So much for the Z61t... Widescreen T60?

eek.

I was about to settle on the Z61t, but then I looked at some higher-res pictures of it.

What has Lenovo done to the Thinkpad? I know the Z series was pretty much Lenovo's doing, as they came out after the acquisition. The Z series didn't look quite as refined as the rest of the Thinkpads, being a little more curvy and oddly shaped than the others, but after looking at a few pics, I can't help but notice one thing:

They moved the headphone jacks to the front of the laptop.

This is possibly one of the worst design flaws I can imagine in a notebook, because when I'm using a laptop, 9 times out of 10 I'm either:

A) at my desk, where I would have my speakers plugged into the headphone jack, meaning they should be on the side or back of the laptop.

B) lying on my bed, with the notebook resting on my stomach and propped up against my legs, in which case I would be using headphones. With this new arrangement, the headphone plug would be stabbing right into my stomach. I rejected several other notebooks for this same reason, but didn't expect this from a Thinkpad.

Lenovo, what have you done?

At this point, I'm just holding out for a 14" widescreen T60/T61. I want integrated video, not ATI, and I didn't care for the camera on the Z series anyways. I just want the quality I've come to expect from Thinkpads without glaring design flaws.

Hopefully, there'll be a 14" WXGA+ T6x with GMA950 out this year, as I'm getting a new notebook this Christmas. Is there any hard info on the widescreen T series, or is it just a rumor?

</rant>

 

why don't you use a L-plug earphones. that'll prevent it from stabbing right into your stomach.

 

i guess, but i still have to run the cable around when using it at my desk.

its just that the appeal of thinkpads were that the little things like this were always thought out.

Even besides the headphones issue, the overall shape and look of the Z series doesn't seem to be on par with the rest of the thinkpad line, so I think i may consider a T60 instead.

Hopefully, there's some truth to the widescreen T series rumors

 

well i think that T-series should be almost-square laptops, and widescreened as Z61*s

 

I think you're right paqtrick22...The Z61 series IS the Thinkpad widescreen. Lenovo has the Z61 as their "flagship" ws and the 3000 series as their consumer based ws. To make another "T" ws doesn't make sense.

 

the problem is that the Z series doesn't have the solid "look" that the other thinkpads, in particular the T series, has. They seem to have Lenovo-ed the Z series while the rest stay largely the same as when IBM owned them

 

Yes there is definitely a widescreen T-series coming and it'll be around December that we hear more about it -- I don't think it will ship until January though, even if you can buy it in December.

btw, the ThinkPad design is done by the same people in Japan and North Carolina that have always done design for the ThinkPads, I met the folks who did the Z-series design and they were all American and same employees that worked there when it was IBM ThinkPad. Nothing has changed in terms of the people that do product design for ThinkPads and even the Lenovo 3000 was done by American designers. Visit www.lenovoblogs.com to see a blog run by the actual ThinkPad design dudes there.

Interestingly, they asked the question recently if people prefer widescreen or standard screen.

 

I think the Z61t, T60 and X60 look very much like siblings. I have had the opportunity to use all of them.

From my test drives, the X60 seemed to have slightly better "quality" (which is partly why i chose it, tho the overwhelming reason for my choice was portability).

Whichever you choose, try getting it with the Atheros card instead of the inferior intel one.

 

that's my top priority, as Atheros has superior Linux support.

Here's my situation. I currently have an R51, and my dad wants a laptop, so he offered to buy me a new one, pretty much any model I want, for Christmas this year if I let him have my current one, so that's how long I have to make a decision. If there is no word on a widescreen T series by Christmas, I'll suck it up and buy the Z61. if there is news, even if it doesn't come out till january or february, I'll likely hold off and wait for the T-wide.

Hopefully, the T series will have a 14" WXGA+ available, and they will still have an option for GMA 950

EDIT: just remembered, all T series are on sale till the end of this month, which would imply that they are trying to empty stock on them, which makes a refresh quite possible

 

That is a great news. I'm ready to "retire" my M1.7 T42 (give it to my wife to replace her T23). Z-series is out of the question, don't like front headphone jack and other details (except for firewire which is absent on T-series). So, I'm looking into C2D T-series and happy to hear about wide-screen update. Do you have any more inside info to share with us? For example, will it have x1600 video card instead of x1400? How about if they offer processor higher than 2GHz (in non-FireGL config)? What about the screen size? Thanks!!!

 

glad to hear someone dislikes the front headphone jacks as much as I do

as for video, I won't accept anything other than a GMA 950. Ironically, I'm not kidding. Intel video has the best open-source drivers under Linux

 

I do a lot of music production on my laptop (get more inspiration when I'm in bed ), so L-shaped adapter is not an option. As for video, this is a future investment into Vista. In addition, a lot of my music applications and the main sequencer rely heavily on GUI resources. I talked to a number of people who warned about audio problems during recording/rendering when GMA tries to "borrow" resources from a shared RAM and that causes glitches. So, I need a video card with a dedicated memory. Unfortunately, it does eat into battery life significantly. On my T42 with ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 / 64MB I get approximately 1:30 hr of charge. When I plugin midi keyboard, cuts down to 1 hr. I might go with a 9-cell battery to expand it.

 

wow, i get 3.5 hours on my R51, and I still want more life.

I wish the GMA didn't have to steal memory as well, but rather had its own dedicated memory. Sadly, GMA support is better on Linux than ATI is...

 

I dont think creating another widescreen for competing the Z series is a good idea. I think Z series are widescreen thinkpad?

If T series going 'widescreen' then Z series can go 'square' screen.
And Z series square screen can compete head to head with its sibling T series, uh... square screen.
And why not create widescreen for R series? People should really like more-affordable widescreen Thinkpad? Oh wait, widescreen tablet seems pretty cool too....

And Lenovo ends up with redundant thinkpad family lines..... I think they already have too much lines with Thinkpad and 3000 series combined.

 

I agree with you sapibobo...but word on the "board" is that they will be coming out with a widescreen T60; we shall soon see! I want them to put their R&D into the existing machines making them better, or at least keeping them from going "cheaper".

 

oh yeah!

Z=widescreen and T='square' ... i think the "feel" of T-series being more solid than the already-solid-Z-series comes to the fact that these babies are thinner. you could compare both 15inch T60 and Z61m, having almost same weight, but not their thickness. meaning, T60's are more compact in mass.

so when will i see T60's with titanium lid just kidding... but i'd like to see a X60 with it.

p.s. widescreen tablet sounds like fun

 

Why are they creating Z series then? What the main difference between widescreen T and widescreen Z? I am anxious too see decision they made.

 

Does anyone have more info on the upcoming widescreen T series models? Will they be 14" or 15"? Will the resolution be 1440x900 or 1680x1050? Is there a noticeable weight difference? Any other notable changes?
Thanks!

 

I think the OP is suggesting that a wide aspect T-series means doom to the Z.

Shame, think of how cool the Z61t would be with DVI and dedicated video. Put a 200 GB HDD in there and you would have one heck of a great HTPC. Connect it to your Plasma or LCD TV to view all your media. Tiny, quiet, cool and matches your audio/video gear.

 

I see the Z series being much more towards the multimedia end of the spectrum with the svideo out, webcam, larger speakers, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if the chassis for the widescreen T was built using the current z61m and z61t unibody. They are probably going to have their own special shell though with the usual carbon/magnesium stuff and the rubbery paint.

 

According to TrustedReviews..the screen on the Z61 is quite..lackluster compared to the T60.

That ruins the whole multimedia aspect of it.

 

its just that the T-series is more oriented towards what I would use the notebook for. I still want the GMA video, but i don't want the webcam,etc and I want the thinness of teh t series as well.

 

Unless you are getting the 15" IPS screen on the T60, they are about the same.

Speaking of the 14" z6xt... the 15.4" z6xm is very good, only having some issues with some weaker reds.

 

You are not kidding. I got a good deal on a Z60t at Staples - unopened old stock. I got home and cracked it open. While the build quality was terrific, the screen and pokey performance had me packing it up and returning it in no time flat.

That said, I think the Z6xt has a lot of potential.

 

this discussion leads me to this question: if the T series does in fact "go widescreen," is it likely that they'll offer a 15.4" IPS screen? I actually just ordered a T60 pretty much entirely based on how much I've heard about the quality of the IPS screen; my only complaint it that I really wanted a widescreen system, but decided to compromise; a 15.4" IPS C2D Thinkpad could be the ULTIMATE laptop for me......

 

what exactly is an IPS screen?

 

check out this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

for a great demonstration of the qualitative differences between an IPS/flexview screen and a normal LCD, check out this NBR review:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2864

 

I think Z series never really intended to be built as a multimedia machine. Z series lack of SPDIF and DVI output; it have inconsistent screen quality between each built and it have only medium sound chip and medium graphic card. Sound should be better, graphics should be better.

But compare to existing T series, Z series obviously have more features toward multimedia user. Extra USB ports, web cam, and widescreen implementation. But that do not make Z series a multimedia machine because of above mentioned limitation. It is more like 'business machine for multimedia users'.

And creating widescreen T to me is totally a waste. The more they play with T the more they'll kill Z. Eventually people will buy T and neglect Z because of its diminished selling point towards T. Z series will become a middle child that lack of attention.

 

co-signed!!

 

Don't forget Firewire, a card reader, and S-video in the Z also.

 

twister and zachtib -
I agree with you about the headphone jack. But, if it came down to it, you could always add a pc-card soundcard like an indigo, or even a usb soundcard, so the jack would be on the side.

 

that seems a bit extreme...

 

This, this, and this sounds extreme?

 

If I can't get the drivers working on Linux, then yes, it is

 

Getting those usb sound inputs doesn't seem like a bad idea. But, if you're spending that much you might as well spend 20$+ more and get yourself a creative audigy 2 zs notebook PMCIA soundcard.

An Audigy 2 SZ notebook would improve your sound quality, allow faster frame rates during gaming, (depends on the game how much it helps), allow for 5.1 sound, and allow for use of a headphone/speaker port on the side.

The Echo sound card is much, much better, but it also cost a substantial amount more.

 

Yes, I do have Echo Indigo I/O card. Its a great card and well worth the price because of the quality of their components and very high signal-to-noise ratio (they got it right with a ground isolation to have a very clean A/D and D/A, something Creative will never get!!!). But the card sticks out from PCMCIA slot which prevent from full laptop portability (have to take it out when putting in the bag). I know T60/Z60 supports both PC Express and older PCI cards, but moving forward this PCMCIA is outdated and I don't believe Indigo has any future plans. Those other $20 gizmos are toys to hear the sound from your computer, not to actually listen to the music clear or in my case since I'm doing a semi-pro music production. With a 50% price markup, you can only imagine they are putting low quality components. You get what you paid for, this is not really a bargain but rather a workaround...

 

OK, just got this from another forum: T60 widescreen announcement will be out on 11/28. I guess all the specs will be released through that announcement. Back to waiting.....

 

and now i go back to waiting as well...
anyone know when they will ship following that announcement?

 

Just called Lenovo/Thinkpad sales, they confirmed T-widescreen announcement after Thanksgiving. Shipments are planed for December before X-mas. This explains why they are pushing out their current T60 stock with all these free goody upgrades...

 

/me's jaw drops

Perfect... the parents have already offered to let me upgrade my Thinkpad for xmas...

Just out of curiosity, why would/did lenovo actually confirm something like this to you over the phone? or have I been following apple rumors for too long?

 

thanks for the bulletin; I too placed a call to Lenovo and got confirmation about an end-of-November annoucement; I tried to probe deeper asking about a potential 15.4" IPS screen, and he said "50-50 [possibility]; can't really discuss it as it's unreleased" [paraphrasing];

whatever the case, I decided to cancel my current T60 order and wait a few weeks; widescreen is really what I've wanted all along anyway....

 

same here, but the consensus seems to be that it won't be released till late december, early january...

 

It has to do with how you ask them If you sound confident that you know this for a fact and not calling them for confirmation but rather to find out the date of the announcement, they take you more seriously. And, I'm sure they have been instructed to confirm such an announcement if anybody ask. 2 weeks ago, you wouldn't hear it over the phone.

 

Yes, the widescreen likely won't be shipped until early Jan.

I wonder how much smaller/larger the dimensions will be.

 

yeah, my representative told me the announcement will take place late Nov, and systems will ship 3-6 weeks thereafter; I figure I might as well wait for the announcement, check out the planned configs, and go from there; if there is not a planned 15.4" IPS/Flexview, I'll just go with my original T60 15" order.....

the best things come to those who wait, no?

 

I'm hoping for a 14" WXGA+...

 

Yeah, but that waiting can drive you insane because all you do is WAIT for the LATEST and GREATEST!

 

corymcnutt, did you recieve your laptop yet? Let me know about heat with the Duo 2 Core processor in that think and light notebook. I'm a bit concerned if this would be an issue (vs Core Duo) for instance.

 

FWIW, according to posts over here, "... a sales rep today ... confirmed the 11/28 date and the widescreen T series ThinkPads ... they will be offering both matte finish and gloss finish screens ... the best way to see what screens would be offered is to look at the Z series"