Should I get a T61p(possible BSOD, overheating etc) instead of a T61?

Basically I am planning on using the laptop I want to get for a variety of things, mainly for entertainment etc. I want to keep the notebook for a while. I have a decked out T61 right now as a quote, but I am not sure if I should get the T61p. I might be willing to pay the extra money for the T61p, but there seems to be MAJOR problems with stability - BSOD, especially with gaming. If you head over to the Lenovo forums, you will see a 26 page thread about these problems and many many people have the same issue. Looks like the issue has been verified by Lenovo , but as of right now they don't have a fix. There are also a bunch of people on this forum with the same problem, Hackez etc. I don't know if these stability issues exist with the X3100 or Quadro NVS 140M, but most of the threads seem to go around the 570 card.

I am not sure what I should do. Reliability is the first thing that I want. I don't want to spend $1500 on a T61p and it be a doorstop. I am quote frankly not sure how you guys with T61ps bought your machines so confidently. If this was an isolated problem, I wouldn't worry so much, but this seems real widespread.

What do you guys think?

 

I think the issue is only with the Quadro FX 570M machines.

I got mine last week and I have the issue. I am hoping there will be a fix not requiring sending in my laptop. If it requires a hardware fix I think they should issue a recall. The issue is really worrisome since it can't be good for your computer when it just shuts down unexpectedly.

Well, I did not really know of this issue when I purchased. I might have read about it somewhere but didn't think it was still an issue in the new builds. It's strange that it's so prominent in the Lenovo forums but in these forums is seems like a non-issue.

I don't think it is very widespread but it's obviously a real and serious issue with the T61p. I suspect that a lot of people might be using only 1 Dimm and the issue is not showing up for them. If they used 2 dimms there might be a lot more people with this issue. We'll probably see people posting in the future when they try to upgrade their memory and find their computers crash a lot. They'll think it's the memory but it's not.

If all you do is play games then it's a big issue. For me the machine runs fine other than the games and gaming is not my primary use for it so it doesn't affect me as much. I would like to get it fixed though.

The Lenovo forum member over at the Lenovo forums says he should have more information on this issue later this week. I'm waiting to see what he says.

 

i just got my motherboard replaced and it works perfectly now, for games and outside of games. running 2 x 2gb of ram.

 

Wuzer, did you send it in to depot or did you have onsite warranty?

Any problems with the warranty service?

Did you have to send in your HDD too?

 

Mine came straight from the factory and was great for gaming with the quadro driver. After installing the other drivers on here, gaming got better. No BSOD even after 2 hours of gaming. Knocked on wood.

 

T61p here, rec 2/22, no issues whatsoever. Quadro 570M 256mb btw

 

hmm... i have an issue when a game i play always crashes... i have a t61p with the Quadro FX 570M and 2 Gb of ram...

is that the same... my laptop does not turn off or anything else... just crashes ..

do i need to send back to lenovo?

 

well...mines is a little different. i have standard 4-year depot warranty, but instead of sending it in, my school is an authorized repair center. i know the techs, so they were more careful with my machine than lets say the people down at the depot. they also transferred my upgraded RAM over so i didn't have to remove it. when you send it to the depot, you'll want to put all the stock things back in. if you've determined that it's a mobo issue through PC-Doctor 5's test of the graphics card, you don't have to send the HDD in with the computer. Just take it out. Or, if you don't feel like doing so, just make a backup of the hard drive.

sounds a little different. try changing video drivers and see what happens.
mines used to BSOD before i got my motherboard replaced. crashes aren't critical failures as far as i know.

 

From my understanding of the situation, it only affects the 15.4" motherboards, so you may be safe

 

Hi webdtc,
I have read your issues as well. My symathies. So you bought a new custom order T61p from Lenovo directly, recently? That makes me even less confident, as I thought that maybe the problems existed with the older build, not new. Your comments about the memory, is exactly what I felt. I think a lot of the people are using only 1 Dim and will get a nasty suprise when they upgrade the ram.

Also what is the point of getting the t61p if I can't game/3D a lot on it? In addition, what a horrible feeling it is to get a new T61 and have to ship it off to depot repair immediately to get the motherboard replaced no less.

These are the kinds of things driving me crazy and I am not sure what to buy. If these were just isolated incidents and problems here and there I wouldn't worry. But this is a real verifiable problem and Mark from Lenovo said that the testers at Lenovo were able to recreate the problem consistently. I don't want to be able to use only 1 Dim of memory, that just sucks.

I still wonder if people with the other graphics solutions I mention are having these problems? If the Mobo's with discrete graphics suck, maybe I should just stick with the X3100 and say forget gaming on the T61 and just put the money toward a desktop computer with a good graphics card.

I don't know I am confused.

 

My 61p runs pretty much 24x7 and stays under pretty consistent load (video encoding, VPC, etc.) - I've yet to have any of the issues you folks are talking about.

Of course, as soon as I say that my laptop will cra

 

What are your specs? Are you using 2 Dims of ram occupying the 2 RAM slots?

 

yeah - slots fully occupied. What I don't have is the turbo memory - and as I understand it, that too has been a source of BSODs.

See my sig for spec details.

 

Fire Snake,

I know how you feel. While I know there is a real issue with the T61p I also know that not everyone's has the issue. I'm sure most people get machines without the issue. I may just be very unlucky.

I purchased 3 notebooks recently and had to return 2 of them before I got the T61p. If I were to choose again I would probably pick the T61p. It is a really great machine and I'm sure every notebook model has some type of major issue. What matters is how the company handles that issue.

The graphic issue has disappointed me, but I am hopeful that Lenovo will find a fix soon. Well, I am waiting for Mark_Lenovo to provide more info and depending on what he says I'll decide whether to try a return or the fix.

As strange as it may seem I'd recommend the T61p to anyone.

 

Sorry hearing of your problems. Its unfortunate and hope it gets resolved. You're handling it better than I would have if I had the same issue. The one major positive news is that they have been able to reproduce the problem - and that is the biggest step to finding a fix.

I looked around for more info and strangely enough this issue is brought up often on desktop forums too (xtremesystems.org/forums, guru3d forums). Might be related or it might not but the symptoms are eerily familiar - shutdown on games, Taking out 1 stick removes the problem. The latter is what caught my eye. Huge long threads just like the T61p but it happens with any make, amd/intel...only commonality is nvidia graphics and 2 sticks of ram. But they haven't been able to pinpoint the cause and noone even knows if any company is doing anything to fix it much less acknowledge the problem. Very weird.

As for depot - it seems like a crapshoot and it depends on the depot you're sending it to which are themselves outsourced. You either get very competent service and turnaround or just terrible service. If these guys can't do it give the contract to someone who can.

 

Why not go middle of the road and get the T61 with an NVS 140M video card? You should have no problem doing some light gaming with that card.

If you're going to do heavy gaming, then you should definitely invest in a desktop with a good graphics card.

 

morphy, thanks for the input. I did not know there were similar issues outside of the T61p. That's too bad no one seems to be owning up to the issue.

I was hopeful that Mark_Lenovo would give some sort of update today in the Lenovo forums but I guess he's busy or there's no update.

By the way, Lenovo does seem like they are fixing people's machines through warranty. So, if you do purchase at least you know that you won't be left out with no solution.

 

Thanks MEA707,
Yes, this was exactly what I was thinking. I actually have a totally decked out T61 with the NVS 140M as a quote just sitting in my email. Before I click "order" I want to see it getting a T61p would be worth it.

 

Well here is where I am at. I am deciding between 2 machines, the T61 decked out or the T61p. Basically the T61p is going to be $136 more than the T61 model I have configured below. Is the $136 worth it? The only difference between the T61 model I configured below and the T61p is the GPU correct, or are there other workmanship/quality/parts differences?

Also there is still the issue with the 2 dims of ram and GPU usage. There still is no word from Mark at the Lenovo boards, though he said that he will make a statement by the end of the week in one of his posts which I am anxiously awaiting.

Webdtc - you said the DIm slot/GPU issue only affects the t61p, how do you know that? Have you talked to others?

This whole process has driven me insane :wub: . Hopefully if the Thinkpad I buy lasts a while I won't have to go through this for a while. What happened to the days of putting money down on something that was the best and went home with no worries?

T61
T9300(2.5 Ghz 6MB L2 cache)
Windows Vista Business 64
15.4" WSXGA+
Nvidia Quadro NVS 140m
1 GB Ram
Trackpoint, touchpad and Fingerprint reader
80GB harddrive
Turbo memory = No
DVDRW drive
PC Card and Express Card
Intel 4965 AGN Wifi
Bluetooth = Yes
Wireless USB = No
Mobilebroad band = No
9 Cell battery
3 year depot

T61p
Same as above except has the 570 Quadro card.

 

I don't know it for sure, but as far as I've seen the issue is with machines with the Quadro FX 570M. It might just be that the people who play 3D games are the ones who get the 570M and those people are much more likely to notice the issue.

I've seen some people with the NVS 140m say they have a similar issue, but I don't know if it's the same issue.

 

I own a t61p with the shutdown problem.

I love it.

It's a beautifully built machine, overall, and it works beautifully for gaming; I'm in the process of obtaining a new motherboard but I have no complaints about it. Fact is, it took me 15 minutes over the phone to get a box sent to my house to send in my laptop for repair, which is NOTHING compared to the problems I've had with Dell customer support over the years (with my desktop).

I would get the T61p; fact of the matter is if you're only getting 1GB you won't notice the problem even if you have it... also, I wouldn't buy a computer with only 1 GB of ram nowadays, hell that won't even be enough for Vista.

 

I can't believe I wasn't aware of this issue when researching what laptop I was going to buy. I went with the T61p, 4gb Ram, so I am anticipating having this problem. I do plan on gaming a bit. I just checked my tracking and it is on track for being delivered tomorrow, and then I came to this forum and noticed this thread and began to have buyers remorse as i read along.

But seeing the generally quick and helpful response from customer service all of you are getting, it does put me to rest a bit. It sounds like the depot's are a bit inconsistent in fixing this issue right now, but it also sounds like it may be because there is uncertainty around the exact cause of the issue, but they are trying hard to fix it and it sounds like they are close, hopefully.

I had an issue with not ever getting my purchase confirmation via email and had to call customer support several times to confirm my order status, get order numbers and finally a tracking number. Each time I never had to wait to get through to a rep and each one was very quick to understand what I needed, and quick to provide me with that information. I can't say the same for most other outsourced customer service I've called into.

The fact is, you can use the best parts and components to build your computers, but there are so many variables that can cause problems that something is bound to happen. These days when it comes to buying expensive electronic devices, customer service should be a huge factor in your purchase, because chances are something is going to go wrong and you want to make sure that it gets taken care of in the quickest, most painless way possible.

I was considering a Dell XPS M1530 as it offered similar options as the T61p, but ultimately I preferred the rugged form factor of the Thinkpad and I really couldn't configure the Dell with the same specs for near the same price. And from what I know from many people, Dell's customer service can be a real pain.

I can let my new awareness of this issue give me buyer's remorse, but you know what? I'm not really sure what else I would go buy instead if I sent it back for a refund. A thousand bucks more for a Macbook Pro?

Just some thoughts from someone who almost has a T61p

 

I play games all day long and the laptop itself has been stable for me.

 

This problem may not be as widespread as you think it is. Consider that it's really only people who have this problem in the first place who seek out help by visiting forums such as this one. Meanwhile, the other 99% of T61p users are happy campers who are oblivious to these forums because their machines run just fine.

 

emagination, you may very well get one without the problem. Not all of them have the issue.

I just use 1 dimm and my T61p is excellent in almost every other way.

As soon as I hear an official response from Lenovo I'll decide whether to send it in for repair or not if that is the only way to fix the issue. I hope at that point Lenovo will have something set up and information distributed to their customer care to handle this specific issue.

 

Did you do a custom order? If so when was it built? Also I plan on running the full 4 GBs. I am scared of Lenovo's depot repair. I want to avoid it if possible.

 

1.) Lets say that I do order a T61p and it works fine. Is the $136 worth it to go from a t61 decked out to a T61p?

2.) Are the parts in 2 identically configured T61 and T61p different? Other than the GPU of course.

3.) My main objective, not sure if I can achieve it, is to stay away from depot repair if possible. If I know that lets say 80% of the T61ps are going to have this problem and have to go to depot repair to have the problem fixed, then the T61p is out for me. I would be willing to drop to the T61 and not spend the $136 dollars more. I would much rather have a T61 without this issue and a less powerful GPU than to get a T61p with the more powerful GPU but having to be sent to depot repair for a fix.

 

That is a valid point. I tend to have bad luck with electronics so I skew a little on the negative side when it comes to things like this.

Let's just hope this isn't as bad as the Xbox360 debacle.

 

I compare the issue with the issue of getting a bad screen. For example a screen that has bad light bleed or dead pixels. I think getting a bad screen is something that is common to most laptops but does not happen to most people.

This BSOD/shutdown/freeze issue sounds like it will be fixable. Getting a bad screen is often not fixable unless you are persuasive enough to get the company to replace your screen. Lenovo has a pretty bad policy on screens.

No matter what you purchase, even if it's from the most perfect manufacturer in the world there is a chance you'll run into some issue. It's a chance we all have to take I guess.

One warning though is that Lenovo has one of the worse return policies I've ever seen. I asked if it was possible to return my laptop because of this issue or do an exchange and was told twice "No, you need to send it in for warranty or return it with a 15% restocking fee". Keep in mind that this was within a week of receiving the machine. If there was anything that would stop me from purchasing from Lenovo again it would be their return policy and stories I hear about the depot service (I know your fear Fire Snake).

 

I have TP61p, Lenovo-installed 3 gigs of RAM, Intel Turbo Memory, 15.4" screen, nVidia 570 card. According to this thread I should have problems. Well, I had but they are in the past.

I had BSOD problems sometime around the time when I installed Netgear's SC101 "Storage Central" with Vista. It didn't work, to say the least. Save yourself some time and dont' even try. When I uninstalled the SC101 software and drivers, Vista would not boot--it would BSOD each time it started booting.

So after a Vista Ultimate fresh install from our University disc, many BSODs. Then after going back to the factory install from the recovery partition, no more BSODs. Over a full week and not a single BSOD. I'm using Vista SP1 and Lenovo-posted nVidia driver from August 2007.

I will say that I turned OFF the Active Protection System after the system locked up. If I would move this laptop quickly (for example, if the phone would ring), I'd get a freeze-up. After turning off Active Protection, this has been absolutely perfect! It was particularly interesting to try and use this on a plane--when turbulence, there'd be almost certainly a freeze-up. I think APS is very buggy in Vista--it was great in XP.

 

Hi Firesnake,

Unless you have a need for highspeed graphics, I wouldn't get the discrete graphics for one reason: battery life.

So you'll have to decide which tradeoff you want to make.

My T61p has been absolutely solid. I've had two bsod's, the first was after I was putting in drivers when I went to Vista 64 and the second was SP1 which had a bug.

I think you will really love your T61p.

 

Reduce the sensitivity so that only larger jolts trigger it. On the most sensitive settings a sneeze will set it off.

 

I have a T61p with 15.4" screen. Never had problems plaing any game (in the higher settings).
I must say that I did a clean install, though. And the NVidia Quadro FX driver isn't from Lenovo. It's the one offered by Windows Update.

 

Hi Renee,
I am defenetly looking for some kind of discrete GPU solution. Battery life is somewhat important for me, but it is not huge. I am not going to leave the house with it that much and I want to be able to do to atleast some light gaming. Plus I am getting a 9 cell battery, which should give me some normal battery time.

 

Lets say the T61p has no defects. Is it worth it to go from a T61(with the specs I had posted) to a T61p for $136?

 

It all depends if what you will be using the laptop for (I believe you said "entertainment and gaming") will require the more powerful NVIDIA FX570M-256MB card for "a better experience" or not. I don't really play games and my laptop will primarily be a work laptop but I opted for the T61p because I didn't want to have any regrets about not getting the model with the more powerful graphics card if I ever did decide to play some game or use some application that requires it. Similarly, I intend to keep this laptop (incidentally my first laptop and first ThinkPad) for several years and wanted to ensure its usability for the long term. If you can afford the extra expense and justify its expenditure over the length of time that you will be keeping the laptop then I believe it is worth it to get the T61p!

 

My personal opinion is that for only 136$ is definitely worth to go for a T61p. It's more "future proof": it will be able to play games and professional 3D apps, and will also maintain more value in the future. Look at used T60 VS. T60p prices and you'll know what I mean.

 

I agree it would be worth it to go to the T61p if you plan to use it for some gaming.

T61p is really great for gaming. I think it's one of the better 15" gaming laptops even though it's not marketed as a gaming laptop.

 

Have you considered a Dell XPS M1530? I only ask because you wrote that your laptop would be used for entertainment purposes, and the 1530 has HDMI and S video out.

Don't get me wrong, I think the T61P is a great setup and a good value (I've got one on the way). I like the "sleeper" aspect of it. Although it should be as capable of playing games as the Dell, if you want to use it as an entertainment center you may be better off with the Dell. I had one briefly and it seemed like a great system, except for the Samsung (which is why it went back).

Just my .02...

 

I don't plan on using it for an entertainment center, but I want to do some casual gaming on it along with the other usual tasks like photo editing, word etc. The thing keeping me away from the XPS is the screen problem and I don't think it is built that great. The only Dells I would consider would be the Lattitude line and the Precision line.

 

You might want to check out these new Dells. They look promising.

 

They look like rehashes of Thinkpads with a Dell logo.

 

Those Dells are scheduled for June and they look pretty nice to me.

Looks like they carried over their XPS design to the business notebooks while keeping a more business-like design.

 

The new Dells - eye candy or business functional?

 

Does the shutdown problem occur on both the T61 and T61p ?

 

ok,
So very soon I will get either of these 2 configs. I am not sure about the warranty from Lenovo. I want to keep the machine at least 3 years. I was thinking of not getting the Depot warranty from Lenovo and going with an aftermarket warranty, specifically SquareTrade. I cannot seem to get any info from anyone on how the SquareTrade warranty is. I read a few reviews, some say awesome some say horrible, no middle ground. So right now I think I will stay with the depot warranty from Lenovo. Anyone have any insight into this?

Please critique my configs below. Am I getting a good price? I feel I should get a slightly better price but I haven't found one for the same config anywhere(ebay, Lenovo outlet etc). Thanks.

T61 = $1,290(includes tax and free shipping)
Core 2 Duo T9300(2.5 Ghz 6MB L2 cache)
Windows Vista Business 64
15.4" WSXGA+
Nvidia Quadro NVS 140m
1 GB Ram
Trackpoint, touchpad and Fingerprint reader
80GB harddrive
Turbo memory = No
DVDRW drive = Yes
PC Card and Express Card = Yes
Intel 4965 AGN Wifi
Bluetooth = Yes
Wireless USB = No
Mobilebroad band = No
9 Cell battery
3 year depot from Lenovo


T61p = $1,427(includes tax and free shipping)
Core 2 Duo T9300(2.5 Ghz 6MB L2 cache)
Windows Vista Business 64
15.4" WSXGA+
NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M
1 GB Ram
Trackpoint, touchpad and Fingerprint reader
80GB harddrive
Turbo memory = No
DVDRW drive = Yes
PC Card and Express Card = Yes
Intel 4965 AGN Wifi
Bluetooth = Yes
Wireless USB = No
Mobilebroad band = No
9 Cell battery
3 year depot from Lenovo

 

I think both configs look good. The major difference is the graphics card and that's up to you on if you want the more powerful card or not.

The pricing looks ok to me. It's about the same that I paid in February, maybe a little lower.