T400 switchable graphics - how does it work?

is the "switchable graphics option" software or hardware based? if i were to format the system and install windows xp (not the downgrade disc bought from lenovo, but a windows xp disc that can be installed on any computer), would i still be able to switch between integrated and dedicated graphics?

also, if you can, please give any details as to how the switchable graphics works.

 

Hello,

please take a look here:

 

great...i have to use vista to get it to work? that's horrible! i don't have the option of xp and linux anymore. i strongly dislike vista for compatibility and other reasons. i guess i better look for a notebook that has decent battery life without switchable graphics then . i was so close to ordering too. good thing i asked.

 

My device manager only shows the ATI card - not both.

 

you will still be able to use switchable graphics, just wont be able to acess it through the OS....you would have to switch between the two in the BIOS upon boot up.

IIRC only Vista (on the PC side) supports this option in the OS. so regardless of the laptop you get, you will need vista.

 

I think that's less a problem of the operating systems, but a problem of the drivers.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft has a deal with the graphic chip vendors to keep that feature for their latest OS to create a need what people wouldn't have without this artificial limitation. Wouldn't be the first time.

So no, it's not only Vista that can use the feature, it's also the drivers that make the feature only available on Vista.

 

if what you say is true, then i'm avoiding the switchable graphics feature altogether by avoiding the t400. i see no point in paying extra for a feature that i don't want. nor am i wililng to use vista. i'm sticking to linux or xp, which i already own an extra copy of. i noticed a sony notebook with this switchable graphics feature also. it's actually a hardware switch, but from what i read, it also will not work in any other OS other than vista. so until they get this little issue worked out, i'm staying well away from switchable graphics. i'm glad i asked about it. i guess i'd be willing to accept less battery life in exchange for having the freedom to use whatever OS i want.

 

I'm sorry, but there is just no logic there. Your avoiding a feature that is completely optional. For one, you don't need to buy a T400 with discreet graphics. If you want a T400 with discreet graphics and use it....YOU CAN! Just go into the bios on startup and select the Discreet option and the computer will boot as if that is the only graphics card. Same goes for that sony, you don't need to avoid it just because your choice of OS doesn't take advantage of the feature. Be glad that progress is being made and the advancement of switchable graphics is huge for notebooks.

I just think that avoiding a computer because of something that is OS specific is dumb. It isn't Lenovo's fault, it isn't Sony's fault.

 

Geez, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You don't pay any extra for hybrid graphics, it's just part of what you get when you get the discrete graphics option. Don't want to use them, then lock it to discrete or integrated in the BIOS and be done with it. If you want to change it in XP or Linux, just shut down, change the BIOS setting, reboot, and you're all set.

I don't have the article at hand, but a little google research should find it if you wish -- in vista the graphics subsystem is more modularized in an effort to limit the ability of the graphics drivers to bring down the system. Side effect is it also allows hot-swapping graphics subsystems; which opened the door to hybrid graphics.

The Vista-hate and Microsoft tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories are pretty funny. My T400 is my first Vista box. It takes a little getting used to, but that's to be expected when you're moving from a seven year old operating system. The differences are easy enough for a bright person to figure out in short order.

 

Yeah, this is ridiculous. I have a T400 with switchable graphics. I run Gentoo Linux on it, and I just changed a BIOS setting so it would always be on discrete mode. No one is forcing you to use switchable graphics.

 

logic? let's get this straight. first you claim that i'm avoiding a feature. then you say that i'm avoiding a computer. there is no logical consistency right there already. i was quite specific in my post when i said i was avoiding the feature by avoiding the computer itself. there is no contradiction here.

now, as for the "paying extra", what i meant was not paying extra to add the feature onto this computer, but by choosing this particular one in the first place. if you believe i did not make this obvious, at the very least, such antagonism was unnecessary. by accusing me of such ignorance, you place upon yourself the burden of proof. there are, after all, other computers with similar configurations that cost less.

of course i'm glad that progress is being made, and that switchable graphics are now possible. however, technology is often a double edged sword, and we as users have the option to choose whether to partake based on the potential drawbacks of said technology. this is very clearly a straw man attack. to say that i am avoiding switchable graphics now does not exclude the possibility that i hope for improved compatibility in the future. painting me as a luddite is hardly correct or justified.

i never claimed that it was either lenovo or sony's fault that switchable graphics doesn't work outside of vista. but, speaking of the lack of logic, i hardly think it's relevant whose fault it is. even if you could conclusively answer this question, knowing whose company a problem is the fault of is not a sufficient OR a necessary condition for you to avoid a computer. for one, there are other reasons you might avoid it, and for another, just knowing it's a particular company's fault might not be enough for someone to avoid it. just keep in mind when you say something is "os specific" that switchable graphics is one of the key features that helps prolong battery life. battery life seems to me to be an aspect of more than just windows vista. surely when you are using another operating system, you still need the battery no less than you would when you use vista?

as for the vista hate and microsoft conspiracy theories, i have no idea where you are getting those; in fact, you seem to know a lot more about them than me. i completely agree that they are unfounded. you are literally putting words in my mouth. in fact, i believe i explicitly said that i did not like vista for compatibility reasons. i suppose it's another conspiracy theory that certain programs are less compatible with vista than they are with XP?

nonetheless, thanks for the information that it is still possible to switch graphics by going into the bios.

 

I would just pick up a T400 with integrated graphics and a beautiful LED screen if the way that feature worked bothered me.

I know I will avoid entire laptop models because of fingerprint readers, but usually only because they will not have an option to purchase that laptop without the fingerprint reader.

In this case, you can simply order the cheaper model.

GL with your laptop choice. Get an LED screen.

 

yea, they unfortunately include many features that are unnecessary or undesirable. i tend to avoid laptop models with integrated webcams and microphones, for example, which doesn't give me a whole lot of choice. still, i might just suck it up and get the t400, even if it means having to reboot and going into the bios for better graphics. awfully inconvenient though, considering i do need to switch frequently

 

I would get the discrete graphics option because the ATI GPU is better than the Intel IGP at hardware decoding of HD movies. Then when you want to save battery, switch to the Intel IGP.

Switchable graphics totally rocks!

 

When you order the T400 just opt for the integrated graphics option. "Your Problem" solved. Myself, I have the discrete graphics option and run Vista and Ubuntu. I made the selection in the bios and havne't switched it since. You sill notice a huge difference in battery life between the two options.

 

if i get the discrete graphics, can i set it to integrated most of the time? so that if i want to switch to discrete graphics, i have to change it manually in the bios, but otherwise it stays on "battery conservation" mode? i will only switch to discrete when it's plugged into an outlet anyways, and if i really need battery life that badly i suppose i'll get the 9 cell.

 

Yes, that's how it is supposed to work. Except for gaming or 3D rendering such as with AutoCAD, you may find the integrated chipset more than adequate for all other tasks. Seems to be a real step up from earlier Intel integrated graphics.

I pretty much leave my T400 on Integrated (under Vista) all the time -- in addition to the battery savings you'll find there's MUCH less heat; less risk of scorching delicate parts when using it in your lap.

 

does it ever overheat when you're using dedicated graphics?

 

It only throws out more heat through the fan. The keyboard and palmrest will remain warm to touch.

 

Of course not. Otherwise they would not have offered it. If it does overheat than it is a factory defect and should be returned for repair or replacement.

 

i dunno, i think while some of the issues against new tech are warranted, i dont really see the double edged sword with hybrid graphics. They use relatively new GPUs, and if u want to ignore the feature, then u can. Its not even obtrusive--to the point where if u dont like an ATI sticker on ur laptop, it wont have one.

I think that hybrid graphics brought about a lot of improvements with battery life, for people who want to use their computers on the go, to do light work, and then when plugged in, to be able to run autocad..

 

Well I am playing around with my new T400 and I am trying to figure out how to use the switchable graphics feature. My understanding is that you use this through the thinkpad power manager app, by clicking on the green battery icon in the lower right corner of the screen.

However, I haven't been able to find any evidence that my system has the switchable graphics.

I am so mystified by this that I went into the BIOS and had to verify that my system has this feature. BIOS confirmed that I have switchable graphics and that it is enabled. I also went into the device manager and confirmed that I have both the "ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3400 Series" and the "Mobile Intel 4 Series Express Chipset Family". Both of those devices are "working properly."

Can anybody shed some light on this issue for me? I thought you were supposed to see a feature in Thinkvantage that allows you to specifically choose between discrete and integrated graphics but I have seen nothing of the kind. Am I just over thinking this, not thinking enough , or is something not right here?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

When you right click on the green battery icon a menu should come up and an option should say switchable graphics...if this is not the case you might need to reinstall the ati drivers or the power manager software

 

Note that with the later versions of Power Manager, I think you have to right-click the battery icon, not left-click.

 

Well that was such a ridiculously obvious solution that, quite frankly, I am ashamed of myself. Right click it is.

Thanks to the both of you!

 

I have just ordered a T400 and am looking forward to good battery life. It would be nice if the graphics could automatically be switched to integrated card when you run the laptop on battery. Anyway, nice informative thread.

Gary

 

I did say RIGHT CLICK in my original post just in my defense...no prob tho

 

Tips for switchable graphics under Windows XP:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-71875

 

You can right click on the desk and choose personalize and monitor settings,then you can see which video card is being used. Or you can run a simple 3D game(tux racer), you can clearly feel the speed difference with different cards.

 

In the notebook world, it is possible that you will actually pay more if you want less feature.

I know it may sound weird. Let's take a concrete example. Like you said you want a computer that does not have a webcam. The problem, is that almost every consumer laptop has an integrate webcam. So if you don't want a webcam, you will restrict yourself to business class laptops that cost more, because they respect higher norms.

For switchable graphic, you don't really save money by choosing a laptop that don't have it if you stay in the same category of laptop. Of course, a Dell Vostro don't have this feature, but you can't compare a T-series Thinkpad to a Vostro: a Thinkpad T is much more sturdy, has a better keyboard. The true competitor of Thinkpad T400 is Dell Latitude E6400 and a E6400 is a little bit more expensive.