T410 and Linux

Hi.

Does anybody have tried their T410 and Linux?
I am considering this laptop, but I work mostly on Linux.
Does anybody know if there are any problem to be expected?
Wifi? Sound? Anybody has some experience with that model?

I have read that there are some special features (BIOS?) that make Windows 7 run better, will they be a problem in Linux (not to get them working, just preventing Linux from working properly)?

Thanks!

 

While I do not own a T410, I can still comment on a couple of these points.

For WI-FI: Upgrade to the Intel card. Intel typically has great support in Linux, and checking http://intellinuxwireless.org/ the kernel already has built-in support for the 6000 chips.

For sound: Again I think the T410 using an Intel chip for sound, so you should be fine.

If you stick with the Intel graphics, again of course you will be fine. If you use the nVidia graphics, they are supported quite well in Linux, but the only relevant drivers are not open source, if this is important to you.

I don't really know anything about the BIOS changes, but it is probably mostly a marketing gimmick. And if not, you should be able to change these things...in an ideal world.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

Linux has worked really well for me on my W500 and I doubt you'd have any trouble. If there is anything not working out of the box, you can pretty much bank on the fact that it will all be supported by the next kernel release.

 

Is this only true with Quadro GPUs under Linux?

eg. you need the proprietary drivers with a Quadro, but you can use either with GeForce? Do I have that right?

 

You are free to use any of the three drivers (nv, nouveau, blob). Only the blob has different features for Quadro<>GeForce, but I think nothing important for any desktop user/gamer.

(blob=nvidias prop. binary driver)

 

I am using nVidia binary drivers right now and I am pretty happy with them. On the other hand I had really bad experience with both ATI and Intel's cards, so I want to stick to nVidia

Thanks for all the answers I hope T410 will be added to tuxmobil or something like that soon...

 

nVidia drivers in linux are fine. The potential issues is the modem driver and the advanced Intel graphics functions, like blu-ray audio codec output via the DP ports. Of course you'd need a blu-ray player for Linux first, and well know how scared the BD consortium is to license a player on Linux after the whole dvd css incident...

If I had read this sooner, I would have brought a DVD+RW with me on my trip to burn a live copy of Fedora 12 x64. you may have to wait a little bit though: I noticed when I tried to boot a somewhat recent version of a live sysrecuecd the boot process blew up with what seemed to be DMA faults. I'm next to certain the linux kernel is working on it if this is the case--you'll likely see support in the next distro of whatever you use. Some new stuff is turbo boost in conjuction with power save, but turbo boost has been around for a while so I'm sure the kernel supports it, but I haven't tried myself..

 

Well I finally received my T410, and I can comment a bit more.

First, the support for the newer processor is not quite there yet. The kernel seems to report inaccurate speeds. http://code.google.com/p/i7z/ helps with this. I am sure the support will come soon. The turbo boost does work (and I love seeing a notebook chip hit 3.3GHz, it's exciting), but something is not reporting it correctly. The i7z reports it correctly.

True Frequency 3298.31 MHz (Intel specifies largest of below to be running Freq)
Processor :Actual Freq (Mult.) C0% Halt(C1)% C3 % C6 %
Processor 1: 2901.93 (21.82x) 1.35 98.5 0 0
Processor 2: 3298.31 (24.80x) 99.6 0 0 0

(This was just a random grab, it has hit over 3300).

Additionally, lm_sensors is not detecting the thermals properly. All I get is one temp reading (which I am not sure if it is the CPU or the case temp) and one fan reading. It seems to think there are 8 temps, but it reports 0 for most of them...[ryan@HAL9002 ~]$ sensors
acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1: +37.0°C (crit = +100.0°C)

thinkpad-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
fan1: 3570 RPM
temp1: +37.0°C
temp2: +0.0°C
temp3: +0.0°C
temp4: +0.0°C
temp5: +0.0°C
temp6: +0.0°C
temp7: +0.0°C
temp8: +0.0°C



With kernel 2.6.32-8 the wifi (Intel Centrino 6200) works perfectly.

The Intel graphics seem to be accelerating some things. I was able to play 1080p youtube flash videos with no problems whatsoever. Additionally, I haven't really tested the sound a lot, but I haven't run into any errors yet with it.

For some reason is 2.6.32 there is no backlight control. I compiled 2.6.33 and this was fixed. However (and I think this was my fault during compilation, but I haven't had time to recompile and make sure) the wifi stopped working in 2.6.33.

In Windows, my particular configuration seems to use around 9-10W (according to the lenovo utility) idling, however in linux (especially because of the maxed out, uncontrollable LED backlight) it is using 13-17W (according to powertop, which may be innacurate). I am trying to find out what else is causing this, but I suspect it is actually a BIOS issue? I would like to find this out.

The most annoying thing by far has been the suspend to ram. It succeeds without error according to the log files only on the FIRST attempt. On the second attempt, however, it instead goes to the Lenovo Thinkpad (booting) screen. I have no idea why this is the case. Suspend to disk (hibernate) seems to work fine.


Hopefully this has been informative. Other than this, I haven't had any real problems.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

Thanks for the report Ryan. I am waiting for the T410s with switchable graphics, but most of the other stuff should be similar. Which distro are you running? Also, are you able to adjust brightness with a terminal command?

 

Edit: I should also note that in 2.6.32, X works fine for me, but gives the error:

FATAL: Module fbcon not found.

Clearly it is no too fatal? I believe that 2.6.33 did not have this problem.

/edit

I am using Arch Linux.

Unfortunately in 2.6.32, I am not able to adjust the brightness at all. When I boot on A/C (as opposed to battery), and I unplug the cord, the light dims, which I believe is a BIOS setting. Plugging the A/C back in does not increase the light, though. Here is an example of what happens when I try to use xbacklight:

[ryan@HAL9002 ~]$ xbacklight -set 40
No outputs have backlight property

As I said though, in 2.6.33-RC, I was able to adjust the backlight with xbacklight and the function keys (fn + home and fn + end). The only reason I am not using 2.6.33 is because the wifi didn't work and I was too lazy to figure out exactly why (it seemed like it was recognizing it as an ethernet card and not a wi-fi card, but I think this was my fault). Also, in 2.6.33, the suspend/resume still worked once well and then failed the second time.

I have found on thinkwiki that other lenovo computers have had this problem. Specifically, http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problems_with_ACPI_suspend-to-ram the last two entries. Neither of the things they mentioned fixed my problem.

I am glad that someone more competent will be joining the effort! I am not ready to report these problems yet before I find if they can be fixed.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

Hi! Thanks for the comments

Btw, I am an Arch user too

Have you tried things like skype (my current laptop has issues with the sound in Linux, which makes skype useless), and display port? I will need to connect LCD using DVI. I can see there are adapters to do that, but do you know if it works with Linux?
Have you tried SD card slot? Is it detected at all?
Maybe you could post output of lspci and lsusb commands?

EDIT: One more question - I have found, that it is possible to switch Fn/Ctrl buttons - is it just a switch in BIOS and works in linux too, or is it windows-specific feature?

Thanks!

 

I have not used skype, and I would install it to let you know, but I really would like to avoid all of the 32 bit libraries if at all possible. Also, I have no way of testing display port, but I have used the VGA, and it worked fine. Sorry I cannot help here.

The SD slot works perfectly:

[ryan@HAL9002 ~]$ sudo mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /tmp
[ryan@HAL9002 ~]$ ls /tmp
DCIM MISC

Here are the lspci and lsusb outputs:

[ryan@HAL9002 ~]$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor DRAM Controller (rev 02)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset HECI Controller (rev 06)
00:16.3 Serial controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset KT Controller (rev 06)
00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82577LM Gigabit Network Connection (rev 06)
00:1a.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset USB2 Enhanced Host Controller (rev 06)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset High Definition Audio (rev 06)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express Root Port 1 (rev 06)
00:1c.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express Root Port 2 (rev 06)
00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express Root Port 4 (rev 06)
00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express Root Port 5 (rev 06)
00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset USB2 Enhanced Host Controller (rev 06)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge (rev a6)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation Mobile 5 Series Chipset LPC Interface Controller (rev 06)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset 6 port SATA AHCI Controller (rev 06)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset SMBus Controller (rev 06)
00:1f.6 Signal processing controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Thermal Subsystem (rev 06)
03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation WiFi Link 6000 Series (rev 35)
0d:00.0 SD Host controller: Ricoh Co Ltd Device e822 (rev 01)
0d:00.1 System peripheral: Ricoh Co Ltd Device e230 (rev 01)
0d:00.3 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Ricoh Co Ltd Device e832 (rev 01)
ff:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor QuickPath Architecture Generic Non-core Registers (rev 02)
ff:00.1 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor QuickPath Architecture System Address Decoder (rev 02)
ff:02.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor QPI Link 0 (rev 02)
ff:02.1 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor QPI Physical 0 (rev 02)
ff:02.2 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor Reserved (rev 02)
ff:02.3 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor Reserved (rev 02)


[ryan@HAL9002 ~]$ lsusb
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 17ef:480f Lenovo
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0020 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 8087:0020 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
[ryan@HAL9002 ~]$

Regarding the Ctrl and Fn question: Yes it is a BIOS feature and it definitely works. I have enabled it, as I absolutely could not program my brain to use anything but the bottom-left-most key for Ctrl.

Also just some more general information: I put the notebook to sleep (pm-suspend) last night, and it lost quite a bit of battery. Additionally, right now the battery life in Linux just doesn't seem to be coming close to the life in Windows, which is expected a bit, but on my older notebook they were without only a few minutes of each other. We're talking like 1-2 hour difference right now. I cannot tell the exact culprit. I wish I had a way to read the actual amount of power being used in each system (or at least be able to accurately compare them).

I think though that with the next few Kernel updates we will see better support and things will get better.

Ryan

 

Thanks for that facts, I hate having Fn as the first button too.
Anyway, you can test the sound without skype at all.
You could test playback/recording with something like this:
arecord --list-devices
arecord -f cd -D hw:0,0 -d 10 test.wav (for example, and talk to the microphone for 10 seconds)
aplay test.wav

By the way, I have found on ubuntu forum ( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8689698 ), that you can modify the backlight when in console mode: so ctrl+alt+f1, modify the brightness, and back to X. Let me know if it works Maybe the brightness is one of the factors that shorten battery life?

 

By the way, do you use KDE4? If so, have you been able to get desktop effects working (or maybe equivalent in gnome)? I am curious how good is Intel's card in terms of 3D...

 

Well, using arecord and aplay, everything worked. I did need to reduce the Mic volume, but amixer easily controlled this.

I have actually read that thread, but that does not work for me. I think this might be due to different intel drivers being used? I say this, because the LED is maxed out exactly when KMS kicks in (which according to http://www.archlinux.org/news/484/ is mandatory now). Ubuntu might not have updated their drivers yet. Anyway, I am just waiting for the stable 2.6.33, which should take care of this. Also regarding power use here, in Windows (I booted it just to check this actually) there was very little difference in idle consumption based on the brightness of the screen (that is if you can trust the lenovo tool).

Also, I use basically the opposite of KDE... I use dwm, and there is absolutely no chance that I will install KDE or anything that uses comparable desktop effects. From what I understand, though, you can play some games on it and that even the older integrated intel cards were powerful enough for desktop effects. I think you should have no issues.

Rya

 

PowerTop is your friend.

 

I actually mentioned that I used powertop in one of the previous posts. What I meant to say was, I wish I had a way of measuring with the same tool. While they probably don't report completely misleading data, using two tools to measure is just not scientific. Furthermore, what I really, really meant to say was I wish I had a way of physically measuring the power draw, so that code correctness/driver correctness/OS/whatever simply wouldn't come into it. Thank you though for trying to help the cause!

By the way, the 6200 card is great! I am using my landlord's internet (with permission! it is WPA2) and he lives a few apartments over, and I am getting near 1MB/sec with some downloads (specifically while using powerpill to update my system, for Arch user(s) ).

Thanks again,
Ryan

 

Just a quick reply: I recompiled 2.6.33 a bit more carefully and the wifi works fine. I am now using the 2.6.33-RC instead of 2.6.32. Also, I found that adding acpi_backlight=vendor allows me to adjust the backlight with xbacklight. However 2.6.33 actually has support for the Xf86BrightnessUp/Down, which is clearly a bit nicer.

I still have found no solution for the suspend/resume issue or the thermals.

I am still hoping that someone who knows their way around a bit more ends up with a T410 in this forum soon!

Thanks,
Ryan

 

Hi guys, I got my T410 today, seems very nice so far but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get arch to recognise any of my network devices. Could one of you be kind enough to point me in the right direction?

I have arch installed but can only get kernel 2.6.30 and I'm not sure how to update it without the internet. Also, what ucode if any do I need?

Thanks in advance
Tom

 

Hi Tom,

I simply grabbed the kernel and headers (from /var/cache/pacman/pkg/ ) off of another computer and used pacman -U to install them. Also download the iwlwifi-6000-ucode package on another computer and install it in a similar manner. With this you should be able to use your wireless. Once you have the internet you can do a real update, and everything should be good from there.

Ryan

 

Thank you measure, that seems to have done the trick! I ended up going to the repo's manually as for some reason I had 32bit Arch on my X300! Gnome is now compiling!

Thanks again
Tom

 

Well, for whatever reason (i.e. my girlfriend wanted to see if it worked), I have tested skype (which required lib32-qt guhh). I am (un)happy to report it works pretty well. The picture for the video is not what it probably could be, but it is fine. The sound and video simply work, without having to fiddle around with anything.

Ryan

 

Thanks Ryan, it's good to know!

 

Hi guys. I'm thinking about buying T410 but video issues are holding me back. How is 3D accelleration working on Quadro NVS 3100M (with what driver)? Did you try running Compiz on it? What about Intel 5 INT NVIDIA N10M-NS - I don't quite get it is it the integrated Intel HD card?
I will be very grateful for your answer because I'm really really eager to get this machine

 

Hi. I have just received my T410 (finally!).
I have a question - how did you resize Windows partition?
By resizing it, or just repartitioned the drive and installed windows again?
I am not familiar with Lenovo recovery discs (I have created them already from the Q partition) - will it try to repartition the drive, or just install Windows on the partition provided (much smaller than default)?

UPDATE:
Also, is there a particular partition scheme Windows 7 requires? Does it have to use the first primary partition, or could be installed anywhere? (Logical drive?)

 

It is probably better to install Windows 7 first. I haven't used Windows 7 yet, nor done a dual-boot with Windows 7. However, from past experience, Windows likes to take over the MBR and boot up process. It is possible to recover GRUB for boot up and not too difficult, but it is better to just avoid the hassle and install Windows first.

Here are a couple tutorials that should help with the process:

http://lifehacker.com/5403100/dual+boot-windows-7-and-ubuntu-in-perfect-harmony

http://www.brighthub.com/computing/linux/articles/23075.aspx

 

I copied the lenovo partitions onto an external hard drive (just in case), and I shrunk the windows 7 partition down as much as I could (there were some "unmovable" files at 65GB that I could not get around, even with 30-day trials of the "best" windows utilities (perfect disk was the most recommended)). As said before, windows first is the easiest. However, windows second is a good learning experience in how to install grub. I had to do it once and I am glad I have it under my belt.

Has anyone using Arch (or any other linux I guess, but preferably arch) been able to suspend to ram more than once? I have been forced to hibernate, because suspend is failing a second time for me. Other than that, I have my machine nearly perfectly tuned. My power consumption keeps going down somehow (it consumes 11-13 watts with general use now), and I have had my 6-cell battery last around 4 hours of non-intense use. Still this does not match the test I did with windows, but it is more than sufficient for how long I ever need the battery.

Ah and yes, the support from the cpu sensors isn't there yet either...

I'd like to hear how everyone else is doing.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

It's been a while, so I thought I'd give a positive update:

Lenovo is currently working to include a BIOS update which will allow a proper suspend to ram from Linux. It should happen around late April. The fix will (should) address the issue for the T510 and W510 as well.

So if this was deterring anyone...well, now you have no reason.

There are still the issues of support for the thermal sensors and reporting the correct speed of the new core processors. However, I am very happy with the T410's linux compatibility.

Ryah

 

I just tested Kubuntu 10.04 Lucid on my new T410s. Suspend to RAM seems to be working properly. At least, it did the first suspend, I didn't try a subsequent suspend.

 

The first suspend&restore works fine. The problem is with the subsequent ones

 

Yup, you're right. I just tested it. 2nd suspend no workee

 

Thanks guys for the information ... I'm planning on ordering a T410 within the next month or two, and of course will be running Arch Linux. Looks like it's coming together well.

 

Totally usable at this point. All of the issues I have seen so far in Kubuntu / Ubuntu are minor. I'll have the T410s setup as my primary laptop once the Kubuntu stable release is out about 2 weeks from now. Very happy with the new machine.

 

Anybody with the nVIDIA option running Linux? I'd like to hear about the battery life on that ... especially on the 6-cell battery.

 

FWIW, suspend to disk (aka hibernate) should work though.

 

Can you tell us where you got that info from?

My T410s (Fedora 13 beta) also suffers from the hang at 2nd resume problem.

On an unrelated note: The WiFi+WiMAX module does not work in linux yet. The driver is already in the kernel, but Intel has not yet released the firmware. After swapping mine (takes 5 mins to exchange) with a 6200 card, wireless works perfectly.

 

I don't have some inside into Lenovo or anything, but see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/532374 especially comment #56, which is a comment from an Ubuntu developer with regard to the work of a kernel developer. This holds weight in my eyes.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

Hm, I wanted to post it long time ago but I forgot

When I was installing Linux (Arch ), I wanted to have dual boot with Windows 7. Just in case, haven't used it since . I tried different options - removing all partitions, or removing only the C partition and recreating it from Linux and trying to restore using generated discs and option "restore partition C only", but that option would become unavailable as soon as I did something with those partitions under Linux. I ended up restoring the entire drive, removing the recovery partition using Lenovo's utility, and shrinking the C partition using Windows' own disc management. And that was the only way I could get a dual boot and recovery discs working properly (so the option "recover only C partition" is still available). Did anybody have any success with soem other methods?

 

You have to wait for the 1st resume process to complete before initiating the second hibernate, in particular the wireless to resume.

 

Did that, of course. For the record, I was talking about suspend (to ram) and not hibernate (=suspend to disk).

 

Hi.

Has anybody managed to get HDMI audio working with the NVS 3100M card?

 

I'm using this config (t410, nv 3100, 6cell battery) with Arch x86_64, it works about 3 hours (wifi off) on battery - just like with win7.

On the 2.6.33 or newer kernel, you can use a workaround for the suspend problem: In the menu.lst add "acpi_sleep=sci_force_enable" to the kernel line. (source: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/532374)
And if you have problem with the usb after suspend, just remove, and reload the module ehci_hcd

 

Apparently there is a new BIOS 1.18:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-74268
In the notes it says "Fixed an issue where system might not be resumed on non-Windows ACPI OS.".
I haven't tried it yet (out of CDs :/ )

 

Not too bad ... it might be worth it for me to just get the 6-cell then. I think I would find the 9-cell sticking out to be annoying.

If you run Compiz, could you fire up the Compiz Benchmark and see what you get? I wonder how well the Intel does ... I tried running Compiz on this current laptop (Dell Inspiron 1521 with ATI X1200), and it maxes out around 30fps with no windows open. Even just scrolling a webpage drags it down to 10-15fps. :~ Horrid.

 

I'm running KWin, with compositing on. Maybe next week I'll run that compiz benchmark. But I can tell you, now, this nvidia works smoothly out of the box, even vdpau (with mplayer), and it's faster than the 7900GT in my desktop computer.

BTW, someone built a patched ubuntu kernel for the suspend problems, here it is:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/566149/comments/15
d (i didn't try it, becouse I'm using archlinux)

 

I have installed the new BIOS and the suspend problem is gone!

 

Great news. Hopefully, they have the new bios ready for the T410s soon as well.

 

I can also confirm that the new BIOS allows proper suspension.

Unrelated: Recently (only in the last week or so) I have been getting random kernel panics related to the intel wifi card, but they are software related. I suspect it has something to do with using wpa2 or wicd. At least thus far they have only occured while using wicd and wpa2. However I have no idea how to reproduce them as they seem a bit random. I recompiled the kernel and reinstalled everything related, but they persist. Has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks,
Ryan

 

For all T410 users with the old BIOS or T410s users that are still waiting for the update, if you add "acpi_sleep=sci_force_enable" to the kernel command line then suspend/resume works.

 

Well it's been a while, and I thought I would add some information that is not in here yet:

If you kept windows on your notebook (which you probably should for updating bios and other bios related things) you can boot into it and set the battery thresholds now. These thresholds are hardware-implemented, so they work perfectly well in Linux. Linux doesn't really know what is going on though:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/present
1
$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/status
Unknown

I have mine set to start charging at 45% and stop at 95%. At the time of the above code, I was at 61%, with the A/C plugged in and the battery very, very, very slowly discharging. This is apparently supposed to help keep the battery in good condition.

Suspend has been working nearly flawlessly for me. I think only once or twice has it not resumed properly, which is to be expected.

The 6000-ucode was updated and I haven't had a kernel panic since, so perhaps there was a bit of an issue. I have some other ideas as to what it may have been (software issues, perhaps). And still to this date it has only occured while connected to a wpa2 router.

Also, at some point in time (kernel update/bios update, wasn't reallying paying attention) the red light turns on with the mute button and mute/unmute is now implemented by the hardware. Hence while muted, amixer can still report that the speakers are on. Of course software mute still works.

Anyway, just an update to make sure people still know you can use Linux on the T410.

Thanks,
Ryan