T420 Screen quality acceptable or not?

I wanna (finally) replace my 7 year old X40 and the 2 contenders at the moment are the T420 or the X220. Based on the option for a 1600x900 screen on the T420 I'm leaning towards the T420, the X220 would only mean a change from 1024x768 to 1366x768 and I would love some extra vertical space.

To be honest, I was on the verge of ordering a T420, but when the first reviews came out.. mediocre screen quality for a $1500+ laptop? The poor screen quality of the T420 being my only reason not to order it,

I would really like some honest, first hand opinions. If possible, could T420 owners compare the screen in real life usage (browser, text-editor, youtube, photo editing, watching DVD etc.) to other laptops they own(ed)?
(I'm assuming by the way T420 and T420s screens are the same)

Some quotes:

"Display Colors : Though it would be manageable to watch movies with this color reproduction, the experience might not be enjoyable for visually acute users. The coverage of color spectrum is below average, making colors look far from authentic and incomparable to real life experience"

"Contrast : This contrast can be simply described as bad. Black areas resemble a shade of dark gray, and whites look dirty"

"Viewing Angle : Looking at the screen from the side causes color distortions"

Source: Lenovo ThinkPad T420 NW183GEReview

"The matte screen has m² maximum brightness of 200 cd /. The contrast is also very low. At maximum brightness, the ratio of 158:1, which is unacceptable for a device of this price range"

Translated with Google, source: Lenovo ThinkPad T420 NW4NGGE im Test Halbwüchsiger Office-Star auf notebookjournal.de

"I was so disheartened to see how bad the T420 display is. The viewing angles are terrible. Tilt the lid so that the bottom part of the screen is focused and the top part of the screen becomes a blurred washed out mess. Images are so washed out that they almost appear black and white"

Source: forum.thinkpads.com • View topic - T420 display among the worst I've ever seen :-(

"1600x900 16:9 250 nits, 300:1, fairly narrow viewing angle, particularly vertical direction. Tt seems the pixels are not very tight, sometimes look 'grid-dy'"

Source: Lenovo Thinkpad T420s review

 

hmm. Well I wish I'd seen these before I put in my order for a T420s.

 

I don't worry too much about viewing angel but am a little concerned about the gridiness...

 

Review Lenovo Thinkpad T420 Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

and scroll down to screen.

 

Two different users share their opinion of the T420 screen quality in the first page of this thread.

When I ordered my 14.1 Widescreen 1440x900 T61, the number one complaint was screen quality. However, when I checked out similarly priced laptops available locally, I discovered that they had the same screen quality issues - the glossy screens just made them less noticeable. So I decided it was an acceptable risk, and the screen has worked fine for my purposes.

Hope this helps.

Don

 

I guess I'll find out when my T420 arrives, though estimated ship date is not until 4/26.

When that happens, I'll be happy to compare my T400's WXGA+ display, the T420 HD+ 1600x900, and any similar Dell systems I have at work (I may have an E6410 I can locate) and let people know. It will be somewhat subjective, but I'll do what I can.

I will say I'd rather have more screen real estate from top-to-bottom than on the sides. I think most of us business-class users would rather be able to see more of a web page or a document than be able to match movie resolutions. I wish I could still choose 16:10.

 

I think the 1600x900 screen on the T420s is fine. Stellar? No way. But it's a normal business class 250 nit screen. I could certainly use it as my day-to-day machine.

It really depends on the app mix.

 

Seems many 14' could have been fiited with better screens. For the price and in these days, 'acceptable' or 'good enough' is imo not good enough, Knowing the 510\520 screens are far superior in many areas, what could be the problem in using a 14' variant of these 15' screens. Whatever the reason, had a 420 order ready to go (NW182MN) + xtra 9cell, in stock & 2 days delivery, but stopped when coming across the screen tests Otherwise, it looked like the perfect investment. Back to the drawing board for now.

Some screen tests comparisions listed in http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/570356-t420-t520-reviews-screen-differences.html

 

I'm in the exact same situation, replacing an X40 and wanting a higher vertical resolution (and, preferably, not too much lower physical screen height). I finally decided on the T420 (delivery next week ), after having seen the entire new Thinkpad lineup and my old X40 next to each other at Lenovo's offices here in Stockholm.

In short, if you're used to the X40's screen, the one of the T420 is nothing but an improvement. It's as good or better in all regards. It's also far behind a modern, bright IPS screen. But at least for me, that doesn't matter. I'm used to the X40 (and the T61, which I had at work until recently), and the T420 has a screen that is at least as good as those.

In other words, my guess is you won't be disappointed, as long as you're not expecting a miracle.

 

Thanks, just the kind of info I was hoping for. Guess like many others I'm trying to compare the T420 screen to the o so perfect (according to the reviewers) X220 IPS panel. Thanks to clever marketing I suddenly seem to need a laptop with USB3.0, IPS panel, 1TB SSD, 25 hours of battery life and 1920x1080 resolution on a 11.6" screen

You are right, anything I buy now will be a big improvement over my current laptop, even if it would be a T400 or X200.

And about expecting a miracle, well, would like to see a Dutch shop that sells a T420 at US prices..

(Congratulations on your T420, would love some T420/X40 side by side pictures)

 

My screen is just fine. Its bright when I crank up the brightness, no screen door effect or grain noticable and I never view the screen from the side so that viewing angle complaint is not from me, only others.

Sig below as to what I have

 

The Thinkpad screen are not as bad as some people make out to be, the deciding factor is what kind of screen you have been use to. Personally, when I hook up my x120e to an external monitor and go back using the built-in screen on it, you could tell that it is worst quality. If the laptop is your primary machine I don't think you will notice, since you eyes have adjusted to it over usage.

 

To some degree it's going to depend on how you define acceptable. The usage will probably effect your overall happiness with the screen. For Office and Internet, it's probably decent, but for any multimedia usage, it's probably substandard. The reality is since the been making notebooks, truly good screens have been few and far between. Most have been fair to middling with limited viewing angles and poor contrast. In the ThinkPad realm, only the FlexViews have been very good. If anything you could make a pretty good argument the T420 LCD is better because it's brighter even if that's it, which it may be.

 

I second that. I only notice that my T42 screen is kind of crappy when I go back after hours of working with my home Eizo monitor I use for photo editing. When working mainly on my laptop, I never complained about the screen quality - it just works fine for what I do. Even watching movies is not nearly as bad as people tend to say.

I suppose the same would go for T420, though I haven't seen this particular screen in person.


M.

 

How does the 1366 x 768 screen compare to the 1600x900 technically? (contrast, viewing angles etc). I guess very similar?

 

I've got the T420 w/ a 1600x900 screen and its decent, its not going to blow you away. I think the brightness is great, it tops out at 15, I usually set it on 12 because I find the brightness a little harsh when editing word documents. Yes there is a grain effect, I do notice it when I look hard at the screen or am sitting close to it, but if I sit back I don't notice it at all. I really enjoy the anti-glare coating, its really nice not having your screen look like a mirror.

If you are a business user or student, I think this is a great laptop, but if you are more consumer oriented, I would probably look elsewhere.

$1500? Man thats a lot. I paid $900 for mine, and put in about $200 worth of RAM and SSD. I don't think I would pay much more than what I have though...

 

Any word on if the grain is more visible at a lower brightness? Something around 1 to 4?

 

O.p. seems to be from Europe - when you include VAT and customs, 1500$ is pretty much a basic price for a Thinkpad from the official distribution channels.


M.

 

The O.P. is from Europe actually, from the Netherlands to be exact. In short, T420 is not available through dutch Lenovo site, it is however available on both UK and German site, neither of those will ship to the Netherlands. (even though we are all part of the EU)

So, in the Netherlands the only ´regular´option is ordering from a (Lenovo certified) reseller.

As we speak, cheapest T420 (NW183MH) available:

i5-2410M, Windows 7 Professional 64, 4GB, 1366x768, 320GB, 6Cell and 3 years warranty: $1783 at bluelink.nl (tax included )

For $1100 (the amount amtbr spend) I can buy a refurbished T400 with a 'only 100 cycles' used battery..

 

Another of these threads, eh?

Alright. I suppose I'll throw my $0.02 in:

In the past two years I have used these ThinkPads: 600X, X40, X60s, X61s, X200, X200s, X300, T43p (UXGA, IPS), T60 (w/ SXGA+ TN), T60p (w/ SXGA+ IPS), T60 (w/ XGA TN), T41 (XGA TN), T500 (WSXGA+ TN), T410, T420, and probably a few others that I'm forgetting.

Of these, the only screens that have been excellent have been -- surprise, surprise -- the IPS/PVA ones: my T43p, T60p, and X200 (upgraded with PVA panel). The only TN panel that I'd describe as good was the WSXGA+ one on my T500.

Everything else has been exactly what I'd expect for a business-oriented notebook: fairly low contrast ratios, slim viewing angles, and high black levels -- that is to say completely acceptable for its intended use, but a poor choice for movies and games. Now this doesn't bother me much because I use my ThinkPads for work, specifically software development. As far as I'm concerned, if it's not glossy and if I can make out the syntax highlighting, it's good enough for me.

And no, the T420 panel (at least the HD+ AUO one) is no worse than its TN predecessors in any of the key areas (viewing angles, black levels, contrast, etc.) It's brighter, more-evenly lit (thanks to LED backlighting), more power efficient, and offers marginally better colors. It's not great, it's bad compared to an IPS/PVA panel, but it's definitely acceptable for its intended uses.

TBH, I'd say it's not noticeable at all if your eyes are the proper distance from the screen (minimum of arm's-length).

I'd say it's most noticeable from about 10/14 on up -- but IMHO it's nowhere near as dramatic as folks on the forums are making it out to be. If you've ever seen one of AUO's matte 13.3 WXGA panels before, that's basically it: a mild grain effect that simply looks like (and is likely due to) a strong diffusive coating.

It in no way effect sharpness, contrast, etc. and IMO will really only be a problem if you make it a point to notice it every time you look at the screen. So... ya know... don't do that.

 

Another one of those threads where someone is concerned that the laptop they just bought for $1500 (or euros) from a company that charges a 15% restocking fee if you just open the box might have crappy screen? Totally unreasonable. Hate those threads.

 

That sounds like a good reason to do research first, purchase second rather than the other way 'round.

 

Indeed. That's why many of us are here.

I'd like to be able to examine all the options in person. But unfortunately if I'm lucky enough to find a retailer with Lenovo on display, it's unlikely to be one of the optional displays - like the HD+ T420, or the FHD W520. Hence people ask questions here.

Unfortunately my workplace is a Dell house - I'd like to try another vendor, like Lenovo, for my home use. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence!

 

I think OfficeMax or Office Depot carries ThinkPad's here in the USA. Fry's had a T410 on display the last time I was there.

Something to think about if you are concerned with screen quality.

I think everyone should SEE the screen they are buying before they buy it.

 

My Office Depot had some Lenovo notebooks but were of the Entry/Mid level only, not Txxx thinkpads. So I just bit the bullet and purchased the T420 anyway since the screens at Best Buy / Office depot looked good enough straight on so the T420 shouldn't be worse, but better, I hoped. No regrets

 

Office Max, Office Depot and Fry's near me (San Diego) don't carry any ThinkPads (Just the Edge series). The Microsoft Store has a T410. It would be great if users on this forum would post comparison shots of the Thinkpad screens.

 

What I'm most concerned about display-quality-wise is vertical viewing angle. (Besides the 16:9 low vertical resolution in modern screens.)

For example, my wife's HP dv4 is so narrow that the contrast changes from the top to bottom of the screen. Very irritating, as it makes it hard to view photographs as the sweet-spot angle is so small. Makes any kind of color, contrast, and gamma display tweeking rather pointless.

My old Dell Inspiron 6000 1680x1050 may not be IPS, but the viewing angles aren't that bad.

Never having eyeballed them - It's my understanding that the T420's HD+, or the T520/W520 FHD screens are tolerable if not perfect. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

 

If you want good viewing angle stay away from T420, even with the HD+ screen the viewing angle is still kind of narrow. The 15" are the way to go or you can get the x220 with an IPS screen.

 

Thanks! I've been thinking along those lines, but it's nice to see confirmation.

 

When you find one of those (oh, and with a price tag below €1000, of course), let me know.

Tell me about it. Sweden is just as bad. Luckily, I'm a student right now and could therefore order from the German academic vendors, which at least offer near-US prices if you include the European import tax and duty. If you happen to be a student or university/research institution employee, do take a look at lapstars.de, who also give you a keyboard layout of your choice for €35 and an English preload for free. =)

Will post some as soon as it arrives!

 

You would need a pro photographer and studio to be able to produce that type of comparison. Even then you aren't going to match the personal subjectivity each of us has.

That's my opinion anyway.

 

Different topic but some info about the T420(s) screen: http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/567205-thinkpad-t420-t420s-owners-thread-12.html

Seems that some people talk about a 'grainy' screen while others don't have it or don't see it. Could it be that one of the above is grainy and the other is a bit better? If so:

- Whats the easiest way to determine which panel you have?
- Would it be possible to order a T420 specifically with the better of the 2 panels?

 

None of that is required to give someone an impression of the differences in screen quality. A forum member posted comparison shots of his T420 and Dell XPS 15:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/566452-quick-student-review-t420.html


The differences are quite obvious (even if not perfectly accurately represented). It also gives an impression of the size difference between a 14 and 15 inch 16:9 screen. It would be nice to see text displayed on both screens for people who are concerned whether it is readable at 1080.

A picture is worth a thousand words. And worth at least a thousand forum members posting "the screen looks grainy".

 

I can, of course, not rule it out, but I doubt it. Rather, it seems from several of the comments that people are simply more or less sensitive to the slight screendoor-like effect of the anti-glare coating. Several of the people who claim not to be disturbed by it say they can see it if they look for it. But that's just my analysis.

Not sure on 1 (you can, of course, open the machine up, but there might be an easier way of which I don't know), but on 2 the answer is, unfortunately, no. This is the case with several components. For example, it appears that some T420(s)'s ship with an Intel X25M SSD, and others with the newer Intel 320 (see http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/570352-t420-s-160-gb-intel-ssd-russian-roulette.html). Lenovo has confirmed that there is no way of knowing which one you'll get.

 

With respect, as much research as one can do doesn't help if no-one local carries ThinkPad T-series notebooks to visually inspect.

The alternative that many are faced with is making the best decision they can on the specs posted, ordering, and hoping they do not have to be subject to a restocking fee. Based on everything I could find and read, I ordered a T420; I'll be hoping that when I get it, I won't find a T520 would have been a better choice for my eyes.

In comparison, Dell offers a 21-day satisfaction guarantee with no restocking fee. I understand that it's a potentially expensive thing to do; I just wish there was another way that Lenovo could make it easier for many of us to see display models prior to purchase, so we could make the best decision.

 

Absolutely. The selling buck rests squarely with Lenovo.

Potential customers shop in relative darkness while being advised to do proper research. Very interesting.

It's your money. If the seller does not provide you with enough information to make your purchase with confidence (pre-sale and post-sale), why are you so eager to spend your money?

On the other hand, if you feel that the seller already provides you all the information that you need (which could be very simple because you don't care about eyeballing or touching anything), just go ahead with purchase and don't think of returning it.

 

For what it's worth, 1 year ago I was content with the screen on my T410. The colors are better than on my old Samsung 960bf desktop screen. Now 1 year later I'm not so pleased anymore. The vertical viewing angles are disgusting. Find myself adjusting the lid pretty often to compensate that. Otherwise the colors look really weak/washed out.

I have never seen a T420, so take my advice carefully.

 

I guess this is one thing we Europeans actually get as a small consolation for our steep prices: a legal minimum of 14 days right of return at no cost, provided there has been no degradation of the product.

 

I supposed that was the LAW in EU countries, at least England. Thanks for confirming it.

There is some form of civilization somewhere on Earth.

 

a small consolation it is....

 

I could not, and would not make a buying decision from those photos. I also agree with the other posters in this thread. Dell has a better return policy.

 

Did i read lenovos website correctly that the t420 is an LCD while the t410 is LED backlit?

EDIT: Nevermind. I found where it says backlit LED for the t420.

 

All T420 displays are LED backlit.

 

From a new topic by ferganer80:

So, is this user extremely 'screen-sensitive' or does it really make that much of a difference which panel you get?

 

Since I saw the T420 yesterday in a store and I had the opportunity to compare its display(HD+) to others, it's quite easy to summarize what I saw: it was the worst display in a 14" notebook. Even cheap Acer machines that cost 60% less than an average configuration T420 here in Germany had better displays. The only good things about this display are: it's not reflective and the resolution is not "retiree friendly"(meaning low, i.e. big pixels). I'm sure if I had to watch a 10 minute video on this machine I'd feel like pulling my hairs out.

I can also confirm that the HD+ screen in the T520 is way way better. There were no machines T420/T520 with HD screens to compare to, but those are out of the question for most of you anyways.

The horror parts:
- worst contrast compared to any other notebook in the store, including very cheap Acers
- plain horrible viewing angles; so bad that it's kinda hard to find a vertical position for the screen so that you can see it properly. Open it too much and the top part looks bad, close it too much and the bottom starts to suck. The sweet spot where you see both the bottom and the top right is very very narrow.

Now the not so bad part... the points above were more or less true for the Thinkpads of the past as well (except for the Flexview displays). So, yeah, it's bad, but normal. Take you pick.

 

I think I finally did.. I'm willing to pay $1700 for a (near) perfect laptop. T420(s) just isn't it cause of the mediocre screen.

And if I don't get the perfect laptop anyway, no reason to spend that amount of money on a T420. I'll just spend $800 on a far from perfect Dell/Acer/Asus/Packard Bell, a second hand T400(s), T410(s) or even T60.

 

i just checked out the T420 in singapore, lovely laptop, but the screen is horrible. i have no idea what is wrong with the panel to make it look so bad. unbelieveable! i sometimes wonder if companies actually look at the products they ship....

 

To be honest i'm not particularly concerned about the screen on the T420, my T61 with a CCFL Samsung panel is probably the worst screen I come across with extremely limited angles (just tilt your head and the colour goes) and dim brightness. So if you typed your messages in white on this forum for example most likely I probably wouldn't even notice.

Yet somehow I managed by (typing this message on that very screen so to speak) and yes I do Photoshop design work on this laptop (though not ideal). So my expectations are quite low but i'm banking on the fact that the T420 screen with LED cannot be worst than my T61's, the bar was set low enough already!

 

it can be,personally i'd pick the T61 screen over this one any day. its not about color accuracy. there are weird lines, its like the pixels have extra space between each other or something, resulting in an odd grid-like 'texture' which i guess is what people are calling 'grainy'

 

It is way better than the 1440x900 I have in my T61 "server" at home. But that's just because the luminosity of the T61's display is very low.