T400 - if I'm not a gamer, is discrete graphics worthless?

not a huge price difference, but I'd rather have the extra money in my pocket, then be used on something I won't need.

 

for a t400, i would still get it.
not for a t500, though

so just get it, its less than $100 more

 

The answer is, yes, its worthless. Why would you spend money on something you'll never use or even notice? Not mentioned potential added heat/fan noise.

 

I don't think it's worthless.

 

It's worthless IMO, you're paying more but you will end up with a warmer machine overall.

 

It's not worthless at all, discrete card is very useful for HD videos.

Most people have a misconception about discrete video cards are only for gaming, which is not true.

Other 3D rendering applications will need that also.

 

Yes. The integrated graphics chip can play 1080p video just fine and is more than enough for common tasks. For you, discrete graphics would just add cost, generate extra heat, and make your laptop use more power for nothing.

 

will it speed up ripping dvd?

 

No, that's purely a CPU task.

 

Read this and tell us if you still want to save like $60: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4563

 

So no video benefits from a discrete card? I watch a lot of streaming video, including some in HD, and it's killing the processor on my current laptop (which has an old integrated ATI card). I want whatever I could add that will improve streaming video display, which is a pretty taxing process for a machine.

 

Here is a direct quote from the article:

"So why would you go integrated? If you're not planning on gaming or playing high definition content, you don't really need dedicated graphics hardware. Because the GPU is built into the northbridge and using system memory, it adds no chips to the design of the notebook - chips that draw power on their own. While the integrated GPU will use some memory bandwidth, it typically uses such a minute amount that the performance difference in regular tasks between integrated and dedicated graphics is more or less imperceptible. It's only when you start pushing your entire system hard (like doing video conversion and encoding) that a difference makes itself known, and even then it's a very minimal one."

Although I would say that the article is slightly misguided because the new integrated graphics can play high definition content just fine. The X4500 is specifically designed to play 1080p video without problems. And anyways, any of the newer Core 2 Duos can decode HD in software.

 

I guess it really depends on if you want to limit yourself that much.

 

How does it work with the switchable graphics? If we run in "onboard" mode is the discrete card turned off completely?
Ie. will it use the same amount of power, create the same amount of heat compared to the integrated only version?

Also anyone know if the X4500 that comes with the T400 can hardware decode HD material such as H.264 format?
I understand there are different versions of the x4500? X4500 and X4500MHD?
I'm assuming the T400 comes with the 1st version, but anyone think the X4500MHD will be available in the future??

 

With Lenovo's switchable graphics, any time you're on battery power the discrete card is turned off (actually, I'm guessing it's probably on a low power standby mode). When you plug it in the discrete card turns on.

But again, it will generate extra heat and draw more power, and since you don't need it, it's going to waste.

 

Where did you read that? Of course there are video benefits, well for HD stuff.

 

The problem with integrated graphics is that it taxes CPU power and memory. Just order the LED screen option with discrete graphics and that would make a good offset for battery life.

 

Yes, the MHD version is the one that supports HD decoding, and it already comes with the T400: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...0019C7:&smid=0A759CA6FAC74C46BC91C724ECD09BA7

 

Check this out - http://blip.tv/file/1129114

 

I have the intagrated x3100 in my dell and it can run HD video but only on high preformance settings. So the more powerful x4500 will have no problems.

 

I fixed a typo for you.

It's always better to have too much power than too little power, especially with video cards.

You never know when you're gonna need it, the way multimedia advances is quite fast.

 

By the time you order and get the laptop it will be obsolete anyway but for the video it will run fine on any thing less than 1920x1200. But then again dell sells the Studio 17 with a x3100 and 1920x1200 and advertise for multimedia.

Do you (stewie) predict problems with the x4500? What do you know that we (I) dont?

And you forgot the comma before yet.

 

hmmm i wonder if the ones on the Canadian site the same chip??
It just says Intel GMA X4500
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...0019DC:&smid=EA9FF8465DFE45ED847C7CAF8F79F973

 

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not saying the X4500 will have problem itself mechanically or something. I'm just saying the multimedia stuff keeps on requiring more and more power every year, it is never a bad thing to get a more powerful video card. You might be able to watch the video, but look at the CPU usage compared to one with a discrete card.

If battery life is more important to you than graphic power, then yeah don't get a discrete one. If not, I just don't see/understand why someone shouldn't get one.

lol yeah I missed a comma.

 

Heat, fan noise, and battery life for starters.

Conversely, I don't see why someone would get something that is of absolutely no use to them. Gamers aside, 99% of all laptop users will have no use for discrete graphics, and recommending someone get one without having a specific reason is foolish... imho.

 

100% of the reason why I went with intergrated.

 

I already said if battery life is more important to you, then don't get a discrete card.

Heat and fan noise? Maybe you're not sure how discrete video cards work. Not only the CPU, but the GPU also uses something like the SpeedStep (i.e. PowerMizer) technology so the GPU is not running at 100% all the time. And when your GPU steps up to the max, it means that you're doing something that requires its power. As far as heat goes, X3100 users have been reporting quite a high heat also when watching HD videos. In the end, the discrete one is not that much warmer, because you're using less CPU, while your IGP will make the CPU work harder, which also increase the heat.

Gamers aside, 99% of all laptop users will have no use for discrete graphics? Just HD videos alone, I'd say a discrete card is a pretty good investment. And how can you be 100% sure someone might not use something that needs it in the near future?

I think it's even more foolish to limit yourself with power in our super fast pace technology advancement.

 

if the demand was that high, I think you would see discrete options in all laptops, to me, intergrated is not bad at all, and with the new intel, it should be even better.

Just the thought of messing with multiple drivers, having more "parts" that could generate more heat, noise, weight, ect. turns me off about it.

I'm not saying that it's not worth it, im just saying I don't feel like a 14'' laptop is a "gaming" laptop, and the 3470 will quickly be outdated in the gaming world, however I don't feel like a few less % cpu time wile watching a hd movie is worth the upgrade.

so if you cross out gaming all together, the benefit of discrete is...a few less %cpu usage on hd movies and othe "apps"?

and if you look at the effiency, i bet the IGP will outlast (battery life) the discrete playing a hd movie, that should tell you something.

 

I couldn't have said to better. I've had T61p and a Macbook at one point - neither one of these had problems running HD content. However, Macbook CPU was taxed heavily and that in turn drove up the heat. T61p - yes, there was an increase in heat, but nothing compared to what Macbook was reporting (which was very high, with lots of fan noise - I could hear it with my headphones on - I hate fan noise).

Even though I'm a lover of cooler, quieter notebooks - I feel confident that the new Centrino 2s are much cooler and the GPU more powerful. I'm not exactly sure how the switchable graphics is supposed to work (does it turn off the GPU entirely??), but I have no regret paying little bit more and going for the discrete option - I do watch a lot of shows in HD.

Now, the only thing I wished was T400 having a Display Port (maybe a inexpensive docking solution wouldn't be bad).

 

The reason why you don't see discrete video card as option for all laptops is because most laptops are: 1) not really designed to handle HD medias, and 2) to keep the price down.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying IGP is bad, it has its own benefits.

For the CPU %, it's not going to be only a few % difference. Most IGPs, while watching HD movies, the CPU is nearly hitting the peak most of the time. With a lot of GPUs, the CPU usage stays below 50%.

Also, isn't the T400 comes with switchable graphics when you get the discrete model? Basically you have the IGP too. For only $75 more, I think this is a great deal.

Put it this way, I'd rather have something that I might never use than not having something if I ever needed it. I mean it's not like it's an expensive option or anything. If the option was like $500, then yeah I won't suggest you to get it if you won't use it, but now it's like only $75 difference.

Check out the U330 with an HDMI port.

 

From the Lenovo blog when speaking of the advantages of discrete graphics:

 

Even so, it's not like the laptop won't be able to play HD videos. Any of the new Core 2 Duo's can software decode HD video just fine.

 

my 4 year old 3.2ghz P4 can play 720p just fine, i dont see why any new pc couldnt play 1080p these days.

 

Yes it will play. The question is whether or not you want to be do other things while playing HD video.

 

youll regret it if you dont get it (IMO). why not be prepared if you ever need it? resale will be better. excellent posts from the regulars on this topic. i would rather take my gun to a knifefight, just in case.