Strange things happening at the depot

Hey guys, some of you may remember the problems I had with my T61P.

If you didn't, I'll give you the reader's digest version: It didn't like 4 gigs of RAM. Using 4 gigs of RAM would cause random crashes during any 3D intensive game or software. Using one stick of RAM, the system would work fine, but any time I used 2 sticks of RAM it would act unstable. After extensive testing with different drivers, OS's, and different RAM sticks, and after reading the experience of other guys who had the same problem and had it fixed at the depot, I decided to send it in for depot repair.

Well, the latest update is kind of scary and strange. They are telling me they have tried swapping in 2 different motherboards and they still can not get the system to POST. If you don't know what that means, that basically means the system won't even power on successfully, or it is giving some crazy error code when you turn it on. WTF? So am I to believe that somehow the problem actually got worse at the depot, with trained professionals working on it?

Also, it seems especially strange because I sent the machine without any hard drive, RAM, or DVD drive (as I was told to). The depot is using their own RAM and hard drive for testing. So, they have already replaced the motherboard 2 times... What else is there that could be causing problems then? Am I to believe that somehow the CHASSIS is causing the system not to post? Or the screen? What else is there even? Or are they swapping in defective motherboards?

Anyways...just thought it was strange, and wanted to see what you guys make of it. I hope they figure it out, it sounds like they are stuck or something!

The tech's words were, they have tried 2 different planar cards (motherboard) and they still can't get the system to post. Wow... Just wow.

 

It could simply be that the motherboard architecture has a glitch in it that prevents 4 GB from working properly, in which case a motherboard (MAYBE BIOS) revision would be required.

 

Sounds like they need to just rebuild you a new system. If replacing the mobo isn't doing it, I couldn't imagine what else left to do. Unless they haven't tried replacing the video card on the mobo, if it is a separate serviceable item.

Any word on if they can replace your screen for you to while its there? I remember you polling about whether you should do that or not...

 

Yeah I wonder if there is a new revision and they just don't have any in stock so they are trying older boards? Or maybe the 1st level techs don't know what they are doing and this will have to get escalated to the senior techs or something? I dunno.

As for the screen, well, I have heard bad things about the screens going out lately, I would rather keep the screen I have than risk getting one that is darker. The one I had was pretty bright and I REALLY don't want one of the dim ones. The damaged pixel has actually somehow gotten better over time to the point where I can't even see it unless I go looking for it.

 

I had a similar problem with my X61T, EasyServ replaced the system board three times and still could not get the computer to boot. They ended up giving me a full refund.

 

are you freakin kidding me??

I don't want a full refund I want my system fixed so it works right!

Are they crazy or something?? these guys are supposed to be the experts...

How can they not fix it? There's not much left of my system, I sent it to them without hard drive, RAM, or DVD, worst-case they should be able to replace the whole damn thing and make it work!

EDIT: So you don't have the X61 any more, what laptop did you get instead? I REALLY don't want to buy a different brand but if they somehow can't fix mine, I will.

 

Why do they give refunds? Do you not have the option of a new machine?

 

Yeah smoothoperator did you ask for a refund or was that their idea?

 

They gave me the option of getting another machine but this was during the time when everything was on backorder so it would take a long time for me to get a new machine. I ended up taking the refund and getting a T61p 14.1". These easyserv tech's aren't too bright. Either that or all their parts they have there are refurbished defective parts.

 

If you have to re-order there should be a very nice discount in your future.

I would think they have a bad batch of motherboards, I mean I'm sure they have tried different sticks of RAM, Different hard Drives, and different Processors, so what else could it be? Unless they are using a hard drives with corrupt OS installations.

Geeze... That's BS... I feel for ya.

 

Hahah.. that's exactly how I feel... What a friggin joke. I have tried really hard to be a loyal Lenovo customer, but I'm starting to lose patience. I was always told that dealing with lenovo when buying the laptop was a big hassle, but once you got the laptop, IBM provided the actual support and it would be good service.

Well, so far that has not been the case. The people in the tech support center in Atlanta are VERY RUDE!!! So are the EasyServ customer hotline people. Every person I have talked to has been very rude and impatient with me, like they just didn't give a a crap.

I thought Lenovo was the problem and IBM's support was supposed to be good, but so far they have been pretty crappy.

The only positve thing about the whole experience so far have been the fast overnight DHL shipping, and the small amount of time in which my laptop was actually working correctly (while I only had 1 stick of RAM).

I take that back - the DHL shipping wasn't great either, the people on the hotline where you request a pickup were VERY rude too!

What a hassle. Meanwhile, I am forced to use my "spare" laptop (thank goodnes I have one). It's an Acer and the keyboard is so bad I can hardly type on it.

Hopefully tomorrow will have some better news! I don't mean to sound like a hopeless optimist, but if they can actually FIX my laptop for good, it will be worth the hassle. I was very fond of the THinkpad when it was working properly.

 

Well it is now tomorrow (today) and I'm afraid the news isn't good. Today's status update:

Hold for Parts - Service call is on hold until parts arrive, estimated at: None provided

Damn... so I get to wait for parts for some unknown amount of time.

I'm afraid I might be stuck in the "motherboard back-order" line now

Pretty sucky. Damn it Lenovo why didn't you test your T61P more before you released it??? Now there is a ton of people needing motherboard replacements. Damn it...

 

"Damn it Lenovo why didn't you test your T61P more before you released it???"

Because they may have found problems?

 

Well I called the depot hotline today to see if I could get more detailed information.

The guy told me the same thing the website says, that the order is on parts hold. He added that they ordered a motherboard from the manufacturer and the manufacturer did not give an ETA when the part might be available, so they had no idea, not even a guess. He became defensive when I tried to ask for more information and basically said, any machine can break down, and I can't help you, call sales if you want to talk to someone who cares.

He said if I was unhappy I should have returned the machine for a replacement if it was within 15 days of the purchase. Funny thing is, it WAS within 15 days of the purchase, but when I called about these problems, I was told I COULDN'T return the machine because I had used it. They told me at the time that I HAD to send it to the depot for repair. Now it's stuck at the depot for God only knows how long. I can't afford to waste this much time! It already took me weeks to get this machine when I ordered it, and now I am faced with the possibility of being without it again for some unknown period of time.

So far every support person I have spoken within the Atlanta call center either has been apathetic, or else downright rude. If I was Lenovo I would whip those Atlanta call center operators into shape, someone needs to teach them some people skills for chrissake. They are really unacceptable. They act like they are ready for a fight the moment you start talking to them!

If I dealt with customers they way they do, I would lose my job. I wonder if the reason the call center operators are so rude is because there have been so many problems with Lenovo's current products that they are constantly dealing with angry customers?

I'm getting really close to giving up on this company forever.

 

Working tech support myself, I can certainly attest to the fact that call-center techs tend to feel somewhat powerless in the middle of a massive problem like an entire line having motherboard issues. This is because they are the first-line, so they get to take most of the bullets for sales or the factory. If you are not professional in your attitudes toward your job, it is easy to begin resenting the fact that 50% or more of the customers you speak with want nothing more than to abuse you, so they start brushing ANY customer off who calls in about the same issue.

I've worked with a few techs like that before (mainly when doing ISP support, where the fecal matter can easily hit the fan in a hurry), and it was difficult to resist the temptation, myself, sometimes.

Still, it's not good that Lenovo is not keeping close enough tabs on their technicians to know when the feces has piled up to the point of techs ignoring or abusing their customers.

 

Yeah...another thing that bothers me is that the tech support people act like there's nothing wrong with the T61 line, even though there have been many reports on the forums of motherboard problems. They say no, they have never heard of this problem, etc. How can they not be aware of this problem if there have been this many reports of it on the forums? Surely for every person who posts about it online, there are a bunch more people with the same problem who don't happen to be forum users. I would expect a trend found on the forums would be indicative of a larger trend in the general population.

The fact that motherboards are back-ordered with no ETA known seems to be just another piece of evidence to indicate that they are replacing an inordinate number of motherboards, and there must be a defect of some kind.

 

If you paid with a credit card, you should be able to dispute the charge and provide the very LONG list of what you have attempted to do with Lenovo and their handling of the situation. Lenovo has the machine, so get your money back from the credit card company and let them deal with Lenovo. I've done this in the past with a company that basically sent me a lemon motherboard and spent 2 months screwing around with every excuse in the book. I had all the emails, dates, etc. and my credit card company said no problem. They disputed the charge (so I didn't have to pay that portion of the bill) and then they eventually removed/credited the charge because the PC company wouldn't even deal with the credit card folks to resolve the issue!!!

 

I'm not sure how I would do the credit card dispute, the problem is Lenovo doesn't have the entire machine, I was told I could send them the machine without the hard drive, DVD drive, or RAM installed. So I actually have those parts of the machine in my posession. I'm not sure how that changes things. Thanks for the advice though.

 

Not sure why so many motherboards would be back ordered, but one possible explanation for your average tier 1 tech not being aware of the problem would be the fact that the notebook WORKS using 2 GB of RAM. It's only with 2 2GB SODIMMs that the problem crops up, which is going to reduce the amount of users who may be affected.

Or it could just be the line they are instructed to give any customer to avoid even more disgruntled customers.

 

Yeah I bet lot of people aren't having this problem if they are running just 1 stick of RAM.

Minor correction: The problem wasn't only with 2 2gb sodimms it was also happening with 2 1gb sodimms, or 1 2gb and 1 1gb together. Oddly enough, it seemed to work fine with 1 1gb sodimm and 1 512 meg sodim lol... Crazy problem...

I have to remember how little some of the Tier 1 support people know. I talked to one tier 1 tech who seemed pretty knowledgeable, but another time I talked to a tech who, after hearing my long history of problems and how I tried testing with 1 sodimm at a time, different drivers, etc.. actually instructed me to try REBOOTING the machine!! He also had me try removing and re-installing the battery, and other completely idiotic things that made absolutely NO sense given how many more advanced things I had already tried!

 

I was in the same situation. I shipped the remaining parts back to where I shipped the motherboard and provided the shipping information to the credit card company. Other then waiting for the dispute to pan out, I didn't have to do anything else.

 

Hmmm...I'm willing to bet Lenovo is still trying to use single SODIMMs whenever possible, since it tends to be cheaper. It's crazy that the 1 GB + 512 configuration works, though.

 

Yeah, I might have just not tested it long enough in this configuration to produce an error, it SEEMED to work.

 

good luck hellbore; i hope this works out for you

 

Why dispute so early?? Use that as a last resort... otherwise when you really need to dispute something your credit card company may not like it.

 

I just ran it for the full test. It stopped on it's own after 15 minutes and flashed "PASSED!!!" on the screen.

Vista 64-Bit
nVidia 140M
4GB RAM
Lenovo Video Driver

 

When you say the full test do you mean you didn't use the directions I posted, you just let it do all the tests?

The reason I posted the instructions was becuase on my machine, if I ran all the tests at the same time, it did not crash.

It only crashed when I ONLY ran the 3D graphics test all by itself like in my instructions.

If i ran the 3D graphics test at the same time as the memory or hard drive or other test, it would not crash.

I don't know why it made a difference, except I did notice that the framerate on the 3D graphics test is MUCH higher if you run it alone, like in my instructions.

I think that might have been why it would crash when I did only the 3D test alone, perhaps the other test were preventing the 3D graphics test from working the graphics card hard enough. There was probably a memory or bus bottleneck or something when running the other tests that prevented the graphics card from running as hard as it could.

So if you didn't, I would appreciate if you could try doing it like in my instructions, with only the 3D graphics test, in fullscreen mode. You might get a different result... I sure did.

 

No, no, no. I'm all about instructions remember. Everyday I'm on here telling people to follow my instructions to the letter in the clean install guide.

I followed your instructions, exactly. When I said I ran the full test, all I meant was that I ran it until it stopped on its own. You said to run it for "maybe 15 minutes or so". All I am saying is that I ran the test for the full duration (and exactly as you said to run it).

 

All the test did was have planes circling around in full screen non-windowed, right?

 

Yeah it's just the circling planes... Just makin sure you were doing the same test as me. Thanks for checking that out, I appreciate it.

I guess your T61P isn't broken like mine

 

Well, it's not apples to apples. I don't have a "P". I've got the 140M graphics. So, maybe someone with the 570M will run the test.... It was painless.

 

Yeah I think you're right, the other people I have heard from who seemed to be having the same problem as me had T61P's with the 570M.

 

You know. I've been reading up a little about BioShock. There are alot of people saying that it is full of bugs AND lots of stuff that can not be erased from you system without doing a clean install. Do you think there is any chance that BioShock installed something that caused an instability issue. Something that even makes this BurnIn Test to error. Maybe it's a long shot, but just a thought.

I realize you didn't send your hard drive, but maybe the issues tech support is having with your system is because of a bad batch of motherboards they have. Do you know if they were able to replicate the same problem you were having even with a different HDD and OS install? Or did they just jump right in and replace the motherboard based on the inf you told them?

I'm just trying to help you figure it out? It's puzzling.

 

I don't know, they won't let me talk to the people who actually are working on it. I have called the depot phone line several times and they tell me I can't talk to the actual techs, and the guys at the call center have no idea what they are talking about. They only read me the very vague notes the techs wrote on my file.

I did provide a rather long and detailed problem history on paper, which MIGHT have made them want to replace the motherboard right away, but that seems kind of unlikely to me... I know I wouldn't trust a customer that much without performing some tests myself But who knows...

At any rate, I highly doubt that my issue was a software issue, there were some other strange things I probably haven't told you about. For example, the loud squealing noises coming from the motherboard over by the ultrabay connector. I know, I know, you're probably gonna say it's the cpu and core 2 duos make this noise...well this noise was too loud to be the "normal" cpu noises, and I listened to a couple other core 2 duo laptops my friends and family own, and none of them had a noise anywhere near this loud.

That's not so important though, you could still argue that noise was CPU related maybe, but there was a more blatant error. When installing the stock 1gb lenovo RAM stick into the top-most memory slot (the one farthest from the motherboard) the system would sometimes fail to post, giving a beep error code. The error code was 1 beep, pause, 3 beeps, pause, 1 beep. I looked this code up and it said the error was related to the memory.

Also, after a fresh vista install, before I installed any third party video drivers or Bioshock, I was having some other issues with instability. At the time I didn't think it was a big deal, I thought it was just Vista being stupid. For example, Explorer would frequently stop responding and have to be restarted. Occasionally I would also get the nvlddmkm.sys error just while doing stuff like surfing the web.

I doubt these problems were just Vista being stupid, because they went away when I took out one of the memory sticks. Also, I don't really think Vista is that buggy, I run Vista on this other cheapo Acer laptop and it has never had any kind of error of any kind.

I hope they figure it out soon, it's pretty frustrating to have it sitting in the depot waiting for a part and they can't even tell me how long it will take!

 

OK, here's an update on my depot experience!

As you may know, the depot received my T61P on the 20th, so that makes 5 days now. Today they shipped it out, though I don't know if it made it out in time to be delivered in the morning or if I'll see it Saturday.

Just to recap, my machine was working fine with 1 stick of RAM, but when I put in 2 sticks of RAM, it would still work for most tasks, but occasnionally Explorer would lock up and any game or 3D graphics program would cause a variety of crashes.

WHen the depot got my machine, they replaced the motherboard aka planar card, TWICE, but said they still "couldn't get it to post" with 2 different motherboard. VERY strange, because I never had issues with it not posting. They were talking like the thing was totally dead.

Next, they ordered a part which took until today to arrive. Well, at first they told me this back ordered part was another motherboard. Guess what... Today, talking to them, they told me something different. They said the new part they ordered was....drum roll... a CPU! HUh? Where did that come from?So today they are telling me that my CPU was dead and they had to order a new CPU, and that's the part they wer waiting on. CRAZY! My CPU was definitely NOT dead when I sent the machine in! Sure, I had problems sometimes with larger amounts of RAM, I don't see how that could be caused by a bad CPU but hey, it's possible right... but DEAD? My cpu was definitely not dead.

So now, today, all they have been able to tell me is that the machine now has a new CPU, and they tested the system and it appears to be working, so they are sending it back. They didn't tell me whether they tested to make sure it will work with 4 gigs of RAM now, they didn't tell me whether they tested 3D graphics, they couldn't even verify for me WHICH kind of CPU they installed. They better not send me back a slower CPU than the one I had! They couldn't answer these questions and they said only the actual tech doing the work would know, but then they said I couldn't speak with the techs to ask them these questions because they were just too busy!

The only thing I heard that sounded comforting was, they told me today that a higher level tech was working on the laptop, because my case had been escalated when the lower techs couldn't get the machine to POST.

However, what really freaked me out is, when I asked the phone rep to read me what the case file said for the description of the problem, it was all wrong! The dang tech who authorized the repair in the first place wasn't listening to me or something, and the problem description was wrong. It said "Customer replaced stock RAM with 2gb of Lenovo RAM and system would not work. Customer put the Lenovo RAM back in, and system still doesn't work and gets memory parity errors."

Wow... That is really not the same thing as what I told him!

Anyways, you are probably tired of reading about this, but hopefully tomorrow the package will come and I will find out whether they fixed the issue or not.

When I sent it in for repair, I did include a very detailed description of the problems I was having on paper, with the laptop. I just hope that the techs read it and didn't just go off of that not-quite-correct problem description in the LEnovo system.

 

I'm not tired of reading it Hellbore, I like how you kept a "diary" here of your experience. Read it all the way though and after each post I was hoping the next one will be you receiving it. I'm anxious to hear the outcome and I really hope to see it work out great. I got my fingers crossed for you.

 

Thanks braddd, I too hope for the best. If I receive it tomorrow that's 6 days turnaround, not bad at all. I know I have complained about this whole situation but it's all water under the bridge to me if they have fixed the problem. However, if the machine comes back still not working correctly, or with new problems, that will be extremely frustrating. I want to be able to say positive things about Lenovo. Let's hope they don't let me down!

 

The squealing sound could be a loose capicitor. I had a Toshiba that made that noise. Motherboard was replaced. How come there is no QC check on systems before they ship?

 

Probably cheaper to let the customer do the quality control and let them send it in on warranty.

 

don't worry hellbore, I like to see how this is going and i like that you keep us updated...instead of the posts were the thread just ends abruptly..this way when users in the future do searches they can follow it all the way through

 

Any number of things could have happened to your processor. They could have zapped it with some static or dropped it when they were swtching it from planar to planar. Who knows. I'm sure you'll get the same processor as before.

 

Hey man I hope you get it in working order, I imagine you machine must have cost a lot of $ so it must be a pain in the ass to deal with all the problems and dalays when you need a computer...

 

They replaced my planar board and cpu as well. Everything run great now. No worries man..

 

Hellbore, hope all works out well, looking forward to reading a "happy to report" story later today.

 

Bad news:

I called today because there's no tracking number showing up on the status. Well, that's because they didn't end up shipping it after all.. it is back in repairs.

Last night they thought they had it fixed but it failed the burn-in test. So, they have supposedly escalated it to a higher tech (again? or is this a higher tech than the first escalation?). Now they are working on it again.

I bet I know what happened. Yesterday they were telling me they replaced the motherboard, then it wouldn't post, so they had to replace the CPU. Well the CPU worked when I sent it in. They were telling me the CPU was the only problem and they put the original motherboard back in! Idiots... I bet you the motherboard IS bad like I guessed, but THEY somehow broke my CPU in the process of working on the machine, so then I had to wait for them to order a CPU, then they put the broken POS motherboard BACK in there... and only NOW they are seeing the actual original problem I sent the machine in for!!!

These depot repair people are sounding more and more like bunch of clowns, this is friggin ridiculous. Just replace everything you morons!

 

Hi Hellobore,

I'm very sorry things didn't go well for you today. That has to be dissapointing and hurtful.

Perhaps some historical perspective may help. Once upon a time, field service reps were very saavy engineers. They didn't go anywhere without an oscilloscope and they could diagnose and repair a board at the chip level.

I rather think that MBAs are the root of all evil. It was MBAs who identified board swapping as cheaper than what i described above. The whole thrust has been reduce labor costs and labor costs are reduced by employing lower caliber people. The process has continued to the point that now the CPU is on a chip and then there's the planar. You don't have to know very much about either to swap them and see what happens. That's the object of the game and that's why no one can get meaningful service anymore which is because the world is being engineered so that techs do not have to think any more.

This trend is continuing though. It's highly resented when customers think too. We don't get paid for it.... we just pay for the people who do not think.