T400s officially announced.

Yes. You can configure your t400s with either standard 1.8" HDDs or SSDs.

 

upgrading to SSD costs 40 dollars and buying a 2.5 HDD is around 100?

 

I meant OS optimization (cutting down on all the crap at startup) to shorten boot-up time, not improving performance of SSD. It’s a common sense that even the fastest SSD will have a sluggish boot up time in comparison to 5400rpm drive if your OS start up is not optimized. Thanks for the links; I will definitely check these out.

 

Having been debating between the x200, x301 and t400 for the past month, with nothing feeling quite right, I am very intrigued by the t400s. However, as many have stated here, the drive is potentially a showstopping issue.

Since there's so much variability between SSD drives right now, could someone with one of these machines (ptrn or Kevin?) kindly put us at ease by benchmarking the 1.8" Samsung MLC 128gb SDD directly against a good reference (ideally the x301's Intel MLC X25-M). Good benchmarks would include not just R/W throughput, but also small file R/W IOPS.

I think that would really answer the question of the viability of the 1.8" drive, and the need for putting a X25M in the 2.5" caddy...

I look forward to seeing these numbers somewhere, and thank whoever comes up with them...

 

btw, I just scanned through Tom's HW review of Samsung SSD drive and its not that bad. It puts Intel and latest Samsung at the top of their list where Intel slightly ahead of Samsung. Based on some test results it looks like Samsung's 64GB SSD versions is not that great, while 256GB/128GB is more favorable.

 

Anyone noticed there are only 3 indicator lights at the "Indicator panel"...!!


I have an IBM badged, Lenovo made X41 and it has 8 indicator lights below the screen... Good job on the bigger keys, better track pad...yada yada, but are they doing to the indicator lights???

 

Guys, checkout video review on jkOnTheRun: http://jkontherun.com/?s=t400s

Wow, multi-touch trackpad is AWESOME!!! JK couldn't keep his hands off the machine LOL!!!

 

Very nice! I was hoping it was a synaptics multi-touch trackpad like the one you can get optionally with the X301. Was just about to post a question asking if anyone knew whether it was synaptics or not

 

no, putting a decent ssd in the t400 will cost about $300
the samsung ssd that lenovo offers isn't good, so you'd need to order the t400s with the cheapest drive, buy a good ssd (about $300), and install it, throwing out the drive that the laptop came with

 

Could you kindly link me to a review that benchmarks the 1.8" Sammys? I've seen a few on Tom's using the 2.5" Samsungs, but I'm not sure they're directly comparable.

I believe you about the difference between the 64GB and 128GB versions though. If you have a look at Samsung's tech sheet for the MMCRE28G8MXP ( http://www.samsung.com/global/syste...product/2009/6/11/237587PM800_Spec_200906.pdf ), they publish that the 128GB is 220/200 MBps, vs the 64GB's 220/ 120 MBps and that's just throughput... we really have no idea how IOPS looks. However, seems safe to say the 128GB is more than just the 64GB with more memory chips on it.

 

@wilse: why do you say Samsung 128GB SSD is not good? As it was posted above, go to http://redirectingat.com/?id=525X83...dware.com/reviews/256gb-samsung-ssd,2265.html and read the review and comparison with Intel drive. Those are 2 top rated drives. Intel drive (80GB, around $350) vs Samsung (128GB, $240 upgrade from Lenovo) - over $100 less and higher capacity more than enough justify minor performance difference.

@cturner: I don't have review numbers, but statement that Samsung drive is not good (from Wilse) is clearly misleading!!

 

On the other hands, since I'm not too familiar with HDD performance benchmark, I guess based on that same Tom's HW review you can see a significant difference in I/O ops in comparison to Intel x25 drive.

Anyway, let experts answer these questions since I'm just over excited about the purchase and feel like defending it LOL!!!

 

@twister: I totally agree, this is definitely a machine worth getting excited about. I'm not trying to say the drive is not good, just trying to figure out my purchase, since I can either upgrade to the Samsung for $240, or get the spinning drive and a Intel X25-M for $320 + ~$50 caddy cost.

The drive in Tom's review was a Samsung P22-J series, the drive in the t400s is a newer PM800 series, so it should be at least as good as the drive in the review, I'd guess. The only benchmark I found of the PM800 was here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=658571 . The small file numbers are what make the difference in these drives, since any SSD will kill large sequential transfers. The 4k random write benchmark is not good compared what you'd get from the Intel, but still twice as good as his 500GB Seagate 7200rpm.

I really don't know. Will anxiously await more professional reviews.

 

here's the intel x-25m drive:


and the 256GB version of the samsung PM800 drive in the t400s:


you want to be looking at the numbers for 4k writes - these are the small writes that a boot/app disk will be doing. the samsung drive's performance here is abysmal compared to the intel. with good performance on the larger and sequential reads/writes, the samsung will be a great storage drive. but that small write performance kills it for a boot/app drive, imo.

 

oh, i should mention that the intel drive would need to be their x18m, not their x25m

 

Thanks wilse, that's unfortunately something like what I was expecting. Really too bad, if this shipped with a X25-M (and an IPS screen), it would be the perfect Thinkpad.

Lenovo's configurations are really turning into a nightmare for me - absolutely nothing checks all the boxes. x301 and x200s don't really have acceptable processors, and the x200 doesn't come in WXGA+ anymore. A T400 with an aftermarket X25-M might have worked, but like someone has already pointed out, next to the T400s, it really gets shamed.

I think I'll be buying a T400s anyway, and just biting the bullet to upgrade the drive.

 

Woah, good call. I didn't even know there was a 1.8" version. You may have just solved my problem wisle! I see the 18m for less than $20 more than the 25m. And I'd get to keep the optical drive (whatever that's worth). Thanks for making this easier!

 

@cturner: so what is your game plan for T400s purchase, in terms of hdd equipment? Are you going to get regular HDD and buy Intel x18 SSD to replace it? Is there a link to that Intel drive? Although I placed my order today for 128GB SSD, I can change it tomorrow Since you mentioned it being better than 500GB 7200rpm drive, its good enough for me. But if there is another SSD option, I might entertain it as long as it makes sense in terms of price difference.

 

I found it on buy.com (cheapest I could locate on a quick search) for just under $350. So it's roughly $100 more than getting the 128GB upgrade from Lenovo.

 

Why do you need to search for the intel drive? The 80GB and 160GB SSD option are Intel drives. NO need to purchase it somewhere else

EDIT: My bad, based on a post by someone on the last page, I thought that these options are available. Apparently not on the Lenovo USA website. You can find the drives at newegg.com though.

 

there's no 80 or 160GB SSD option for the t400s at lenovo.com
only 64 or 128, which are the samsung drives
if you want an intel drive, you'd have to buy one elsewhere and install it yourself

 

I based my original post on the post by fs005. I edited my post.

 

I'm going to get a mostly baseline T400s, and put a X18-M in. But, that's just me being a little snobby about the numbers, its probably not really necessary. I'm sure the Samsung 128GB is OK, especially if you consider: it's $100 cheaper, 40GB larger, and still faster than a 7200rpm mechanical.

I have to wipe my new thinkpads anyway to get the thinkvantage stuff off, so I don't mind that it doesn't come preloaded from Lenovo.

 

I see. Most likely I will keep my original config w/128GB SSD from samsung, and get WD Scorpio black (BJKT model w/free-fall sensor, 2.5", 320GB, 7200rpm - $90) for the caddy expansion.

BTW, I config my T400s with XPP and free upgrade to Win7. Although Win7 upgrade promo doesn't start until later this week, it’s based on the date when you receive the system rather than place the order.

 

It seems that Lenovo is at least planning on offering the Intel SSDs with the T400s.

http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/Sh...mon/ssi/rep_ca/5/872/ENUSAG09-0285/index.html

Scroll down to "Planned Availability" and it says that starting in July, they will offer 80 and 160GB SSDs. Also, if you take a look through the TAbook, you'll see that they list those SSDs as options on their current lines. They don't specifically say Intel SSDs, but I can't think of any other 80/160GB options...

 

To give this some perspective, I just ran that same benchmark on my aging T43's Hitachi Travelstar 60GB 7200. Remember the days when this was a good drive? It sure doesn't look it now next to any SSD! Looking forward to my new machine...

Thanks for the tip about 80/160 options in tabook returnzer0, that's promising. I bet that's where fs005 got the idea from too.

 

I just noticed that it seems they're using Toshiba SSDs along side the Samsungs.

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T400s-Notebook-Review/

Anyone have any experience with those models?

 

Are you sure? The Toshibas might be HDD?. Anyway, atm i would wouldn't go with anything else than Samsung or Intel SSDs.

 

Here's the crystal disk mark for my very good 1.8" Samsung SLC SSD.



The small random writes on the new Samsung MLC drive are a bit slower than my old SLC, but they are still at least triple that of a good 2.5" HDD.

The Intel SSD has a very aggressive controller that employs write combining to achieve superb performance on simultaneous small random writes.

It is certainly your right to prefer the Intel x-18M, but I think the new Samsung 128GB MLC drive is a strong contender for the best consumer SSD currently available (the enterprise Intel x-18E is the best SSD bar none, but it is priced to match).

Additionally, Lenovo does stock the Intel x-18M so if you wait a few weeks I think you should be able to configure it with the T400s.

 

That's right ( HMM to be precise). Should have mentioned my source - didn't want to confuse anyone. Sorry for that.

 

Don't shout, please! Kids are sleeping in my time zone now :wink:
The perfect solution would be, in my opinion, to put all the indicators on the panel AND enable a 'night panel' option (like in Saab cars - to allow turning the lights off by a user - with e.g. an Fn-F6 combination).

I have two IBM badged Lenovo made Z6xx machines and X200s with 9 indicators each

 

If you click on that link to the HotHardware review, you'll see that they are reviewing a T400s with a Toshiba SSD clearly shown in the Device Manager. They aren't the only ones that got shipped a unit with a Toshiba SSD either, as a number of the reviews being published online state that their SSD is a Toshiba.

 

you' right, returnzer0.

................................

@all

What does the word "video controller" stand for in the description of the ThinkPad Mini Dock Plus Series 3? thx.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-72873.html

 

I actually forgot that 128GB SSD upgrade is not really $240 but rather $192 due to 20% discount. So considering x18M $347 (the best price I found at Buy.com), its $155 cheaper. Since Lenovo will be offering this drive soon as an option, I'm sure it (x18M) will be much cheaper from them. I mean for 80GB version. No doubt that 160GB will still be expensive... In my case the only thing to worry about now is if they put Toshiba instead of Samsung in there. I sure hope not!!!

 

Unfortunately, the only information I've been able to dredge up about the Toshiba SSDs is a press release: http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_12/pr1801.htm

They're rated for 240/200 with a SATA-II interface but I can't find any benchmarks or reviews of the drive.

 

Your SLC drive doesn't make for a fair comparison against the new MLC drives.

Anandtech did a short comparison of what they consider the three most competitive SSDs on the market: http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3582&p=2
The Corsair model is just a rebadged OEM Samsung MLC SSD and can be considered equivalent to what Lenovo equips their Thinkpads with.

All things considered, it seems the best SSDs overall are the ones based on the Indilinx controller, but they currently don't exist in a 1.8" form factor.

 

i question your conclusion that the best ssd in that article is the ocz vertex
i'd wager that most people would use the ssd in the t400s as a boot/app drive
for a boot/app drive, the intel is the clear best choice because of its superior small writes performance

 

I'd completely agree with you if price was not being considered.

 

I noticed on the lenovo site this morning, the SSD options are now explicitly labeled as Samsung:

 

June tabook confirms the Intel SSD will be available in July.

 

I took a quick look through the T400s pages and it's accessories but couldn't find anything mentioning Intel SSDs or even 80/160GB drives. Sorry for the trouble but would you mind pointing out a page number for me? Must be too early in the morning haha

 

Hava a look at the t400s parts list or the official announcement letter.

 

The Intel SSDs look to be available in July. I am keeping a eye on it as I'm deciding between this and the X200s.

 

I think this option will be available sometime in July (2nd week).

 

Have a look in the current tabook, page 36 (and following). The 80GB SSD is the Intel drive.

 

I just got my T400, why would anyone want a thinner and lighter version when the regular T400 is already thin and light!?!

 

Someone already explained it somewhere in this thread: "because T400s is what T400 should have been when announced" :wink:
I like it: http://www.pc.ibm.com/gallery/tseries.html

 

Yes, seems to be a really nice machine. Maybe a little bit pricy here in europe (starting at 1.900 EUR for the SP9400,4GB,128MB SSD config).

have a closer look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMhIJgwDFls

 

because after using it for a few months you realize that every laptop can always get a bit lighter and thinner.

 

Some users, like myself, carry it around all day so the lighter the better