T410/T410s for Law School Questions

Hey all,

I already have an active thread in the What Notebook Should I Buy For School? forum, but they referred me here for a couple T410-specific questions.

I am looking for a laptop to last me at least three years, through law school, that is portable, durable, and comfortable, for long stretches of case research and memo/outline writing. I'm leaning heavily at this point towards the T410. However, I don't know if I should spring extra for a T410s. It bothers me that I can't locate them anywhere for a little hands-on, but I have found an SL-series Thinkpad at Best Buy and I really love typing on it.

From Lenovo's site, it seems the T400s and T410s only come with 5400 RPM HDDs or SSDs. I'm not really interested in an SSD, as I would rather have more capacity for the same price. I will be backing up often enough (and not hiking the thing too far) that I can't imagine spending that much for more data integrity.

Is it possible to get a 7200RPM drive in the T400s/T410s from Lenovo? What about upgrading with an OEM 7200 RPM drive? Is it worth it? Is it easy? Does it add appreciable heat/noise? Will I get berated into biting the bullet and getting an SSD instead?

And just in general, how much of a difference will I notice between the T400/T400s/T410/T410s? Do any of you Thinkpaddicts have any specific recommendations? Bear in mind I will be lugging this thing to and from law school (only about a five-minute walk) every day, and be using it for little more than case research, note-taking and word processing. I have a powerful desktop at home for gaming and multimedia.

Thanks in advance!

 

i assume you don't need much video performance as a law school student.
if you don't have too much reading/writing on the go, why not consider x201 or x201s + dock station?

compared with T series, the smaller screen size is not good for long-time reading/writing. but you can plug external monitor, mice, keyboard...everything in the dock.

when you do homework/reading at home, put the laptop on the dock station, it's a "desktop". when you leave home for school, just pull the laptop out of the dock, you'll have smaller size, lighter weight, longer battery life.---perfect balance.

 

Well, I went to Best Buy to get some hands-on time, and I really like all the laptops with the 14" screens. They're just the right size. Also, I already have a powerful desktop at home for gaming/multimedia. Chances are I'll use it for studying when I'm at home as well. The laptop would only be for studying/brief-writing in the library, or note-taking in class.

 

I am using a 2.5 5400rpm OEM HDD. It's not the fastest but certainly gets the job done. I'd say go for a T400s if budget is a bit tight.

 

That was my first thought too. Even more importantly, though, you can read cases in portrait mode. Depending on the cases' e-format, you can write notes in the margins too! Reading columnar text in landscape mode is a pain because you have to scroll up and down the page, and the <page up> <page down> buttons move you to the next page, not top/bottom of current page.

If your professors provide the lecture notes in electronic format, you can hand write your e-notes on the formal ones, saving time/expense/space of printing hard copies to take notes. Additionally, you can search e-copies of lectures for key words.

 

The reason the T400s/T410s only have 5400 drives is because they use the smaller (and harder to find) 1.8" drives. You will not be able to walk into most electronics stores and get a drive replacement. Because they're smaller, they also spin slower (but the outer-edge of the drive isn't as far, so it's not as big of a deal), but there is a speed performance impact. If that's important, you might want to consider an SSD, which is still a great upgrade in a 2.5" drive.

 

If you already have a desktop for use when home that is just more reason to get an X series for portability to class and on the go.

But if you really want a 14inch then I also think the t400s or t401s is great if you can afford it with an SSD.

 

If you're only using this laptop on the go, I would highly recommend an X200 or X210...

Otherwise I would say get the T400s/T410s and upgrade to the 80GB Intel SSD. Then, slap a larger HD in the ultrabay if you need more storage. The default HD in these machines is the 1.8" 250GB 5400RPM.. which will be pretty slow.

T400/T410, in my opinion, would be more heavy than what it's worth to bring it to school every day. Especially considering that you have a powerful desktop at home.

 

I'm really stuck on a 14.1" screen. Tonight I got a hold of Dad's Dell Latitude D630, and it felt like the perfect size. I have freakishly large hands, which makes it tough to type on smaller keyboards, and I want everything to be easily legible for looong stretches. As long as it would fit in a backpack, I'm not sweating a couple extra pounds of weight. My casebooks can be up to 10 pounds a piece anyway.

When I'm home, I'll be mainly using my desktop for studying. However, I'll be splitting study time between home and the law school. I have a 2.5" external HDD to back up all my documents to, or I can use something like Mozy or Google Docs. I haven't really thought that far ahead. But docking my laptop for home use isn't a huge concern.

Given that, would you still recommend an X-series?

 

An old generation T400s is only 3.9 pounds. I carrry a 6-pound T61 everyday since I only have a short walk to school as well.

 

The X series has the same keyboard size as the T series so you won't have to worry about that.

If you really like 14" then go for it, the benefits of the X series is the weight. For me it's a laptop that I can throw in my backpack and not even notice it. They also share the same 1280x800 resolution, but I like it much better on the 12.1" screen than I do on my 14" HP laptop.

The small footprint is nice too, fits on those tiny lecture hall desks

 

I would go with T410 with the normal 2.5" hard drive. I am very caution about not popular standard. The benefit you could have it replace very easily if you go any Bestbuy and computer store. The 1.8" is not worth the headache. If you do not need big screen go with x201, with is more portable, and the keyboard is the size.

 

Well, given that you really want a 14" laptop, that leaves you the choice between T400/T400s/T410/T410s.

If you want to save weight and you're only going to use it for serious work (i.e. no gaming) then I would go ahead with the T400s to save some cash. Otherwise you could get the T410s with switchable graphics.

If you're not so concerned about weight, then go ahead with the T400 or T410, depending on how much you want to spend.

But again.. if you're going to get the s series which has the 1.8" drive, the 80GB Intel SSD option is a must... 1.8" mechanical drives are way too slow.


aznguyphan: Agreed.. ever since I switched from my ~6lbs Dell 14" laptop to my X200, I've been bringing my laptop to school every day with no problems. Whereas with the 14" laptop, I would often leave it at home on my desk due to its weight.

 

Or, if you feel like splurging, the X200s has the same full-size keyboard, is even lighter, and has a higher-resolution screen. The X201s will probably be around sometime soon, but I don't believe it's available just yet.

 

I won't be using it for gaming, or anything graphically-intensive at all. Is there any other reason I might want a T410 over a T400?

 

One thing you might consider is that the T400 has ccfl backlit screen vs T410 has led backlit screen. Led backlit screen are brighter, like the SL410.

 

Gotcha. I think my choice is now down to a T410 vs. T410s :/

Just wish I could slip both into a backpack to see and feel the difference.

 

on paper, the size and weight differences between a t410 and t410s don't seem like that much

in practice, they are significantly different - the t410s is much better for "backpack use," imo

if you can afford the t410s, i think the only reason to go for the t410 would be if you need the extra battery life the t410 can afford through extended batteries

 

T410 is also cheaper, which may weigh into some people's purchasing decision.

 

I know it is mention a couple of time before, but the t410s has a 1.8" harddrive. You have a hardtime finding replacement if it decide to crap out on you. Some also claim the t410s quality is better than the t410, however I take it with a grain of salt.

 

The T410s and T400s have the exact same quality, like T61 and T400.....

 

I am also considering purchasing a T410.

I was wondering about the battery sticking out the back. I have seen some reviews where the battery doesn't stick out. If you get a 4-cell does it stick out or is that only on the 6-cell that is sticks out?

Thanks

 

for the t400, the 4-cell did not stick out, but the 6 and 9-cell stuck out
however, with the new t410, only the 9-cell sticks out - the 4 and 6-cell are flush with the new design!

 

I sort of fell into the same predicament with the T410s. I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but I suggest you get the T410s with an SSD and then buy the hard drive bay adapter and stick a 2.5" drive in there (so you'll have both an SSD and a 2.5" drive in the machine at the same time).

The bay adapter converts your CD drive into a hard drive slot (you can hot-swap between the hard drive and your cd drive, should you need to install software). So what you do is plop the CD drive out, mount the 2.5" drive in the adapter, and plop the adapter in.

You can get 2.5" drives in up to 750GB varieties (anything higher than that will be fatter than the standard 9.5mm, and won't fit). The 750GB drives cost around $120. They are 5400rpm, but because they're so high capacity, the drives are incredibly dense and perform almost as good as 7200rpm drives. You can also get a 500GB 7200rpm drive for around $90...and of course, you can go lower.

So basically in this configuration, you'd store your programs and operating system on the SSD, and then media and any other large files in the other 2.5" drive.

I recommend that you do not buy the SSD from Lenovo, and instead, get the 250B 1.8" and keep it as a sort of backup. Samsung drives perform significantly worse than Intel drives and I'm unsure if they support TRIM. Don't buy an Intel drive either from Lenovo, as they will be the G1 iteration, not the G2 (The G2 supports TRIM, the G1 doesn't...if you don't know what that is, Google it. It basically prevents significant slowdown as your drive ages and fills).

So here's what you need, if you do this:

1. A T410s

2. An Intel X18-M, make sure it's the G2 (I suggest getting the 80GB one, as you'll have a massive 2.5" drive for everything else. The drive is just for programs/the OS):
http://www.amazon.com/X18M-80GB-Dri...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1271018921&sr=1-1

3. The Serial Bay Adapter III: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...1FB0B45CBB39F45EB5B2B986E&&hide_menu_area=yes

4. A 2.5" hard drive

This is the exact configuration I'm doing for my college laptop. I haven't been able to try it out yet, as I don't have the computer yet. Also note that you'll probably need a few blank DVD-Rs to make recovery disks with (so you can install Windows on the blank SSD).

In principal, the 2.5" drive is like a classic USB external drive in that it isn't required for your computer to run, etc. It just stores files. The only difference is that it's simply inside the computer.

 

Hm,
Lenovo's stock of G1 has run out, AFAIK I'm the 3rd person in this forum who received a G2. (I placed my order on March 10 and received it on April the 5th)

 

I ordered in March and specifically got the hard drive to avoid getting the G1. Crap, could've saved $100

 

He/she meant the difference between the T410s and T410.

I think that the T400s feels more solid and more expensive to touch than the T400. I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for T410s and T410.

 

@ConcerningOranges

Op wouldn't need the extra drive space if only using the machine for class and library work...

 

Do you actually own the t410s or t400s ???

 

they are the exact same machine, just with different electronic internals
mechanically, they're the same

 

The T410S and T410 utilize considerably different materials in their builds. The T410 S series use a CFRP top, GFRP side walls and a magnesium alloy base. The plain T410 is composed of a ABS plastic top and a CFRP bottom. I do think the S series is of higher build quality with better materials.

 

T400s yes, T410s no, but i have played around with the T410s already, so i know.

 

+1, unless Tabook is full of BS

 

You might want to also consider the difference in battery life. Considering your only options on the T410s are the 6-cell main battery and the optional 3-cell ultrabay battery, it's kind of limiting. (Speaking from experience here - I own a T410s.)

That said, the difference in weight more than makes up for it in my opinion.

 

I second this plan. SSDs are vastly superior if you can afford them (check the SSD effects link in my sig); especially in comparison to 1.8" 5400 RPM drives.

 

well said
of course i'd love it if the the t410s battery had a higher capacity
but for my uses, i'm always starting every day with a fully charged battery (docking station overnight)
and i'm always near an outlet somewhere during the day if necessary
plus, the new slim travel charger i bought really is slim - it is so tiny!
so, i value the portability of the t410s over the battery life of the t410

 

That's a great point regarding the AC adapter. I don't have the slim travel one, but even the standard charger for the T410s is pretty small.

 

ConcerningOranges,

This is a very insightful post. For anyone who's actually replaced the hard drive in a Thinkpad, will using an OEM drive affect my warranty?

 

Ram and hdd are consider user replacable, you will still have your warranty intact

 

no it won't affect the warranty on the rest of the system, just like upgrading other CRU (i.e. rams, etc).

 

I am in my last semester of law school, and bought a T61 at the outset. 14" screen, 5400rpm HDD, etc..

The T61 has served me well, and it is extremely durable (I am typing on it right now). The number of times you open and close your screen, people's bags hitting your screen when they are getting situated, etc will astonish you. But the T61 has held up like a champ.

I write this to you because if I were to do it over again, I would *definitely* have bought an X series computer, or even a netbook. NO DOUBT about it. Carrying around a few casebooks is tiring enough. You want your notebook to be extremely portable. When I carry around my t61, I find myself envious when I see people with X301's and X200's...

Just some advice from someone who has gone through law school 3 years now!

 

Being a student and having carried a T61 around school, I will echo betty's advice on picking up an X-series. Having made the switch from the T61 to an X301 (which I got a great deal on at the outlet brand new) has made a world of difference. I honestly did not think shaving off a couple pounds of weight would be noticeable but it really did after a long day on campus. The slim design also makes it easy to carry larger books around.

There is a premium with the X3xx series, however, unless you can find it at the outlet, used, or on sale somewhere. I just use a home server network to transfer my files to my desktop over wireless so I don't even use a base. Some may point out the processor is outdated, but honestly, this thing is just as snappy as my T61. The SSD also makes a huge difference and I'm using the Samsung 128gb (read: slower than the Intel X18's) that it originally came with.

 

Don't forget you can also use a smaller, lighter power supply with the X-series. There's a good chance you'll need AC if you're in the law library a lot during a 12-hour day. Your total packed weight is the notebook PLUS power supply.

I'm surprised more people have not mentioned tablets. As more and more legal briefs and textbooks get put into electronic format, the tablet becomes even more compelling. Why?

1. You can shift to portrait mode to read.

• The text on a page in portrait mode is close in size to the text in a book!

• Reading columnar text in landscape mode on a notebook is a real pain because you can't use {pg up} & {pg dn} keys to navigate within a page, and full page view is too small to read. That means you have to use the little up/down arrows, and it goes to another page if you go a little too far. Dong that casually for an hour is no big deal. Dealing with it for 6 hours is another story.

2. You can view lecture notes in landscape (typically the format used for a presentation) while writing on the notes in tablet mode. NO printing lecture notes before class.

3. Most people learn better if they write in their books or highlight them because it uses a different part of the brain. A tablet gives one that capability while still in electronic format--no need to print the documents for mark-up. ALL of the marked-up electronic media is available on the hard drive.

4. It's MUCH easier to search electronic documents than hard copy.

5. The X200T/X201T have full-sized keyboards so you sacrifice nothing compared to the X200/X201 or T40_ series.

6. The tablets have better screens. For browsing through a lot a documents, the X201T has a dual-touch option that allows you to use either finger (inc. dual finger gestures like zoom) or a pen.

I just finished an HVAC class where I had to print all the lectures in advance and put them in a binder so I could take notes on them during the lectures. When studying for the final, I had to wade through binders of lecture handouts plus my notes. When I found out how capable tablets are these days, I did the old "palm to the head" trick when I realized how much more difficult I made my life.

Here are some germane threads from the sister Tablet Review site.

Was a tablet a necessity? - Tablet PC Forums, Discussion and Support

Thinking of buying a tablet for school... - Tablet PC Forums, Discussion and Support

Reading on a Tablet PC (Students especially) - Tablet PC Forums, Discussion and Support (benchmarks against Kindle reader)

 

I'll second the tablet as well. There's nothing quite like scanning a 500+ page book, reader, etc. into a PDF and having it all in one tablet. This makes my total carry weight 5-8 lbs. while my friends often carry 20+ pounds of books, computers, and the like with them.

You do pay a price premium for a tablet, but it's definitely worth it in my opinion. Especially if you can use it to minimize the amount of paper and books you need to lug around with you.

 

Isn't that a lot of work?

 

Not with a double sided scanner that can load 50+ sheets at a time. It's pretty much load it up and walk away.

Books are a bit more troublesome (and I don't normally do them) because you either have to cut off the binding or scan it one page at a time (quite tedious).

 

those double sided scanner usually costs like 1000 USD +, i have a kodak i40 model. Books you have to use a full colour copier with scanner function (with 35 ppm), that scan to network, but unless you own one, there is little chance that library would let you use the advanced scan function.

 

Fair point. I have access to a double sided scanner, but if you don't it can be an expensive and/or difficult proposition.

 

LOL, not to be off topic but dude, if you liked typing on a lowly SL series, you'll be blown away by real ThinkPads.

 

LOL! Bet I could read a couple of chapters in that time the old-fashioned way. But I like where this is going. I still prefer the tablet over an iPad/notebook combo. If only more academic publishing companies could offer digital copies of their textbooks.