T410S User Impressions

T410S Impressions

I haven’t seen that many user reviews on the device, so I decided to write up my aesthetic impressions after one week.

I’ll list the primary criteria that played into my notebook search and how the T410S has stacked up.

Portability: I migrated from a 6.5 pound, 15” laptop so I knew the hassles of lugging around a heavier device. I wanted something under four pounds with decent screen real estate.

T410S: Excellent. The three pound difference is huge, and I usually throw it in my bag with its adapter (and a few random books/accessories), and I feel a significant difference in weight. There’s much less fatigue after carrying the bag around all day. 14” is a great size for me as well.

Looks: I wanted something high end, but not flashy.

T410S: I really like the understated, matte black look of the T410S. The constant, recurring design elements in the ThinkPad series give their laptops a longevity that their competitors will likely never have.

Battery life: Portability and at least half day usage was preferable.

T410S: I get about 3 to 3.5 hours with casual usage (Word and Firefox open).

Speed: I wanted something snappy and reasonably future-proof.

T410S: The biggest difference in speed I’ve noticed is due to the SSD. Windows boots up in around 25 seconds and shuts down in 10. I also love the fingerprint reader; it’s a must have for anyone considering a ThinkPad. Just by swiping my finger I can turn on the computer and get through the logon process. The Firefox extension has given me some trouble however.

Durability: A device that can stand up to reasonable wear and tear.

T410S: Pretty solid build quality and I’ve heard good things about the ThinkPad series. I’m not too tough on it, though I travel with it a lot.

Miscellaneous: The typing experience is pretty good on the “legendary” ThinkPad keyboard. I’ve bumped into the red nub a few times while typing into the ‘B’ key, but I’m sure it’s something I’ll get used to. There are a lot of complaints about screen quality but remember that the reviewers here are not representative of the general population; my screen is more than adequate. It’s clear and brighter than anything else I’ve owned. The ThinkLight is a handy little feature I’ve also used a couple of times. I like the peace of mind that comes with a 3 year warranty + accident coverage. Ultrabay functionality is a plus, and I intend on putting in a 5400rpm 320GB/500GB HDD in there.

Issues:
There’s one issue I have with the T410S: a high pitched whining noise that seems to emit from the top left corner of the keyboard. It persists even when I turn down processor settings to ‘lowest’. I’m going to play around with the computer a little more and see if this is the dealbreaker.

I'd be happy to answer any hands on questions about the notebook.

 

Did you try to disable the CPU power management in BIOS for fixing cpu whining?

 

I did that when I had my 400s, didn't really help much. Helped some, but not much. Then again, how about battery life..if you turn in off?
F-hanes, are you having issues with the whining too?

 

I'm interested in T410s. So when I heard about this issue, really sad.

 

Thanks for the review. I have been following the "whining" problem on the T410 machines. While the machine looks good, I think I will wait till either Lenovo fixes the problem (unlikely in the current generation of machines) or the new iteration of the T series comes up. Though I recently bought a R series machine, I will looking for one for a family member. Of course, if I can get a brand new T400 (which, AFAIK, does not have the whining problem), I'll pick that up instead.

 

Here's an update I posted in another thread: Noise disappears when I disable CPU power management in the BIOS and set the processor speed to low or lowest. I guess it's a tradeoff, though does anyone know how this limits CPU speed specifically?

 

15 seconds? Have you actually timed it a few times?

It takes my T400s 30 seconds. That's the Intel gen 2 1.8" 160GB SSD, P9400, 8GB RAM, Windows 7 x64 and nothing in the BIOS that should slow it down other than maybe Intel-VT.

10 second shutdown no problem here. But it's 12 seconds from power up to get past the Lenovo POST logo and start displaying Win7 stuff. Another 18 seconds to get the OS fully up, display the toolbar, and show an active network.

 

You could try replacing the default "soft dome" with the eraserhead TrackPoint, it's a bit smaller so it should cause you less problems. I put one on my dad's T60 since he doesn't really use the TrackPoint, but always bumps into the soft dome.

That seems about right; my T500 is about the same as your T400s. Part of the difference may be Lenovo's efforts to cut down POST speed? I remember reading about that a while back, perhaps that is present in the Tx10 generation.

 

lineS of flight、you mentioned that you've been following the issues with whining now for some time...does it mean that it is mentioned very often?
I am still trying to find out whether the whining issue is a problem for all the machines or whether same batches have more trouble with it than others.
I am still willing to risk it if there was a chance that I could get a 410s which doesn't whine...or at least no that much.

 

Haha typo, 25 seconds. Thanks for the catch.

 

Aside from this thread, in which you have posted, I have a few friends around where I live currently whose companies have given them the T410 and they too have been whining about the "whining".

I have been following their efforts to get this problem (they claim that some of their co-workers in Singapore also face this problem) through their IT dept., which as far as I can make out at the moment is limited to "whining" and complaining.

 

Does anyone know the percentage of machines this affects? I ask because I don't hear anything from my 410s other than the soft blowing fan.

Am I really lucky or are only 1% (as an example) of machines affected. I don't think I am deaf because I can hear the fan, people talking, the TV is TOO loud when my mother-in-law comes over, etc.

I have not changed any BIOS setting and keep it set on maximum performance.

My impression of the machine is - it is awesome.

 

I think it is really a small number (in the T410 scheme of things) - a batch or two maybe. But the question is how this batch got affected in the first place?

 

Lines of Flight,
I am not sure if you've followed the conversation we've been having here recently but it seems that the problems with whining might not be only true for T410. In fact I've talked to a few people now who got there 410s and had troubles with it - I returned my 400s for the same reason. Now i am really trying hard to figure out how wide-spread this is. Some people, who get their computers, don't notice it at all - doesn't bother them. Others are more sensitive..some computers might have bigger issues with this, others don't. I can't figure out which is which. Basically I need to purchase a 410s for I don't see any alternative on the market that I like (other than x301 . and i have not done it yet because I am worried I might get another of these whining thinkpads.

 

i have a t410s with no whine

 

Wilse,
I just replied to a post of a person who got a new t510 and complained about the exact whining issues. YOu are saying you don't have any. When did you get your computer? What OEM is it? Can you, please, double-check with the whine..it can be heard in quite environments..if it's loud you won't notice it.
Try, e.g., scrolling on web, jumping from window to window and listen to the left corner of your computer whether there's a whine or not?
I'd really help me decide what to do,....if it's just a question of chance --i.e. getting a t410s which doesn't whine I might take the chance. Thanks.

 

Do you have the discrete graphics T410s model? What brightness is your screen set to?

Cheers,

 

Probably you are right. But I can only report what I have been exposed to (via second hand resports) and that is the T410. If the problem extends to other models then that is indeed a worrying sign, I'd say. I supposed I could ask someone I know who works at Lenovo, but I doubt if he would give me a straight answer.

 

I have the integrated graphics model; I usually have the brightness set at 5/15.

For comparison, when plugged in I have it at 8/15, which is a comfortable brightness in a very well lit room.

 

Since the main components on the laptop are the same and the exact same procedure is followed to manufacture them, I don't see how some laptops have the problem and some don't.

The whining problem has been around since C2D came out. My take on this is that some people can't hear it and so they claim their laptops have no noise.

I've got a T410s with the whining noise, if it's plugged and the fan is running I can't hear @@@. Unplug it, set it to passive cooling and the only noise emited is the whinning (SSD disk). It's not loud but its annoying, there are 2 kinds of people:
1) Those who wont care and eventually forget its there.
2) Those who'll concentrate on the noise and eventually go psycho with it

 

"I haven’t seen that many user reviews on the device, so I decided to write up my aesthetic impressions after one week."

Great! That's really nice of you.

I have been waiting for about 4 months for this laptop to appear on the market and then reach my country (Israel) - so I am interested to read about it.

- avi

 

I have a 410s arriving today, supposedly with NVSG graphics card, but I'm more concerned about audio along displayport. Have you tried this functionality out yet?

PS: will update everyone about my switchable graphics experience asap....

 

how do you know this so exactly?
I can imagine a different story: two Lenovo factories manufacturing the same stuff: one in Guangdong in Shenzen, the other one in Hunan.
And while Shenzen is already a rich town and industrially advanced since late 1980s the one in Hunan province (say in Shaoshan where Mao was born ) is just learning how to set up its factory so that it produces more than half-way baked products.
Or imagine any other variation of the story (different production batches, adjustments in the process, different sub. components..etc.). Your logic holds only if you assume that everything is produced in one place and nothing changes during that process until a new line gets out. This is very unlikely!
And while I have none of the concrete information (and probably neither have you) your general logic doesn't seem to be so persuasive as you seem to posit it.

I've lived in China and worked for Siemens....and i know that we were manufacturing stuff down there and some of our joint ventures did way better than others.

That's right: when my roommate vacuums the house I don't hear it either
When you work in a library, I am going psycho..as you say.

And there's a third category: those are are pissed that they buy machines that claim to be superb build (a real business line so to speak) to deal with issues that a cheap 500USD computer won't have.

 

@Christina

It seems you misunderstood my post. What I was trying to say is that the whining noise isn't coming from defective components or bad construction. If that was the case then I'm pretty sure Lenovo would have dealt with it in T410s (as the problem has persisted since T400s). The most likely scenario is that the problem is embedded onto the original designs of "s line. It's not hard to imagine the cost of changing the blueprints at this stage of production.

I agree to your point that this is unacceptable from Lenovo :S, I think they screwed up for a second time with this issue...


p.s. I will follow my logic anytime over other people's perceptions unless they are objective as well.

 

well how do you explain that i have a t410s with zero whine problem then?

 

My T61 has that stepping/buzzing sound as well but only when running on battery, and my battery has lost alot of its charge...only about 20% good

 

CPU whine, every laptop model have it. It all depend on your luck. Blame Intel or AMD who make the processors

 

There is variance in manufacturing that is non-human too...

 

One issue I've had is that I've had to change a lot of features that affect battery life in order to fix certain problems.

For example:
-Setting 'Maximum graphics performance' to eliminate automatic screen dimming / contrast changes
-Disabling 'CPU Power Management' to eliminate the whine

Others affect performance:
-Limiting 'CPU Performance' to Low/Lowest (in concert with disabling power management) to eliminate whine

Overall, I've noticed a 30-45 minute decrease in projected battery life (which would likely be higher, except it's balanced by lower processor performance)

Another thing I've noticed, if anyone can elucidate this for me:

When I'm typing, I notice a rattling sound - however, I'm not sure if its the casing of the laptop or a mechanical component because they sound very similar to hard drive spins/accesses (I have an SSD, but was wondering if perhaps other internal components were making this noise).

 

Yeah, that's why disabling automatic power management isn't an option - it kills your battery life. Really I have not yet seen a way how to effectively eliminate the "whine". Seems that once you have a model with the whine, you got to live with it. Btw. from what I've gathered thus far, one thing is obvious: this is not just a problem of T410s. People who had t400, t410, t400s, and even t510 complained about the same issue.
Something tells me that whoever said it's a question of processors, he might be the closest to the truth...
but then again, why is it, I still can't understand, that some people complain while others don't? E.g. Wilse says he can't here anything.
I can say that my X300 has a little bit of whine but really it's minimal and hardly noticeable -- something like that wouldn't bother me.

 

If it is of any help, I have a R400, which has no discernable (at least to me and my friends and family who I co-opted to listen closely) whine.

 

All electronics have some sort of whine. The major two things are at what frequency (in the range of human hearing) and how sensitive the person's ear is to it. The whine is often associated with power components, usually capacitors and coils. Poor circuit design is probably at fault; electronic resonances in circuits can cause the components to vibrate or ring, and the whining we hear is directly related to that ringing.

 

Hello,

I registered an account specifically to comment on the whine issue. I received a new T410s about two weeks ago. Immediately upon first use I noticed the whine. For me it is very noticeable. Even when I sit in my office with the window open and some other background noise I can clearly hear the whine. It occurs both when on battery or AC power. Adjusting the Maximum CPU Speed or other settings in the power manager application does not affect the whine. The only way I can get the whine to disappear consistently is to disable CPU Power Management and PCI Express Bus Power Management in the BIOS. It also disappears while the power manager splash screen is displayed, but reoccurs as soon as the power manager application is running

Before I did any research on this issue I assumed the laptop was defective and sent it back to Lenovo for repair. They replaced the fan and the issue is still present. I've done more reading since then and it sounds like this CPU whine issue is the piezoelectric noise caused by capacitors/coils. As others have pointed out it can occur with any laptop. Early Apple MacBook Pros suffered the same problem, however Apple then introduced a new mainboard to fix it. So it is fixable, just a matter of Lenovo taking action.

At this point I`m going to open a new support ticket and return the laptop to a local warranty partner. Hopefully I`ll get a chance to speak with the technician and get him to replace the mainboard. The whine is unbearable for me and I would rather not have to use the laptop with power management disabled.

So far this experience has been very disappointing. This is the first ThinkPad I`ve purchased and I was very excited. The laptop is very nice, light, slim, well built, etc. But as they say the devil is in the details. I`ve wasted tons of time researching this issue and sending the laptop back for repair. Spending this much money on a premium laptop I would have expected these kinds of issues to be resolved.

In my opinion, if you have good hearing then I can guarantee that you will notice the whine and it will be very annoying. Had I known this before I would not have purchased a T410s. It is a shame since the laptop is perfect otherwise.

I will post an update after the second repair to see if the issue is resolved by getting the mainboard replaced.

 

First of all, thanks for the post. This is so very disappointing. I'm a former Apple user and was seriously considering a new ThinkPad. Why give up an arm and a leg for these things?

 

To totally eliminate the whine, do you need to disable 'CPU Power Management' as well as limit 'CPU Performance' to Low/Lowest together? Or just disabling 'CPU Power Management' is enough to fix this problem.

 

Need both.

Anyone have input on the keyboard issue?

 

Thanks for this discreption Fdubs. Basically I can only confirm, as i have already done so many time on this forum, your story. I ended up getting my full return back from Lenovo after having done a similar round of send in for repair - getting back from repair - having the same issue - calling again, sending it in....etc. The only difference is, it was T400s!
Now I've been trying to ascertain whether this is a systematic problem or just a problem of a few machines. The more responses we get on this here on the forum, the clearer it becomes that it's a systematic problem. Your computer was manufactured literally a few weeks ago, mine almost 7month ago...the same issue. I was just about to buy a new T410s believing first that this whine issue is not a general problem...a week down the line with a bit of a debate on this here on the forum I've realized I need to look elsewhere for a new computer.

 

I just bought and received a new T400s about a week ago. Thankfully, it is working perfectly so far.

 

Try to go into the "Advanced" section of the Power Manager, and turn off CPU deep sleep. Does it help?

 

Everyone, when you respond to a full length post please don't quote it in its entirety, it makes for unnecessary scrolling .

 

Noise has abated on its own. Thanks, though disabling deep sleep would harm battery life even further.