T410s vs X201 decision

Hello.
I am going to buy my first Lenovo and trying to decide between T410s and X201.

It will be my main work machine and I will use it mostly for Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Adobe reader, but sometimes Illustrator and photoshop.
But I have two research related programs that need quite a bit of computing power and my current laptop with Core2Duo P7350, 3GB DDR2 memory and 5400rpm HDD is not handling them very well.
I will bring my machine to my office every morning, connect to a 22-inch LCD throughout day and bring it back home in the evening.
I will seldom use it at home, but I will use it sometimes during weekends.
There will be business trips from time to time (4-5 times a year).
And occasionally I will be carrying it for Powerpoint presentation inside the company (1-2 times a week).
To thumb it up, I don't need a big power machine nor ultra thin-light machine.
So it is quite difficult for me to choose one.

Initially I liked everything offered by T410s, but I don't really need to carry a 14-inch laptop since I will use it with an external LCD most of time.
So I was looking at a smaller X201, but then I am not sure why I would need such a ultra portable when it will be sitting on the office most of time.
X201 will be handy for occasional business trips, but it is kind of bulky and T410s isn't too bad for traveling either.
So this is my dilemma.

To make my decision easier, I would like to ask a few questions.
Thanks in advance.

1. Is there a real world difference in computing power between T410s and X201 when they have a same spec (i5 560M, 4GB PCS-8500 DDR3, 128GB SSD)? Such as due to different chipsets and mother boards?

2. What would be better in terms of heat dissipation between T410s with a dock and X201 with an Ultrabase?

3. Is there a heat and noise issue with X201 compared to T410s?

4. Does a dedicated video card makes a difference in Photoshop and Illustrator applications?

5. Does a dedicated video card makes a difference in using external LCDs?

6. Is running instant backup to my external HDD bad for the SSD?

 

1. There is no differences in CPU performance provided that if you get the same CPU.

2. That depends on whether you get the T410s with nvidia GPU or not. The T410s with integrated GPU has the better heat dissipation ability.

3. Some people reckon there are some noise issues.

4. No, unless you use the latest version of the Photoshop and do a lot of photoshopping (same goes for the illustrator).

5. It does if you do lot of graphic intensive stufffs.

6. How constant? SSD suffers most from rewrite cycles not reading cycles.

 

Thank you, Lead Org.
I enjoyed your insightful comments from many other threads.

3. I do have a pretty recent Adobe softwares such as CS3 which uses multicores of CPU as far as I know. I was not sure whether they do use GPU too. I do not use them very often, but when I do, they are pretty big images (30-100mb). So I guess I might have to consider T410s with a dedicated GPU.

6. I use Acronis Backup software for real-time backup. Are you saying that SSD suffers more when writing than reading? Then backing up from SSD to an external HDD should be okay, I guess?

 

3. Big images are quite CPU and ram intensive.

6. You may try to get a DIY vidock or Vidock 4 (latter is probably better in an office environment) and then get a desktop grade graphics card like the ATI 5770, this will beat any discrete GPU that you can get for your T410s. This makes more sense too if you are using external LCD. If you are planning to use Photoshop CS4 in the future, maybe a GTX 460 will make better sense, as CS4 supports Nvidia GPU accleration.

This will ensure that your laptop will have both the CPU and GPU oomph.

Lenovo X201 Tablet: ViDock 4 - Unbox, Hardware Setup, Software Setup, and Demo Videos with the Lenovo X201 Tablet

A note of warning, the Nvidia GPU is only supported on vidock 4 if you are running windows 7: http://www.villagetronic.com/vidock/compatibility.html

 

Wow you can actually make a dedicated card work with the x201 with a dock? I did not know that.

 

yes you can which makes these ultraportable machines even more compelling.

 

Yeah wow, if I added a dedicated video card I think my X201 would actually beat my desktop.

 

GPU is still the Achille's heel of laptop, so by combining the desktop grade graphics card and an ultraportable, you have probably the best of both world.

 

Can I ask you one more thing.
According to this review, VGA output has a poor image quality.
Would I get a better output quality through Display port of the ultrabase?

Review Lenovo ThinkPad X201 Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

 

displayport of the ultrabase outputs digital video signal and it can support WQXGA LCD (30 inch models), and yes you will get better picture quality especially on big monitors.

 

i pick the T410... or if you must the T410s.

the T410s have 1.8" hdd cradle. so unless you're going for the ssd. it might have performance/capacity penalty and also more difficult/expensive to repair.

the standard t410 uses the standard 2.5" cradle.

during the slow down is it because high cpu usage or high memmory usage? 3gb is not that much in this multi-tasking, multi-tabbing, day and age unfortunately.

is it really a hassle going with t410? i mean, my sister travels around in her r500. it's not that heavy.

forget the t410s and get the t410 if you ask me. since you're not happy with your current reasonably modern, decent spec notebook.

probably if there is it won't be that noticeable.

i would say t410s.

not that i know of. usually thinkpad is very quite machine. the thinkpad x300 that i use has high pitch fan noise though.

yes. also, more and more application is taking advantage of the power of gpu. for example your web browser, also the flash player.

you see, integrated video leech memory space and bandwidth from the ram. it also takes away cpu processing power/

i'm not sure what you mean.

do you mean backing up from your ssd to an external harddrive? copying or moving data?

if copying, no it is not bad. as ssd only wears out during re-write cycle.

 

This is false. There is very little difference in speed between the Intel 160GB SSD in the 1.8" and 2.5" form factors. I have one in my T410s.

 

This is quite interesting.
On my desktop in the past, I didn't see a difference between VGA and DVI connections (from Radeon 3850 to 22-inch LCD).
Is this due to a lack of a dedicated GPU on laptops?

 

No, I don't think it is a hassle.
That is exactly why I am having a difficult time in deciding.

I want a reasonably powerful laptop (so no netbooks).
My current Core2Duo has 1400 Passmark CPU score with a slow 1.8" 5400rpm HDD and old DDR2 3GB RAM.
To me, Lenovo seems to offer a pretty powerful laptop (i5-560M (2400 passmark CPU score), SSD and new DDR3 4GB RAM).

I am just thinking why I need a bigger laptop if a smaller one gives you the same performance.

 

I'm a t410s owner so my opinion is a bit biased. I found the X201 a very nice machine, but the screen was just too small for me. If you intend to do any serious work from home, it'll be very tiresome to your eyes.

However if you'll be working 90% of the time in your office, I'd go for the X201.

 

whether or not vga is up to job depends on several factors:

1. quality of the connections, i.e. whether cable and ports properly grounded and shielded.

2. quality of DAC converter in the video card.

3. quality of analogue to digital converter in the LCD.

4. how well the digital -> analogue -> digital signal conversion is completed (whether any E.M. interference around the environment is picked during these conversion steps).

So if any of these part is not up to the job, then you would get a low quality vga connection, which usually shows up as interferences, etc.

 

Go for the power. I think W510 would be more ideal for what you want to do in Photoshop. The Quadro FX 880m is a strong video chipset. You can also get a FHD screen on the 510.

Lug it around for a while and if the weight really bothers you after a few months of use, get an X201. Then you'll have two nice laptops--the best of both worlds.

 

Does IGP of x201 is powerful enough to process and output 1080p movies to 22-inch external LCD?

 

Why does everyone think 1080p is so hard to do? My old T42 with a Pentium M did 720p no problem, ok yeah it did stutter a bit on 1080p but still. When i got a T60 with a Core Duo it wasn't no biggie anymore. Then the T61 with a Core 2 Duo was butter. Now this is from 1080p videos (WMV, MKV, x264) but not BluRay discs as i don't have a player. I know BR uses higher bitrates but that should be an issue of the input (BD ROM drive and chipsets) than the CPU being able to handle it.

Integrated GPUs these days can play Modern Warfare 2 at "decent" FPS and resolutions. Surely it's better on a dedicated one but x264 is hardware accelerated these days so the GPU and CPU can both work together if needed but in most cases the CPU doesn't do any work and the GPU handles it. Outputting 1080p resolution to a 22" 1080p should be no different than a 30" 1080p as it's still the same work needed. The LCD in the monitor displays the info to match the screen after that.

 

running a blu-ray movie using x3100 gpu and T7x00 (or any Merom CPU) will cause it to stutter lot, as the CPU is not optimised for decoding these movies.

 

I have been reading a lot about the quality of X201 screen.
It is not my major concern, but I am still curious since I have never seen a X201 in person.

Can you guys give me an example of a notebook screen (a particular model of a particular brand) that is similar to X201 and that can be easily found in big stores?

 

business laptops equivalent to X201 are all sold through online stores of HP, Dell, etc. Currently, most of the computer stores carry consumer range laptops, and most (if not all) of the 12 inch laptops available in these stores would use 16:9 screen format.

Also, you haven't mentioned which city or country you are in, and which type of stores are around your area.

 

Thanks, lead_org.
I was not referring to the size (12") and the format (16:10) of x201.
I just want to see the contrast and color saturation of x201 that many people complain about.

P.S. I currently live in Japan.

 

Its not too bad, the color and contrast are not amazing but its perfectly fine for me. The screen is nice and bright and easy to see which is cool. It is not the best screen in the world though.

 

Thanks, Flyersfan139.
So can I say that the quality of x201 screen is comparable to other general consumer laptops?
It is just not as good as some of high quality ones?

 

Really depends on what kind of consumer laptops. I have seen some better screens and some worse on consumer laptops. Unless you are going to be doing Photoshop work right on the laptops screen I don't think it will be a big deal at all.

 

I guess I am almost to ready to choose one.
Thanks.

 

Yes.

Right.

I use the X201 as a "business laptop" when traveling. I use more capable systems at my desks (office and home). In general, lower your expectations with respect to displays and graphics/video support on Lenovo ThinkPad notebooks.

 

So I customized X201.

Core i5-560M,
Windows 7 Home Premium 64,
12.1" WXGA LED 2x2 WWAN Camera,
4GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (2 slots),
UltraNavi TrackPoint + Fingerprint sensor,
128GB SSD,
6-cell battery,
Bluetooth,
Centrino Ultimate-N 6300

Lenovo is giving away Slim DVD and Ultrabase for free.
The current price is 180,000yen (2150 USD).

I am waiting for 25% discount which comes almost every weekend.
Then it will be around 135,000yen (1600 USD).

 

I made the order.
I chose X201 over T410s.
The rationale was that since I do not require a dedicated GPU most of time, I do not need a bigger laptop.
They seem to be equivalent in terms of computing power other than demanding graphics.
For me it took a long time to get rid of a prejudice that smaller is inferior.

Thank you for everyone who helped me to choose this laptop.
I participate in several forums, but I feel that this forum is the most informative.
Everyone seems to be nice too.

Thanks again.

 

Awesome! You will love it.

 

I am going to connect an external HDD through USB 2.0 port of Ultrabay.
Would I be able to play 1080p HD movies on my external HDD?
Can USB 2.0 be a bottleneck?

 

USB 2.0 is plenty fast for blu-ray. Figure a blu-ray disc is 50GB at most. Say you have a 2 hour movie. Then that's 3600*2=7200seconds. 50GB/7200seconds = 6.9MB/sec. which is about 55Mbit/sec. USB 2.0 is 480Mbit/sec. So you're good.

 

Thank you, discreteuniverse.
It was good to know.

If USB 2.0 is fast enough to transfer blu-ray contents, can I safely say that I won't be missing much by not having USB 3.0 for a while?