Survey: Your Ideal Business Laptop

Current, past and potential ThinkPad users:
Please take this survey when you can spare a couple of minutes.

The main motivation for the survey is to convince Lenovo to build at least some ThinkPads with better screens (like IPS or PVA). The survey is the first step in a plan that could result in Lenovo building such Thinkpads.

The survey also includes questions about which features are important to you in a business-class laptop. So I encourage you to take it even if you don't care about premium screen options for your next ThinkPad.

Thanks for your help!

Updated survey results are here.

 

Hi Indrek,

The "USB 3.0" port is not a typo. This is an "ideal" laptop, remember

And I think you're right about it not being broadly available. We can only hope that it will soon be available, that it will be as fast as promised, that drivers for our favorite OS are forthcoming, and that it will be backward-compatible with our existing USB devices.

 

I took it.

Two things:

You don't have a 12.1" or smaller model listed. I think one of the x200 series should be an option. Possibly include a TabletPC as well to round out the option list.

The x301 by default has a WXGA+ (1440x900) display, you mistakenly list it as WXGA (1280x800).

 

Thank you

You are correct, thank you for your sharp eyes!

Honestly this was a mistake, I didn't realize the default X301 screen has higher resolution than those on the larger T400, T500, W500. And nobody in the Lenovo forums caught this before we started the survey. If we run another survey, I'll post it here first for proofreading.

For the major purpose of this survey, it's actually better that the base X301 screen is listed as 1280x800. We're trying to find people's favorite screen size and resolution for their "ideal" business-class laptop, which uses the screen of their choice in an existing ThinkPad body. Some people might prefer the 1280x800 resolution for a 13.3" screen. Though not many, judging by survey results so far.

It is intentional that no screens smaller than 13.3" are included. Rightly or wrongly, it was assumed that users with 12.1" business-class laptops would have them connected to external monitors or projectors much of the time, so that the quality of the integrated screen would not be so important. And yet several survey respondents have "written in" the X200. If enough do that we will have to reconsider.

The existing X61 and X200 tablets already come with wide-viewing-angle premium screens. So there wasn't much point including those in this survey, the major purpose of which is to get some premium screen options for ThinkPads that currently have none.


Thanks for your comments!
-Frank

 

I took the survey - Twice! Both times it went "fatal error" on me - perhaps because I use Opera, but I'm not doing it again, that's for sure.

However, I'm yet another of those people mentioning the X200/s.

A few of the reasons for this choice is the size of the thing (12" but with a WXGA+ resolution), the Expresscard slot, battery life, weight - and did I mention size?

Another thing is the USB3. It would be hard arguing to your boss (or yourself as it may be) that USB3 was, say, "crucial", given that there would be nothing you can connect to it at this point in time (other than USB2-peripherals, that is).

Screen size:
I think it's wrong to assume that people with 12" computers have them connected to external screens most the time. One of the few reasons to go that small is to have the smallest package possible. And the people who benefits the most from that are the people who don't sit a desk most of the time, if that makes sense?

I seldomly connect my X200s to an external screen, as I mostly use mine "in the field".

Anyway, I'm bummed I couldn't get the survey to work

 

I'm aware the tablet has a high quality display (that is a large part of the reason why I chose it).

However, many of us prefer to have a lighter/smaller notebook and don't require optical drives on a regular basis. Further, I use my x200T with the internal display 98%+ of the time.

As nice as the x300/x301 is, I tend to prefer the x200 range due to the smaller footprint, SDHC reader, 54mm ExpressCard, superior battery options, and lack of an optical drive requirement (the x301 bay is too slim for a second HDD/SSD, I don't believe in "travel bezels", and the bay battery has deficiencies that make it impractical for daily use).

Further, in the interest of a "fair" survey you should include models that have premium screens already (x61T, x200T, or the much loved T60P). Also, I wouldn't mind a high resolution option (e.g. 1680x1050) on my x200T like the x61T had.

 

Me too. I'm very sorry for your trouble.
I will include the comments you posted here in the survey results.
Would you mind answering: (you're welcome to PM me if you like):
Have you used a MVA/PVA/IPS screen before: (don't know / yes / no)?
Laptop you would choose: X200s I assume, but what screen resolution?

If anybody else has had trouble with the survey I'd like to know. Were you also using Opera? Thanks.

---

I appreciate your comments about USB 3.0, and especially about your X200s.

Thanks,
Frank

 

I took the survey earlier in Opera, with no issues.

 

Good to know. Thanks for the info. I wonder if non-tablet users do the same? (I guess Awdiyo does.)

You must have VERY good vision

All great machines, and displays.
X61 Tablet is still listed in tabook 356 (May 2009); I wonder how much longer Lenovo will continue making it?
T60p is history, so not of interest for this survey.

Thanks,
Frank

 

Yes, I have tried IPS-screens. One on a tablet, and from time to time on an external monitor.

To tell you the truth, color accuracy et al doesn't mean much to me, but it would be nice to have bigger viewing angles. It seems any and all recent screens have you tethered to the screen, as opposed to screens of years past. I know, I sound like an old fart, but when it comes to screens it seems as technology is moving backwards. On the upside, Thinkpads still have matte screens

1440x900/WXGA+. Much higher than that and it will be too small in a 12", and 1280x800 is too little real estate. In fact, I will not buy a 1280x800 computer, even if it were smaller and lighter than the one I'm typing this one. I think that the smallest physical yet comfortable screen size for WXGA+ is the 12". But it would be neat to make do without those grand bezels and have it look like the X61s.

No problems. Thanks for including me

 

I had a UXGA (1600x1200) T42p Flexview (given by my employer), for 2+ years until a year ago. It was destroyed in an accident.

But right when it happened, widescreens were invading Lenovo. uughh. I waited for several months, wondering if Lenovo would come out with a bigger than WXGA+ and IPS (or PVA) screen, but to no avail. I was about to purchase a X301, but read about the horrible screen. I went to a Sony store, and used a Sony Vaio Z. The screen was awesome (plus, it's 1600x900), so I bought one instead. But, after 5 months of intensive use, i regret not having the thinkpad keyboard.

If Lenovo comes out with a WSXGA+ IPS or PVA (like their WUXGA excellent L220x LCD screen I have in my office) I would jump on it immediately. Heck, maybe a WXGA+ IPS screen would be enough. Anything is better than the bad screens Lenovo is putting in their precious laptops.

 

Took the survey, ended up picking the T400

 

Took the survey as well. Chose the T400 with WXGA+.. WXGA would've been my second choice. Hopefully our surveys will be taken into consideration.

 

As an old fart you'd probably remember laptops cost a lot more back then too. This is the reality we live in today. You pay less you get less.

 

That is a non-argument.
Our CPU's are much faster, yet cheaper, RAM is faster, yet cheaper, harddisk is cheaper, yet faster and much bigger in capacity, batteries are lighter, yet much better, and last much longer per weight, and on and on.

The only world were your argument wouldn't be a pseudo-argument is one where everything was equal historically speaking. In fact, the tech world is propable the place where that sort of argument adheres to the least.

Now, if you were comparing like for like - in this case screens from the same point in time - then, yes, quality costs (as was always the case).

 

Manufacturing is probably the main issue here. Economies of scale play a huge role in higher-end panels. Maybe lenovo feels that the market would not want the option with the increase in cost. I do...

Most users are fine with cheapo TNs and so those are massively produced in comparison to IPS/AFFS/etc.

 

The more questions you have, the less likelihood someone will take the time to complete the entire survey.

 

Thanks for your comment. I hope the survey isn't too off-putting. Most of the questions are optional, so hopefully it's possible to complete in just a couple of minutes if you don't want to answer all the questions and enter text comments.

 

I'm glad there doesn't appear to be a widespread problem using Opera to take the survey, thanks for posting

 

Thanks to all who filled out the survey!

We have just under 100 responses so far.
It would be great to get even more.

So far I've posted links to the survey in these places:
1. Lenovo forum (2008-06-11)
2. thinkpads.com forum (2008-06-12)
3. Linux-Thinkpad mailing list (2008-06-12)
4. NotebookReview.com Lenovo/IBM forum (this thread) (2008-06-13)

Please let me know of other places with with past/current/prospective ThinkPad users who may be interested in taking the survey. And please feel free to post the survey link yourself, and/or email it to people who would be interested.

If you post the suvey link to a public place, it would be great if you would note that in this thread, so we have some idea of the populations taking the survey.

Thanks!
Frank

 

Cant take a survey, but the perfect business class notebook would be my vostro with the battery life of my t400.

 

I looked at the results and the fact that a large number said they don't want any OS or would want a flavor of Linux would indicate this is mostly enthusiasts and not typical business users taking the survey. Even the large number asking for Windows 7 is indicative of enthusiasts. Unfortunately, that probably will make Lenovo pay less attention to these results, enthusiasts are such a small minority of buyers but of course are by far the most vocal.

The other problem is that the suppliers mostly wag the tail of what goes into a laptop, not the manufacturers. In other words, LG and Samsung dictate what screens they'll make and not the other way around. Like steel making or basically any other supplier / raw material provider there are markets of efficiency to having a certain volume and if they can't meet that volume they'd rather just sit and wait for demand than turn on a processing line that will lose money.

 

I just bought a X200 tablet. Didnt recive it yet but I would pay extra $ for even better high res screen.

Thought about getting X60 tablet with sxga+ but had no luck with finding new one.

Id be very happy if there was high res option for tablets. And of course 4:3 ratio ...

Im sure there are a lot more people who would pay more for this. But they dont because there is no option for this while configurating on website

Cheers

 

I truly believe some people like you would pay more, but it's more than just the $$$ up front issue. First of all, it wouldn't be a +$200 option it would be +$400 - $500 because they would have to have a small supply of high-end screens and it costs a lot to get a manufacturer to cut the glass and do the QA for a small batch. Second of all, when Lenovo did have higher end options the supply / demand was very hard to predict and therefore if a shortage arose and they had to delay an order for 2+ months while they waited on the supplier to crank out more of the high-end screens the customer just cancelled the order. And you could say well why don't they order a ton of screens and keep them in inventory ahead of time? Well, keeping inventory costs money and causes accounting expenses, plus they have to keep that inventory years down the road in case an enterprise buyer needs replacements.

It's just not as easy for a company like Lenovo to decide to produce something because a small group of buyers say they would like it. Now, if you get IBM and Exxon, companies who buy tens of thousands of notebooks a year to tell Lenovo that they'll pay $5,000 for a high-end laptop then game on baby. Unfortunately, I can tell you that IBM is actually asking Lenovo to make things cheaper, a la $600 - $700 netbooks please and cheaper if they can. They are definitely not asking for better more expensive products for their employees.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade here, just trying to point to some realities. I don't rule out that maybe Lenovo would consider an IPS for say a very high-end W500 or W700 workstation, something they can make a high-margin profit on and charge over $4,000 for, but I can't possibly see them doing anything high-end screen wise in a laptop that costs even $2,000.

 

Hi Andrew, thanks for your comments!

I agree. This is probably at least partly because the links to the survey were posted in enthusiast forums and mailing lists and because most of the responses so far are from Friday afternoon and over the weekend.

It's great that enthusiasts are taking the survey! Many of the comments indicate a great deal of thought about what makes a good business-class laptop. These machines can be excellent choices for those who are not typical business users.

It would also be great to get more responses from typical business users. If anybody has ideas for how to encourage more such responses I'd love to hear them

I've been thinking about posting the survey link into other sub-forums here (like the Dell Latitude, Vostro and Precision forum) that would be likely to have a large fraction of people with business-class laptops. Is such cross-posting ok? Probably it would attract a different flavor of enthusiasts, and maybe some typical business users too?

When Lenovo discontinued ThinkVantage System Update (TVSU) in April, a large group of users complained. Lenovo listened, and released a new TVSU several weeks later. If enough people ask for something (and especially if they are willing to pay for it) it makes good business sense for Lenovo to listen.

I wonder what is the magic volume number needed by panel manufacturers to turn on the processing line?

From Matt Kohut's blog:

It seems 15,000 orders may be sufficient to get an IPS panel option. I don't know whether a PVA panel would need a similar volume to be profitable.

On the bright side, there is already a supply of at least one relatively-wide-angle TN panel: AUO B154PW04 V0 6. I think Dell uses this panel in the Latitude E6500 that has received good reviews here and at notebookcheck. While a TN panel isn't what most people would consider the highest-quality display, the wide-viewing-angle panel would at least be an improvement over what currently goes into many ThinkPads.

---

To sum up: I take Matt Kohut's above words seriously. If we can gather enough paying customers (be they enthusiasts, "typical" business users, or whatever) Lenovo will at least consider building us the ThinkPads we want.

This survey is meant to be the first step toward gathering such a critical mass of users.

Thanks,
Frank

 

That being said I would never give them my CC so they can decide to start producing a laptop with a nice screen .

But any screen improvements are welcome.

 

I see your point. But when I pay extra $ for thinkpad I expect it to be built well with quality materials. I know that manufacturers have to cut down costs because there is financial crysis or they want to have bigger income but not sacrificing good name, good brand which is(I hope we never use "was" Thinkpad. In some countries its very hard to get your dream ThinkPad with customised as they wish. But they still buy them for top money to get that quality and durability which ThinkPad is fameous for.

In my opinion every ThinkPad should strat with good screen. I dont mean very high quality screen but one that nobody complains about viewing angles etc etc. If you want even better screen which is high res you pay + $400-$500 extra.

If you have a business laptop it doesnt mean that you have it all the time connected to projector. I very often in travel use Laptop's display. I dont make computer graphic but I would like high resolution screen with good viewing angles for my tablet. If I didnt have tablet I still would want to have good screen. I just dont want to pay for brand which is lowering their quality because of financial crysis.

Cheers

 

Most people aren't paying much of a premium for ThinkPads. If you know how to do the coupons and work the Outlet, which a lot of people here do, you'll pay less for a ThinkPad than for a notebook from BestBuy or the like.

Nobody else like Dell or HP is killing themselves to make these either. There's no incentive for Lenovo to do any better. I'd be nice if they offered a nice screen, but they don't. Other than the IPS screen, most ThinkPad screens of yore were average at best. Dell has the RGB-LED, which I've heard is nice, but doesn't offer the angles of the IPS. I think as much as it's discussed here and other ThinkPad forums, the number of people who'd pony up is very small. There's a thread over on ThinkPads.com in which you can commit to paying the extra for a quality screen. I think there's 20-30 names on it and they need 15,000 for Lenovo to take them seriously. For every thread on here lamenting the poor screens, there's 20 asking about the latest coupons.

It always seemed like when IBM was in charge, they set out to make the best notebook they could, but now that Lenovo is in charge, they're here to sell. That's not a knock on them cause they're Chinese or whatnot, but they've decided to make ThinkPads more accessible. On the plus side, a lot of people here have them who couldn't otherwise afforded them and they still offer a premium over other notebooks in my opinion, but Dell and HP are now very competitive. I'll be hanging on to my IPS ThinkPad for the foreseeable future.

 

Yes, that would clearly be unfair to you, the buyer.

But it does appear that buyers will need to show some monetary commitment to convince Lenovo to build a ThinkPad with a premium screen. Probably to prevent situations like the one Andrew mentioned, where a customer would cancel an order and leave them with unwanted inventory.

I've been thinking about ways we might demonstrate monetary commitment that are fair to both us and to Lenovo. Let's say a premium screen added $200 to the cost of a ThinkPad, configured as you want it. What about a system where we could deposit $200, the cost of the premium screen, with a third party. We could get our deposit back (probably minus some small processing fee, maybe $5-10) at any time prior to Lenovo agreeing to build our machine. Once Lenovo agreed to build the machine, we can no longer get our deposit back. Instead, it is applied against the cost of the machine when we order it. NOTE: If we never order the machine, we simply lose our deposit. That would compensate Lenovo for the unwanted inventory. After we order the machine Lenovo would have to deliver it within 60 days (say) or the contract is broken and we get our deposit back.

Something like that would seem to protect both us and Lenovo, while demonstrating our commitment to purchase the machine if they produce it.

What would you say to an arrangement like that?

Appreciate anybody's thoughts on the matter...

Amen to that

 

I think its good idea. About 200USD isnt that much for me.

But I have already ordered x200 Tablet ... hmm but maybe next time I hope my new tablet will be working very well and very long

Cheers

 

Me too. That's one of the very few current notebooks with an excellent screen. Enjoy

 

Came across this excellent website today:
http://lcdtech.no-ip.info/en/tests/

It has very complete information on LCD panels available for desktop and notebook use. And online tests for panel color-shift and dynamic range. My calibrated external MVA monitor does very well on the dynamic range test but shows large color shifts at only about 45 degree viewing angle. I've noticed some color shifts in day-to-day work, but this test really brings them out.

Thanks again to all who took the survey
As of this morning there are 167 responses.

Thanks!
Frank

 

I was disappointed in having to choose between high-nit and WXGA+, in my case. In the end, WXGA+ won; I need the resolution more than LED backlighting or the additional brightness. However, I would have paid extra for this.

I have a PVA panel on my desktop (Dell 2407WFP) and it's very beautiful. However, I'm close enough to my laptop screen that I don't need extreme viewing angles. I also value my privacy, so I sort of like a limited angle. The extra brightness and uniform backlighting of LED was the one thing that might have gotten me, if it was available at the resolution I wanted.

I also lament the 15" ThinkPads not having a WXGA+ option. This is the perfect resolution for me at 15"; WSXGA+ (1680x1050) was small for me on a 20" widescreen; I guarantee it wouldn't work for me on a 15".

 

See I wish they had wsxga+ on the t400. Had the t500 had wuxga I might have gone that route instead of the t400.

 

A big Thank You to all who took the survey.

Almost 200 responses as of today!


Please take a couple of minutes to take the survey if you haven't already. We need all the responses we can get. A large number of responses will help demonstrate to Lenovo that a significant number of users want a premium screen in their next ThinkPad.

Thanks again for your help!

 

I'm bumping this thread again, to announce that as of today over 250 people have returned surveys.

Thank you very much for your time, and for all your thoughtful comments. It's clear that you have given serious thought to what makes a great ThinkPad.

There are people at Lenovo watching the survey results. If you haven't yet responded, please fill out a survey and tell us what screen and features you would like in your next ThinkPad.

Thanks again!
-Frank

 

379 people have returned surveys as of this morning, July 10.

The survey has Lenovo's attention. They are particularly interested in how many people respond. If you haven't yet returned a survey, NOW is an excellent time to do so! Please tell us and Lenovo what features are important to you in a business-class notebook. (Survey link at the top of this thread.)

Also:
The survey results show that 43% of ThinkPad users have also used Dell Latitudes. Because of this cross-over, it would be great if we could reach some Dell users to get their perspectives as well. I briefly posted the survey link in the Dell forum, but got spanked by an admin for spamming. I'm truly sorry about that, I love this site and don't want to irritate NBR readers or admins. We did get a few survey responses from Latitude users while the post was active. It would be great to get more. I haven't found an appropriate place to reach Latitude users, if you know of one could you please post the survey URL there? (Or tell me, and I'll do it.) If you could share the survey URL with colleagues who use business-class Dells (Latitudes, Vostros, Precisions) that would be great!

Thank you again for your help,
-Frank

 

I just filled the suvey but forgot something crucial: MATTE SCREEN OR NO SCREEN AT ALL!

 

Thank you!!!

Not to worry, I'll add it to the results summary.

 

Ouf, thanks!

 

444 people have returned surveys as of this morning, July 17.

Lenovo would like to see 500 surveys before analyzing the results in detail and moving on to the next phase. We are so close! If you haven't yet filled out a survey, PLEASE take few minutes now to fill one out. (Survey link is at the top of this thread.) This is an excellent chance to add your voice to those requesting better screens, and other features, in future ThinkPads. Please also share the survey URL with your colleagues and friends who use ThinkPads or other business-class or workstation-class laptops, like Dell Latitudes, Precisions, etc.

For those who have already filled out a survey, THANK YOU!!! Your time and thoughtful comments are MUCH appreciated, and should help Lenovo to produce ThinkPads that we want to buy.

Thanks again!
Frank

 

As of this morning, 614 surveys have been returned, and I believe Frank said he was going to let it run until 7/29. There's a rumor that when responses hit 500 it piqued some interest... Can we get it to 1000?

 

Having a matte screen is a huge plus. Granted my dells glossy is great and all but reflections are quite a pain.

 

Survey ends Wednesday, 7/29 at 06:00 EDT
*** 6 days left to fill out a survey! ***


Update:

Forum members responded so quickly to my 7/17 post that it took only a single day to reach our goal of 500 surveys returned! As of this morning we have 631. A big THANKS to each of you who filled out a survey!

We want to collect as many surveys as possible, because it appears that Lenovo will judge the seriousness of the results at least in part by the raw number of surveys returned.

At the same time, the survey has now been running for 42 days, and we're eager to move on to the next step. Doing so requires Lenovo to analyze the results and decide how they'd like to proceed. They're waiting to do this until the final results are in.

And so we've decided to end the survey on Wednesday, 7/29 at 06:00 EDT. That leaves a little less than a week to fill out a survey if you haven't already!

Please share the survey URL (at top of this thread) with your colleagues and friends who use ThinkPads or other business-class or workstation-class laptops, like Dell Latitudes, Precisions, etc.

Thanks for your help,
-Frank

 

The ThinkPad Survey ends at 6AM EDT tomorrow, July 29.

If you haven't yet filled out a survey, this is your last chance! The survey link is at the top of this thread.

739 people have returned surveys as of this morning.

Results are posted in the Lenovo forum. After the survey ends tomorrow, it will likely take several weeks for Lenovo to analyze the results and decide how they'd like to proceed. I'll keep you posted of significant developments.

THANKS AGAIN for all your help!

-Frank