T410/510: switchable graphics?

Ok, one thread to rule them all. Please post only, if you have hard evidence!

Do the T410 and T510 support switchable graphics?

• Lenovo US website: conflicting (for T410: series overview - yes, comparison table - no, for T510: comparison table - yes)
• Lenovo CAN website: conflicting (for T410: see above, for T510: comparison table - no + "SG" graphics on both during the buying process).
• Matt Kohut: no (blog post).
• Lenovo reps: conflicting (online research).
• Tabook: no (not even the T410s, which is wrong for sure).
• T410 users: no - at least they didn't get it to work (Link, Google-translated).

Is that how you present a good you want to sell?

 

Now that some users already have their T410 notebooks - anyone cares to investigate? I tend to believe Matt Kohut, who said:

What a pity.

 

I am awaiting a T410 with a dedicated GPU this week and I am quite interested in this too!

 

Guys - the support for switchable is all over the specifications PDFs. These things are reviewed by marketing folks AND engineers. The websites are generally put together by a separate team. And Lenovo Matt? He's a marketing/sales guy. He's probably never seen a T510 outside of some PowerPoints.

Calm down. We'll get switchable support.

 

Promise?

 

im sure lenovo has lost thousands in sales while people wait for confirmation or move on to other products (asus UL, macs...)

 

I doubt it's a significant issue to Lenovo, they tend to make only a minority of their profit from consumers.

 

Which PDFs you're talking about?

 

www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/tabook.pdf

 

No, I think he means the service manuals (don't have the links).

Btw: I think the guys in that german thread the OP linked have converged to T410=NO switchable.

 

They are still not too sure.
It has been mentioned it depends on the application.
But the guy also ran the battery-test on HighPerformance, so I don't really trust him.

I speak German, google sometimes swallows some phrases...

 

Yeah but no bios option + no sign of an integrated GPU with lspci under linux? Doesn't look good.

My german is quite good, too.

 

Power Manager changelogs:

As this menu disappeared for T410 users, I'm now pretty sure there's no switchable graphics on the T410 (and likely the T510).

 

Maybe we should be happy we got discrete: http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/25/intel-gma-hd-graphics-review-deems-them-excellent-for-video-med/ (on the desktop side, the power savings aren't big with GMA HD).

We'll have to see what we get once the elite T410/T510's show up with Windows 7.

 

I have been lurking and following the discussions about the T410 and switchable graphics, interested to find out for sure. My T410 elite with dedicated graphics is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. I will update when I receive it.

 

Could it be different for different countries? On the Canadain website there still listing
nVidia SG 256MB, AMT

That said I'm happy to have something other than the intel....

 

Got the T410 with discrete graphics. Here's what comes up with the factory install:


I have power manager 3.11a. Let me update and see what happens.

 

Looks promising

 

Not if post #13 comes into play.

 

Alright, so I just updated Power Manager to 3.12, and the switchable option in the menu went away.

I'm not really too surprised though, especially after reading some other posts.

 

D'oh! That is too bad, I was hoping that switchable graphics was standard. Better battery life...

Edit: Maybe Lenovo figured the GMA HD graphic solution used as much power as the nVidia solution???

 

Don't think so, as the T410s will have switchable graphics.

 

any word on when the t410s will come out?

 

As soon as they figure out how to make the graphics switchable

 

I read somewhere in the forums that people are speculating the release date for the t410s in March? Not sure about this date, but it does sound reasonable.

 

Switchable Graphics disappeared from the Lenovo website:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...-category-id=19C791A03AF24034A0011B825513BCED

 

still there if you click on t410

 

Two questions:

1. Is it possible to force a discrete T410 into Intel GMA HD mode via BIOS?
2. If so, will someone do a basic battery run-down test of the GMA mode versus discrete mode?

 

I believe there's enough evidence at this point that Lenovo has not implemented the integrated graphics feature of the Intel CPU's on the 410/510.

 

well they have, but they might not on the ones with nVidia gfx

 

According to Intel's ARK, the PM55 chipset doesn't support integrated/switchable graphics, despite the CPU having it's own GPU... I assume if the T410s has switchable graphics, it will come out with the HM/QM55 or 57 motherboard.

 

I called sales three times, however, and all of them said there is switchable graphics. I even asked them if it's dynamic (not having to go into bios, disable and reboot) and they said yes.

They are independent sales reps, and that's AFTER I bought the machine. Though, as always, reps may not know the true story.

 

well, people with 410's in hand report no bios or s/w option to switch it.
So, either it doesn't have it, or they messed up big time.

 

I'd prefer 'they messed up big time' if that couples with switchable graphics.

 

Someone will have to call up, speak with tech support and ask to get to Level 3 (or an actual engineer) to have this validated once and for all.

Funny how such a small feature, when so poorly communicated, can be so controversial!

 

Has anybody actually managed to actually see a core i5 with switchable graphics in operation anywhere yet? Remember that even at CES 2010, Intel did not actually exhibit switchable graphics in action. My understanding was that Intel had announced that this feature would not be available initially and it might be a couple of months until Intel and the various OEM's and Nividia and AMD had sorted out all the niggles. So perhaps this is why this feature is in all the marketing literature but has just not been enabled yet.

My advice is if you want an Arrandale based notebook with switchable graphics, wait until you have seen it confirmed to be working in a retail model of the notebook model you are interested in. At the moment there appears to be some confusion and I would not buy into all the promises coming from the reps and marketing literature. See it working with your own eyes first, cos right now, it's a minefield out there.

 

Well, in all fairness, it appears based on the tabook that the dedicated gfx models of the 410 get pretty good battery life (5 hours on a 6 cell, instead of 6.5ish hours with intel only).
Yeah, it's a difference but it's not as bad as the 4 hours my T60 with X1300 gets on a brand new 9-cell. =D

 

I fear that that 410 probably doesn't have switchable graphics. It used to say it had it in the tech specs page on their website, but mention of switchable graphics has been removed from the 410 specs.

Under Compare, it shows that the 410 does not have SG, some models of 510 do, and 410s does.

 

sgogeta4,
one problem with your theory,
in the thinkpads forum, one of the users who own a t410, said his chipset is qm57 which supposed, at least according to the same ARK, to supportboth the switchable option + the AMT (whereas the pm55 doesn't support the AMT).

 

It's more then just chipset however. Lenovo has to actually implement that feature of the chipset and it would appear they have not. If it's simply for software reasons then maybe it'll be enabled later, however if there are hardware components that they haven't implemented then you'll never see it. To this point, everyone that's received a discrete model has had no switchable graphics and Lenovo has released a patch to fix "switchable graphics being erroneously shown as an option." So I feel it's safe to assume it's not supported.

 

Guys, the T410 has a QM57, there's no way Lenovo would ever be able to use the PM55, the firmware size is simply too small for stuff like AMT, vPro, etc.

I've said this before: The people taking sales calls are simply reading off a spreadsheet. They don't have firsthand knowledge. If the info they have is wrong, they will all be wrong.

There's more detailed info than the tabook. Look at the hardware maintenance manual...

 

Well, only the HMM for the T410s lists parts for switchable graphics.

The T510 and T410 each have a dedicated figure showing the motherboard and chip locations for the "switchable graphics" version, but that could just have been a mistake...

 

The T510 has switchable graphics; right click on the battery and it gives you the option.

 

Update your power manager to 3.12 and it should be gone.

 

Good to know! My T510 is arriving next Tues. Guess I can confirm it too by then.

 

You'll be pleased. It is a nice laptop.

 

That's what I hope too. The only concern I have is the weight. I am coming from a 14.1" T43p. I don't know how much it actually weight (it's said to be rated at 5.2 lb, according to Lenovo). The T510 I purchased, Elite with the 9cell is 6lb. I am going to swap out the HDD and put in my Intel SSD - wonder if that helps make it lighter.

Anyway, I suspect the T43 I have now is actually less than 5.2lb - as I saw elsewhere it's like 4.xlb, but not sure. I know 6lb for a 9 cell 15.6"er is not bad in terms of weight...

So, what you do feel about the weight of the laptop? Do you feel strained carrying it around?

 

I have a T500 with a 9-cell, which weighs about 6 and a quarter pounds. It's more the size of it (footprint) than the weight that usually bothers me. It's not too bad to carry around in a good bag or sleeve, but if you are lugging it around all day, you probably will occasionally wish that you had a 14" laptop

The Intel SSD does reduce weight, but you won't notice it. I didn't after I installed mine.

 

It doesn't feel too heavy to me. Granted, it is not as light as a Macbook. I'd say 5-6 lbs with the 9 cell. I wanted something alittle robust for everyday use. You definitely need the 9 cell if you're running the Nvidia chipset though.

 

Aren't the 400 and 500's still having problems with switchable graphics on Windows? Perhaps the new chipset and W7 don't play nice either. Hope it's a driver thing and not a conscious choice on Lenovo's part to not have it. I have to be honest though, the question of switchable graphics on the new Thinkpads is starting to is like the T/W500's Displayport being physically unable to pass audio (because Lenovo's engineers didn't implement it).

And Midnight Sun is right, weight difference for the Intel SSD (or probably any other SSD) is negligible. The silence, lack of heat, and no vibration is much more noticeable though