T400 flexy keyboard replacement

What's the general consensus on how to deal with the T400 keyboard flex issue? Is this something Lenovo will cover under warranty? If so, will they send the replacement keyboard alone or do they want the entire machine back?

Or is it a case of simply buying the best keyboard oneself becasue Lenovo won't help? If so, what's the FRU of the best (NMB?) keyboard?

Mine is flexy on the left side... you can see the darn thing bouncing every time I hit a key.

 

It varies. Sometimes Lenovo will not help you with that issue and claim it is resolved, whereas sometimes they will send you a replacement T61 keyboard. They won't ask for your whole laptop back though.

 

If you're interested I do have an NMB keyboard from the T61 era. Brand new in opened box. It was meant as a backup but I end up never using it. I'm asking for $70 shipped.

 

What's the general consensus on how to deal with the T400 keyboard flex issue?

Call CS and open up a new "case", explain what is wrong with your keyboard

Is this something Lenovo will cover under warranty?

Yes, it is fully covered.

If so, will they send the replacement keyboard alone or do they want the entire machine back?

You have the options of:
A: They send you a new keyboard to install on your own in 1-2 business days.
B: They send you a box to send them your entire machine (1-2 days), they install the new keyboard themselves and send it back (4-7 days). All shipping is covered.

I just installed my new one last week, I had a bad keyboard as well. The customer service really impressed me. Not once did they question my problem, they were very understandable and I called the Atlanta, GA office on a Friday around 5:30 PM and received the keyboard Monday morning. I was happy overall.

 

I called and had them send out a new keyboard. Unfortunately, they sent another NMB weight saver.

So, I remembered that my T61p that I'd just sold off was in warranty, and requested a new keyboard for that. When it arrived, it was a much better Alps keyboard. I put it in my W500, and sent back the 2 NBM weight savers.

But, if it's your only Thinkpad, I don't know. They didn't seem to understand, or rather were unwilling/unable to replace my keyboard with a different FRU.

 

Hmmm... sounds like I might be better off trying to find a T61 NMB keyboard on ebay. I'll try Lenovo tomorrow just to see what happens. Anyone have the FRU number of the best keyboard to get?

 

Called lenovo in Atlanta and decided to send the machine in to them because on closer inspection the entire keyboard looks warped -- higher in the middle, lower on both sides and rediculously flexy on the left, almost like it's just not fitted correctly. I described this to them and they mentioned something about replacing the bezel (which I guess can get warped).

But then after getting off the phone I took the palm rest, keyboard and bezel off and reinstalled them paying close attention to fitting them as precisely as possible. That fixed the warping, but the keyboard is still too flexy -- not surprising considering the so-called bracing underneath it is as flexy as the keyboard itself and seems kinda pointless. The voids underneath the keyboard where there is no reinforcement correspond exactly to where there's the greatest flex and the keyboard itself, when held on its own, is as bendy as piece of paper.

So I called to cancel the Easyserv box and asked if I could get a T61 keyboard with a stiffer backplate, to which the tech basically said no (he seemed baffled that a T61 part would fit a T400). I guess I'll try again later with the specific FRU part number (42T3143).

 

they were arseholes to me. i even talked to a 'supervisor' and said that they no longer replace the t400 keyboards for free. they said if i wanted one, i could buy it from them.

even after telling them the keyboard is way too flexy, they say "that's just the way it is."

 

I'll state the obvious here. Lenovo handled the situation before by giving out free replacements (I for example received a replacement through the ever helpful Mark@Lenovo through the official Thinkpad forums) while collecting data about what exactly was going on. Yeah a lot of us got T61, or in a couple cases identical T60 era, keyboards. Lenovo took the data and determined that most of the internet chatter wasn't the average "dissatisfied vocal minority"; on the contrary, their new keyboard sucked. It sucked because their was/is not enough support undeneath the keyboard, which the thicker backplate of the T61 keyboards rectifies. Lenovo decided that they wanted to use the weight saver keyboard design with changes so they added internal stuff to prop up the keyboard. It seems the success of this design fix varies wildly. I'm sorry if it's not working for you, but in Lenovo's mind they fixed it. That said, do try to convince Lenovo reps to do something.

I firmly believe that the flex is not the only problem of the the thinner keyboards. When I replaced my original keyboard, I was surprised to discover a massive U-shaped bow apparently similar to what pipspeak. I just went and found the old keyboard. I had stored it in the box the new one came in... to discover it still has the bow If the lighter design is prone to permanent deformation, like my admittedly anecdotal example illustrates, I'd say Lenovo has a bigger problem at hand.

 

Yeah, looks like I'll be buying myself a new keyboard. Lenovo should at least offer a discount on T61 keyboards to all T400 owners $52 + tax + shipping seems excessive.

The "new" keyboard design just sucks IMO. Take it off the machine and you'll find it's amazingly flexible -- it bends and twists every which way like a piece of thin plastic. Moreover, the area it fits over is full of large voids and the "reinforcement" added (which is a joke anyway) misses most of them.

Having taken those pieces off to try to fix the issue I realized the build quality is even more sloppy than I first imagined. Thin plastic parts that are poorly moulded and poorly fitting. Lenovo had seriously better watch out because IMO any more slippage in quality will lose them their reputation and other manufacturers are catching up fast.

 

what is this keyboard flex issue that is so widely discussed? i have a t400 but when i type i don't really notice the keyboard bending. if i want it to bend i have to press one key down near the middle really hard. it definitely isn't how i normally type, and i type pretty hard and fast (100+ wpm).

 

Some people either notice it more or have a flexier keyboard

The entire left side of my keyboard tends to bounce when I type fast, and pressing down moderately hard on, say, the "A" or "S" key you can see the keyboard sink quite noticeably. Whether this actually affects my typing or is purely psychological I dunno Either way, I'd prefer not to notice my keyboard bouncing when I type.

 

So pipspeak and all,
Let me get this correct. Lenovo has stopped replacing the weight saver keyboard with the T6x series keyboard? I thought once this problem was verified, Lenovo is producing all new T400/T500 machines with the T6x keyboards? Or is it that they are refusing to replace the weight saver keyboard on warranty complaints?

 

AFAIK Lenovo is still using the weight-saver design but "fixed" the extreme flexy problem on early machines by adding some bracing between the keyboard and the computer guts. So the weight-saver stays and it also sounds like a "free" replacement T61 keyboard is no longer as easy to get hold of.

I'd be interested if someone could post a pic of what's under their non-flexy keyboard... if my machine does have the reinforcement Lenovo allegedly added to stiffen up the keyboard then it's utterly useless.

 

i think the fact they offered the replacement before was respectable.

you can find the picture youre looking for here:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4946

 

Lenovo offered the program until they released Thinkpads with the added bracing. Indeed, Mar@Lennovo and Tim (the other heavy hitter on the Thinkpad forums) eneded the program back in March. They ran the thing from November until then. It's over so you have to sweet talk to official tech support (I guess). It was a nice program and so far the only guaranteed way to fix the flex...

 

I had flex in my X200s in the top left corner (Esc & F1) and under the middle mouse button. Made noises under those keys. I fixed it by placing thin spongy tape under the affected areas to offer support. I think it was the soft plastic areas under those keys that were being hit each time.

 

I just want to rant a little bit because in the past Thinkpad keyboard didn't flex at all, I'm talking about the old IBM days. My T61 keyboard supposedly better than the weight saver T400 kb sinks in in the left corner, so poorly designed, the kb has no real support on the upper left side, the bezel is a cheapeashly plastic that you could break it off if you dissasembly the machine.

I'm sure this is not the place to be flaming everyone but ever since Lenovo bought Thinkpad the quality of keyboard has diminished greatly, is it to much to ask for them to make a T4x quality style keyboard for new Thinkpads, also to redesign the guts of the machine so that the keyboard is held by more than one freakish screw to tighten into the chassis? C'mon lenovo.

 

Ahh I see. That is too bad. My impressions was they were going to do away with the weight saver keyboard and go with all T61 keyboards for the T4/T5 series.

 

hmm, i pressed the a and s keys down very hard, but i noticed only a slight sinking compared to the right side of the keyboard. good thing i don't see this when i normally type. it would suck if i felt a "bounce"; it would slow down my typing a lot.

if i ever want to replace the keyboard, what is the model of the one that everyone agrees does not bend? wouldn't it overheat the t400 to put in a keyboard that wasn't designed for it?

 

Any of the T61 keyboards (Alps, Chicony, NMB) are supposed to be stiffer. Your question about heating is a good one -- I've always assumed Lenovo made the backplate of the T400 keyboards like Swiss cheese to save weight, but it could also have been to improve air circulation above the mobo.

 

i dont think the holes are there for circulation.

 

I've just purchased a T400 and have been surprised by the keyboard. The whole keyboard seems spongy. In particular the right side. Around the 'P', ‘;’, ‘[‘, ‘]’, ‘?’ etc keys in particular it is very noisy and flimsy feeling. Not sure what to do.

 

first time i have heard that there is a problem with the right side of the keyboard, most people complain about the left side, due to the lack of structural support underneath the keyboard.

 

seems like other than the badge and "think" software TeePees are turning into a tosheeba satillite.

 

I dont get it, my May built t400 only flexes when I put an overly excessive amount of pressure. I mean its scary how much pressure I have o use and the flex is barely noticeable. I dont see how people can think a thin sheet of metal and plastic wouldnt flex under those conditions anyways.

As for real world issues even if I pound on my keyboard angrily still no flex. So Im wondering what everyone is doing to produce this issue, as I just dont see it.