T420 Screen - How is it?

Hey all,

I've been hearing mixed opinions about the T420's screen. Would any of you guys who've seen it care to share their opinions in the poll and perhaps write a brief summary of why you voted that way?

 

Good initiative! Maybe you can add an option? I would like to answer the screen is the only reason I'm not getting a T420(s)..

 

Well, have you seen it before? If you have and you believe it's that bad, then you can just vote bad!

 

I have a T420 and find the vertical viewing angles span 15-20%, back lighting is more than adequate and color saturation could be better, but half of that is because it's matte and I'll give a no thanks to glossy and take the hit on color saturation. So it's the same complaints on this screen as you'll get on a majority of laptops that aren't high-end screens you'd pay more for. Therefore I'm fine with the screen and don't expect better unless I'm paying $1,500 for something that calls itself a superior screen (such as the X220 IPS or HP DreamColor displays).

Lenovo sources its LCD panels from the same suppliers many other manufacturers do and they have multiple suppliers, which means there might be some variation in screen quality from one T420 to another, but not huge. I don't know, people that comment on NBR are by nature more geeky than your average Joe and add to that ThinkPad discussion generates passion and that explains why there's over 158,000 hits on the search "Lenovo Screen" just in this forum alone.

 

Who're you calling a geek! Let's take this outside! *Rolls up Geek Squad t-shirt sleeves*

But yeah, you're right. People on NBR have all things notebook-related down to the tiniest of details.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, geek should be worn as a badge of honor and not a derogatory labeling so I'm not out to insult Just sayin', the type of feedback you'll get here will not be the type you see through a rose colored lens but quite the opposite and very critical. I'm not defending Lenovo, I would agree with a statement such as Apple laptop screens are better than what Lenovo sources (now if only Apple offered a matte screen the MacBook Pro would be more tempting)

 

Unless you break it down by panel model it's kind of useless to have a poll like this...

 

True. I just assumed most NBR'ers here are getting 1600x900 display.

 

Yes, but even then there's an issue: Lenovo may well use multiple suppliers for the HD+ panels. I know that the ones that have had their EDID info read and reported have all been the same AUO panels, but I don't know if there are others. Lenovo typically uses multiple suppliers for each part, and it's not unheard of for there to be substantial differences between the various manufacturers.

 

Guess a poll like this only works when it's a sticky?

 

Voted usable.

Great screen for doing MS Office work (studying, taking notes in class, at least 8-10 hrs per day).
Watch TV shows on it at night when I wind down. Viewing angles aren't great, but I've never been bothered by them. I would rate them the same as the viewing angles on my wife's glossy Dull Studio.

The poor viewing angles are not, IMHO, a reason to not purchase this amazing machine. Unless you're in it for lots of movies and games, then go buy a Dull.

 

^ I agree. The screen is usable. I got my T420 on Friday, opened it on Saturday and expecting the screen to be horrible from all the comments about it. It isn't at all. I don't have a problem with the screen at all.

 

They do

 

"Usable. Not the best thing since sliced bread, but I can live."

this is quite an 'unfair' option. of course as long as you can see a display, you can live with it. and without this middle ground, the other two options are pretty much 'its excellent' or 'its unusable'.

so i picked other. its crap enough for me not to buy it myself, but if a company gave it to me i'd live with it.

 

The viewing angles are pretty bad. Unless it's tilted perfectly and your eyes are perpendicular to it, parts will be washed out. I ed and moaned about it for the last few months. Hopefully lenovo will listen next year.

I use the T420 for software development. If I were to use it for anything else - gaming - movies - graphic design - I would absolutely recommend something else. I have slight buyer's remorse because of the screen. Otherwise it's a great machine.

 

I can't help but wonder if the reason that I'm happy with my T420's screen is that, as one of the first people here to receive a T420, I wasn't able to read thread after thread of people griping about how horrible the screen is...

 

Perception affecting reality? I honestly think the only time I had a serious issue with my Vostro's low-quality TN display was while watching movies with little background lighting. I recall that glare was never an issue.

 

Things that make you go hhmmm.....

 

Sorry, batched up the poll right on the spot. I added that option in because other NBR users gave me an impression that a display could be so bad that a user wouldn't be able to stand it--even if they could see a display.

 

Is T520/W520 much better than T420? This is what I'm reading as specs for HD+ screens 1600x900

T420 - 250nits 300:1 contrast
T520/W520 - 220nits 500:1 contrast 60% gamut

 

Just saw the FHD screen on my friend's W520 and it is absolutely amazing. So I think the poor quality of the screen on the T420 cannot be attributable to the anti-glare coating.

 

That's actually part of what I'm wondering myself, though I haven't turned mine on yet.

It arrived today. It's still in the box while I await my 8GB of RAM to arrive tomorrow. I'm not going to open the box to start setup until I have everything here, since I have the RAM, mSATA SSD, and the 500GB Scorpio Black from my T400 to put in it.

It's not like my T400 has any better viewing angles, I'm sure. I usually pivot the display around some when image editing, or when playing the odd game or viewing a movie. I'll see tomorrow, but I do wonder what 14" LCD most people are comparing the T420 to, not because I think the T420 will have an incredible display, but because I wonder what other 14"-LCD business-class Sandy Bridge laptop (other than the much-more-expensive HP Elitebook with Dreamcolor) is better.

 

Thing is we don't know who exactly provides the best 14" HD+ panel overall, reading people's opinion of the HP Elitebook 8640 screen hasn't been stellar either. I personally seen the Dell Latitude E6420 with "HD+ Premium Panel Guarantee" and it isn't actually that bad in my eyes and is certainly a world apart from my T61 in battery mode at max brightness and against direct sunlight from the window (Yes my T61 is useless as you see in the image - poor Amano).



I tried to get info on that particular Dell screen but I can only sniff out the following: SEC544B - MJ154_140KT. We have no idea who makes this panel and my friend isn't willing to rip apart his Dell to find out! Maybe I can try and do a side by side with his Dell E6420 and my T420 once I get mine soon.

 

Is there an IPS replacement that users can DIY like with the 201?

 

I'd definitely like to see that, and hope your T420 will be available soon to do it.

I'd also be interested in hearing other comparisons, like the keyboard/trackpoint, and general build quality stuff.

 

Here's something I've found while comparing info from both Dell and Lenovo's websites:

E5420/E6420 1600x900: 300nits, 400:1 contrast, 45% color gamut
T420 1600x900: 250nits, 300:1 contrast, unknown color gamut (presumably 45%)

So for one thing, at least we know they're not the same screen.

 

For reference, here's the T400, going back two generations (from Lenovo's data sheet)

WXGA (1280x800, 98dpi, 185+ nit)
WXGA+ W/LED Backlight (1440x900, 129dpi, 200+ nit)

And the one from the T410

Display – T410
All LED
14.1" WXGA (1280x800) 16:10 aspect, 200 Nit
14.1" WXGA+ (1440x900) 16:10 aspect, 200 Nit

The WXGA+ display on my T400 is the CCFL-backlit WXGA+, so I'd guess the brightness could be lower.

Lenovo did not list the contrast at the time, but one would gather the T420 is an improvement over the previous displays in brightness and contrast. For those who find their T420 to be "grainy", that could be another matter.

 

LoneWolf15, have you had a chance to unbox your T420. Just wanted to know what your impressions are. In my experience, comparing raw numbers is useless. It's the user perception and experience that matter.

 

What notebook is that on the right???

 

It's a Samsung panel. Don't know why I didn't catch that first time reading through the post, but that most definitely means Samsung. My M4400's display reports SEC5443, and it's also a Samsung panel.

 

@zeth006; Notebook on the right is T61 as Hearst mentions in his post. Unless you're talking about the Dell on the left which he also mentions in his post I think.

 

i for one never really read those threads or bothered about them because i wasnt interested in the T420, i only started clicking on them and posting in them after seeing it in real life and being shocked at how bad it was

 

Just got my T420, will write a more detailed assessment about it later but for now I will comment on the screen. The screen is OK, not the best but certainly not the worst i've used. It is grainy due to the Anti-Glare coating and looking closely can appear to be griddy. Unfortunately my unit come with a stuck pixel on the right, my first ThinkPad to have it (the only other laptop I had with this issue was a cheap Acer back 5 years ago...).

The panel has a Lenovo ID of LEN40A1, in detail according to Everest is the B140RW02 V1 panel made by AUO. Looking at the screen it could possibly be the inferior of the two options available for this model but can't confirm unless others can provide more info.

 

That's the same panel I have. I haven't see any other panel models reported by T420 users; if there's some difference in panel options, it might be down to a difference in the antiglare coating used. I wouldn't describe my panel as "grainy", and the only way I'd call it "griddy" is if I stick my nose in the display much closer than is natural, at which point I can start to see the divisions between the pixels as I would on any other display. I've asked multiple other people to comment on the display and none of them have noticed either of these effects.

Can you try adjusting your settings in software, or better yet, booting a Linux live CD/USB stick? Also look at the optional updates in Windows Update for a driver update for the panel; I was offered one when I had Windows on this system, but I didn't bother to see if it changed anything.

 

I have that exact same panel and it looks pretty grainy to me (more than I am used to coming from a T60p). I checked which of the two panels my system came with by clicking on "View parts lookup for this system". One can get to it by looking up the machine's warranty on Lenovo's website.

FRU part# 93P5693

It would be interesting to see if there really is a difference between those two panels. Technical support claims there is no difference between the two.

 

Same for me, but I'm not seeing the "grainy" thing. Maybe I'm just blind or not picky.

 

I hope I am just being picky and paying attention to it more than I should.

 

I've been using my new T420 for 5-6 hours straight now, from upgrading the RAM, to installing an mSATA SSD, to swapping out the platter hard drive for the one from my T400, and all the software installs between.

If you're switching from a T61 or a T400 to the T420, the brightness and contrast are an improvement. You'll likely wonder what the fuss is about, or why some people seem so disappointed, at least if you're going by those things alone. I can't say the same for the T410 because I never owned one, but it could be as well, I just don't know.

If I stick my nose six inches from the screen, I can see what some might describe as a "grainy" character. That character is completely invisible at the foot and a half distance most people have between their eyes and their screen when they are using it.

My only disappointment is the 16:9 aspect ratio. That's something that going to a new Dell or HP wouldn't change. For those of you who spend hours at your system and consider 1600x900 at 14" might be a little tough on the eyes, two options remain.

-Sigh, and buy a 1366x768 T420, sacrificing image resolution for larger text

-Sigh, and buy a 1600x900 T520, sacrificing a slight amount of portability for a larger screen.

If I had to do it again, I might go the T520 route, for my eyes' sake. The T420 is my favorite form factor though, and the screen itself is very usable.

 

If you go to a 15.6" screen, you might as well go with the FHD screen and run it at 125% DPI. That's what I do.

 

Why not just increase your font size to compensate for the increased pixel density? At least with GNOME I know that there's a setting which works exceedingly well for this sort of thing.

 

I have. I'm using medium. Most of the time it is fine. On days where I'm tired or have been staring at a screen too long, it gets a little difficult.

 

Some data:

On the Lenovo sales site they list the T420 1366x768 screen as 220 nits, yet in the tabook they say 200 nits! Also, the base screen in the T410 is rated 220 nits: So besides moving from 16:10 to 16:9, the T420 base screen seems to have less brightness as well.

The 1366x768 screen on the T520 is listed as 220 nits in both sources, but with a higher contrast ratio (500:1 vs 300:1) and a 60% color gamut (believe the T420 base screen is lower).

I realize most people looking at this aren't interested in the 1366x768 screen, but some people have bad eyesight or are ok with the lower resolution. That said, it would be nice to have some opinions here from folks who purchased this screen.

Also, (and mods pls delete this part if inappropriate) notebookcheck reviews the T420 and e6420 screens and lists their nits and contrast ratios. They both get fairly lackluster reviews.

 

I've had my T420 for two days now, having upgraded from a 6 year old T42. The screen is so far superior to the T42 that I can hardly complain about it. So take my opinion for what it's worth, particularly if you're coming from a MacBook or something else with a quality panel. Obviously it's nowhere near as good as my Samsung panel for my desktop, but the viewing angle, brightness, and color are all much, much better than the T42.

There's nothing new to be said about 16x9. It's not good. (BTW I have the 1600x900 resolution.)

I didn't know what people meant when they were describing the screen as "griddy" - that's not a word I'm familiar with. Having the T420 in front of me, now I know. It's bizarre and almost imperceptible, but when using the T420 at a normal distance, I do notice grid lines running through the screen. It's hard to describe - it's sort of like those Magic Eye images from the 90s that required you to relax your eyes to see a hidden image. I don't see the grids by intensely scrutinizing the screen, but rather by going about my normal business and catching it out of the corner of my eye as I write an email or browse the web.

Maybe I'd want to return the T420 if I had it next to a MacBook for comparison. But I don't, and it's better than my T42, so it seems fine to me.

 

I believe that is an effect that LCD panels have when the pixel density is too high, but is also dependent on the person viewing it. My dad complains about it on his laptop (15.4", 1680x1050) and on monitors with more than 100 DPI. Admittedly, I never noticed the effect that he was talking about on those monitors. However, with my MP3 player (Sony Walkman NWZ-E354) which has a 200 DPI screen, I do notice it sometimes.

 

Re: "I believe that is an effect that LCD panels have when the pixel density is too high, but is also dependent on the person viewing it. "

Not really. I had 1600x900 screens before my T420 and never observed any "griddiness". I've also seen the 1920x1080 screen on the VAIO Z (13") with much larger pixel density but there is absolutely no "griddiness" there. The higher densities should actually give you an opposite effect.

 

The griddiness is down to the panel quality, I don't notice this when i'm using the Dell E6420 with HD+ resolution but I do notice it's more apparant on the Lenovo T420 with the AUO panel.

 

I have purchased T420 with 1366 x 768 screen resolution. I can see the gridiness if I look at the screen very closely. But I think it is due to the matte coating of the screen. The screen is very bright too on maximum value but mostly I set it between 8-11 of the brightness. It is certainly not very good when watching movies.

 

What panel do you have (vendor-wise)?

PC-Wizard lists my display as an LP140WD2-TLB1; a search leads me to believe this is an LG-Philips panel. I know there are two HD+ panel FRUs for the T420, is one AU Optronics and the other LG?

 

Would this thread be an inappropriate place to discuss alternatives to the T420 with better displays? I really have no idea of what's out there. I understand that the W520 and X220 have options for higher quality displays, but are there decent options for 14" notebooks by other vendors?

I'm also curious to know if the W520 and X220 higher quality screens are something new for the Thinkpad line. Do they perhaps point in the direction of a higher quality panel being made available for the next generation of the T420, or is there some other logical explanation for why 12" and 15" notebooks would get higher quality panels but 14" would not?

 

The Dell Latitude E5420 and E6420 have a better quality 14" 1600x900 display from what I know.

It's brighter (300nit vs 250nit), and has a higher contrast ratio (400:1 vs 300:1)