T400 - a few Qs for sons college computer

Hi all, thanks much for all the info ! I have been looking over the boards and our current plan is to get a T400 for my son for 4 years college away. My daughter has a Z61t for three years so far and it has been good for her. I dont want to waste $ but this is a 4 or more year computer and want to make sure it is not overly limited.

The Lenovo site has what seems to me to be great prices right now so I want to move soon in case of price increase. Current description:

2764CTO (with P8700 and discrete graphics...)
From: $2,202.95
Sale price: $1,663.91
Total savings: $539.04 (seems great discount to me, not clear how long it will last!!?)

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor P8700 (2.53GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2)
>> OR use Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9400?? (2.53GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
>> I read that the T9400 (adds 63$) will use more battery time, I dont know if it is significant or not compared with benefit of T9400??
Operating system: Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium
>> This OS gives free upgrade to Windows 7
Display type: 14.1 WXGA+ TFT, w/ CCFL Backlight, Camera
System graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon 3470 with 256MB
>> This discrete versus integrated seems controversial from some strings - as I understand it discrete is switchable and only comes on when on AC and needed, so should not shorten battery life? Also to consider is heat and fan noise. But it does not cost much more to include and I would hate to limit this laptop as it should last a while. So, use discrete or integrated is the Q??
Total memory: 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
>> Will add another 2 GB stick from Newegg
Pointing device: UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) with Fingerprint Reader
Hard drive: 320 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
>> Decided to go with larger and 7200 installed rather than go Newegg route and self install. This computer will be away from home repair/redos...
Optical device: DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)
Bluetooth: Integrated Bluetooth PAN
Wireless card: Intel WiFi Link 5300 (AGN) with My WiFi Technology
Battery: 9 cell Li-Ion Battery
>> Beefier battery
ThinkPad Bluetooth Laser Mouse

>> Insurance is complicated and there are no definite answers I think.... The college is not in a major city and do not sure how to choose depot versus onsite. And he may do a semester abroad so how does that effect things? And also, how useful is ThinkPad Protection?? Any thoughts welcome here... I will investigate further with Lenovo as well on some details..
Costs from Lenovo:
4 year onsite 9x5 Next Business Day $296.65 << This is current choice and cost.
4 year depot 9x5 Next Business Day $194.65
4 Year Depot Upgrade with 4 Year
ThinkPad Protection $322.15

A long post, thanks for any feedback!!
Mark

 

That price seems high. I got pretty much the same setup as that but with a P8600 cpu and I paided $850 total. That was 2 weeks ago when they were offering employee discount price. You should see if that's still going on. It was the CCP program I believe. Do a search on google for lenovo CCP and see where that leads you..

 

If I were you I would go with a "P" series CPU as they are newer and use less power. Unless your son is going to be gaming or do any 3D intensive tasks I would recommend that you choose the Intel X4500MHD as it will produce less heat and prolong battery life and save you some money as well.

The warranty options you chose really seem to be jacking up the cost, maybe you should drop down to 3-year mail in or less, I'm sure that if the laptop lasts at least two years, it will be good to go for another two or so.

 

hey, does this cpp program work for everyone? or it's for special folks only?

 

Great! Thanks for quick replies!

@Falcon: Whoa, excellent! Very nice deal for you ! Unfortunately that link no longer exists it seems. I will search around some more, but with some quick searching didn't find it yet. Do you know how much %-wise less it cost than their listed price?

@usapatriot: My son is not a gamer, really... rarely even watches TV. So in that case likely is overkill for him. I just did not want to limit the computer. And yes, the insurance is very costly - what you say makes sense, if no problems by year 3 from manufacture then it should be good to go and it is quite a bit cheaper to drop back.

Thanks again both!! I hope to order today or very soon anyway!

 

Marku, for discounts you can check http://www.notebookreview.com/coupons/lenovo.asp to get a code which you can enter in check out page to get an additional discount on top of whatever they are claiming you're saving which is just a marketing technique to push the sale . These coupons range from 10% to 15%, sometimes you have to wait until 15% is available. Sometimes they can have a special and throw in 20%, but you will have to wait awhile for that. I would also recommend calling Lenovo directly and try to configure this system with live sales rep. Last week when I was configuring my T400s, sales rep on the phone beat 15% coupon with 20% discount. With warranty - get 3-years; Lenovo warranty is outstanding!!! I also agree with a statement about integrated graphics. Since your son will be going away to school it will extend battery life, and also discourage him to play video games. You just think he is not a gamer, wait till he gets to college

Not sure if any external mouse is necessary. Once you get a hang of it, TrackPoint is more convenient than any mouse or TouchPad. Your son will not have any room for a mouse while taking notes in class anyway.

 

Definitely look for coupon codes. The sale "discount" that you see should really be conisdered the actual base price, IMO. Nobody ever pays "retail." You either get the "sale" price -- or an even better sale price w/ coupon.

If there isn't a 15% off coupon for the T series at the moment, I'd wait until there was one. They happen like clockwork, about once a month.

 

@twister: Cool, thanks! Heh, so it would seem I fell for that old ploy
Thanks for the link - I see a USPLAPTOPS coupon that gives %15 off which I can use. Good through tomorrow.
On the Warrantees - Great to hear that! Lenovo has Depot where you drop laptop off, and Onsite, where they may come repair. Any thoughts on that, which do you use?
And would you (or others?) recommend the warrantee with the ThinkPad Protection where they fix even if you dropped it or spilled on it or etc? Though, hmmm, actually, depends on the person using it I suppose... he does not leave a trail of broken items in his path so likely not needed... perhaps...
True, can always get mouse later if needed. Hmmm, think I never see my daughter using one either...
Thanks again!

 

The current price for that exact computer through CPP (warranty and all) is $1507.80, so you would save $156.11.

 

Can his university service Lenovos? That would limit the usefulness of onsite warranty repair if he can just bring it directly to the university service shop. If they can't, then onsite repair would be worth it - at least in my opinion.

In a perfect world, everyone is organized enough to start projects well before the due date, so a minor obstacle doesn't spell catastrophe. In every university that I've seen, that doesn't really describe how most work gets done. Your son might be an exception, which would be fantastic. I'm just saying there might be some value to potentially reducing downtime via the onsite option

 

Depot should be fine, but since your son going away to college, find out what they have in his school. It seems that Lenovo has a program with a lot of colleges where they offer laptops at discount prices and also have onsite repairs. Can anybody confirm this? I would verify that with his school. Regarding the actual details of the warranty, I always get confused with their web options and prefer to speak with a live rep. They can explain it in more details, put it in writing (email), and you will get an actual name of a person to use as a reference.

 

Some colleges will only repair computers purchased through their program.

 

Yes, Lenovo does that at my school. The prices are still rather high, but they include a 4-year accidental warranty and Microsoft Office. They will also service them on campus at an ITS Response Center. However, if you purchase any other brand of computer, or even another Thinkpad not through the program, you're outta luck in terms of on-campus support.

 

Wow, great questions and comments! (You are much faster than me by the way... )

@chris-m And @Bobxx: The school is UNC Asheville, and I can't find it in the "Education Employee Purchase Program" list from Lenovo's website. I can get Edu "discount" by clicking on a link at their website " Click here if you cannot find your school above to receive academic discounts." They do not have a computer purchase program there unfortunately, though they do have some student purchase discounts (we will get MIcrosoft Office there for example).
Its Sunday so I cant get hold of anyone by phone, but it seems that they maybe don't work on privately owned computers... - from their website I find "ITS, as a matter of policy, does not repair privately-owned equipment." I will call first thing tomorrow.

@chris-m: Heh, yes - a minor obstacle could possibly spell catastrophe, maybe minor but maybe not...! That is a concern of mine as well and why I am considering the onsite option warrantee idea.

@twister: Good idea - I will call, there are a few warrantee questions (eg, what if on Semester abroad?) that they should be able to answer pretty easily I bet.

@Bobxx: Hmmm, seems you are one of "special folks" ? Or, did you find a way for non-special people in to get that price ?

 

hey hi guys how do i order via cpp??

 

Guys, please stop posting CPP codes here otherwise this thread will be closed. As stated in the ThinkPad sticky these codes are available to Lenovo contractors/employees(and their family) only.

 

@Mr Blackadder: Apologies, unintentional digression there

 

I'm attending UNC:CH, so I have a feeling that the computer repair policies are going to be fairly similar.

 

What is your son studying? What will he use this notebook for? Those are all important questions to ask before purchasing a new computer.

As a general guideline though, I'd go with the cheapest "P" processor that's listed (probably the P8400). For the money you'd spend upgrading to the P8700, there's not that significant of a performance increase. As for the Hard Drive, Newegg was selling 500 GB notebook drives for around 80 buck shipped, so again get the cheapest you can configure, and install it yourself.

There's multiple guides on how you can do a clean installation. The old drive can be used as an external/backup drive if you get a hard drive enclosure, and those are pretty cheap.

Does your son play games? The only games I play on my computer are Counterstrike:Source and Starcraft; I'm not a gaming aficionado, but my roommate is, and he brought his notebook AND desktop with him. I've tested CS:S and Half-Life 2 on both the x4500 and the 3470 and the performance increase for the price isn't really justified. Thinkpads just weren't meant for gaming.

While the switchable graphics feature is cool, the 3470 isn't really a powerful graphics card, and you wont really be able to enjoy most of the newer games coming out anyway.

Good choice on the DVD-Burner that will really come in handy for backups or multimedia. There's really no reason to skimp there.

There aren't any bluetooth devices out there (headset, mouse, etc) that I'd really want to use, and if I did, I'd probably get a dongle. I'm not a big fan of wireless mouses, I use a wired Logitech G9 myself (less latency).

I went with the 6 cell battery, and it gives me about 5 hours of battery life (I've undervolted my CPU as well), I didn't really want to spend the extra 60 bucks upgrading to a 9 cell. Didn't seem justified.

As for the WiFi, I've found the Atheros BGN works pretty well. Anywhere on campus I get a pretty decent wireless signal, so I wouldn't really worry about getting the BEST wireless card. Besides Atheros has better support on Linux last time I checked (if he really cares about that stuff).

As for the warranty, just go with the standard one year warranty. Technology depreciates over time, and spending 300 dollars for a four year warranty doesn't really seem prudent.

I ended up getting my Thinkpad for $674 with the features in my sig. I upgraded the memory myself. 5 minute job. My dad works at Intel, and they contract Lenovo to sell them notebooks, so I guess there wasn't a problem for me to use the CPP site.

By the way, it's pretty cool of you to buy a notebook for your son. I had to shell out my own money

 

I'm not sure about UNC Asheville, but UNC Chapel Hill definitely has an agreement with Lenovo ( Carolina Computing Initiative). There machines come with 4 year insurance/warranty and on campus service. For some reason they don't offer the T400, but they do have a very similarly equipped R400 (basically identical, except lacks the discrete GPU and LED options). I would suggest you check with the school as they likely have some kind of arrangement.

 

That's what I said. Hence why 9 out of every 10 people walking around campus have Thinkpads. I can see how the on-campus support would be extremely helpful, especially for people who don't understand or care about computers.

 

Thanks for the comprehensive post ! Well, he is undecided... but most likely nothing too technical that would require heavy lifting power. Will think more on that and may switch back to the P8400 as you suggest.

So, like less than half price is a very good deal! I have done this kind of thing (replaced power supplies, hard drives, memory, etc) in the past. However, my son will not be within easy driving distance and I was a bit hesitant about making modifications that may cause problem - for example, he is working on a "just-in-time" project and then *crisis*there is some repair work needed due to the home replacement - probably not founded in any fact... Will rethink that as well.

Thanks, yes, this is where I am leaning now as well, ie, away from discrete graphics.

Heh, well, I am not using bluetooth my self, but I do like my wireless mouse for convenience. That said, as someone else pointed out it is not that likely he would need or use a mouse anyway... Will check utility of bluetooth options, but anyone else have some bluetooth uses that should be considered?

5 hours is a good chunk of time, not sure about how to undervolt... And you get a bit less weight too... hmmm...

Linux isn't likely to happen, but I am wondering about wireless signal strength. Does your campus have strong wireless signal? I am thinking UNC-A may not and so maybe can get stronger reception with better card...

Yep, on my list to add more mem! Thanks again for comprehensive reply!

 

Thanks, great points you and BobXX - I should have mentioned I am actually familiar with that UNC-CH program, and yep, that would be ideal! ..but we asked when we were at UNC-A last week for some school orientation, and more than one person including at the computer counter said they don't have that kind of thing in place. Will check again with the ITS people and hope they do, but I am afraid that wont change...

 

Being a university student myself (and working at tech support), I can attest that freshmen know nothing about what they want in a notebook. They always want the best specs, hoping to future proof their investment for four years, or that maybe down the road they'll probably need the extra oomph from a dedicated card. It usually isn't until very late in the first year do they realize the what they really want, and obviously, it's a bit too late since they've already bought their heavy, power hungry notebook.

For a mobile student who is planning to carry their notebook to campus everyday, I highly emphasize four points.

Battery Life
Battery life is a given. You should have a notebook that will last at least 6 hours of lecture. This is easily doable with a 9-cell battery, however with a bit of optimization (clean installation of Vista) it can also be done on a 6-cell, thus saving weight and a bit of cash in the process.

Weight
IMO, the T400 borders on heavy (especially with a 9-cell battery). I would recommend a lighter notebook such as the T400s or X200, but they are noticeably pricier (lightness comes at a premium). If it were me, I'd have my son carry a 5lbs weight (of course, not as a punishment) as a test to see if he would be comfortable with having it on his lap and in his bag.

Durability/construction quality
This is a given. Stick with the Thinkpad series or other renowned business lines. As far as warranty, I feel that this is not necessary since the basic warranty will cover manufacturer defects that may arise in the first year. unless your son is hugely careless with his things, save the money on upgrades.

Connectivity
Don't skimp on wireless connectivity. Since most campuses these days have wireless networks that stretch all over campus, having a card that can reliably catch these signals without issues is a huge plus for a mobile student. One of the frequent complaints that come to my desk is that their WIFI card cannot connect to our network. It's not the network to blame, but their dodgy WIFI cards and drivers that are usually the source of the issue.

I would also recommend getting bluetooth. It's fairly useful when paired with a mouse, smartphone, even headphones. Just remember that it does consume battery life when on (it's very easy to disable when not in use).

With this said, power should be a complete afterthought. Unless your son does work in CAD or 3D applications, a integrated card like the X4500HD should be perfectly capable to perform any task. In fact, I recommend the X4500HD as it is much more stable than Radeon drivers when connecting the notebook to an external display for presentations.



[EDIT]
Also, I highly emphasize setting up a backup routine for important documents and files (another frequent issue for students that come to see me). I believe the T400 has a flush SD card reader. Pop in a 8 GB SD card (prices range around $10-20) and install Syncback free to schedule daily backups. Thus, if in case the notebook is not working for any reason, he can easily take the SD card and use it on campus computers without having to wait for tech support to migrate data.

 

Marku, your hard drive concern is pretty unfounded, lol. Just wanted to put that out there.

 

Thanks much, all of this discussion has been extremely helpful! Though my head feels a bit full

Thanks, I will consider and investigate this 6-cell option - and I can also investigate undervolting per Th1nkpad's comment.

Hmmm, I have just taken a look at the T400S as well, about 1 lb lighter than the T400! Comes at initial configuration as XP OS, and more limits on HD, those SSDs are nice, though $$ and seem a bit small, etc... OK, will require more time before I get clear on its optimal config though... Price is important, but this Tnnn should last a good while so I could go that route if it makes sense.

I agree, more than 5 lbs would be needed for punishment .

Noted, thanks for adding to connectivity/bluetooth discussion!

Deleted majority of the edit - excellent point, and idea!

Heh, I was thinking that was likely the case Th1nkpad... will investigate further installing own HD option

 

My t400 (specs in sig) gets ~10 hours battery life, games, and does all the work and schooling I need it to easily all for $1200 to my door. Definitely recommend the p series and 9 cell. Also would definitely recommend the wxga+ screen as it is perfect for the size.

 

I'm going to go against the 6 cell battery idea. I just graduated from college and I have the 6 and 9 cell batteries for my Thinkpad T400. The 6 cell is nice for getting through one class, but if there are multiple classes chained together the 9 cell is where it is at. With the 6 cell I found my self dragging my AC adapter more to classes due to length/inability to be home to recharge my battery. Also, I think I read that you were looking at the CCFL WXGA+ screen, with the 6 cell battery your son will not get 5 hours of battery life. That is only attainable with the LED option.

For the processor, I'd personally go with the P8600. Good combination of price/performance/battery life. You don't want to spend a lot on the processor because in four yours time the minor difference in megahertz isn't going to be the determining factor of making the computer outdated.

For the hard drive, if your worried about something going wrong with the drive by doing your own install, why not use cloning software to clone the original hard drive to the new one. Then you send the original drive with him as a backup that he can pop in and be back up and running (sans files that were on the other...look at the advice above for syncback) again. Everything else looks good. If your kid is staying in the dorms, accidental coverage may be a good idea in case of spills/drops/etc. Four years probably isn't necessary, two minimum and three is probably best in my opinion. May even want to look into renters insurance that protects against thefts. I work Security for a University and it is amazing how many stolen laptop reports I take annually (usually it is because the students leave their dorm rooms open and not locked...someone walks by and sees the computer of the desk and bye bye computer).

All in all, I think a Thinkpad is an excellent choice for a college laptop due to build quality and what not.

 

Thanks both for all your comments! I went back and looked up LED and CCFL (again...) so I get the lower LED power usage idea now . Then, looking at the T400 on Lenovo site currently they have a CCFL WXGA+ and the LED WXGA (non +) option.

I will look further, but this leads to the question is there a LED WXGA+ screen that just isn't showing up right now or is LED always WXGA?

@StealthTH - useful comments below I will use, nice detail on the cloning approach (which I should have known... )

> cloning software to clone the original hard drive to the new one ...etc...
> look at the advice above for syncback (ie, originally from cloud_nine message)
> renters insurance

Still thinking about insurance, will likely make mind up on that after talking to the ITS people at UNC-A tomorrow, and Lenovo insurance rep.
Thanks!!! \O/
:SLEEP:

 

lenovo offers a wxga+ led option, but it hasn't been available in the US for quite some time
when it does show up, it is usually gone within hours
they offer it in other countries but not the US
most likely this is because they are saving their 14.1" LED WXGA+ screens for use in their new T400S
rumors are, however, that the led wxga+ option on the t400 is available through educational ordering, so if your son's new school has a lenovo contract, you might be able to get that option by ordering through the school

 

The topic of ordering an LED WXGA+ screen for the T400 was brought up here just a couple of days ago. It doesn't sound like they are currently available to US buyers.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=384486

 

If it were me, I'd go with the WXGA+ CCFL and sacrifice a bit of battery life (will still be really good with the 9 cell battery). Then again, I prefer the higher resolution screens.

 

Agreed. I can reach 10 hours with the ccfl screen, and to be frank its not that much less bright then the led version.

 

Marku,
Just out of curiosity why isn't your son asking questions about which laptop to buy as he is the one that will be using it?

 

A laptop wont do either game or intensive 3d well, the display is too small, you can't enjoy the game and you don't have real estates to display necessary tools in complex graphic program. Just a point.

So if its for school not "work" or "game" any core 2 duo laptops will do the job.

 

he already said he (the father) is the one purchasing it
it is the father's money, so it is certainly the father's right to ask the questions

 

Hey all, now at home post-work and done eating -

Thanks for more thoughts (quoted or not) and the thread there . At work today was doing some exploring during lunch and somehow got to a page that had the T400 with WXGA+ LED option, but now I can't find it - maybe some Canadian page? At any rate, leaning now towards Pseries, 9cell, bluetooth, and the WXGA+ CCFL after some of the comments here. Unless maybe that WXGA+ LED shows up... Nearly there I think, need to catch up with the ITS people at UNC-A tomorrow and that might be last step.

Heh well, it just happened that way actually - not because he would over buy or anything, more likely to underbuy to save $ I would bet... probably its because I really do enjoy this kind of thing and so have a little more experience tech wise (though not like you peeps ), while he is more creative type and would rather play his jazz guitar for example than do this. Keeping him in the loop on all this though, including your question gmon . Thanks much all, learning some cool stuff! Now off for a bit more investigating!

[EDIT] ps - I came across 2 T400 versions that likely fits needs for the same options, and it is $41 less with Vista Business than Vista Home Premium. I have searched out the differences, and Business doesn't seem that useful for him compared with Home Premium really, but I use XP so have no hands on experience - suggestions on VBusiness versus VHPremium for a student?

 

Get the VHPremium and save the money, the extra features are of no use. Did u check whether the laptop will qualify for free windows 7 upgrade?

If you are ordering through Education, you can opt for DOS and later buy the vista/ windows 7 dirt cheap through university purchase program.

Or

If you are doing the order through regular site, get the cheapest OS and later upgrade to Win 7 ultimate through university purchase program