T500 with Intel or ATI graphics

I am curious about the T500 series.

I want a laptop with either DVI, HDMI or Display Port.

There will be some instances in which I want to connect the notebook to an external LCD monitor (22 or 20"). Thus, I am not really considering the 14" T400 (unfortunately). I did want a lighter, more portable notebook but I will settle for 15.4" if the other specs are 'right.'

But, if I got the T500 with the Intel graphics, would it still have a Display Port? I believe that is the other video interface (besides VGA) that is on the T500 but do they all have it?

Can you connect the T500 to a LCD monitor and have both video and sound?

 

The Intel 4500MHD does indeed support DisplayPort, and I know that my E6400 has it so I'm pretty sure the T4/500 would as well. Read the specs page carefully on their website, and read the fine print. You'll probably find it will be included.

 

No matter which graphics card you choose, the port selection will be identical. If you plan to do graphics intensive tasks or plan to play games, get the switchable ATI graphics.

 

If your only concern is desktop level tasks and video, then the x4500 will be just fine. However, due to the design of the T400/T500 there is no downside (other than cost) of getting the switchable solution.

The x4500 will be able to drive an external monitor at 1680x1050, 1920x1200, or even 2560x1600 just fine.

You will NOT get sound over this connection. The current crop of ThinkPads does NOT support audio over DisplayPort. You will need to run a seperate 1/8" stereo cable from the headphone connector.

I'm not sure if you considered this, but you can get a dock for the T400 (or even the x200) and get digital video out (DVI or DisplayPort) this way. If your goal is a light laptop, I would recommend this route.

The primary reason to opt for the T500 over the T400 is the higher performing video card for games, higher resolution screen, and DisplayPort on the notebook. If you don't intend to play games, find 1440x900 or 1280x800 adequate for on the go use, and only need to use an external monitor at one or two locations; then the T400 or x200 would probably be a better choice due to the lighter weight.

 

The problem is I will dual boot on the notebook. The only reason is I think it's good to have at least one Windows OS but I can always use VirtualBox but I don't know how well hardware and software run on it. I know that you can do individual things fine but...

Anyway, my point is I will also run Linux and I am not sure how this dock will work with it. I checked the Thinkpad wiki but it is incomplete and there's not a lot there about the newer Thinkpads. It sounds like it would be fine but the dock is another thing you have to carry around, right? Is it 'true' digital video coming out when using the dock? What do I need? A VGA to DVI adapter or something else?

No, I don't need the advanced discrete GPU but I read that there have been issues with Intel drivers when it comes to the X4500 and Linux. I wanted a Nvidia GPU but I thought the Intel one might be good enough and it allows for better battery life. I just don't know if I should rely on Intel for good drivers though.

I am comparing the Thinkpads to the Dell (Latitudes) lately since I think it would be good for the long run (parts, durability, online support etc.) but I preferred the Thinkpads slightly because of DDR3 RAM and maybe it's more durable overall? However, I wonder if the Dell screens are better. Any comment on that?

Do the Dells and their Display Ports support sound? Or is that a universal Display Port issue?


To summarize, I want high quality screen and an option for connecting a LCD monitor to the laptop. I don't need it to be good for gaming but I am wary of having an Intel GPU since the graphics might not be their highest priority. They are a CPU co. after all. Nvidia and ATI have a vested interest to supporting their hardware and drivers since they are constantly competing with each other and trying to get the upper hand. However, we all know they have had their own issues so I don't know which direction to take.

 

The DisplayPort audio output issue is a universal Montevina chipset issue, so Dell Latitudes also have that problem.

The general consensus is that Dell offers better screen options, especially on the Precision line.

 

The latitudes have good quality screens, both of them are going to have that durability and quality feel overall. You can get the the T400 if you're not going to be gaming with it and sticking with the Intel GPU (and cheaper than the T500), and by the way that competition you talk about, if anything else, is spicing up progress for both companies that ultimately benefits us.

 

What about notebooks with DVI or HDMI ports then?

Same thing?

 

No, HDMI can output audio and video. I believe the DVI port can only transfer video, so no DVI will be able to have audio output.

 

The advantage of DVI is that it's a hybrid analog/digital interface. With a simple (<$5) adapter you can change it to VGA. DVI is also dual-link and supports 2560x1600 (30") displays.

Conversely, HDMI is digital only and single link (max of 1920x1200). However, it does have the advantage of carrying multi-channel digital audio.

DisplayPort is intented to be better than HDMI. It can drive a 2560x1600 monitor, and is supposed to carry audio as well (it just doesn't on the current crop of ThinkPads ( read this). However, the primary reason why Lenovo is using DisplayPort is that it's ROYALTY FREE. This makes DisplayPort cheaper for Lenovo to integrate (even though it costs the consumer more because DisplayPort devices are rare, cables are expensive, and converters are also pricey).

I wouldn't worry about the x4500 in Linux. In fact, it should even be better supported than the ATI3470/3650 in the T400/T500.

The dock could be challenging, but I don't have alot of experience with using one under Linux. It should work just fine though.

It will be true Digital Video coming out of the dock (the dock connector has a high bandwidth connection straight to the Mobo). You would either need a simple DVI cable or a DisplayPort to DVI adapter depending on the dock in question. The question is - in how many locations do you require digital video out? If it's only one or two places, then a dock (or two) with a smaller laptop is a good solution. However, if you need DV out in a variety of locations, you should get a laptop with the port onboard.

 

Thanks, guys! That gives me a lot of info and makes more sense. That sucks, that these companies are cutting corners and providing inferior options or ones that have issues and compatibility flaws. Not good. I wanted a laptop with these features because I feel like I upgraded my budget so I should be justified in choosing these features. If I was shopping for a consumer/affordable notebook under the $1K mark, I could live with only VGA or whatever options it came with. But, I just feel when you get to $1.5K or $2K territory, it should have these extras, DVI or HDMI, eSATA, DDR3, LED screen with high-res and so forth. Is that too much to ask? I guess my timing is off. If I were to wait a couple of years, maybe these features/options will all be standard? But, I kinda want to get sometime soon.

I wanted the digital output interface because I have an extra desktop at a relative's and I bought a new-ish LCD monitor for it since the CRT died. But, the desktop is an old Pentium III and it is constantly crashing or slow. I have wanted a notebook for a while now so I thought I would use it when visiting friends/family. Also, I think notebooks, for the most part are more fragile than desktops. Even if they're desktop replacements, you're going to move them. I wanted to have one if/when I start my own business. They're nice to have but I agreed with getting a business-type notebook so that means Lenovo, Dell (business line) or maybe Sony (I don't know who else). But, there is always some feature missing. I can compromise on some but there are some I don't think I should have to. The digital interface is one.

You stated:

Display Port seems like a cop-out for the companies to have a cheap way of adding a digital interface. There is little support for it if there are flaws with it as there's problems when equipped with a Montevina chipset? Obviously, someone screwed up? I don't mind if the industry pursues a standard as long as it works and doesn't cause problems. I agree, it's ridiculous that you have to buy an expensive adapter cable to have it work with other devices (other computers, monitors, TVs etc.). That is irritating and I remain undecided of how to choose.

I would mostly use the notebook in one place but the dock is an additional cost and to me, seems like it should be unnecessary. Why should I reward Lenovo for cheaping out when I can just choose a notebook (Co.) that has decided to add HDMI (in addition to Display Port)? Most notebooks nowadays are adding HDMI even the cheapo consumer notebooks. :-/

 

Ah, but theres the kicker. Display Port > HDMI. You can't blame lenovo for no displayport audio, since its not their fault, rather its intels. And I do not believe that the adapters to go from displayport to dvi are all that expensive, IIRC I saw one for 30 dollars.


And honestly, what buisness is going to buy monitors with hdmi only?

 

It's not really Lenovo's fault - DisplayPort being improperly implemented is Intel's fault, and all the business laptops out there are using DisplayPort for digital video out (except for the Thinkpad SL series, which is arguably a business laptop - they use HDMI).

 

Well, the T400 doesn't even have that.

You make a good point, though. Yet, they still jumped on the Display Port bandwagon and in reality, it really hasn't caught on. Therefore, there is a good reason to still add HDMI along with Display Port. In the long run, it might add up to more sales. I am sure there are features here and there that eventually persuade a potential buyer to one notebook over the other.

 

So, there is no good way around the sound issue except to use some audio cable through the headphone jack or something like that?

Seems like a PITA but I guess it's doable. As long as there is some way around it to get sound, it's acceptable. Not a deal breaker but an annoyance.

Btw, MNS, do you ever watch a movie or video on your T500? Are you satisfied with it?

 

$30 is way too expensive for a simple adapter (plus I think it's only Single link anyway, making it no better than HDMI). Conversely, a DVI→VGA adapter is $1.90 and a DVI→HDMI adapter is $3.16.

This is my point. Lenovo (or other OEM) gets to save the HDMI licensing fee (what is it anyway, $0.25 per laptop? less?), and the consumer has to pay $27 extra to convert DisplayPort to the format he/she needs. Apple is even worse as they use a mini-DisplayPort that No-one else uses, making their accessories even more expensive.

I would much rather have either VGA and HDMI, or just DVI (I can convert to either VGA or HDMI for <$5) than DisplayPort. For me, the advantages of DisplayPort simply do not exist.