T4x and T60 laptops, ask them how they feel about IPS and standard aspect ratio format.

Youtube video blogs give you a hint of these people.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/21/lenovo_big_loss/

This is why lenovo want and need to diversified their portfolio, when their is economic problem, their business decline. But if you look at consumer-based notebook, that segment's change is rather small.

 

Lenovo definitely bought the Thinkpad line from IBM with a lot of goodwill attached to it. Also remember they bought the rights to use the IBM logo for a couple years.

I admit that I don't mozy over to those forums unless someone links me. I think those instances with the case of the SL/L brand are unfortunate. The IdeaPad line, however, is clearly delineated.

Though I think consumers would appreciate the business level support that Thinkpads have, the name of that game for all the OEMs is to not be so willing to help under warranty claims.

 

the use of IBM logo will allow Lenovo to get more market recognition, remember that before the purchase of IBM PC/laptop business, no one outside of China/Asia have even heard of Lenovo as a computer company.

Basically Lenovo hopes that by piggybacking on the IBM brand, more people would associate Lenovo as a company like IBM was/is, which is an innovation driven business enterprise that produces quality high tech products.

 

Interestingly, it appears - as per the article that jaredy linked to - that Lenovo is targeting the "emerging markets".

The quote from that article is as follows:

" Effectively, Lenovo’s latest reshuffle underlines its clear intention to batten down the hatches and concentrate on emerging countries and its own domestic market where the company is being handed government subsidies for computer purchases in rural areas, according to Bloomberg."

 

That article is almost a year old. I think to some degree it's just a difference world. 10-15 years, when IBM was building the ThinkPad brand image of quality, laptops were much more expensive. A typical ThinkPad cost $2-3k. Those who tended to have them were on the higher end of the income range or got them from work. These days without too much effort pretty much anyone can have a notebook if they want. I think that's a good thing. It's a tricky path for Lenovo how to expand the brand without diluting the image. Perhaps call the Edge, SL, L, et al, the WorkPad or something similar.

 

But now Lenovo - aside from the ThinkPad brand - cannot leverage the IBM brand can they? I think their agreement on using the IBM brand expired some time ago - though the servicing of ThinkPads (at least in India) is still done by IBM.

 

Precisely, which is why I wonder if it would not have been better for Lenovo to have created a consumer-specific brand and put their weight behind it. Also, the IdeaPad brand was an odd one in the sense that it tried to maintain some links (in terms of maintaining a resemblance to the ThinkPad name) with the ThinkPad. Maybe they should have opted for a completely distinct brand and pushed it hard with competitive pricing and an excellent warranty/ service backup in the consumer segment - particularly in the "emerging markets".

Edit: Here is the link to a more recent article, specifically from the Indian market perspective. It is dated April 20, 2010.

 

The IBM logo was just the boost to get them to the global stage, now Lenovo have to fend for itself using its own brand. Acer is the one to watch out for..

Lenovo got quite a few brands going, but these laptops are marketed in China only. Competitive pricing requires a large volume, and Lenovo doesn't have that level of volume to compete against the likes of HP.

Also, you can only go so far as price cutting before it eats into the profits, and regular consumer laptops are not that expensive (profit margin is pretty low). India has high tariffs for imported goods just like China, so unless the computer manufacturers move their plants into India, there is little likelihood that price would match that of US market.

And most manufacturers won't move, because the production/supply triangle is in China. The production facilities in China is so close to South Korea, Taiwan and Japan, where 99% of the computer parts are produced. Most of the large Contract Manufacturers are Taiwanese companies, and it is easier for the Taiwanese engineers and managers to live in China than it is to live in India, due to cultural and language barrier.