Screen Kudos and Complaints...

That's right, vote people. It's not the best way to do it on a forum, but hopefully this will organize some of the opinions out there.

Post if you have a switched screen you would like to address in the thread, i.e., if you sent in and have a new one that is better/worse - please vote for the screen you received INITIALLY AS WELL AS REPLACEMENT. Please post here for your experience in having the exchange done as well.

The poll is multiple election enabled so that we can see your satisfaction ratings on both replacement and initial models as well as trying to break down if this is a WSXGA+ problem, which in the case of Dell was where a problem came up.

 

Bump, free bump, bump, bump, bump.

 

My Samsung WUXGA has already dead pixels (It's only been 2 months).
And the screen bleeding is just horrible. I'm dissatisfied!

 

Yikes and that is the highest resolution, so you must have paid the premium. Are you having it sent in?

 

No. You can only replace it after X (not sure exactley how many. 5, I think) dead pixels. But my dead pixels still haven't reached that number.

 

Ah geez, gotta love having little red or blue dot sprinkles. Other than that, do you like the WUXGA res?

 

My 14" LG screen has awful vertical viewing angle, but other than that, it's not terrible.

 

14.1" Samsung screen and I have no problems with it.

 

That is what I have been reading here and on the Lenovo forums. I really think this is a WSXGA+ problem. I thought I could avoid it by going with a Lenovo, but I couldn't select 1440x900, which seems to have a better LG likelihood. The only option was the higher res, which I thought was a plus, since they are usually more expensive. Now I see that it seems to be the same with the Dell folks because there are more 1680x1050 problem samsung screens for them. Thanks for the input.

 

How about posting some pictures if you are dissatisfied with your screen...? I'm perfectly fine with my screen and overall pretty satisfied, but would love to see some extremes of the issues you guys are facing.

 

I will get some up a little later, but the problem is that my camera is a wide zoom, so there is distortion in the center. I'll post them tonight or tomorrow, and hopefully you can see.

 

Here are two photos comparing my T61's Samsung WSXGA+ to my external LCD monitor:

http://mail.rochester.edu/~chacker/t61lcd.jpg
http://mail.rochester.edu/~chacker/t61lcd2.jpg

It is not the greatest comparison, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it.

You should be able to see the graininess in the white and gray backgrounds (note white balance is different for each shot; I left it on AWB.)

You should also be able to see the horrible horizontal lines, too, which is my biggest complaint. Despite the moire visible here, the picture on the external LCD is perfectly smooth in person. Go to the link at top of the first image ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/penguinchris/) to see how that image looks on your screen.

Here's a shot showing the viewing angles:
http://mail.rochester.edu/~chacker/t61vangle.jpg
It actually seems worse than the pictures portray, though - you may think the picture is slightly exaggerated, but it's not. The shots were taken on a tripod with exposure set manually so it was the same each time.

For the curious:
I took the shots using a Canon 40D on a sturdy Manfrotto tripod with a remote shutter cable with 70-200mm and 10-20mm lenses. I left it on AWB, shot in RAW and imported in Photoshop - no further edits made.
I am running opensuse 10.3 with XP in VMware for photoshop and lightroom, and it works great - excellent performance (with 3gb ram.) Now if I can get a replacement screen that looks tolerable, I'll be all set.

 

Oh wow that's... bad...

 

After a couple of days I got used to the res. But I think it's still a bit too much. Sometimes it's hard to read.

I recommend a lower res.

 

penguinchris - yours is even worse than mine.

 

That is exactly how mine looks. The link with the images of the viewing angle is exactly what my display looks like. I have the exact same problem with the banding - the lines are very visible. And the whites are uneven. Exactly, exactly what I am talking about. Glad that you have a camera that can do better macro shots than mine. WSXGA+ strikes again.

 

Well, the polling is pretty inconclusive simply out of the fact that not enough people have voted. LG users may not even be on the forums because of the fact that they're happy with their purhcase and Samsung numbers are higher becuase users are out to resolve their issue.

However, in visitng the HP and Dell forums, it seems that issues with Samsung screens, with a resolution of WSXGA+ in particular has proved to be a trouble product. I don'thave color or graininess issues, but viewing angles are definitley not even bordering on decent as was illustrated in the pictures above.

Anyone up for a class action... against Samsung?

 

Same with mine.

 

You can see some shots comparing the LG screen on mine to the screen on my old Asus in the review I did (link in my sig)... the Lenovo certainly takes a beating in the comparison - dull colours, and noticeable dithering

 

Well I got my laptop back - they did not replace the screen just the cable!! Wtf? I am so livid right now. I am wondering if I should upgrade my warranty before I make another call. I am soooo upset!

 

Not good news. What good would upgrading your warranty do though? I was under the impression that you just received your notebook recently.

Seems like the best thing to do would be to just call them again and express your dissatisfaction...and hope to get an empathetic rep on the other end.

 

In all honesty, just sell it Techno_techie. I would not waste any more of your money with them. Even if you paid for a new screen, how would it help? They would just slap on another one of their screens and it could have the same issues. Then you are in the same boat all over again, but this time out more money. The machine can be built like a tank but what is the use if you hate to use it? The screen is very important and could be argued to be the most important part.

Your problem is like my nightmare come to life. I thought to myself, what would I do if I bought a T61 and this happened? I knew most likely their CS wouldn't help me. So the only thing I could think of was sell it!

 

Well, selling is an option, but I would need to make more than my 15% loss. I would sell it for exactly or a little less than what I purchased it for because I really did get a major deal, but I did call and ask for a return box.

I HATE this! I thought this would work for everything, photoshop, video editing, and now...usually my research does not backfire, but this time it did.

 

SO you have already committed to returning it to Lenovo? I still think you can make out better by selling it on ebay. I sold a thinkpad on ebay recently and did ok. I too like a $100 loss, but was defenetly better than the 15% restocking fee. Just some food for thought.

I feel bad for you. I could easily put myself in your place. It is because of this that I still haven't decided on a laptop. I was this close to buying the Thinkpad but stopped myself for this exact reason. What if I got a crappy screen, then what? I knew that they most likely would not help me.

What do you think you will do now? Have any ideas on a replacement?

 

I am awaiting a reply from the Tech support (really, Mark asked for test subjects to send their machines in for the engineers to look at). I had them send me a box in case - I figure that I can cancel a return request - they shouldn't have a problem with a cancellation - they can't charge me anything, so I will hold onto the box. I think my better option is to sell it - so having the box will be good if I need to ship it to a buyer. I hate to part with it! It was such a good price and top-of-the-line components but for the screen. We'll see what Mark says - I am out of the return period as of yesterday, my only option may be to sell it. Hopefully we have made enough noise, firesnake, so that you can buy a lenovo without a crappy screen, because I can tell you that it really isn't an ugly laptop, and I got the greatest stretch of my dollar out of them.

Hold out for a couple of weeks and they may reach a solution - I really want them to do a comparison of the screens so that they can see the color and viewing angle difference. I just find that the gradient wave in the screen, and the dirty grays and whites are very distracting. It really brings the quality of the machine down. But it is so quiet - you can barely hear the fan.

 

When I asked about dead pixel policy with sales before ordering, I was told it was 8 which I thought seemed high.

 

I love the look of the machine, I don't think it is ugly at all. All black is cool with me. I have been waiting forever to buy the T61p. First I waited a long times for the 2 DIMM issue to be resolved, which Mark helped to resolve. Now I am waiting on the screen issue. It seems every time I go to buy it, something major stops me. If I buy this machine I think I will have to take a considerable risk at this point. The stories with customer support don't help either. I don't think I will wait much longer though, will probably decided this way or that way soon.

 

All right, update:

Mark left a post on the forum stating that the issue is not "one-sided" and that there seem to be plus and minus issues for both screens. He said that the screen part is a valid part to build with, which I guess means it meets certain (low-ball) standards. Right now, he wants more users to send in their machines for more testing to widen the survey pool, which does make sense considering they tested two, I believe. Right now, I am working on some photos to post and also toiling through the decision of selling or replacement of the LCD. Right now, prices aren't as good as they were, so repurchasing may be difficult on the fiscal side of things.

 

I have a 14.1" screen but I can't tell what make. I tried using their parts lookup thing but didn't find anything. It seems pretty okay to me. All I can say is my friend's 14" widescreen is brighter than mine. However, I do know that it can run 150hz with little visual artifacts (feint yellow vertical lines on darks)

 

I understand their desire to moderate this and get more info before jumping to any big conclusions and I appreciate that they're taking the time to investigate, but the fact still remains, that out of the box the Samsung is absolute crap compared to the LG. I should know, my T61p shipped with an LG which was great for a laptop LCD up until a problem developed with it that warranted a replacement. The replacement was a Samsung despite my best efforts and without any tweaking it was a world *below* that of the LG.

Fortunately, there are some things that can be done to improve things by a big margin if you have an nVidia GPU. Among other things, try adjusting the Digital Vibrance setting to around 30% or so as well as taking a nice cut out of the blue gamma channel (I have mine at 35% for blue gamma). This improved the overall color balance TREMENDOUSLY and added some much needed life to all colors.

The viewing angles are still not as good as the LG was, and there is a noticeable "grid" pattern in the horizontal direction if you look for it, as well as a moderate amount of what has become known as "grain" or "sparkle". Overall, it's still not quite up to what the LG delivers, but tweaking it made it much MUCH better. Try it and see if it those adjustments make it workable for you, they just might.

You might ask if, in the end were I given the chance to swap this panel for another LG, would I take it? Most likely yes. It's still simply a significantly better panel than the Samsung.

 

I agree and appreciate the fact that they are investigating (but certainly after some noise was made). Products should not ship like that when there are low-quality components - I could've purchased an XPS for just $100 more and their warranty would have been great if I was dissatisfied with anything, but the Thinkpad looked so good - and though I like the design of my sister's inspiron and the photos of the XPS, the T61 is really beautiful and just nicely stream-lined in its design, I mean, it really is a nice shape. At least LCDs can be replaced - I don't know what component I would want them to cut corners on if they had to - if the LCD is crappy, maybe that saved me a bad mobo, etc.

 

My T61p WUXGA have the grainy (snowy, too dim, poor viewing angle and so on) Samsung LTN154U2-L05. I really can't keep up with it. Or to tell the true, I can use it until I got back on the T61 or the T60p ! And when I get back to the T61p, I start crying...

My wife T60p have a TMD witch is Toshiba Matsu****a Display (don't remember the ref) 14" WSXGA panel and the office T61 uses 14.1" WXGA+ LP141WP1-TLB7 (LG/Philips). Both are bright with true white, good viewing angle and any grain effect. Rendering is nearly as nice as with my Dell 2407 WFP and 2408WFP. I really enjoy those two Thinkpads screens.

 

So when my t61p gets here tomorrow with a samsung screen, and I think it looks a tiny bit bad, should I call and complain and get it replaced? I don't really want to be without my laptop for more weeks... but... if it is necessary...

 

There is no guarantee that they will replace the panel - I have already tried.

Update from Mark:

No very great difference from him, so that means no satisfaction for those of us who got a grainy screen, LG or Samsung, and didn't send it in for research since they took around 3-4. I am so sad that I went with a T61! I should have researched the customer support before purchasing. However, thanks to the NBR community, this place is really great for research - just make sure you cover all points. Now I shall ponder what to do...

 

Just for my curiosity...

If you had not bought a T61, what would you have bought?
What has:
1.) a great screen
2.) great keyboard
3.) great build-quality
4.) great customer service, tech support and sevice.

Nothing.

I have a T60 14.1" SXGA+ (standard aspect 1400 X 1050) and I love much about it, but the screen is "below average" to "average" by my ratings. I have spent a long time looking for something preferably 13.3" or smaller, but it would be a huge understatement to say that nothing satisfies all four requirements I posted above.

So, what do you do?

Either you get a Lenovo that satisfies everything but having a good screen, or you get a SONY or Apple that have the best screens, but so-so keyboards, and other "gotchas" to each company?

I would love an X300 if it had a great screen, but it apparently does not either. A Macbook Air has perhaps the best 13.3" screen ever, but comes with next to nothing in terms of capabilities. A SONY SZ has a poor keyboard in my opinion. The SONY TZ has perhaps the best screen ever, but it is 11.1" with a tiny keyboard. I am NOT buying an M1330 or any Dell now or ever.

Do you get my point?

Now, back to your thread:

If Mark or anyone at Lenovo really want to see what their screens look like, they need to go to the factory and have several people look at 100+ systems as they come off the assembly line. Those people would need to know what they were looking for (i.e. a good screen vs average vs poor). Additionally, they would need engineers to take nit readings off all parts of the screen. Then they would have to run some tests to show video quality.

I am sorry, but examining 4 or 5 notebooks for screen quality issues won't yield any useful information. Much too small a sample. Maybe Mark just wanted to see a few to see if he could see any glowing issue?

Meanwhile, find ME a notebook!! Please.

Andrew

 

Hey techno_techie,
So sorry about all this. If you really are that disappointed just sell it. No reason to keep something that you are not happy with. After spending all that money, you should feel excited and happy, but you seem the opposite. I am getting my machine in a couple days. I will try it out and will probably write a review. I took a big risk as well, but the price was good, If I don't like the screen, I will just sell it and go for something else.

 

I agree that the sample pool that they took is small - I have no contention with that - I have taken plenty of statistics to know the poll size to population size. I would have bought a Dell. My dell lasted me 6 years - it still runs, that laptop with only a replacement for the power cord. I would recommend them to anyone - I have no reason to complain about their product. I would not go with Sony and never with Apple. I just expected Lenovo to have a quality build, which is what many have touted them to have. I am sure I could find a laptop that has 3 of 4 of the specifications up there. This thinkpad meets two.

 

Thanks for the sympathy . I am getting reconciled to the idea - I read one of techboydino's first posts about Dell laptops, and that made me feel better. If they keep the same screen ration for their new line, I am thinking that I might pay for an LED replacement in the future. I am researching what I could ask for my machine - if it is less that what my lowest bid would be, I will probably keep it and save for a replacement LCD.

 

I have the Samsung WXGA+ for the T61 14.1" notebook. Came in a blue tint but I color calibrated it. Sharp and not grainy like I had on some Dells. I won't complain since I never seen an LG in person. My eyes are sensitive to that sparkle effect that I hear LGs have. One of my dells had that and I teared just looking at it.

 

So, are you saying that you would have bought an M1330?
Or, what Dell would have beat out your T61?

Andrew

 

No, I would have purchased a 1530. The 1330 is way too costly for a 13", IMHO. Dell would have beat out my T61.

 

I've seen T61's with both screens made by LG and Samsung, and the Samsung screen seemed to have some sort of a blue tan on it and was dimmer than LG's.

 

And, I am assuming that a 1530 is glossy screen only?
Lots of glare.

As I said, screen quality is a big issue in my next purchase. I had planned to get an X300 all along, and may still get one, but I REALLY don't want to have to pay $3,000+ and then get to replace the panel with some other notebook's panel!

So, what system would you recommend for me?
I don't want a 15.4" notebook.

Andrew

 

Ah, I see. The 14.1" inch and 13" from Thinkpad have little complaints. Other than this screen issue, Thinkpads really are robust. They are also extremely quiet. I have read great things about the X-series, but your best bet for not getting burned is looking at the Lenovo forums for the x-series and see if people have listed problems for their machines: forum.lenovo.com.

 

Quite aware of it, thanks.

Andrew

 

after two LG replacements (one that came with laptop had dead pixels, 1st replacement was superdim in the corners, 2nd replacement is perfect) I have a good screen. Still quite grainy though, I think it is because the screen is matte, not glossy.

 

Update:
My notebook is going to engineering - I am sad that it will be out of my hands for a while, but we'll see what they say about my particular panel. I will keep you all updated. Mark has really been the most helpful. I am not sure that I could say the same about other employees at other retailers.

 

Update:
Talked to Mark Hopkins today. I feel that it went well, but I plan clarifying a few things in an email. I don't know how much better the LG is compared to the panel I already have, which is an important thing not to know. What I think they understand is that there is a viewing angle difference between the two, but there was little else advantage mentioned or evidence that they saw to make a complete overhaul of the LCDs.

What I think everyone considering a Lenovo should know is that these Samsung panels that seem to have the problem are not disappearing any time soon. At least, there has been no indication of a change of manufacturers for the supply of LCD parts. And, I think that may be a fact that we all have to deal with.

 

And, everyone considering a Lenovo should know that most Samsung screen owners are happy with their screens, save for a very vocal minority.