T410 Questions -- Switchable Graphics & Screen (WXGA+)

I've been reading through the various threads but I have a couple of specific questions I haven't been able to find answers to.

(1) T410 and Switchable Graphics -- I'm Canadian, ordering from the Lenovo Canada site and the main "T" Series page where you select between the T400/T410/T410s/T510 lists switchable graphics under the T410. Also, the configuration page for systems with discreet graphics shows the following under "System graphics":

"nVidia SG 256MB, AMT"

Presumably this indicates switchable graphics. It does not say this on the US site. Why this would be included in a purchase from the Canadian site and not from the US site is a mystery to me but I can't think of anything else "SG" would stand for. Either this is a massive PR screw up or the Canadian editions are shipping with the option enabled. Are there any Canadian T410 owners here who can comment on the this? Is there a definitive answer on the switchable graphics issue?

(2) Screen brightness vs contrast vs viewing angles (WXGA+ / 1440x900) -- I need to purchase a machine within the next month and the T410, x201s, HP 8440p & HP 2540p are at the top of my list. It needs to be portable but I'm not a real road warrior so I'm leaning toward the 14" models for the increased power, lower cost, ability to swap in a second hard drive, etc, etc.

However, I am a little concerned about the screens with all of the negative press the refreshed Thinkpads have been getting. I realize that opinions on the screen are subjective but I want to ask specifically about the brightness of the screen. I can live with sub-par contrast or viewing angels that aren't ideal BUT I can't live with a screen that is too dim. Could I get some feedback from users on the brightness of the screen? Does anyone have a nit rating from Lenovo? How about the WXGA+ screen from the x201s...can anyone draw a comparison between it and the screen from the T410?

Conversely, does anyone have any experience or info on the HP screens. I assume I'm not the only person to consider the HPs as a competing option to the new Lenovos...

Thanks for your responses!

 

The T410 definitely does NOT have switchable graphics.
This is a definitive answer.

 

Thanks wilse, do you have a US or Canadian machine? I only ask because the CAD site very clearly indicates switchable graphics. Obviously this could be Lenovo's mistake but if that's the case it's a big mistake.

Also, Optimus is a software solution that required no additional switching hardware. The NVS 3100m is just a G210/310 on a stable business driver platform. If the G210/310 is Optimus capable then the NVS 3100m is as well.

I'm happy for everyone's responses but if we're going to use the word definitive, could we back that with a statement from Lenovo?

 

there is no switchable graphics on the T410, regardless the country. it was a false information by the marketing department. they might have planned that feature, but dropped it.

u have to go for the T410s, if u rly need that feature. besides that the NVS 3100m is very weak. i have the t410 with that dedicated graphics and its only good for light gaming.

my conclusion: either u are better off with the intel graphics, or go for the w510. since i don't make my living with gaming , i stick with the t410.

 

Hmmmm...well, I'm certainly not looking to argue with people who already have the laptop. If it isn't enabled, then it isn't enabled.

I guess my point is that there is no "feature" for to marketing to include beyond the Nvidia graphics card. The tech for on-the-fly switching is integrated into the GPU. I guess it's possible that Nvidia re-spun the die for the NVS3100 to disable the feature but that seems highly unlikely.

My hope is that it is simply a driver issue and not something Lenovo has disabled in the BIOS. I'm particularly concerned about this since the T410s appears to include the feature but has the same card as the T410 (NVS3100). If Lenovo has disabled this on the T410 to drive people to the more expensive T410s... I hate that kind of upsell tactic. It's not like these machines are cheap...

I'm still curious about the Canadian site/version of this machine. Anyone with a Canadian T410 that can confirm? I'm going to try to get a hold of Lenovo Canada to get a firm answer.

phuoc -- Thanks for the feedback on the machine. I'll definitely give that some more thought. I do play some games but I have a Desktop I generally use for that. Still, if the card is that weak then there may not be any real advantage over the integrated Intel graphics outside of HD video acceleration.

 

definitive is definitive
lenovo has stated this multiple times
there is no switchable graphics on the t410 - US, Canada, or otherwise
definitively definitive
no switchable on the t410
period

 

Thanks wilse...I'm still not entirely sure why your stating this makes it definitive. Let me link you to the site I'm talking about. You'll notice it says switchable graphics under the T410.

I'm not trying to be an idiot about this, I'm just trying to get a straight answer before investing in this machine. Can you link me to one of the places that Lenovo has stated that the feature is not included in all T410 models?

 

if you don't like the answer to the question you ask, then just don't bother asking in the first place

http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=406

DEFINITIVELY from the mouth of Lenovo bigwig, Matt Kohout

"Over on our forums and on thinkpads.com, there has been a lot of confusion over the graphics capabilities of our Calpella T Series systems. To be clear, the only 2010 ThinkPad system with switchable graphics capabilities is the ThinkPad T410s. The ThinkPad T410 and T510 and W510 are either integrated graphics only or discrete graphics only. It might be possible to do a hack to allow “cold” switching between the integrated graphics core on the CPU or the discrete graphics chip, but this is not something we’ll support or even say is possible on any given system. There is extra circuitry required to enable switching capability. For 2010, buy a T410s if you want switchable graphics capability from Lenovo."

is that definitive enough for you?

 

As stated, it is a marketing error. The T410 has no switchable graphics, which is confirmed by NBR users. I believe this was also stated in one of Lenovo's blogs.

edit: too late.

 

wilse -- Thank you for the link. You'll have to forgive me for not taking your word on the issue before investing in a $1500 notebook I am also surprised that the Canadian site still lists the card as switchable...clearly if the "global competitiveness analyst" is blogging about the situation it's on someone's radar.

I'm going to try and get an answer from Lenovo Canada. I'll post if I hear anything interesting.

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll start another thread to get feedback on the screen since this ended up focusing on the graphics card.

 

what the heck?
don't you have the answer now?
a lenovo phone monkey isn't going to be able to tell you anything
they are half the reason there was so much confusion in the first place

 

It's a fact that t410 does not have switchable graphics.
period.

 

i have t410 with nvidia. definitely not switchable
does it count as a trustworthy source?

 

Just an update on the situation from a Canadian perspective. Lenovo Canada confirmed for me that the T410 does not come with switchable graphics. Thanks for all the helpful responses .

What I find curious is that the Canadian site still lists the T410 as having switchable graphics, both in the main selection page and the configuration screen. This seems like a pretty colossal screw-up for the marketing department, especially seeing as this is a point of frustration for a lot of people.

What kind of recourse has Lenovo been offering people who order based on the marketing information only to find that the switchable graphics is not present in their new T410?

 

so you "confirmed" what we were telling you all along? surprise, surprise.

recourse? what are you talking about? sure, their website says the t410 may have available switchable graphics, but when you go to order, there is no such option, so it is only possible to order the t410 with integrated or discrete. there's no possibility for a situation where a person orders "switchable" and gets something else.

what would you get recourse compensation for? the mental trauma of thinking that switchable was going to someday be available and learning it isnt?

 

@wilse: It's like buying a car that you expect to have a V6 engine because it is advertised as having one, and then finding out when you get it that it only has a V4. With Lenovo's history of website typos and errors, though, I wouldn't expect any "recourse," though.

 

Sigh...7 minutes? You must hang around the forum waiting for this...I'll just say this once and be done with it. I'm a customer looking to spend $1500 on a new laptop. The Lenovo site says that the Laptop in question comes with a certain feature but I've heard that it might be inaccurate. I post my question to a forum looking to confirm/deny the issue. You respond with the following...

And again...

The bottom line is that is not a helpful response. I'm not looking for your opinion on the matter, I'm looking for some kind of official response to what appears to be conflicting information. This however...

There it is! You see, this is actually useful to a person who is looking to invest a significant amount of money into a product and needs a clear answer. Thank You, +rep, etc. I called Lenovo Canada to ask why their site continues to list the T410 as switchable, which I think is a reasonable question. The rep confirmed the feature is missing but wasn't sure why the site listed it. Fair enough, question answered.

Thank You for the Lenovo link. It was useful information that answered my question.

Just as an aside, the switchable graphics is listed in the configuration option. It's called the "nVidia SG 256MB, AMT". This is a fairly significant feature that would effectively eliminate the battery life difference between integrated and discreet models. Losing an hour or two of battery life because an advertised feature is absent is an issue, don't you think?

 

eh, i don't think it is quite like that - let's take your car example, because i think it is a good one:

chevrolet advertises that a car is available with an I4, V6, or V8 engines
you go to the dealership and they have only the I4 and V6 options available to purchase
at no point does the dealership tell you the V6 you're buying is a V8

where does the website say this two letter combination "SG" means "switchable graphics?" i could be wrong here, but i think this is just an assumption you've made.

i agree with you - i think lenovo's web team needs to communicate better with their sales team, but i don't see any indication they've made any misleading options actually available in the purchasing system. their marketing says the switchable graphics is available, but once you go to order, you don't find a switchable option, so i don't think you can make the claim that "lenovo tricked me! i deserve compensation!"

 

I suppose it's possible that SG means something else but the whole presentation is suspect. Particularly since the T410 will (apparently) not ever be available with switchable graphics, so it's not really an option. Only the T410s will include the feature as per the blog link. I think the car example is right. At least in Canada, Lenovo advertises it as including "Nvidia switchable graphics" but when I order it with the Nvidia card, the feature is missing. Anyway...

I've ordered the T410 with the nvidia card and don't have any expectations regarding switchable graphics. I'm not expecting anything from Lenovo in spite of the misinformation but I'm a little surprised it's still up on the site.

It's too bad, this is a killer feature. All the power of the graphics card when I need it and all the battery life of integrated graphics when I don't. Oh well, next generation...

 

Don't worry switchable graphics from the last generation sucked, maybe that's why it isn't offered again

 

The tandem of my V5700/Radeon 3650 and Intel x4500 have served me quite well. Even when I had to switch it in the BIOS with XP. It wasn't a perfect technology but it was nice enough. I do see why so many people wanted an autoswitch capability. I also have to wonder why Lenovo never got the thing to work properly with Windows 7

I'll be funny and try to add another car analogy. Companies tolerate and indeed thrive on a little consumer confusion. Not bait and switch, but say you'll deliver X capability but do it in a way that might be misleading to some. "4 wheel drive" and "all wheel drive" actually mean two different capabilities.

 

"sucked"? I love it - one of the reasons I chose the W500. (however, for some oddity, the win7 drivers are inferior to the vista equivalents). the real reason for its demise is perhaps that the new Intel integrated gpu is so much better than the old one that most people should be happy with no dedicated gpu - and any reason for a SG.

For those with more demanding gpu needs, the only option now is get the dedicated gpu without SG or wait for SG to come back - or go back to the 500-series.