T420S, X220, or?

Hi,

I'm trying to work out what the next laptop I purchase will be.

I am an Electrical Engineer, meaning I use a lot of very CPU-intensive software. However, I am also always on the go and need something portable and with decent battery life. Finally, I am known to be rather clumsy. My last laptop was a Fujitsu tablet, but it has since fallen to pieces with the way I have treated it.

These factors considered, I thought a Lenovo or maybe a HP Business laptop would be my best choice.

I don't care a lot about the screen quality (I don't do any work on images etc) but resolution is quite critical for some of the massively-bloated design software I use. Due to this, I figured I would go for a T420s, but the portability and battery-life of the X220 is growing on me.

I don't play a lot of games, so graphics isn't too important to me, however I know some of the software I use a lot is GPU-accelerated, so a discrete graphics option wouldn't be unwanted.

What are my options? What do you all recommend? Budget isn't a great concern for me, I want the best tool for the job. Is it worth me considering a Vaio SA etc??

Thanks!

 

How longer does the battery need to last for your daily use. I would recommend the T420 with or without the discrete graphic card if you need both battery life and the resolution. T420 is just 1lb more than the T420s. If you don't need that much battery life on the go, than the t420s would be good option. If the regular HD screen is fine with you, the x220 could also be a good laptop for you. You have to balance the tradeoff yourself and decide on your own, which is more important to you. Personally I would try to see if the HD screen on the x220 would be enough on an virtual machine. Trying doing your work on it when you are at home, if the resolution does not do it for you, than you can make the decision if the extra pound is worth it for a larger battery.

 

The T420s is not significantly slimmer and lighter than the T420. If you don't mind working every day with a 12.5" screen, consider the X220. The T420 with 1600x900 display, on the other hand, offers more visual working space. If you don't game, the integrated GPU should be powerful enough, and you can conserve battery.

Recommend: T420, i5-2540M + HD 3000, 1600x900, SSD, 9-cell battery. (You could keep the main HDD for project data/documents and add an mSATA SSD for OS/apps. Alternatively, you could have SSD as main drive and put a HDD in the Ultrabay for project stuff, but you'd lose the optical drive in this case.)

 

Interesting problem.

What is the minimum screen resolution you need?
Will the applications you mention run well with a good dual core CPU?

 

@ OP...why the interest in the x220? Won't its relatively smaller screen size and widescreen format (and supporting res) pose a problem with your work?

If computing, however, is the sole basis of choice, then I'd say the x220. I have found - personally - that mobility (up to a point) - generally ends up being the deciding factor for me. YMMV, of course.

 

Between these two for your usage T420s is the easy choice. That line is a very good one. Aside from the screen (which doesn't matter to most Thinkpad buyers outside forums) it does everything very well in a very sleek package.

 

I think the 768 vertical pixels would drive you crazy. I'd be looking Thinkpad T420, Latitude E6420, and Panasonic F9.

 

T420s is 1600x900.

 

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I'm now leaning back to my original choice of the T420s. With so much buzz around the X220, I begun to think maybe it's a better product. But whilst it is very portable and has a great battery life, it is no use if it is too small for me to be productive. I'm going to play around with resolutions on my office PC this week and see how low I can take it whilst remaining sane.

Re the T420, you may be correct the T420s give you only a little more for a much higher price, but unless there are any disadvantages to the slim model over its bigger brother, I'm happy to pay the premium.

I think I'd be pretty happy with the T420s, but are there any other major players I should consider?

Also , what are my options for a SSD in the T420s? I rarely use a CD drive so I would likely get the bay battery and/or an extra storage device.

 

The T420s is really in a league of its own against the major players. You won't find other sub four pound 14" notebooks from them.

 

The thing that I do not like about the t420s is the battery life, If you plan to do a lot of work on battery you might consider getting the ultrabay battery for it. Just buy an mSata ssd and use the regular ssd for storage. If price truly not an issue for you and you have little demand for large storage, consider getting a large 2.5 intel hdd.

 

Has anyone done a good review of the T420s and assessed the battery life? I think it's too early to conclude what it might be for that model until some reviews come back on a couple variations of the T420s.

 

Huh? There are some pretty interesting 13 and 14" machines on the market now. I'm not sure the T420s is in a league of it's own. Until reviews hit for the Sandy Bridge offerings from Dell, HP, ASUS, Acer, Samsung and others, nobody is in a league of their own right now.

 

There's Panasonic Toughbook F9, but I guess that one is price-wise (and purpose-wise) in a league of it's own.

 

How many other 14" notebooks, sub 4lb notebooks are available with solid processors, HD+ res and discrete graphics. The T420s fits like a glove for the OP's usage. Lenovo really hit a sweet spot when they created the T400s.

I don't think anyone ever considers anything other than Dell, HP and Lenovo for field use (Toughbook again is for a different type of field use).

 

One thing that should be considered is whether or not discrete graphics is needed in the T420s for his software considering Sandy Bridge outperforms the discrete graphics in the T410s. In the T410s, despite having Optimus 'automatic switching' battery life was severely penalized with discrete graphics. It remains to be seen whether that'll be the case again.

 

Sorry, I meant that in reference to the X220. I didn't say T420s because it's weight and thickness advantages aren't worth the premium in most cases.

 

Depends on how you define the field and role. Series 9 Notebook | Samsung Office Series 9 Notebook might change a few minds.

 

Also, it should be pointed out that the E6420 has an option for a quad core processor. It would kill battery life, I'm sure, but it's something you should consider for your uses.

I love Thinkpads, and I love my laptop squeezing into as small a space as possible, but sometimes it's just not the best option.

 

Since the OP considers himself "rather clumsy," would the T420, T420s and X220 models fair about the same during a accidental drop, or would the T420 withstand more pressure, being the heaviest, whilst the X200 suffering more damage, being the lightest?

 

I'd assume quite the opposite, especially considering the similar semi-rugged build. The lighter and smaller one will definitely withstand more dropping and bumping around.

 

I'm in a similar dilemma and looking at both of these laptops.

I still have a T400 with a P8600 right now.

How big of an upgrade would a T420s be? How would the x220 perform versus this machine?

I mainly do web work and the most intensive processing I'll do is probably encoding and editing video.

Love to hear your thoughts.

 

With the T420s or even the x220(s), you should definitely see a speed bump over your current Penryn system. Encoding should be quicker, but not sure about magnitude.
If anything, you'll have a lighter system, possibly better graphics (definitely if your t400 is using integrated), better battery life, USB 3.0 (I think both new systems have this), Displayport output (just kill the VGA port already), and hopefully a better screen. Didn't the t400 have lousy screens?

 

x220 when or if they bring out 1600x900. If you cant wait, I would get a t420i with 9 cell + slice and 1600x900 screen. But if you can wait Id wait for the higher res x220.

 

Yeah. Seems like the screen is the main thing. Would love 1600x900 and that's my main sticking point with the x220. Otherwise seems like an easy upgrade, better screen, extremely lightweight, better battery etc.

 

I went from a i7 720QM back to a p8600 and now an SL9400. The only thing that changed was video encoding time. I multi-task pretty intensely (usually sever different apps) and real world performance didnt change a bit. Just added a few minutes to movie encoding.

As for the screen, the t400 had a lousy screen to those who love glossy RGBLED style screens. Not a graphic design rig at all, but actually very nice for other users. When I had my WLED XPS or my RGBLED m17x laptops sure their screens were brighter and more vivid then my t400. But both were 100% useless in any light and for my needs made no discernible difference.

 

I would love an x220 with that screen. But until it becomes an option I cannot and will not trade my wxga+ (1440x900) screens for 1366x768 screens. Not that Im even remotely thinking about upgrading at this point.

 

It seem to me that Lenovo can't create a perfect product for me. There is always trade off. Whether it is the screen resolution, the graphic card option, the quality of the screen, and the overall weight of the product.

I just want a 12-14 inches traditional Thinkpad with good screen (viewing angle, contrast ratio, and resolution) with a video card that performance almost to the level of 5650. Lenovo just doesn't seem to deliver.

 

I think the t420s makes sense for what the OP is asking for ... I would try to get discreet graphics, since that will help with battery life on the laptop... I am a huge fan of all day computing ...

 

Putting a 5650 level card in a 12-14in laptop is gamer style and not bsuiness style. Usually the only people that do that in laptops in that size are alineware and asus. If youre looking for gpu power in a smaller or ultraportable laptop lenovo is not the band for you.

I do agree that they have been hit or miss on the other characteristics. The screen resolution is why Im still using my t400 and bought an x200s as I doubt 1600x900 will be offered on the x220.

Getting the i version will yield better battery life then optimus would as well as lessen the issues that come from optimus. Unless there is a need to game then the intel gpu will be more then enough. So no the discrete option will yield worse battery life.

 

Lenovo is foolish for not offering T series with a nice GPU like that. People want nicely built laptops but then you see those gimped GPU they throw in there and they go back to their Dells. Is it that hard for their engineers to put something good in? Acer does it on their 13" laptop.

 

Yes, some people do want a good GPU in a smaller machine, but they are in my opinion such a small slice of the pie, it's not worth it for Lenovo to pursue them. You must remember the bulk of Lenovo's business comes from businesses, government and education. Most of those people couldn't care less about getting better GPUs. They're much more interested in unit cost, durability and compatibility than the GPUs or even good screens for that matter.

 

and also battery life.

 

ZaZ hit it on the head.

I'm one of those that want longer battery life, integrated GPU and a durabile business notebook. If I game, it will be on a nice desktop system with a 30 inch screen, not a notebook. A brighter screen that has some wider viewing angles is nice (Not a deal breaker) as well, but I look directly on, and not from the sides.

 

Not much to add after ZaZ. But Id be willing to bet that if you polled all thinkpad users 90% wouldnt care less about having a higher then usual GPU installed. I see where you guys are coming from as I used to be a gamer and wanted the same thing, but I realised that isnt the thinkpad MO.

 

Lenovo just add a higher resolution screen option to you ideapad/edge, I will settle with that.

 

The vertical viewing angles on the T420 are terrible
http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/566452-quick-student-review-t420.html

The X220 can be had with an IPS panel.

 

I don't find it terrible. I would use the word "So So" or "Could be lots better", but not terrible. "Terrible" suggest that it cannot be used at all and the sky is falling. Besides, who views the screen from an angle anyway ? I don't.


Just look at the other manufactures screen. Not much better or can be worst.

 

Hi, as a fellow electrical engineering student, I may be able to provide you with some alternative advice. Be forewarned, I likewise was considering the new thinkpad T420s or X220 lines, however couldn't wait out the release. I went with a sony vaio Z.

In hindsight, here are what I would consider my needs/constraints in order of preference (negating things that are common to all machines, such as fast processor).

1) Screen resolution. I went with the 1080p vaio display, and it is amazing. My eyesight might be better than most, however I can stick two matlab scripts or pdf pages side by side for incredible productivity. For this reason alone, I would not go with the X220.

2) Size. As a student, you are always on the move and I prefer to study away from my office/home, so having a light laptop that is small is a huge plus. I had a macbook before, and at ~ 5lbs, I found it too heavy.

3) Connectivity. It is great to have HDMI out for easy connections to TV's/Displays for fun and I imagine the next wave of projectors will take HDMI for easy connections when giving presentations/talks. This kept me away from the previous thinkpad x201. USB 3.0 is great to have.

4) SSD. The RAID0 ssd config in the vaio Z is pretty sweet, although SSD options exist for all options, SSD is really a must.

5) Durability. I'd say this is where my vaio seriously fails, and if I was to make the purchase now, would probably opt for the T420s for this reason alone.

6) Discrete/Integrated graphics switch. I like this much more than optimus, which seems suboptimal with respect to your control of power dissipation. With the vaio, I can simply toggle a switch to go into integrated graphics for super power saving or go with the discrete graphics for some leisurely gaming. I'm not hardcore, however it's nice to have the option to play a game of starcraft 2 every now and then.

7) Battery life. This is more of a luxury, for flights or the random time you're watching a movie in bed. However, most of the time if you are doing anything serious, power plugs should be available.

My setup is good for what I need. Allowing me to be productive off site, but something more or less replacing the desktop at home. I use an external keyboard/mouse/monitor setup with a network shared drive for storage at home. I can't even tell I have a laptop when looking at the 24 inch screen.

With all that said, I would opt for the T420s if I were you. However, if you want a machine a little more well rounded and are okay with reduced durability, you may want to wait to at least see what the vaio SA will bring with the HD display. I don't think price point should be a huge constraint, assuming you are spending a lot on your education already (huge assumption, but most textbooks you don't even use are $200) and the fact that doing well in your studies will pay off huge in the future. Good luck with your decision.

 

I agree. Was also considering the Sony Z. Was waiting for the T420s or the SA and went with the T420s mainly b/c it came out first. (And I have a bunch of thinkpad power adapters already.)

The X220 is a great pc with its lightweight, battery life and IPS display, but the low res screen resolution makes it a non-starter for anyone who has a used a high res display and can't imagine going back.

The Sony Z and T420s are the only high res screens (1920x1080 or 1600x900 respectively) under 4 pounds that I know of.

 

Programming is painful at low resolution. After spending some time with the T410s battery life is well... terrible. Getting the add on ultrabay battery would help, but the battery will deteriorate quickly. I'm majoring in Electrical Engineer as well, but we have not pushed the CPU very much. My university deals with more with theory than actual software, so I guess it depends what school your from. I've used multisim, matlab (again with only simple programs) and seen no problems with an i5. For primary and only notebook I would not suggest getting the x220. The T420s is good, but most likely get around 3 1/2 hours maybe 4. Just so you know Lenovo always lies about battery life just like any other company.

I think the best option would be the T420 a better version of the T420s, just a pound heavier. Even with all that said I would probably later get a x230 or what ever it will be called as a secondary notebook, but never as my primary.

 

Thanks a lot victorsValiant. I'm not actually a student, but your experience is very insightful.

I agree about the resolution of the X220 being a deal breaker. The Vaio Z is a beautiful machine but I feel I would rather buy the latest generation of CPUs. I doubt I can wait for the new Z/SA.

My greatest concern of the T420s now is how poor its battery life is. My old Fujitsu T2010 would last for 10 hours when it was new. Going to something with a ~2-3 hour battery life would be a big hit (see the T420s owners thread)

This is making me consider a T420. Its cheaper, which is a bonus I suppose, but I wonder if the added weight will be a major inconvenience.

Weight or Battery Life? Hmm.

 

There is also talk of a new HP elitebook, around 12inches with a higher res screen. However, I really dislike the look of the HP laptops.

I'm in a similar situation as a lot of people here. I heavily considered the current generation vaio Z. I want the 1080p screen, but the battery life is something that bothers me. Coming from a Sony Vaio TZ, my battery has worn down to about ~4 hours of charge, which is what I would get were I to get the current generation Z.

The x220, right now, looks as if it might be my next machine. The resolution is the same as my TZ, and it has the new sandybridge CPU's which I'm really keen on getting. And finally, the battery life of the x220 is something special.. And to throw on that slice battery, awesome.

The current Vaio Z, I could get the 9 cell battery, but I hate how it sticks off the butt of the laptop. Or maybe even a second 6-cell... I'm still considering this option.

As for the t420, t420s lcd screens. YUCK. Lenovo drives me nuts in this regard. Were Lenovo not to offer the ips on the x220, I wouldn't even consider it as a serious option.

Just my two cents.

PS: T420s is a stinking joke. Add that bay battery, and you have a machine that's basically the same weight as the t420. Less than 3 hours of real world battery life with the regular battery?! Come on.

 

I can tell you that the 2-3 hour figure is way low. It was generated by running the laptop in max performance mode (which disables all of the power saving features) and with the DVD drive spinning. Of course battery life is going to suck under those circumstances. Doing the same test on the T420 6-cell would result in a battery life of around 3.4 hours.

AnandTech did testing on another (Asus) laptop with the same i5-2520M CPU and a bigger 15" screen, and they measured power consumption of ~9.6W for a real-world heavy-flash web browsing test. That translates into a battery life of ~4.5 hours with the 6-cell and ~8 hours with the 6-cell and the UltraBay battery.

Compared with the 6-cell on the T420, the T420s's capacity is around 20% lower. Given that users are reporting 6 hours on the T420, I see no reason to believe that the T420s wouldn't be able to get at least 4 hours without the UltraBay battery.

 

Post number # 84

Yes, I get around 5,5-6 hours from my 6 cell battery with browsing in Chrome and and 10 open windows, and 10 hours from my 9 cell.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/566452-quick-student-review-t420-9.html

Link above shows a more hands on review regarding screen and battery life. Perhaps those that are critical of the T420/T420s should look at those instead of bad mouthing the notebooks and give wrong information.



http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/notebooks/lenovo/thinkpad_t420/382353

"In our battery test, in which we disable power management, enable Wi-Fi, maximise screen brightness and loop an Xvid-encoded video, the ThinkPad's 6-cell, 57 Watt-hour battery lasted 3hr 30min. This is a very good result for a 14in laptop and it's even better than the 3hr 19min achieved by the 13.3in Sony VAIO SB. You can get even more life out of it if you manage the power options properly through ThinkVantage. If you want the longest possible battery life, then you can consider getting an additional 9-cell battery slice that can be added to the bottom of the laptop."

 

T420s, not T420. Can't add that sheet battery, nor do you get a 9-cell battery option with the T420s. You can only add the extra 3-cell bay battery.

 

The T420s would be the same in battery life as the T420 since it has the 6 cell battery, thus my post about "Less then 3 hour battery life" comment. Maxing out the screen brightness and doing Xvid-encoded video and everything else will on most all notebooks, give average battery life. But who maximise everything ? Research the reviews on the T420 and T420s to get a real world battery life and you will see that both systems are pretty darn good.

 

^^^ No. 6-cell batteries are not identical: their respective performances are different because of different technologies used. The T420s 6-cell battery is weaker: 44Wh vs 57Wh.

ThinkPad Battery 66+ (6 Cell - T420s)

ThinkPad Battery 55+ (6 Cell - T410/420, T510/520, W510/520, L Series)

 

I'm sure the compromise was made in order to keep it under 4lbs. It's a shame, really.

 

^^^ Yeah, the T420s tries so hard to be cute.

The T420s is like a pretty, high-maintenance woman that I lust to go out with, but for marriage, I opt for the more realistic T420.