T420/520 or W520?

I am about to decide on a new laptop, and finally came down to T or W series.
If I decide to get 14" it would be T420 but the question is really T series or W series?

Since T is considered as original Thinkpads, are they built any better than W, and do they have better customer/trouble support since they are so common?

I have been a Toshiba user for the last 6 years, and I really liked its reliability, but I need something with more options like fingerprint reader, dockability and connectivity so I decided move on to Lenovo.

Any suggestions in helping me make a decision are welcome.
I really like W since it has a lot of power and offers much better graphics (2GB), I assume it is heavier/bulkier. But I am more interested in reliability & usability. Battery life is important but not extremely, but I doubt any one of these configs will give me less than 3 hours, and they probably won't weigh more than 5-6lbs at most. (I am hoping)

 

To address your concerns:

The W series, I believe, is the just the Txxp series rebranded. The chassis of the T520 and W520 are identical (of course, USB 3.0 ports are blue on the W520, and the W520 is labeled as a W520 on the interior).

Secondly, 2GB of VRAM probably isn't going to do you much over the T520's 1GB; however, the W520's dGPUs do have double (Quadro 1000M) or quadruple (Quadro 2000M) the CUDA core count, which does affect the performance.

I believe, according to Lenovo, the W520 is actually slightly lighter than the T520 with the 9 cell battery (negligible, though, as it was in the second decimal place if I remember correctly). Since the chassis is the same, bulkiness is the same. I can get 7 ~ 8hrs of battery life out of my W520 pretty easily, but it really depends on what you do on battery. Both the T and W 520 are around 6lb. I believe a maxed out W520 goes up to around 6.2lb.

 

Another thing to note is: Make sure you upgrade to the 1600x900 display at least on whichever laptop you get. This upgrade makes the most difference.

 

I definitely won't go with 12.5" display, it will be just too small for when I work at home. Regarding the GPU, I plan to hook up dual external monitors so I thought bigger the better.. But I totally agree that 1GB should be more than enough.

If both T and W share the same chassis/body, I assume there has to be something different internally. Also T seem to have a lot of ports in the back, while W has them on the side, which is a plus. What do you think?

 

My desktop has a 9500 GT with 512MB of VRAM and it worked fine driving 2 monitors (primary is 1920x1080, secondary is 1400x1050). These days, because I need desk space to put my W520, I no longer use a second monitor with my desktop. If you don't need the extra processing power a W520 gets you, then a T series is fine. And yes, definitely opt for at least the HD+ (1600x900) screen.

 

How do I avoid this? Left: My 6 year old laptop, Right: Brand new Dell
Picture from 3 years ago.
I ended up buying another Toshiba because that was the only other laptop I could get with this type of screen. I see that Lenovos have different type of screens.

 

That is an issue with contrast. The Dell's screen has low contrast, but the Toshiba's screen has high contrast.

Generally, avoid all 15.6" 1366x768 displays because almost always they'll have low contrast like the Dell in the picture. The 1600x900 screen should be better, and the 1920x1080 should be a lot better. Generally with an upgrade in resolution you also get a significant upgrade in other quality aspects.

EDIT: also, if you really care about contrast, avoid both of the T420 screen options.

 

I took 2 pictures of my W520 under 2 different lighting conditions (one with curtains closed, one with curtains opened, sunny day, around 5 PM). Set the camera at F2.7 and 1/4 exposure with ISO at 100, so the camera doesn't do any funny adjustments to the shots due to the different lighting conditions. The screen was on max brightness. I think the W520's HD+ screen is great in blackness reproduction as well as controlling backlight bleeding. But, don't take my word for it, judge for yourself how good the screen is in blackness reproduction and backlight bleeding for what these pictures are worth.

By the way, no, that is not a dead pixel on the screen, the camera picked up something weird (probably dust).

Spoiler

 

Avoid T420, that's a good start. I am down to T520 and W520.
I really like the idea of getting 14" monitor for portability, but if there is any known issue (image quality-wise) I would avoid it.

Thanks for the picture, it seems pretty even from top the bottom of the LCD. It is hard to tell how much it affects the picture, because there is no picture.

Also, when I skimmed through topics in this forum as well as other forums, I saw more topics with W having problems (some minor, some serious) than T series.

So basically, I am looking at T520 vs W520.
I see no benefit in getting Professional vs Home Premium, so I can save $50.

Where can I get weight information? Most likely most of the components really won't matter, other than 6 vs 9 cell battery. Does 9 cell stick out from the back or bottom, and how much heavier is it?

 

Apply the coupon code USPTXSAVINGS if you haven't already

Don't get the i7-2620M upgrade if you get the T520. It comes standard on the W520, but for all practical purposes it's just a brand name. The 2620M is a dual-core i7 and aside from cache, is only 6% better than the i5-2520M.

 

The 9 cell battery sticks out the back by like 1 inch. If you have a specific image you would like to see, I can take pictures of the W520 displaying that. I'd say that the LCD is nice and evenly lit (I notice no bright parts or dark parts).

The T420 supposedly has a subpar LCD, but I've never used one, so I can't speak from personal experience.

My experiences with the W520 aren't 100% problem free, but I haven't experienced anything serious until the 1.25-ish BIOS update. It seems that the CPU on the W520 is throttled on battery for whatever reason beyond the 1.24 BIOS. Before the 1.26 BIOS, the only issue I had with the W520 was the pulsing fan (fixed in 1.26). I'm currently debating whether I should downgrade to 1.22 BIOS and live with the pulsing fan for the full performance on battery, or stick with the 1.26 BIOS and live with ULV class performance on battery.

I don't think there is a full weight breakdown anywhere, but try Googling the spec sheets for each model, there is a reference weight. The 9 cell battery is about 0.4lb heavier than the 6 cell, I believe.

 

Thanks, these prices are after the coupon, there is also another one for W series (ECOUPON10).

The major difference is that W520 comes with 2GB Video card, not that I need it, but it is very nice to have. Coupled with 4GB ram, and an available RAM slot, it is really a delight.

About the processor, I really wanted to get a Quad Core, but I could not justify going down to 2.0 Ghz just to get quad core, and possibility of programs not taking advantage of it, with 2 cores just sitting idle. With W520, it is the only choice of processor, along with only choice of Nvidia GPU.

Does the fingerprint reader work for windows login?
And What is Color Sensor?

 

The slowest quad core you can select is the 2720QM, which is 2.2 GHz normally, and can Turbo to 3.3 GHz on 1 core, 3.2 GHz on 2 cores, and I believe 3.1 GHz and 3.0 GHz on 3 and 4 cores, respectively. The price looks high for the specs. My machine with nearly the same specs (though, instead of the $20 FPR, I have the $40 Centrino Ultimate-N 6300) cost me $1091.30 before taxes about 2 months and a half ago. Try calling in and haggling.

 

Actually, you've got to completely ignore clock speeds. These i-series processors have a Turbo Boost feature that takes them beyond the stock clock speed, and it makes a lot of difference when not all the cores are being used.

A quad-core i7-2630QM has a turbo speed of 2.9 GHz, and a dual-core i5-2410M has a turbo speed of 2.9GHz as well. These represent the speeds the CPUs will run at when only one core is being utilized. When two cores are utilized, both CPUs will also be about the same as well although the full turbo speed will not be reached. The i7 pulls ahead for tasks using 3 or 4 cores, but for single/dual-threaded tasks you won't notice much of a downside getting the i7.

The reasons not to get a quad would be: budget, or not having a use for it. But the base clock speed means nothing, and isn't something to factor into the decision.

It's also worth noting that any i5 upgrades past the 2520M are not worth it. The 2540M has a turbo speed of 3.3GHz compared to the 3.2GHz of the 2520M. That's quite literally paying $50 for a 3% difference, and not worth it. Be smart about the processor upgrades, and don't get higher than you need. I usually suggest going with the i5 over the i3 if the budget permits since it's considerably faster if you ever perform tasks that push the CPU, but don't just upgrade for the sake of upgrading.

 

The power of a graphics card is not based on the amount of RAM it has. This is just a common misunderstanding. That is not to say the 2000M is not a much more powerful graphics card than the NVS or the 1000M.

Also, I cannot really justify gettings the NVS 4200M on the T series if that is the model you are going to it. The price you pay is not worth the small performance gain over integrated.

It would really help us if you let us know what you are going to be using this machine for. Because if you don't need the graphics card, save the money and buy a quad core CPU or a SSD.

 

The last time I checked, the only way to get a quad core CPU on a T520 is if you buy the NVS 4200M too.

 

I would recommend the T520 to people who need alot of space for work since the NVS4200M supports 3 external displays (only with Lenovo's dock) and has a better battery life than the W520 because it is a less consumptive GPU than the Quadro 2000M on load. The W520 can support 2 external displays (that is what Lenovo's Yamato Blog claims), color calibrator that the T520 doesn't offer, and 192 CUDA cores dedicated to your graphics/computational needs (my W520 renders 3D models in Photoshop realtime). Both Thinkpads are worth their value, the design of the W520/T520 is extremely similar to my T61 but they're more powerful.

 

The T and the W are but variations of a base computer. There are other just as significant variations within each category. Just work out the array of variations you want...

Some choices really will make a difference, many will not - unless you absolutely need one option over an alternative (e.g. if you need powerful gpu's, usb3, or RAID, the T variations do not include them).

My variation is a 520 with a basic quad core and a dedicated gpu of the power I wanted. It so happens it is called a "T520". The most important variation for me was a SSD. For general business computing, all other variations pale in comparison. I have a 2-year old W500 with almost identical software, also on a SSD. What differences do I notice? - the incredible screen and a bigger delete key.

 

Thank you so much for all the input. SSD is really attractive, if I sacrifice on processor (i5 instead of i7) and video ram (Intel 3000 instead of Nvidia), I can easily go with SSD.

I was about to make my decision and go with W520 because it had USB3+15" option, something T series did not have, now I have to back and try different combinations including SSD.

Is there really not much difference between i5 2.6 vs i7 2.7? (2540M vs 2620M) because it costs $140 to go one step up to i7. That's half way to an 128GB SSD. Would the speed of SSD compensate for lower clock speed and lack of graphics card? I don't do any graphic intensive stuff other than a few Windows Movie Maker and VLC sessions.

 

Don't go any higher than the i5-2520M unless you're going quad or have a specific requirement for the increased cache in the 2620M.

An SSD would make a lot more difference in terms of speed.

 

Now you guys stirred it all up for me. I am going back to drawing board and start considering SSD with lower clockspeed. But, thank you so much for all the input so far.

I work a lot on outlook, in some cases I have so many e-mails & attachments opened that it hangs. I also work a lot with large excel files, again excel has a lot of trouble keeping up with my copy/paste especially from excel to other programs like outlook e-mail or powerpoint. I also do a lot of searches in my documents folder which contains about 10,000 files, and same with my e-mails, I want to be able to search and keep all my folders indexed.

I don't do any rendering or design on my laptop, but I would like to be able to keep two external 21" or 24" displays running so that I can keep my huge excels side by side, or few e-mails.

I am beginning to think that SSD will be a huge improvement in terms of search results. I just hope SSDs are reliable because I read a few horror stories with SSDs in the past. I guess Lenovo must have used dependable manufacturers.


However;
going back to buying stuff that you cannot upgrade, I guess SSDs will get a lot cheaper soon, so I can probably upgrade to an SSD later while keeping higher processor & GPU.

 

The GPU you can't upgrade. The CPU you can, though.

 

I didn't know that. Thanks.
But is the motherboard OK with going from i5 to i7 and dual to quad?

 

Your just doing outlook. for god's sake, get a T-520 and get it over with.

Renee

 

The motherboard should be fine, as there has been success with the T420 (swapping out an i5 with an i7 quad). The cooling I'm not sure about. Though, it should probably be fine.

 

Renee, you may be right but this is my only computer, running about 14 hrs a day, and I only get a chance to renew my computer about every 3-4 years. I am trying to get the most out of this opportunity and making sure that I get something fast, reliable and will last a long time.

I have read about SSD's degrading over time, I may need to do a bit more reading on that.

 

Unless you usage pattern changes in the next 3-4 years, even the most basic CPUs will be sufficient until then. Getting a higher specced dual core won't do anything for you, though quad core might be beneficial if the cost is ok for you.

 

hydepin - from your description of useage, you should chose an SSD now, not later. The 160GB SSD option provided by Lenovo is an Intel, and though not the latest generation, has the best reliability reputation in its class. But any hardware can fail - whatever your hardware, keeping up-to-date backups of treasured digital material is always essential!

Any cpu offered is more than sufficient, combined with an SSD and sufficient ram. But a faster cpu is broadly more able - and a quad broadly more able than a dual. Given an identical price, few would chose a slower dual, however "sufficient" it is...

The Intel gpu in every 520 should be fine. But with Optimus automatically running the Intel for menial tasks, and the second gpu for things that stretch the Intel, there is no real downside to adding the second gpu on offer in the quad T520's and the W520's.

A 64bit Operating System is noticeably faster than 32bit, and runs best with 4GB+ ram. If you chose 32bit, there is no point in more than 4Gb.

Then consider what you will be looking at - the screen. I would not even consider a 520 without a FHD, anymore than I would without an SSD.

 

is a T520 with integrated VGA upgradable to a quad core cpu?

 

Not that I know of, at least at time of order. Users of this forum have gotten a quad core (2720QM) to work in a T420, though. See the T420 owner thread. So, I'm going to guess that the T520's CPU can be replaced fine.