Should I cancel my ThinkPad X220 order because of the 'Throttling' issue?

I just ordered a ThinkPad X220 (with i7) and was very much looking forward to receiving it. But all the negative news about the Throttling issue is giving me second thoughts and I am seriously thinking of cancelling my order - even though this will incur a fee.

I don't upgrade my computer very often, but when I do I expect the new one to be in perfect working order.

Am I overreacting? Are there X220 owners out there who love their machines and are experiencing no problems?

Do you think Lenovo will be able to fix this issue - and if so, why haven't we heard anything official from them to reassure customers.

 

No don't cancel, Don't run your laptop with out the battery. Grab your self a 90w power pack which is what I use when I'm pushing my CPU hard for long periods of time like gaming or other programs like de-encrypting user data from backup or when I need faster charging. All of this of corse gets deleted like data soon as I reboot but I haven't had any issues running max cores with the 90w powerpack and some common sense to give the laptop some breathing room underneath when pushed hard. Yes I have the i7 and 8 gigs of ram. Its a killer lappy you will love it.

take care
ym

 

Solution: get one with an i5. No reports of any issues with that, and you'll very likely never notice a performance difference. Plus it's cheaper.

 

Better still, one with an i3. It's even cheaper (as in lower price, of course ).

 

Depends on what you plan to use it for. So far, the only real-world application that has the problem is Civ5. Every other instance has been observed by people stress-testing their machines. If you want to play games on this thing, or use it as a mobile workstation for intense 3D work, then you might want to go for the i5, or a different laptop altogether. Otherwise, I doubt the throttling will be a problem. I ordered the i7, and the throttling has not caused me the slightest second-guessing.

 

I concur, but not from the throttling problem standpoint.

From what I gathered from posts on this forum, it looks like high-pitched fan noise is limited to i7. Unless you're running several VMs or really pushing your x220, I don't think you would notice much difference with i3/i5.

I don't see i7 throttling as an issue for me at the moment since I do not constantly push my CPU.

 

I have the i7 in my X220 and do not have any high pitched fan noise. I also am having the down throttling issue but have NOT noticed ANY problems in performance. Love this laptop so far.

 

..and two i5 x220's both had a slight high pitched whine, albeit not bothersome to me

So, it can affect any x220 or not affect it.

 

i7 also gives you usb3 too...

imo, dont cancel. I'm ordering too.

 

I had an i7 once. It never throttled. True story.

 

I think anyone that cancels an order due to internet reported problems is being silly.

Take it and see for yourself. If it has a problem return it.

Likely it won't.

I am not saying the reported problems are not true, cause they are it is just that they don't hit but a small percentage of the laptops in use.

Perry
Perry

 

Not sure what you guys have been reading, but this particular i7 throttling issue is not your typical internet whine story. It seems to affect nearly all X220 i7 models and it is very easy to replicate if you play any games at all which are both GPU and CPU intensive. Not to mention that since is appears to be related directly to voltage somehow (and the touchpad interference with the 90W UltraSlim--a separate problem in many ways--confirms this), it could actually compromise the very health of the notebook hardware in the long run.

So yes, it's a legitimate concern that the OP has. But my advice nonetheless is to go ahead and take delivery of the machine and just wait a couple weeks to see how things play out. Odds are a fix will be devised as the mainstream tech sites have already picked up on the story and publicized it. Lenovo is now under pressure to correct it.

 

After reading about the throttling issue, I would only order an i7 if:

1 - You NEED USB3. Like can't live without it.

2 - You will never use a single GPU-intensive task on your computer. Not even once. If you ever even think about playing a game, don't get the i7.

Fact is, the i7 isn't THAT much better than the i5 and it's a lot more expensive. If you don't need USB3 and you plan on gaming at all it's a no-brainer. My $0.02. YMMV.

 

I have read various references to this but have not seen an explanation to what this means. Would someone mind explaining? I have no idea what this means. Thanks for the help.

 

No, Perry is correct, and you are wrong. I have been reading x220 threads before Petrov complained of the throttling he experienced while playing Civ5. So far, that is the only real-world application that has had this problem; all other instances of "throttling" that I have seen to date are cases where people stress-test their machines looking for the problem. And -- surprise, surprise! -- they find it. I grant that the fact that the throttling sometimes gets "stuck" requiring a cold boot is something that should not happen. But the fact that it happens only under circumstances beyond what people buy business-class laptops for makes it more of a user problem than a hardware problem, a case where an individual is not buying the appropriate tool for their purposes. The problem is being blown way out of proportion. There are plenty of people here on the forums who seem to be using the x220 with their regular workflow and have not (as of yet) reported problems with the throttling. Until they do, you and some of the others need to get a grip and stop spreading misinformation.

 

I agree with this. I saw the throttling issue ONLY when I went looking for it. As far as I can discern, the issue occurs only under incredibly intensive gpu loads.

Also, the 90watt adapter will help, but even then, under extreme loads, your gpu will throttle down to its rated speed of 650mhz, which really isnt enough to play games.

 

Luckily, even if you don't get the i7, you can still have usb 3 via an expresscard 54 mm, which will fit into the X220's expresscard port. You could remove it when not needed. Something like this:

Amazon.com: Express card 54mm To 2 Port USB 3.0 expresscard: Electronics

USB 3 on the i7 X220 is not native on the system board because it isn't supported by Intel. It works via third-party chipset. Possibly, it's not as fast (as in full usb 3.0 speeds) as it would be if it was native and not much faster than the expresscard (which again I assume is not full speed), but I'm just guessing on all that.

 

^^^ Nice find!

One of the photos on that page shows very familiar palmrest corners:

 

Glad to have helped, man.

 

That card is the reason I didn't even consider an i7. It even gives aux power.

 

I'm not sure how this wouldn't concern owners of the notebook even if they don't experience the throttling under regular use, as the UltraSlim charger/touchpad issue (which is related) seems to suggest a much larger voltage-related issue with the unit. This is not normal behavior--and it could result in damage to the parts eventually if not corrected.

Again, I'm a computer tech of many years, so it's not like I'm some sort of picky alarmist here

 

The user-reviews for that card clarify the speed restriction I referred to earlier:

"take note though, the PCIE interface used by the expresscard slot has a maximum transfer of 2.5 gbit/sec, so no possible expresscard can fully utilize the 4.8 gbit/sec potential of usb 3.0. Same transfer bandwidth as eSata. unfortunately that is as fast as you can get externally until expresscard 2.0 slots start showing up on notebooks. realistically thouhg most 3.0 gbit/sec sata hard drives have trouble utilizing all the available bandwidth, so 2.5 gbit/sec rates are plenty for the average user."


Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Express card 54mm To 2 Port USB 3.0 expresscard

 

Can someone please elaborate on this? Thanks.

 

If you use the 90watt ultraslim adapter, your touchpad will be jumpy and unstable.

 

I need to use USB maybe once a year since the data drive is internal now. But since I need it so infrequently maybe I can go for a non-flush fitting Expresscard 2.0 card. $200 is a steep price for native usb 3.0 if you don't use it all the time.

 

Good point about not really needing an external if you opt for mSATA + HDD !

 

As far as I know this is the only flush fitting one at the moment. So if there are any Expresscard 2.0 USB 3.0 cards out right now, they won't be flush.

 

Lol- edited my last post.

Isn't the X220's slot expresscard 1.0? An expresscard 2.0 card won't be any better than 1.0 for it?

 

Somewhere in this thread I read that it is. Afterall the chipset supports pci-e 2.0. I guess we'll find out whenever someone tries a usb 3.0 expresscard 2.0 adapter.

 

If that's the case, great! Thanks for the info.

 

Seems very hard to confirm ExpressCard 1.0 or 2.0. Sandy Bridge is supposed to come with PCI-E 2.0. Don't know if Lenovo implemented it, but if they did, the x220 and all other Sandy Bridge models should use ExpressCard 2.0 speeds, 5.0 Gbit/s.

 

Interesting, I have not noticed that.

 

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. I have decided to cancel my order for the time being and will wait to see if the upcoming BIOS update will fix the problem.

I just want to make sure it is not a hardware problem.

I really hope it can be fixed as the x220 looks like a great design.

 

I heard it was ExpressCard 2.0 with 1.0 fallback.

 

A user on the Lenovo forum gave ThrottleStop a try today on his X220 and there was no more throttling. It's worth a try if you have this issue.

http://forum.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X220-cpu-throttling-problem/m-p/445089#M24515

 

I also specifically mention the use of Throttlestop to stop the throttling issue in the owners thread, but apparently nobody bothers. Oh well, their loss
Thanks for your tool, though, unclewebb

 

Pindar, I respectfully disagree. Civ 5 was the only game I had installed when I found the issue originally. I've now installed a second game - Dragon Age: Origins, a game that's a few years old now. After playing for only 30 mins or less, it also induces perma throttling on my i7 x220! I'm sincerely glad it doesn't bother you, but it does have a very practical and every day impact on my user experience. Personally, I think I'll be returning my x220 and probably reordering an i5 version.

I do agree with you, and others, that the best option is just to get an i5 or i3 at this stage. Hopefully Lenovo will come up with a solution shortly, so it's up to the OP if he wants to risk it.

Are there any other games you suggest I install and test for throttling to convince you it's not isolated to Civ 5 as the only "real world application"...? I could try Pacman or Pong, or something.

Petrov.

PS As for Throttlestop, I think (but am not sure) that this may be a false dawn - I've posted re this on the Lenovo forums themselves. I would hope to be proven wrong, but basically my testing suggests the system won't boost GPU speeds when using Throttlestop, so the cure is as bad as the cause.

 

Petrov,

Thank you for your last reply. I have already cancelled my order but am considering reordering the i5 version instead of the i7.

Is it true that the i5 is not affected by these throttlling issues? Perhaps this is the best solution for the time being.

I read elsewhere that the updated BIOS (1.16) doesn't really solve the problem because it simply 'reduces the fan noise by accepting higher CPU temperatures (which may cause long term problems). It doesn't change the fact that on some machines the fan revs at a frequency of 2.2 kHz when running above 2000 RPM.'

Would be most interested in your thoughts.

 

Hi Cuthbert. If I didn't already have an x220, I'd certainly wait a week or two to see if Lenovo fix the throttling issue (and then order the i7 if they did fix it). I am reasonably confident they will, but not assuredly so. For me, the fan issue and backlight bleed are niggles for a premuim laptop, but wouldn't stop me buying altogether (but that's just me).

The 1.16 bios update wasn't meant to fix the throttling issue on the i7, it seems to have the fans run at lower RPM at a given temp, but doesn't solve the "whine" per se (ie they still whine at higher RPMs - that appears to be a design fault with the fans).

And as far as I can tell, the i5s are not affected by the throttling issue. But this is just on my reading of the forums, as I don't have an i5 myself.

Just got my RMA/refund number from Lenovo for my x220 i7 - time for me to put my money where my mouth is and return it...?

Petrov.

 

Petrov,

Sorry I haven't been following the discussion closely - just wondering if you've tried a 90W power supply?
I vaguely recall floz or someone else was discussing power draw;
I know that I looked at the number at the Power Manager and it seemed high - but the initial unit that I had didn't throttle.
While running Prime95, the 2 gauges (CPU and GPU?) at the Power Manager fluctuated a bit, but always at 100% to higher (but perfmon still reported a constant 2701). ie, perfmon might not be reporting the correct max speed.
But it does record the 800 when I switch to a different power profile.

My point is - there could be a multitude of reasons from faulty CPU, faulty power brick... have you contacted Lenovo to have an engineer check it out?

 

just my 2 cents' worth - if the throttling is designed to prevent the CPU from getting fried, then it's probably not a good idea to disable it?

 

Hi spam.

Yeah, I had a Lenovo engineer come out and observe the problem. He replaced the whole system board (incl CPU/GPU, fan, etc), but no change in the issue. Turns out a lot of people have it with i7's, so unlikely to be a faulty component. Probably a power problem of some sort, given it's not thermal related. I think Lenovo will fix it, but I'm not sure if I can be bothered waiting - I can always reorder once they do.

He didn't give me a 90W adapter. The threads have a lot of commentar about it now, so I'm just waiting to see the outcome.

Petrov.

 

Thank you for the update, Petrov~
I'm about to get my replacement soon and I'll run the tests at my end to see if throttling happens.
Certainly sucky - but if it does occur I'd get support and ask them to come with a few power bricks (including the 90s) - just to make sure we've got all the bases covered.
Good luck mate!

 

Meh.

For what its worth my X220 with an I7 doesnt experience this issue to my knowledge.

Yesterday I ended up playing Left4Dead2 roughly 3 hours without any noticable impact on performance, the laptop did get rather toasty.

I've played Unreal Tournament Game of the Year edition for about 1.5 hours without any issue.

Portal 1 for about 45 minutes.

CS:S For about 2 hours.

I dont know why some people see this and others dont, I can run a FRAPS of Left4dead2 if someone wants.

 

Engmus, that's very interesting - any chance you could run the tests as outlined on here (ie run OCCT GPU test)? did you monitor the CPU/GPU in the background while you were playing, or was it just that you didn't notice any anecdotal degradation in performance?

The reason I ask, is that it would be interesting to determine if your laptop actually "doesn't have it" (the throttling) or if you just "don't notice it".

Petrov.

 

Yes, please! Settings and resolution?

 

Petrov, I can run OCCT GPU test when I get home tonight. I didnt specifically have the any monitoring software up (CPUZ, HWINFO) but I definitely would have noticed a performance hit with L4D2 at 800mghz.

Colonel O'Neill - Same, when I get to my X220 tonight I can post up the settings. Resolution is native 1366x768.

 

Great, thanks Engmus. To generally induce throttling very quickly, you can just run prime95 and also run OCCT (GPU test) on top of that, while having HWinfo32 monitor in the background. That should induce it quick smart.

Petrov.

 

I just opened my x220 i7 and want to test for the throttling before doing anything else. But when trying to run ooct, I get an error for directx drivers. Can someone point exactly to what/where to find what I need to install. Thanks.

 

Have you considered installing DirectX?