T410s & T410

By reading the articles, it seems like Lenovo is trying to target T410s to a specific sample of the population with its higher quality built and features.

Why don't they have comparable graphics card such as GT330M on the new Vaio Z? The graphic cards on these Thinkpad seems terrible.

 

Cause less-than-optimal-graphics is a Lenovo trademark?
Renee

 

Power requirements. They can't put a 35W TDP GPU in there, maybe not even 20W.

 

the T410s is aimed at people whom want lightness, thinness and battery life longevity in a standard size format, people using these laptops are not going to play games or do CAD on them. SO option them with really powerful GPU that sucks up the battery juices....... is not exactly a good proposition for this laptop category.

 

And yet they will be offering switchable graphics on the T410s. So why not put in a decent GPU that allows for some gaming/CAD? The main idea of switchable graphics (for me) is to have best of both worlds: good graphics and good battery life. I would at least be interested in such an offering.

 

Just like the X4500 and the ATI 3470 GPU in the T400 with the hybrid graphics card... nothing to really get excited by.

To put in a decent GPU would require more airflow (higher fan rpm) and larger heat sink, to deal with the increased heat output, all of which adds weight and noise to the laptop. Which are something you would not want to happen in the T410s.

 

Wasn't the T410s supposed to have switchable graphics as standard? All I see is integrated.

 

As a matter of fact, check this screen shot. The banner says, "Thin and light like T400s and the same great features, plus faster processors and nVIDIA switchable graphics."

But if you go to configure any of the laptops, all that is available is integrated graphics. Do you think they would give me a discount for false advertising?

 

not quite true. read post 32 and 38 here:
http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox...eed:+lenovoblogs/insidethebox+(Inside+the+Box

heh, he also answered to your question in the same post

"So my big question, having a recent T400s – will I get an upgrade for my BIOS to Ctrl-Fn? How on earth can you fit discrete (switchable?) graphics into that package?!?"

matt koht answered:
"The T400s chassis was designed with support for discrete graphics all along. Since the T410s is the same chassis, voila."

so we'll probably see t410s with discrete graphics... this is quite interesting. if it had at least the power of the old t400 with ati 3470 it would make a really good lightweight notebook.

 

hum.... i never said that the T410s won't have switchable discrete GPU. If you carefully read my comments, i was saying that T410s won't have a powerful discrete GPU in a small package for people to mainly play games and run CAD as a portable workstation (which is what the OP was asking). The discrete GPU used in the T410s would medicore like the ATI 3470 used in the T400, which is not a real big improvement over the Intel X4500MHD.

 

It remains to be seen whether new Sony Z will suffer from major overheating problems or not. I remember that tiny fan+heatsink in current Z that is barely enough even for P8400 and low-end 9300M GS.

 

Sony laptops are all about looks, light weight over practicalness.

 

Having a discrete card in such small package is stupid idea. I cannot understand people who claims dedicated GPU for this nice laptop. Anyway it is technically impossible to have powerful GPU integrated into the tiny laptop, so only compromise solution is possible. In this case integrated card performance could be comparable to the specialized GPU. And what and for what people eagers to have "hot dog" in perfect laptop ? It looks like psychological problem - it has just to be to make me happy

personally I don't appreciate any GPU except integrated solution practically for any laptop. Laptop is mobile computer: durability, weight, battery life and screen quality that is what should care people. I cannot imagine a situation when integrated GPU is not enough ! Even old integrated graphics like x3100 perfectly handle 3D desktop of Linux and Windows Vista advanced graphical features. The same with CPU

Don't spend your life hunting for features

 

some people use them as a mobile game machine, while others whom do alot of CAD and design needs a powerful GPU when they work on road and in places other than an office. But for most people an integrated GPU is indeed more than enough for most of their needs, i can still play some of my CC3 and AOE3 using the X4500 graphics card, even though i can't turn on all the eye candies like i would have with more powerful discrete GPU.

 

usual story about "some" mystic people who needs laptops for CAD/Design Especially t400s, for CAD and Design, even if we forget about "fabulous" 1:90 (don't remember exactly) contrast ratio of the LCD panel the laptop equipped, such sort of arguments sound like kidding. If we start discussing CPU performance we should conclude there are plenty physics who uses laptops for nuclear bombs calculations.

Let's use things properly

 

i use them on odd occasions, and many other people use them ask Erik. They are not mystic people just some people in the minority. Just because you don't find utility for them, doesn't mean they have no utility, you don't represent the whole consumer demographic.

Workstation laptop with high powered GPU have been around for more than 10 years now... they are not just a recent invention.

 

I know the proper word to describe the situation - compromise. Compromise is when everybody is right, no truth

I can hardly name it "laptop", it is a coffin with heating system

 

I think I read about a rumor from thinkpads.com that upcoming T410s configurations with switchable nVIDIA graphics (and Core-i5-540M processor) will only have a 3-in-1 card reader, compared to the integrated-graphics configurations which offer the choice of an ExpressCard34 or a 5-in-1 card reader. Presumably, the addition of discrete nVIDIA graphics take up extra space inside the chassis...?

I'm thinking about getting this 14" T410s with switchable graphics (and touchscreen) for myself, and either the HP TouchSmart tm2 or the (presumably upcoming) ThinkPad X210T 12" convertible tablet for the wife...

 

the new W500 have a switchable graphics card option, so you can switch between the integrated gpu and discrete gpu depending on your graphics need.

The Workstation of the old era does get hotter than their normal counterpart, but the increased graphics capability more than makes up for that. Also, the workstation laptop have better screen, like IPS in the older Thinkpad laptops.... and even QXGA 15 inch LCD in the R50p.

 

I agree that the problem is with your limited imagination/horizon.

Stop telling people what to do and what to use. If you don't have use for a particular feature, fine. But don't proclaim that nobody needs it and everybody who has it or wants it is an idiot.

 

can't understand why they have only two cads ! frankly speaking the solutions is far to be graceful.

New games require more and more powerful GPU and CPU. I have not noticed the new i5/7/3 Intel CPUs have TDP < than previous CPU generation. It is still 35W as far as I remember. More over new workstation era is still heavy-brick, none mobile box.


PS: basically I am not green on laptop market and know about such trivial things like switchable graphics, DRM, etc. Just to save your time

 

well, I want to use laptop, for example, as a hummer. Is it enough to be considered as a guy with unlimited imagination in your widely-minded community ?

Funny, in the same time you have just told me what I should not do
That is my opinion, and nobody can prevent me have this. Again, most of people need GPU just to be, nothing common with real work or wide imagination.

 

If you know about everything then why make such a fuss about these things.... just because you don't need it, doesn't mean other people don't need it.

the discrete GPU system will always be heavier due to the larger cooling system they need, compared to the integrated GPU, it is a limitation of our current engineering capability. Unless you can engineer a way to make this more elegant, then what you are saying is nothing but like a dog chasing its own tail.........

Buy and use what you need, but please don't impose your opinion on other people based solely on your own need and show blatant disregard for other people's need. The world don't spin around you nor is everyone a clone of you.

 

I intend to get a T410s and use it for CAD work! I currently have a W500 and I would love something smaller and lighter with CAD capabilities. Most CAD application perform just fine as long as they have some form of a professional graphics card. I regularly have my laptop with me moving around the shop floor at work loading NC programs.

I need a really durable machine because you wouldn't believe how nasty a machine shop is!

 

First of all I didn't state I knew everything. Don't overheat it.

again that is my opinion whether it is pretty enough for somebody or not. I like graceful and reasonable solution. It is ugly to combine herring with milk

 

i work in a processing plant where there are lot of fine dust particles, we were using a few X300 and X301 Thinkpads for on site and off site work before we all moved to the fully ruggised machine like E6400 XFR and toughbooks of various flavour due to the demand we place on our field laptops.

i have tried to use integrated GPU for CAD, but they were not up to task for anything complex.

 

Herring and milk could work if you know how to cook it properly.... sometimes you got think outside of the box.

 

what was the reason to switch to the new fully rugged laptops (mostly interested if it was because of thinkpads could not stand the conditions, or it was just a trend) ?

 

i for one drop my laptop a lot when working in field, and despite the strength of the X30x laptops, they are not designed to be dropped on gravels and concrete. So i guess the constant need for repair and repeated minor accidents mean that the Fully Rugged machines are better suited for such job applications. We still use Thinkpads and Thinkcentre for our office duties, also most of the rugged machines can be optioned for touchscreen, so this is far better to use when you are in a fully sealed off chemical suit with a fat rubber finger.

 

did you try semi-rugged laptops, like Panasonic CF-Y,W,R,S,F series ?

 

i have owned several Panasonic Semi rugged machines more specifically the Y series, Y5 and Y8. They are not much better than the X30x series in this sort of environment. I don't work in the IT department, i am an chemical processing engineer, so what we purchase for field is not i decide, i use whatever the IT department offers.

 

You cannot compare the TDP of previous CPU generations, as the new CPUs have much of the chipset built-in, so TDP of the chipset is now lower or missing altogether. You need to compare (Old Generation CPU) + (Old Generation chipset) with (New generation CPU).

 

45W for old one against 38W for new one (this is system power consumption)
Basically you are right, minus ~7W is good deal.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7uA0CW-qgM

I just found this on YT.

 

Also found this on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3_th9Yij60&feature=related


I think it's interesting that it is Mispec tested. Unfortunately it is still made of plastic.

 

On both videos the screen looks really crappy. Hopefully it just looks that way because it's recorded...

 

Guess they're using the same screens used in the T400 and T400s (have only seen two of them but that's two too many).

 

well, I like the idea of getting a Nvidia card on the T400s bc of linux/BSD drivers. The intel ones are really sh*ty, and intel GC are really really lame regarding Flash technology in videos and color settings of the screen [the dedicated part to color control of the intel drivers on windows is absolutely shamefull]

And the Ati solution isn't as great as the Nvidia one.

The best would be an integrated Nvidia graphic chip

 

The intel drivers for linux are great, and the most power efficient - maybe your distribution just fails at implementing them

The in-kernel kms approach is probably the best way to do it.

 

Lead Time went down!
If you order now a CTO, it would (theoretically) have an estimated shipping date for Feb. 2nd

 

that is partially true. Basically I have not any problem with intel driver in Ubuntu 7.10, 8.04 and 8.10. Everything worked perfect including compiz (3d effects) but there was significant regression and instability of intel graphics in Ubuntu 9.04. It was officially mentioned in some of the Ubuntu papers. The problem was not well defined and reproducible and very dependent on your chip rev./bios and luckiness They say it was not only intel to be judged, Xorg guys took their part and even new kernel with new KMS feature could be part of the problem. Usual open source stuff

As it is always with Linux, the problem workaround was published some time after. Basically how good and big the given linux distro community is the key to select proper distro

Story with crappy intel driver eliminated after Ubuntu 9.10 has been released. It is true, at least in my case intel works ok.