Something I want to say about lenovo

Just not happy with Lenovo current situation. First of all, I'm from China. Well I would say Lenovo is going to fail if it doesn't have its ThinkPads of IBM original workers. So far its products are developing well. But for this company that originally comes from China that seems lack of well management and marketing strategy. See how many mistakes that Lenovo made such as "0" pricing laptops, cheaper price on selected 128 SSD and so on. For now go to Lenovo Canada website, it says processors are up to i7 but they don’t have that option when customize it. Strangely, for the x201s it has i7-620LM Processor 2.66GHz 1066MHz. It that 2.66 GHz made by Lenovo? For the supply part it says it will delay more than 4 weeks to select SSD. Who is gonna wait 4~5 weks to purchase a laptop!?
I think most people here don’t know that Lenovo spend most of sale revenue from China to support oversea markets. Most of its customers are Chinese. Let’s say I have 5 friends, 3 out of 5 are using Lenovo. But it is kind of narrow, cannot present everyone but there are a lot people and why it is so popular that the underground business of thinkpad such as used thinkpad laptops and smuggled thinkpads. When Lenovo took thinkpad, all Chinese think the prices will lower for us, because it’s our own company. But it was not and even worse. The prices of ThinkPad in China are the highest compare to any other countries. The first laptop T60 I bought in China it costs ￥23000 RMB in 2007(exchange rate 1:7 at that time, around $3285), at that time all Chinese people are asking Lenovo that “you were born here and grows up here, so why you repay the highest prices to us”. People can buy 2 thinkpads at U.S with the prices in China for one thinkpad. The CEO even said if they are cheap, people will think they are not good. But there are still many people buying them, also Chinese people are getting rich after the recently develop. For now it is much better that prices get lower, but still higher than Western counties. Here are the pics Lenovo just started its new student price program (cheaper for students) in china March 1, 2010.
All I want to say to Lenovo, it doesn’t change anything when you changed your name from Legend to Lenovo, it doesn’t changed when you build your headquarters at New York or England. They are not your places and not mine, you are still born in China. All you should do is to improve yourself. If we paid higher prices that could make you stronger, we would. But please don’t let us down and let the world disappointed.

Here are these pics that for students. 学子特惠价 means Special Price for Student (exchange rate 1:6.8)


Regular price for t500 17599￥ RMB

 

sadly, the price in China is crazy high for thinkpads.

 

China this, China that...the fact is that Lenovo is no longer the company it usedw to be anymore. Lenovo is a global company now and its strategy has to work for the global market, not China. Forget your Chinese pride, if you don't like Lenovo, vote with your money and support other brands. I'm Taiwanese but I'm not supporting JMicron just because it's a Taiwanese company.

By the way, I did wait 4 weeks before I got my X200 and I'm sure a lot of us did.

 

WTH?

The OP's saying that if the Chinese has to pay 3 times more to make Lenovo competitive in some of the biggest markets abroad, Lenovo better step up a notch and improves itself in all areas.

With the growing amount of wealth, I doubt they'll lower their prices anytime soon. There are too many people willing to pay for the most reputable brand there.

 

Level of pricing is relative to what the "local" markets are there. There is price discrimination for different areas of the world to maximize earnings.

It sucks when you can go online and see exactly how different that pricing is though...

 

Exactly. Lenovo's pricing is not that outrageous compared to the price of other computers in China. While computers are almost like simple everyday tools to most Americans, people living in China pay a significant amount of money even for an entry-level desktop. Laptops are even more expensive.

The past two laptops that my cousin in China used were both bought in the US and then carried over in luggage by family friends. And my aunt and uncle are still using a dinosaur computer because it's just too expensive to buy a new one.

Americans often take the pricing they receive for granted, while the majority of the world - even areas that produce the same goods for the US - pays far more for the same product.

 

With the massive income disparity in China, electronics play a very different social and economic role in that market.

In the US manufacturers are running each other down to the slimmest margins; not so much the case in China.

I guess just be a proponent of really free trade. Or fly it over as MidnightSun mentioned. I know people who have done that same thing for Brazil (or they sell them).

 

I hope it works globally, but look into Canada where Im living now. there is no single retail store here. How could lenovo build its customers here? All students Im having classes with that no one uses lenovo except CHINESE! chinese are helping and supporting lenovo. but itself never works really hard to let all westerners accept.

 

to op: first all, i was born in Shanghai and is now an Australian citizen, i am extremely nationalistic towards china. i know how you feel prices of the thinkpad in australia is much higher than the US even though the exchange rate is .9 to 1USD. Even though lenovo is a chinese company and the major shareholder is the chinese academy of sciences, the company's only objective is survival and profit maximization. we as consumers can afford nationalism and brand loyalty, a business entity can not afford it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

and please some basic economics before you make such accusations. more demand higher price, more supply demanded higher the cost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_leading_PC_vendors

thinkpad targets professionals, leonvo's main market is china not the west.

 

Well said, price discrimination sucks.
I imported my HP notebook from the US even with taxes / shipping&handling it cost me like 150 euro's LESS than the retail price they have here.

And I didnt know Lenovo was Chinese? I thought IBM created it?
O well, I feel the OP's pain. It shouldnt treat its root with disrespect..

Curious what drove them to ask the highest price in China though.. are theyn afraid people will export them massively?

 

Lenovo purchased the segment from IBM in 2005/2006.

Theoretically if the price difference is from you importing is still that much cheaper whatever business (Lenovo?) should raise their prices to capture that loss . Though I guess hassle is priced into it as well.

 

Can someone explain why do they charge the US less?

Also, within the EU wouldn't it be illegal to charge Holland more than the UK? I cant see there not being an EU law against that (there seems to be an EU law for everything else!).

 

Well for starters, the dollar is one cheap currency..

And I think because all the large companies are located / or have their origin in the States, it reduces the cost significantly.

Also Western Europeans are, relatively.. pretty rich. I originate from Morocco and every time im there I cant believe how much cheaper some things are there.. my first visit to the States last summer made me react the exact same way.

And no, no law can dictate a company to maintain a certain price for all its countries.. Im thinking budgetplans are based on the demographics of a certain country/region.

 

Actually I'm not complain about the pricing issue. I just customized x201 at U.S site around 2200 bucks. Price just reflects something that lenovo doesn't have markets internationally. I'm saying lenovo must push itself goforward. Well as you said it targets at higher income or professionals but it seems alomost half of here that people I know they use mac book or mac book pro. Lenovo should think about why it's market here is that low demand. If thinkpad is still owned by IBM then what could be?

 

Many American consumers would pass on Lenovo if they don't offer extremely competitive pricing in the US which is the biggest market. They are the indisputable number 1 in China so they can pretty much bank on the sales based on the brand name.

 

At least BMW is making money on it's oversea markets especiall in china. But I'm afraid lenovo does not. And BMW is kind of absolutly targets at high income families but lenovo has diversity products that try to target all levels needs however it seems it doesn't achieve it's goal so far at least in north American

 

I was born in Shanghai too.... hello to my fellow Shanghai-ren Australian...


Thinkpads in China can be brought cheaply (about 10 to 15 per cent higher than the average US market price), if you go through the grey market. Hence this is why Lenovo warranty depot in China, requires you to present original sales receipt and/or passport, before they can honour international warranty on Thinkpads brought from overseas.

Market dynamic in China is different to that of USA..... Also, Thinkpads have always been a premium product in China, and they are not going to ruin its status by decreasing the price.

In most western countries, the Pepsi is seen as an inferior product to that of Coca Cola, but in China it is skewed the other way around.... i guess this is the power of marketing for you.

 

north america is not lenovo's current concern, lenono is not stupid, the chinese market is about potential 4 times that of the american market. which one do you want dominate? yeah that's a no brainer, lenovo has home advantage in china.

sony is the king of the past, samsung is the king of the present and lenovo is the king of the future, and what do all these entities have is common? they all have a strong home base, so if their international adventure fails, they'll have something to fall back on.

and when china takes over america as the largest in 2030s, with the best engineers and the chinese CCP government support, lenovo will be laughing all the way to the bank. dominate the middle kingdom first, then world shall follow

 

Lenovo can't be the king of the future, because its product range is too limited. Samsung also makes Tanks and LCD panels.... Lenovo is just a computer company that has very little manufacturing capacity of its own.

Unless, Lenovo wants to expand its horizon regarding its operation, there is very little chance that Lenovo will become number one.

Hisense and Haier have more potential to expand its business in oversea markets than Lenovo. Lenovo became this behemoth of sort, only because it absorbed the IBM Computer division, it is not organic growth.

And, if Lenovo does all the production through contracted manufacturing... i doubt that it would be anything more mind blowing than what HP, Dell or Acer is doing right now.

Unless, the Lenovo gets a massive loan and acquire some other companies, than it will change very little from what it is now.

Also, before lenovo expand its business, it would really need to hire someone competent to deal with the logistical side of business, there is no point of expanding if you can't even ship your product to the customers on time.

 

Well I have been involved in enough businesses to know the terms "profit for shareholder" "bonuses" .... So yes when things are not correct by all means complain !! It still is beyond me how not a single company can get it ALL right. Lenovo is close but it would not cost them much to have decent screens, HDMI ports etc... it can be done from a technological point of view, so why not give the customers the best possible laptop you can make, and keep the price fair. The way pricing works: Basically and this is the truth, companies look at individual markets and see what they get away with. In Europe it is mainly companies who use Lenovo ... and companies don't mind throwing money around, since they erroneously think it's all tax deductable... I have always found that if you make an excellent product at a fair price you do good business without too many complaints at all. Problem is companies look at short term profit these day because they look at the way the world is run ...

 

Price discrimination is a fact of economics, I don't see what the fuss is about. It has always existed, and will continue to exist. The Chinese are obviously willing to pay the prices lenovo asked, and if they're not I don't think Lenovo would care, they have heavy international sales as well. If they raised their prices in the US without increasing quality... most enterprise purchases and leases would leave for Dell or HP. And China is the future of the economy... but not Lenovo. They're a one trick pony... they make computers... and that's it. Long standing behemoths have their fingers immersed in every industrial category they can think of (for example, kawasaki, or LG).

However I understand the OP's pain, and would like to say thank you! Perhaps your high prices subsidize our low priced ThinkPads!

 

And the low price Thinkpad in USA, is making the grey importer's rich.... It is not strange to see some people coming back from USA with three brand new thinkpads, and declaring it for personal use...

 

Actually,you can find the lowest price of Computer in US, not even Lenovo, the other brand such as Acer, Asus and Dell are also the same. Please take a look on the rest the world before posting.

 

Then let the brand fail. Why support a company that rips you off. I hear people talking about buying local all the time. At the end of the day, I buy from whoever gives me the best deal.

It's simple supply & demand. Lenovo CAN charge 3 times more in China, because they can. You have so many Chinese people willing to pay that much for Lenovo products, and limited supply, I'd sell it for 3x more, too.

 

Again it does not make it right .... It just goes to show that Customer Service is a nice idea, but no company really adheres to it. I have had my share of issues with large companies and they really don't care, and they are too big to take to court, and they know that. They do whatever they can as long as they can get away with it ... but it does not make it ethical at all. So all this "we listen to our customers etc" is all a lot of BS pardon my language...

 

Customer service, aside from product inquiries, is how the company treats you AFTER the transaction, not before. They are not providing poor customer service by refusing to lower prices. It may not seem right, but it definitely wouldn't be right for companies to not maximize profit on the basis of supply and demand either. And somebody would most definitely get fired if they said "well, we don't really NEED to charge X amount for this product, we could charge less and still turn a profit so let's do that." They are a business after all. And Keynesian economics doesn't lie. They take a demand curve, and a supply curve, and at whatever price point they intersect at... that's what they'll charge. Obviously demand in China for ThinkPad's is at a point where they can get away with charging that much and people are still willing to pay that amount. Economically, those peoples' demand for ThinkPads is inelastic, and so they will take the price hit just to get their hands on the product. They ARE listening to consumers, consumer demand that is! And it's not price gouging, they don't own the industry, there are other options available, yet customers choose NOT to go for cheaper alternatives and choose to pay top dollar. Nobody forces anyone in economics. It may not be favorable to the Chinese consumer, but they can just as easily take their hard earned money elsewhere. That would get the message across to Lenovo more than customer complaints. Yet they choose not to do that. There's nothing unethical about what's going on at all; they're not price gouging, or monopolizing, or using deceitful business practices. It's just business. To force a company to lower its prices because people "think" they're too high, that kind of regulation is unethical.

 

Wow, sounds horrible!

But than again, I would never buy a T500 for 2600,00$US regardless where I live. Those prices are way to high!

 

Good question.

Re. EU pricing: EU is far from as uniform as many people think. In many ways it can actually be compared to the US states and the managing of these. There are many country specific exceptions and policies. VAT is different from country to country as well. Some countries opt out of EU standards mostly to keep local voters happy. This is also why you still see other currencies than just the Euro.

As for US pricing, this is a larger topic than this thread can possibly handle

But in general terms I would mention Market dynamics, Market Potential, Price Elasticity, Sustaining Demand, Market Share/Position, Currency effects.

Even before the USD took major blows, pricing for electronics was already very attractive compared to most countries. The same applies to cars. With cars, even more so due to country specific registration taxes which can be absurd.

The US market is still a huge market with many consumers and businesses which together can bring in very high sales figures and unit sales (market share). A market which cannot be neglected by any company wanting to conduct business on a global scale. China is also such a country.

Most companies, especially those which are not producing locally in the US, would like to increase US prices and in turn their margins - however they are too afraid of affecting their sales or market position negatively - leaving an opening for competitors. In some ways, it is a vicious circle.

So in many ways, the USA is a "spoiled" country in terms of pricing - at least compared to most other countries.

Eventhough it is still considered a wealthy country (measured i.e. on GDP), the fact of the matter is that compared to many European countries, US buying power is not very high and outside of the US (especially Europe), many Americans will get a reality check and feel the wrath of non-US pricing . And just the opposite when it comes to Europeans going to the US. Especially those from the more wealthy regions, such as Northern Europe.

I could be an example of this. If I got a decent job, green card and moved to the US, I would be able to live very comfortably.

Where I live, one generally needd to pay for 3 cars, but only get 1 car. MSRP for my current car was 150,000 USD, but it is only a mid range premium car - an Audi A6 3.2. For the same price I could easily buy a nice Porsche in the US. However most people where I live can't afford a car in that range, so instead they drive around in the so-called "compact cars" which Europe is known for, but still probably pay at least twice the price of the same car in the US (that is, if you can find such a small car ) Gasoline is also more than twice the price in the US.

Refusing to pay the ridiculous prices in my own country, I import all my ThinkPads from i.e. UK and Germany (with IWS), but still pay a premium of about 30-40% more than the equivalent in the US.

It is not fair - but that is just how it is.

Spot on about the "pricing according to what you can get away with" comment.

However, I have to somewhat disagree with you about companies throwing money around. If they were mostly big spenders, Dell would never have had any leverage in the first place with their Latitudes. They used to be poorly designed laptops positioned to be a viable alternative to i.e. ThinkPads. But they were far from it in the past. The main success came from attractive pricing and to a certain extent good account management.

During and after the financial downturn most companies have become even more diligent about every aspect of their operations - including IT purchases.

 

Jabbajabba yes I agree with all your comments and I have a pretty good idea where you live and yes prices are absolutely ridiculous ! The throwing around cash indeed stems from my days in a particular consulting company and it was really prevalent across the whole industry in 1998-2006 ... now it must have changed. Mind you I don't see too many CEO / higher management running around with Dells. Most of them seem to have SONY or some LENOVO or MACs.

Cars is OK where I am but still about 30% cheaper in UK, so I am also looking to source a laptop in OK. I was after the AFFS screen but cannot find it so I may have to go and look for other option.

 

The Thinkpads prices are crazy in Sweden where i live as well.

 

I think you guys need to realize that "ethics" and "morals" for price discrimination in markets due to systematic frameworks that allow this to occur are not on the same level as your core human fundamentals of morality.

If a business wants to abuse its customers, theoretically a consumer can substitute away. The price differences are not the "fault" of Lenovo, but rather they are reacting to markets setup in such a way where they can maximize their earnings by utilizing different pricing structures in different regions.

Also we should also factor in some perspective about real wages in different countries too. Jabba mentioned buying power.

 

Lenovo's markets its products mainly to business people who do not need to pay for the hardware themselves. i.e the compnay pays. Lenovo has to differentiate between business & consumer markets which it does with the Ideapad series and even with the Edge and X100e. But expensive laptops may soon be a thing of the past as more and more business will need to look at their core expenses to make it through the next 2-5 years. So if they want to sell computers they will really need to up the ante to compete with Dell & HP, and make an overall excellent product for a good price. I think they underestimate the niche following they have from self-employed professionals & consumers who just want a great laptop with a matte screen. The fact they still offer a matte screen is an important part of this all. So they really SHOULD improve the quality and the options re screens.

 

Those were old ThinkPad prices, but that's why it was the higher snack bracket that bought into them, and professional operations/enterprises/businesses/institutions.

 

while a great discussion, this thread has found its way off the original topic.   there's an off-topic board if everyone wishes to discuss cost/income statistics.   the IBM/lenovo board unfortunately isn't the place for it.

thanks for understanding.

thread locked.