T440s up on Lenovo website (IPS Screen, 1080p)

Who the heck is doing processing that actually uses 4 cores on a sub 6 pound laptop? The fact is that almost all tasks are single threaded and those extra cores will do nothing 90% of the time, and Intel has really improved IPC over the past few years so even lower clocked CPUs are very fast. For me I think it's pointless doing these things on a laptop because for $600 you can build a desktop with amazing performance and it won't burn you when you try to use its power. I wouldn't want to constrain myself to one machine only but for most tasks (Web browsing, writing code, office type stuff) performance doesn't matter, and so I find these ultrabooks perfectly fine. Even the HD 4000 in last Gen CPUs is apparently as fast or faster than the Radeon 5650 in my current laptop and that's sufficient for light gaming, and again, for anything more demanding a desktop is just more cost effective and also just ergonomically better.

And for whomever wanted to upgrade to a quad core CPU on their own, even if it was socketed there's no way the cooling system would be able to handle over double the heat output effectively.

I guess Sony has some laptops in that range but I feel like those types of laptops are just asking for heat issues.

 

Interesting discussion on performance of ULV vs. traditional CPUs. I agree with those that think quad core is overkill for a "business" laptop (as opposed to gaming or workstation), but I'm also a traditionalist: new computers should be faster than old ones.

With this in mind, I have a T430 with i5-3210M @ 2.5GHz. What would be the Haswell ULV part that would give me the same or better performance? I checked the Ars article linked above, but didn't see a 1-for-1 comparison chart.

I'm already running an SSD and 12GB RAM and would expect to do the same on a T440s, so it comes down to CPU.

 

... Intel hasn't released the rest of their mobile CPU yet. They are having a conference this week to release the rest of their CPU. Why are you being so quick to decide? You would most likely get a 14in if you want a quad core.

 

It wouldn't be as fast but the battery life would be much better. If you want a mobile CPU, wait till Intel release them.

 

i7-4500U is close.
Intel Core i5 3210M Notebook Processor - NotebookCheck.net Tech

 

That seems unlikely, and the cooling system won't handle something much more powerful anyway.

 

Thats what people said about putting a quad in the t430 and it worked flawlessly without heat problems(not sure if t440 has the same heatsink and fan though). Temps were just as good as those with dual cores and you had the extra power if you ever needed it.

 

I always here people on the t430 thread saying their using their thinkpads for running multiple virtual machines simultaneously which i am pretty can be configured to use hyper threading.

 

What an encouraging article at AnandTech -- it says that for single-threaded performance, the i7-4500U is within ~34% of the very top-end desktop model tested. Fabulous!

Of course obviously if you have a task that can peg more than 2 CPUs simultaneously and for more than a second at a time, then a quad-core is going to be a nice win, but that's really not common. Video transcoding will do it, but that's something that's either done fast or you leave it over night anyway. *Maybe* running big compiles (but these could easily be bottlenecked by disk). Big data analysis jobs can do it when I take the trouble to make them multithreaded, but usually I only bother for jobs that are so big that I want to run them on the 40+ core server anyway. I'm not saying that there aren't real use cases where it's useful, just that if you need it then you probably have some very specific situation that you're thinking of; it's not really a meaningful upgrade just for upgrade's sake.

I actually believe this, on the grounds that it's very difficult to actually use (or benefit from) those extra cores, and they don't generate heat unless you use them. And even if you're using them a bit, then the cooling system has some headroom, since it's designed to handle the worst case scenario of dual cores and GPU all running flat out for hours at a time. And temps won't change until it gets overwhelmed, it'll just make more noise. Depends on your appetite for risk, I guess, just like overclocking: you go a bit faster, and give up on the solid-engineering will-handle-anything aspect that makes Thinkpads appealing to a lot of people.

Given that the t440 is designed as an ultrabook, though, I would speculate that its going to have less headroom and tighter tolerances all around than the t430...

 

Even with dozens of windows open while doing basic non-intensive activities, my Dell Latitude E6410 (i5 M520 dual-core, Nvidia NVS 3100M) and Latitude E6430 (i5-3340M dual core, NVS 5200M) both run hotter and louder than the quad-core Lenovo y410p (i7-4700MQ, GeForce GT 750M) that I was able to use for awhile. Even though I was rarely using the power of the quad cores, it was nice knowing they were there. It would be nice if the t440p offered quad core (and/or if the y410p offered a better screen).

 

@ibmthink - has yours shipped yet?

 

I may have missed this being posted here, but anyway: (You have to go down a level on the page to the Thinkpad T series and/or the T440s model (The url's were too ridiculously long to post here):

T440S Individual Service Videos
Lenovo Service Mobile Portal | ThinkPad

T440S Hardware Service Training Course (09-03-2013)
Lenovo Partner Portal | ThinkPad Laptops

 

Yes. I have 16GB RAM on a T430s with a 512GB Crucial M4 SSD and run 2-4 VMs continuously at any given point in time. Usually one of those VMs, at least, being a Win200x Ent Server w/SQL Server or Oracle in it.

 

I run VMs and natural language processing software running on a 16GB X220t with an i5-2520M and a 512GB M4. For tasks like this, cores are more effective than MHz, and hyperthreading is not as performant as real cores (a GPU is pointless to me, though at some point using it as a general processor could be viable). I'd be glad to see a real quad core t440s, but 16GB is more important for my workload. I'm a very mobile worker so light weight and portability are key for me, otherwise I'd consider something like Dell's m4800, which can take 32GB.

 

What the heck?

T440s: 3-cell battery = up to 6 hours ThinkPad T440s Ultrabook Laptop | Lenovo | Lenovo (US)
T440: 3-cell battery = up to 8 hours ThinkPad T440 Ultrabook Laptop | Lenovo | Lenovo (US)
T440p: 3-cell battery = up to 10 hours ThinkPad T440p Business Laptop | Lenovo | Lenovo (US)
(see the "Standard on the..." spec box on the right side)

Mistake? Or something else?

Why would the T440p have so much extra battery life over the T440s? Worse screen?

 

They might all have 3 cells but not of the same size. T440p is much thicker than "s" so its cells probably have a greater capacity.

 

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that...I wonder what that would mean for other battery options? Is a 6-cell expansion needed (30 hours of life for 3+6 configuration) if you get (up to) 10 hours with the base 3 cells? Does it support the same kind of hot swap as other models at all (3, 3+3, 3+6)? Will it only offer a sealed 3-cell with the only battery expansion being via Ultrabay? Or use a big 3-cell that's sealed, but use the same size 3-cells as the T440s for the add-ons?

From a manufacturing cost and SKU management perspective, I think they'd want to keep to a single size of external battery within the same product family.

Lots of questions...I don't remember seeing a definitive statement on T440p battery configurations yet. If I missed it, could someone link me?

 

Maybe slightly different batteries due to thickness of the laptops. (Oh yak already said this - just saw) - then yes, it feels a bit weird that they will have different size batteries.

Also note that when they state those hours (e.g. 6 hours on T440s) it is very likely they are including the power drawn from the internal 3 cell battery that is standard on all three models. I.e. I doubt one 3-cell will give you 6 hours.

 

A 3 cell will give you 6 hours with Haswell. It will just be idle. A 6 cell (46 Whr) will definitely give you 7 hours of use and 5-6 hours of constant use (refreshing webpages every minute, while streaming, and working on other task).

 

I agree, i'm waiting for the specs to be released, and then decide on upgrading to a x230/x240 or T4x for the first time!

 

I think since they said the external batteries are interchangeable between models, they must be the same size. But it's possible that the internal one on the T440p is a bit bigger. Though I pretty much ignore manufacturer battery estimates since they usually just give the maximum possible idle time.

 

Yeah, I do too, but they should be at least directionally consistent within their own models. The difference between 6hr on the T440s and 10hrs on the T440p is pretty dramatic - especially since the speculation is that the p will (might?) have a quad core and/or perhaps a non-ULV CPU. Since Lenovo even calls it a "laptop" not an "Ultrabook" on their US web page, they're not shackled by Intel's requirements for component usage to merit the Ultrabook name.

Granted this is "up to" 10hrs, so that's probably with the crappiest ULV part, SSD, and lowest RAM they can include at the barest minimum idle. But the T440s battery life would be tested the same way...so a 4 hour difference is still a lot! (even if it's only 90 minutes difference at normal load, it would still be a large percent gain).

So, I'm guessing it's due to a bigger internal battery, and when tricked out with a high-end CPU it'll be at or slightly below the T440s battery life.

I'm just hoping that the difference isn't because the T440p has a lower resolution, non-IPS screen or makes other sacrifices.

 

BTW, thanks for the link. According to the service manual (linked elsewhere), the T440s comes with an i5-4200U, "up to 2.6GHz".

Well, according to Notebookcheck (the link you gave), the 3210M has a clock rate ranging from 2.5GHz (what I have) to 3.1GHz while the 4200U has a low of 1.6GHz and a high of 2.6GHz. Notebookcheck shows benchmark results in min-average-max ranges, so I should compare the low benchmark on the 3210M (i.e., corresponding to the lowest clock speed, which I have) to the high benchmark on the 4200U (which I'd probably get in a T440s).

While the *average* score of the 3210M blows away the Haswell 4200U, the Max score on the 4200U beats the minimum (and usually average) scores on the 3210M every time.

This means I can get a T440s that will actually be faster than my T430, even though Haswell ULV chips tend do be slower than Ivy Bridge.

Is my logic sound here?

 

There's a range of scores because several laptops were tested. I think you can assume the T440s will be at least average. Don't look at the clock speeds as they're not comparable between CPU generations. All 3210Ms should have the same clock speed. I don't think it would be good to buy a new computer which risks being slower than your old one, so pay a bit more for an i7 and a SSD, or buy something bigger than the T440s with a non-ULV CPU. Anandtech has an article comparing the latest MacBook Air with ULV i5 and i7 (though unfortunately not the same CPUs as the ThinkPads.)

 

Well that sucks. So I went to my campus store and played with T431s again. It is a nice machine. All I did was sign into my school's website and read my syllabus and read more. Not really it said that I had exactly 4 hours of battery life when I unplugged. I open some PDFs and such and a few minutes later battery life went down by 3 minutes. So pretty accurate? I let it go idle for a little while and battery life did not readjust. The T41s comes with the 47Wh 6 cell.I was kind of surprised by this because while the battery life was definitely not the advertised 9hours most people were getting at least 5.5hours. Don't know why it would tell me 4hours .
So the T440s is coming with two-3 cells rated at a combined 46Wh. That may be too low for me. I guess I will have to get the extended. The 17hour extended battery time also must be referring to the T440 and T440p. I'd be happy with a solid 10-12.

 

Will the T440S use a different kind of dock from the t400/t410/t420/t430?

 

Yes, it has the new Dock-connector. There will be three new docks, the Basic, Pro and Ultra Docks.

 

well well T440/540p specs finally came online:

ThinkPad T Series: Premium Laptops | Lenovo (UK)

T440P
Up to 4th Gen Intel® Core™ i7 processor
Up to Windows 8 Pro
Up to NVIDIA® GeForce™ GT730M graphics
Up to 16GB DDR memory
Up to 1TB HDD or up to 256GB SSD storage
**Up to 6 hours battery life
Up to 14" FHD (1920 x 1080) IPS display
Starting at 1.9 kgs (4.1 lbs) / 27.9 mm thin (1.1")


T540P
Up to 4th Gen Intel® Core™ i7 processor
Up to Windows 8 Pro
Up to NVIDIA® GeForce™ GT730M graphics
Up to 16GB DDR memory
Up to 1TB HDD or up to 256GB SSD storage
**Up to 7 hours battery life
Up to 15.5" FHD++ (2880 x 1620) IPS display
Starting at 2.5 kgs (5.5 lbs) / 27.9 mm thin (1.1")

Thank god the Tx40p's got decent displays and even FHD++! Ill definately get me one of these! :thumbsup:

 

Now the question becomes release date and prices. Would like to buy an i7, small drive and memory, trick the latter two out myself for substantially less than Lenovo would charge.

 

So the t440s wont come with a 730m in the UK?

Worth buying it from another EU country and shipping it maybe?

Also, price wise anandtech stated they will start at $899 and $1149 for the t440 and t440s respectively, hopefully they won't simply change the $ into the pound sign like some companies do..

 

That's interesting. UK Lenovo site states that T440s will have up to 4th Gen i5 CPU and T440 will have up to 4th Gen i7 CPU?
Shouldn't it be the other way around? >.< Same goes for GPU options, T440 Up to 720M, while T440s is only listed as Intel HD.

It's all upside down from announcements from earlier this month.

 

good catch, hopefully its that.

also, how is it that the t440s is available on some hong kong site alrdy.. is end of october release realistic for eu then? sounds late

 

Doesn't seem like Lenovo did much with the extra space in the T440p chassis compared to the T440s. Better CPUs, but the same discrete graphics as some T440s' will have, no Expresscard, no HDMI, no large SSDs, no official dual-drives, no UltraBay?

[Edit: never mind, I don't seem to know anything about the non-s laptops.]

The main page says up to 6 hour battery life, whereas the product page says 10 with 3-cell battery.

That page also shows the T440s as NOT being available with an i7 nor with discrete graphics. Doesn't look good...

 

The T440p/540p is supposed to come with an optical drive AFAIK. that probably means you can swap the optical with a hdd drivebay so dual HDDs should be possible for that matter.

 

- T440p has UltraBay
- T440p has Expresscard
- Good thing that they don´t put consumer ports (HDMI) on ThinkPads yet
- Its useless to offer really large SSDs, since nobody would buy this option. It would be too expensive, and most people prefer to put in an large SSD by themselfs, which is also cheaper for them

Not yet at least. But its known that the T440s with discrete graphics won´t be available in North America (but likely in Europe).

 

What's the reasoning behind this? I'd love a 440s with an i7 and a 730m.

How feasible / difficult would it be to get a European 440s with these options? (would there be any power issue if I used it here in the states?)

 

Is it possible to put a battery into that ultrabay?

 

Edit: never mind, I don't seem to know anything about the non-s laptops.

 

Nothing is settled about this yet. This could be a possibility. But the former T430 also didn´t have this feature, only the T4xxs-Series. We will see...

 

They haven't announced the base stats for the T440s, as far as I know, but I'm thinking that at $1150 it's gonna be overpriced.

"Up to..." I7-4500U, GT 730M, 1 TB HDD, 12 GB RAM. I mean I would think you could get all that at around $1150, but those are the best this laptop offers, which will probably put it over, what, $1500? I dunno. I felt like the Acer V7-482PG-9884 was overpriced at $1300 with an i7-4500U, GT 750M, and 12 GB RAM, but even it will probably end up being cheaper, with a better vid card.

I get that Lenovo is a more established brand. It would just be nice if they would actually build something unique to justify the price. But hey, at least they've got that great keyboard.

 

The t440 does not appear to be getting an IPS display. If that is true that is an utter shame.

 

Power isn't a problem, you'd just need a plug adapter. Problem is prices are significantly higher in Europe, and the base warranty may not cover the laptop outside Europe. An extended warranty probably would. You also have to watch out for different keyboard layouts in non-English-speaking countries.

 

Why? The T440 is the cheapo version of the T440s.

 

I can accept that FHD is only available on the S model but I thought that after the endless complaints about the T43xx's screen that Lenovo would completely get rid of it. . I want to upgrade to SSD AND have IPS and it doesn't look like I'll be able to do that unless I spend ~$1400. I'll have to wait and see some reviews if I'm going to trust the T440 screen.

Are the "P" variations usually much more expensive than the "S" versions? I'm willing to sacrifice some thinness...

 

The T440s is not coming with I7 according to that UK website.

. It says Up to 4th Gen Intel® Core™ i5 processor
up to 12GB memory
Up to 1TB HDD, up to 256GB SSD storage

If you were to price a T431s with I7, 12GB ram, and 1TB HDD right now it would be $1401.
A tT430s would be about $1244 but only with a 500Gb hard drive and 8B ram (It goes from 8-16gb). So I guess about $1300-$1400.
So not sure what to expect with the T440s. It may be around the same if you are getting the IPS screen.

Not sure what my options will be but I only need the base I5 processor, base ram, and 500GB hard drive, IPS and extended battery, and 3 year Accidental Protection. I am hoping all that comes to $1500 with tax.

 

Holy moly! I just did a quick price check comparison from UK->US and it's roughly 60% more expensive (based off of t430s). I'll take my US version T440s and not complain anymore.

 

I can't say for sure. I first bought my T43 laptop in 2005 and the p versions came out on the T60s I believe. They may have been more expensive. However, thinness is actually a bigger cost factor than processors. The T430s was a $150+ premium over the T430. The price between processors is not usually that great or may be the same. so... If you look at the UK website the the T440p will be .3 inches thicker than the T440s/T440 which like the T430 will probably costs less to begin with than it's thinner counterpart.

I am actually curious as to what the difference is between the T440/T440s besides the availability of a better screen on the T440s. Could the T440 be the replacement for the T430u?... I wonder.

 

No.

"P" versions were first introduced on A20p. The last ThinkPad to carry that designation was T61p.

In the meantime we had A21p, A22p, A30p, A31p, R50p, T40p, T41p, T42p, T43p, T60p and Z61p.

Upgraded graphics card and higher-resolution screens were a tell-tale of these top-end ThinkPads of their era(s)

 

Yes you are right. I think you were correct. I remember reading about the p version of the A series back when I was on the forums in 2004-2005.. I think I was so strapped for the cash I must have skipped over the p models conversations. I remember hearing the costs and it was not even in my budget. I do remember higher screens being available but I could have sworn someone shot me down about that in a different thread or different forum lol.

But there was not a size difference as there is now. So the P series may start lower but maybe due to options may get as high as the T440s but one may be getting more so...

 

The T440p actually seems like a reasonably light laptop, not chunky at all at about 4lbs. Though it seems like those looking for a high performance laptop may be disappointed (I'm guessing no quad core option, just standard voltage mobile i7) but it seems like if you want a bit more single threaded performance than an ultrabook without sacrificing too much portability this is a great choice. I do kind of feel though that the three 14" laptops are all very close and maybe a little more diversification might have been useful (like, change the T440p to T440 and have the T440p be a little thicker with quad core option?) though I personally don't see the use for a quad core in such a sized laptop. There was a time when I thought I wanted a W530 but I quickly changed my mind.

I guess it would have been cool to see FHD++ in a 14" laptop but that's probably not coming for another generation or two.