T410 Noise and Heat

Hi everyone,

Here is the main idea, below is the motivation:

Could everyone with a T410 please report on your idle/load CPU load temps, fan noise associated with each state (idle/load) and your CPU model. Of course I am not expecting a quantitative measurement of noise, just a general idea (perhaps in choices of not noticeable, noticeable but quiet, noticeable, noticeable and annoying? whatever feels right you).

Thanks,
Ryan

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And now for the motivation...

I am on the final leg of my journey of choosing a new notebook. I have narrowed down to two computers, one of which being the T410 (not that it is pertinent to this forum, but for completeness, the other is the Sager NP7652). Basically, my decision ultimately will be decided by the heat and noise of each notebook (I understand that wanting both of these is a bit of a contradiction, but I want the best balance of the two).

There have been a few comments that the fans of the T410 are constantly on even while idling. See for example
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5786299&highlight=fan#post5786299
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5795021&highlight=fan#post5795021
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5794216&highlight=fan#post5794216

I think this issue is important enough to warrant its own thread, as I believe this will heavily influence the decision of many people, including myself. While clearly this issue has been commented on, I would like to see everything condensed to one thread, to make it more convenient for everyone in search of this information.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

Thanks for your reply. While you may be satisfied with the CPU getting to 60 before the fans kick in, this is not some silver bullet solution. Indeed, I actually want my CPU to remain cool. I appreciate that you offered a solution, but this is really irrelevant to my desire for information regarding cpu temps and fan noise. The only way in which it helps me is that if anyone actually submits data regarding their notebook, I need to consider that they might have done this.

Again, thank you for your reply, but I am not asking for a way to avoid an issue, I simply want information about the notebooks. If you feel the need to reply in defense of yourself, please suppress that urge. I just want information, not an argument.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

Hardly. Mobile CPUs should run slightly cooler than desktop CPUs, in general, for obvious reasons. Typically, I'd say idling in the 40s and below is okay, with the temperatures peaking at around 60. If your CPU constantly goes over around 60-65 degrees, I would be pretty worried.

That's highly dependent on what program you use to measure temperature and what your ambient temperature is, though.

 

Well, I don't know if I'd say they're cooler. My desktop CPU hits 40C on load, but this is due to far superior cooling. Idling should be around 40C and load should be around 60C or so. However, constantly being around 60C is not good. I am glad you have your opinions AritificialSweetener, but they differ greatly from mine. Like I said, please don't argue this, I just want information about the notebooks.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

There is a difference between "can" and "should"

(1) 100C, that's in theory. In practice, the number reported by the sensor is not the true core temperature, but the temperature of the motherboard in an area close to CPU. Thus, is your motherboard report 95C, say bye bye to the CPU.

(2): the maximum temperature supported by Core 2 Duo (and I presume it's similar for Core i5) is at most 70C.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/143/5
Now, I guess that 70C is not the "burn" temperature, but a stability limit (beyond 70C system stability will be affected). Thus, I would say that 60C detected by the motherboard is not a good idea at all.

Furthermore, can you show me your "proof"? I'm rather a skeptic person.

Finally, people here are not all experts of PC hardware. If you know something that people here don't seem to know, it's always great to share your knowledge. However, it's not necessary, I think, to use an aggressive language.

 

"There is no point is discussing this unless you have an education in this field. As I said if you want proof all you have to do is take a few college courses in thermal dynamics and computer engineering. Until you do so you cant just "make up" things because you think that are correct."

I do see a point of discussing it: you want to convince us that you are right. I am not convinced and ask for more explanation. Therefore, it's in our mutual interest that you take some time and explain your argument.

"Secondly you posted max temps of DESKTOP cpus not mobile. That is apples to oranges and completely irrelevant to this discussion."

O RLY? How come? Please develop.

"SIGH.....the point is you will NEVER reach anywhere near max temps if you set tpfan to 60c. Further more thermal dynamic law states that the greater the difference between ambient temps the more difficult it is to reach higher temps which is just common sense. 60c is NOT hot and you can EASILY hold onto anything 60c with your hand."

I don't think that the "hand argument" applies here, since a CPU is clearly not made of cells.
Your appeal to the thermal dynamic law makes no sense here (it might make sense if you add a few more arguments, but alone here it follows from nothing and nothing follows from it).

 

OP: I heard that the fan in T410 is always on! If that is true, I'd rather buy something else!
AS: You can install a software to turn it off when the temperature is below a threshold.
OP: But then my CPU will not be actively cooled when idle! In that case I'd rather buy something else!
Me: ....

 

"Because of high current consumption!"

Ah, here you are, the missing link between 2 arguments.

"Im sorry im not going to sit here teach thermal dynamics and how it relates to semiconductors. It takes multiple semesters at college level courses to learn and understand how this all works. Not only that but some knowledge in Quantum Physics is needed as well which I not going even being to get into here."

Or, you can just dumb it down. I can write 20 pages about the construction of the real numbers, or 2 pages. It's all a matter of rigorousness and of broadness.

Seriously, Artificial, if you are here to share knowledge with people around, then you are welcome.

However, if you are here just to improve you ego, then I think I have no interest to discuss with you anymore.

It's still kinda interesting to ask why did Lenovo configure the fan to be almost always on, if, as Artificial claims, it is not necessary. Some hidden problem that we don't know?

 

ArtSwe, please stop posting in this thread. I told you this ahead of time. Please suppress your urge to try to explain these things. I don't care what matters to you and what you have learned. I simply asked for the cpu temps at idle and load and the fan noise associated. What is so hard to understand about this?

All of your posts are rude and unwelcome. Please stop.

ckx, that is not at all what I said. I simply stated I wanted to find which of the two units I desire have the better balance of temps and noise. I never stated I wanted active cooling at idle. Thanks for telling me what you think I wanted, though.

Please will everyone refrain from adding posts that do not actually pertain to the information of the original post. I was hoping this would be an informative thread, and it has turned into the exact opposite.

Please,

 

When is the only fan of the laptop ever off? I only have a T400, so my CPU is less demanding but even then, i can always feel the slightest movement of air from the fan. Right now, im plugged in and nonintensive, and I can hear my harddrive mainly. That's also b/c the fan exhuast is in a corner and the hard drive is closer to my head. Considering that thinkpads have a two-sided exhaust (takes up the whole corner) instead of a single vent like most laptops, I would trust their ability to handle heat. but idk i only have a t400.

 

The fan window of T410 is much smaller than that of T400.

 

Making the exhausts smaller seems indeed a bit.. well.. sub-optimal. On the other hand, Calpella+i3/i5 should be a bit less power hungry than Montevina. So I'd expect a similar noise/heat level?!

 

1) The new Penryn CPU and presumably later CPU release from Intel, use an internal digital thermal sensor, each core has its own temperature sensor, and there is an additional thermal sensor on the CPU die that measures temperature parameter other than the CPU core temperature.

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/ <--- this software apparently picks up the temperature signal from the thermal sensor from within the CPU.

2) temperature supported by the Core2Duo processor in laptops is not 70 degrees, they can operate within that parameter quite safely. My X61, R61 and T61 can operate at that temperature quite safely and without stability issue, and if you have a high spec T7xxx C2D in the X61, this temperature is quite easily reached during normal usage.

The stability temperature is the Tjmax temp. Desktop Core 2 Duo CPU doesn't have a Tjmax value supplied but laptop does.

The stability temperature in laptop CPU is higher than desktop variants, due to the fact that it is mobile and will need to operate in far more diverse range of environment than what you will expect from, also there is high likelyhood that the laptop heat vent gets blocked by something. In addition, sometimes people do place their laptop in the carry case when it is still running, all of which does not occur frequently with desktop machines.

 

Oh, I see. Thanks.

 

I just did a stability test on my x60 with everest v5.30. The CPU (T2300) temperature reached 80+, and remained in that range for an hour and half before I stopped the test (have to go, so can't wait the test to finish by itself).

 

yes my X60 does reach that temperature if i stress the CPU, and you don't even need to stress the X61 for that long to get to that temperature.

 

Without the ambient temperature, and they do exist, I don't see how such studies are relevent because they have no baseline.
Renee

 

That's a good point, sorry I missed that.

My test was done at 22-23 degrees.

 

i use the X60 and X61 in ambient temperature of 17 to 27 degrees.

 

I have done some thermal stress testing on mobile Pentium M and Core 2 Duo TXXXX CPUs, and they go comfortably up beyond 75 celsius.

However, all of you stress testing your CPUs, keep in mind that you may be reducing the lifetime of your CPUs considerably when keeping them at around 80 degrees for more than mere minutes. I would say a CPU running 80 degrees for an hour has a pretty good shot at killing not only itself but the motherboard 1 to 4 years (there are so many other factors involved) sooner than when running within a "normal" thermal envolope (less than 60 degrees or so.)

P.S. I am sorry I am sort of hijacking this thread. I hope you get your figures here...

 

Your question has been answered in the NotebookCheck T410 review.

Idle noise: 33 dB (quiet)
Load noise: 38 dB (barely audible)
Top side max temp: 40 Celsius
Bottom side max temp: 44 Celsius

No CPU temperature measurements, but the reviewer seems satisfied that the laptop internals do not become too hot even after 12 hours of continuous load.

 

Here are the T400 measurements, just for comparison

 

Can't find any review of the T410 on notebookcheck.com. Are you sure you did not mean to write "T400"? Could you please provide a link to the review you quoted?

 

The link is in this thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=456591