T510 vs MBP 15"

Hi,

Let me apoligyese first if I offend anyone with the T510 with my post.

Well, I just got a T510 (brand new), i5, 4GB RAM, ....
The laptop runs great, it's not for myself but for someone where I work. I am in charge of buying the laptops/desktops and I though I should jump out of the casual (HP in my case), decided that for this guy I should get something better. So, I ended up with this T510 this friday, took it home to put all the company software on it, to have it ready for the guy on Monday.

What can I say, Win7 64b works like a charm on it. But (big BUT) the screen is terible compared to my (my own, not company laptop) old MBP. And, the size of thing is ... I think double than my MBP. Seriosly, I jumped to Lenovo to be above HP, but I think even HP makes thinner laptops than this. Or maybe they are the same in sizes, anyway for paying double than on a similar HP i5, etc, I expected more. The screen is weird, washed out (it's not the full HD one, maybe that one is better) but I only compare it to a 1440x900 non-glossy display MBP. Colors, everything looks better on the MBP.

I don't want to condemn or to complain too much, but how come a (MBP)laptop that is about 1-2 years old can be half size of a laptop that is brand NEW? I seriously thing Lenovo should watch is back, because their products are not cheap at all. Price-wise they are in the same class with Apple/Sony.

Please don't jump on me for this post, I seriously plan to change my Sony Z (company laptop) with a T420s when released, also I will get rid of the MBP, OSX doesn't do it for me. And I don't like Win7 on a MAC just because. I don't think I am an Apple freak whatsoever.

I honestly think and hope Lenovo can do better (better screens and less bulky), and they need to. They need to change, and FAST!
I can not buy MBP for business, OSX sucks on that side, and Win7 on a MAC still has drivers problems. But again, Lenovo doesn't give me a better choice at 15" either .. does it? Is somethign better at Lenovo than the T-series?

 

The dimensions of the machines are well documented on the web. The T510 is a half inch thicker. Not trivial. The other dimensions and weight are a toss up.

The screen quality differences are also well documented, especially here. Everyone that knows anything about both would have told you the screen quality edge is with the Mac so that should not have been a surprise. If you would have ordered the FHD screen, you probably would have been a lot happier.

Return the T510.

 

Well, you don't have to apologize. Not to any T510 owner. Not to any ThinkPad owner. Not to anyone here. As long as you follow the forum guidelines, you can raise any concerns.

While I can relate to your frustration, your statement will not have any practical affects! Companies come and go. Some keep growing. Some almost die and reinvent themselves. Some die quicky. Some die gradually because past aura still lingers.

Return the T510.

 

I guess each laptop has its own goods and bads.
And it is up to the buyer to choose what is right for him/her.
I didn't care much about the screen quality since I use an external LCD at my office and home.
When I am on the go, the screen quality doesn't matter much for me because it happens infrequently (about 15 hours per month) and lighting is not optimal anyway in those times (for example, outdoor or hotel room).
If I cannot use a LCD on my office/home desk and if I use my laptop mostly on the go, I might have not chosen mine.

I gave up finding a powerful-rugged-thin-light-beautiful-quiet laptop.

How is the laptop going to be used?

 

Since the thinkpad is not intended for graphics professionals, the standard display is not up to par with other media-centric laptops. That said, one of the best 15 inch displays on the market today is the FHD option for the T510 and W510 models. It's at least on par if not superior to the MBP offering.

 

Mainly office (Word, Excel, Outlook) work, some DWG (autocad 2d) viewing, not editing since I didn't install full license for ACAD. Reports, email .. basically whatever a manager must do. The one receiving this laptop will be a manager over about 100 people, I tried to get him a good laptop. I am not sure he will be extremely happy with it, I know he won't say anything cause it's not for him to choose/decide.
I am sure he will be able to do his job 100% on it, that's not the issue here.

I needed a better line of laptops, as I said in my original post I usually buy HP's for everyone, but recently I wanted to change a little what our employee get. So managers will get Lenovos, everyone else HPs. That's not to say an HP won't do the job, actually for way less I get a HP Probook that will handle Autocad Designs and projects much better than this T510i I just got. I actually hoped Lenovo is looking better (slimmer first, nicer design, HP are just ... regular laptops). It looks better but it's not slimmer.

As I asked in the first post, please advice me on what Lenovo should I get in order to look as an upper class laptop compared to an HP. I though I got the best with this T510i (not T510 as I originally said)

 

What was your budget for this machine Pampas?

 

About 1200 USD. Before tax.

I get the HPs around 8-900.

 

Do you also get 15" MacBook Pros for anything near $1200 ?

 

Oh, the T510 i is a "budget" notebook that is usually sold pre-configured (as is, no CTO) at so-called resellers. It is equipped with a low-end Intel Core i3-330M with integrated GMA HD graphics and a mediocre 1366x768 display.

I'm surprised that you paid 1200 USD plus tax for the T510i.

Among various notebooks of different brands, I use a T510 (i7 CPU and HD 10:9 1920x1080 display) and it is acceptable. Bulky, thick, on the heavy side, yes, but the palmrest cracking/squeaking is both cheap and annoying! Tightening the (loose) screws help a bit, but why, why does a customer have to do that to a "quality, premium-priced" notebook?

Have you considered the Dell Latitude E6510? Great for a manager. Seriously.

 

Mine was 1250 refurbished (apple warranty).
A brand new one starts at 1800.

But the second Lenovo that was in stock locally already jumped at 1550$.. And if you want you can easily configure a T510 to 2-3000 $$$$$ Maybe that one has a better screen, but it will be still as slim as mine here

 

In the future if you ask for feedback on a comparison, make sure it isn't apples and oranges.

 

halobox has a point: try not to mix apple and lychee.

 

OK.
I was .. dissapointed. I got used to the thin 15" mac and in the same time I had the impression Lenovo is very expensive too.. I had that feeling from configuring a T410s this days, ending around 2400$ with the SSD and bay-battery. At least one Lenovo I really like ..

 

Don't be too quick and too sure about that, or you will be ...

Again. Sight unseen, mixed with hopes and projections, will not be sight when seen.

 

I think you should compare machines in the same class. I would not compare a T410s and a 15" MacBook Pro. They are very different.

If thin is one of the key critieria, you are going to pay for thin. That's true across nearly all laptops including Apple, Lenovo, Sony, HP, Dell, etc. They know they can ask a premium and get it.

You can buy a lot of consumer laptops for $1200 that are relatively thin and sexy. A lot of those machines are aimed at college students. It sure limits your options for business laptops or anything thin and sexy.

 

I agree with this remark. Each of those laptops has it's own pros and cons - so you're left with making compromise that suits you best. But also I think a typical user really can't try out both then pick, like you would do with e.g. clothes. It's especially hard to go to a store and find a Thinkpad to play it (unlike Macs).

 

If you were looking for a machine with thin profile and awesome looking LCD, I think you might have made a wrong decision.

 

Dear Pampas, for your reference, during the Thanksgiving sale, I managed to order the T510 (4313CTO) with FHD (1920x1080) screen, i5, Optimus graphics, Bluetooth, fingerprint reader, and other standard options for $1277 with taxes and shipping included. If you can wait, maybe there'll be another sale.

 

Damn good price for that config.

 

What? What, what?
Do you think I won't like the T410s, actually the T420s? Why ? It seems to be much slimmer than the T510, all the specs are up to date (or will be) and .. I don't see any reason.

Well, do you have the same feeling as KASO that the T410s/T420s is not what I am looking for?

Common people, I wanna get rid of the Mac, I need a great laptop to replace it, I am sure I can find something in the same league, even better. It has to be. From what I read online T420s should be it .. I don't do photo editing, I don't need the 99% ADOBE colors, only a nice display. If not, what else? Thin and powerful?
As Unreal said, there are not many places to try a Lenovo for like an hour or so, like you can try a mac.

 

Excellent price for such a machine .. with tax and all .. wow !

and

Welcome on this forum, it says POST 1

 

CDW in Vernon Hills has all the current Thinkpads for demo.

 

I used to work a lot with CDW, but can't right now.
I currently am in Europe, eastern europe. Believe me, besides Sony and Apple stores, nothing else hits this places in the same style/way, to actually have the laptops on display. Well, maybe some dell/hp or cheaper laptops.

This forum and other websites with reviews are extremely important in a situation like this.. with people helping out.

 

"This forum and other websites with reviews are extremely important in a situation like this.. with people helping out."

There is no "helping out". Either the machine is in warranty or not. If it is under warranty you won't loose anything but shipping + repair time.
If it's not in warranty, either you will have to pay for repair, use it "as is" or get a new machine. I have a feeling the machine will not stay "as is" very long.

Renee

 

It's your money, pampas. You are free to get excited by looking at photos and numbers.

People who post in this sub-forum own/use ThinkPads (and maybe notebooks by other manufacturers) and can share with you their experiences with ThinkPads, either positive or negative. We try not to identify with a tool. Life is too short for that.

I have at my disposal, in addition to notebooks by Apple, HP and Dell, these current-generation ThinkPads: X201, T410, T410s, T510, W510. Each of these tools have its own pluses and minuses, by itself, and in comparison to comparable products.

I have absolutely no idea what a T420s is in order to share with you my views of it. You are welcome to fall in love with an abstract idea.

 

I provided the context for my reply. There is a balance between features and price. $1200 constrains the balance. If you have an unlimited budget, they you can get whatever feature is important to you.

 

The T510i is already returned, as of today. I did not pay any restocking fee. I will get something else, Lenovo or whatever.

I can change the buget to unlimited, money is not a problem, the budget was just .. for planing purposes. If that amount doesn't cut it I can go to 2000$. I spent on a Z about that amount, so it won't be my first expensive toy.

In this case, what would you guys recomend, basically whatever the MBP 15" is (power/speed, slim/mobility, long battery life, great costumer service, something light/lighter), with a screen between 13-15. Maybe 14" to stay in the middle. I put my eyes on T410s, then decided to get the t420s .... but some of you disagree?

 

Considering this is available next month, it would certainly be a candidate on my shopping list to go see and fondle.

Info at news SAMSUNG

 

I am a little scared of the 1.4 CPU, altough goes up to 2.3Ghz, I am not sure how well will it work compared to my (kinda old now) core2duo 2.66Ghz.

Key Specs:
• CPU: Second Generation Intel® CoreTM i5 Processor 2537M (1.40 GHz, 3MB; turbo up to 2.3 GHz)

 

Without budget constraints or a want for good price/performance ratio, the 15" Macbook Pro is unrivaled. In terms of profile, screen, battery life and trackpad there is no Windows alternative that beats it in a single package while matching it in power.

Since those things are what you seem to be after, no reason to not buy what clearly fits your needs best.

 

Core i5 is based on a much more efficient microarchitecture and can adaptively scale itself up ("turbo boost") when necessary. Second-generation i5 is even more efficient. Core 2 Duo cannot come close. Clock speed is only one factor. (A guy with long leg can cover greater distance with less steps, to use a rough example. Spinning hard does not always mean being productive.)

 

I was just passing by CDW so I stopped in to look at the T410s again. I took my T400 along for a side-side comparison. Few notes:

-It is lighter no doubt (~1lb), but having them both in my hands it just doesn't feel like a significant difference. Nothing like how much lighter the X301 was.

-The thickness difference between it and the T400 is significant. Much more than I expected and more than that fraction of an inch indicates on paper.

-The screen isn't horrendous at all for a business machine. Colors are a bit washed out, but black just doesn't exist on that panel. It's very obvious why the contrast ratio is so bad. Colors are deeper in the T400 LG led screen and black, while probably not as good as other consumer laptops with glossy screens, is a lot darker. I did the Win 7 gamma calibration in the T410s just as I have in the T400.

I was recently thinking about a T410s since I've come across some very good deals on new machines lately. But today convinced me that it's not a machine that's worth it. Imho you're effectively paying much more for a marginally lighter and thinner machine, but also a craptacular screen (only if you do any photo work or watch movies on it) and 2-2.5hrs less run time (comapred to T400 with 6-cell).

My advice is to either get the MBP or wait and see if Lenovo has addressed the T410s' weaknesses in the T420s. I really hope they do. Sandy Bridge should address power consumption issues, all Lenovo needs to have done is use a decent screen. The T4x0s would easily be the perfect machine if so.

 

You're measuring blacks on a 14" laptop LCD? LOL They aren't 55" Samsung Series 8000 LED high def televisions.

The problem with making any rational recommendation right now is timing. Intel just announced the details of their CPU and SSD line. That means OEMs are busy crafting machines and bringing them to market. That market is going to changing drastically the next 6 months, especially when you throw in the slate devices.

If Lenovo is smart, they'll trim the fat (thickness) across the entire ThinkPad T and W line. Add better battery life and some IPS screen options and the ThinkPad's will be back in the game.

If they don't and the competition does, they can kiss that 20+ percent market share increase goodbye. People aren't stupid.

 

When reviewers and user complainers about crap poor contrast ratio in Lenovo panels where do you think that comes from. In an ideal world everyone would use an external monitorw when not doing work or school related stuff. But that isn't practical for me so I end up using the laptop for doing everything and watching everything except live sports.

My point in the last post is that the T410s is heavily compromised to bring that svelter package. People should seriously look at their usage if they need a decent display or battery life.

We've been complaining about these screens for a few product generations now; so they're either stupid or just don't give a sht about catering to the consumer market with the Thinkpad line or people outside forums don't really care either. 20% of the consumer market share may not be worth the supply chain cost to them.

We can only hope the T4x0s issues have been resolved. Intel is doing most of the work for them with the chipset and making packaging easier with the mSATA ssd. 16:9 screens repulse me but I'll gladly use one if it improves on status quo. It should be cake this time.

 

That. Those of us who yearn for high quality screens on all thinkpads are probably not even 20% of the market. Probably a LOT less. Why should they give a crap, most people will still buy thinkpads, because MS office doesn't give a crap about your color reproduction etc etc.

 

Well, there's a big difference in the quality of my T61p screen, and the screens on the T410. We don't buy the T510 so I haven't seen them. The difference is significant enough that if enough corporate clients complain, I won't recommend them. And trust me, that will have a material impact to their bottom line and market share.

Lenovo has enjoyed some solid double digit growth but if they think they can ignore customer requests and complaints, "think" again.

I strongly believe if they don't improve, it's going to hurt them.

 

Hi Pampas:

I'm a position to accurately answer your question since I have a Lenovo T510 and my wife has the MBP15.

Dimensions (size & weight): MBP
Display: Lenovo T510 (comparing FHD displays)
Speed: Equal (the graphics of the MBP is superior from what I hear)
Battery Life: Equal (I have the 9 cell battery on my T510)
Keyboard: Lenovo T510 (no flex and great key feel/travel)
Pad: MBP (Yeah nothing beats the trackpad of the MBP)
OS: That's your choice (Windows 7 far more stable than Vista).
Optical Drive: Lenovo (you can install a Blu-Ray Player, like I did).
Connectivity: Equal (both have display port, usb, firewire, etc)
Biometric: Lenovo (MBP doesn't have it)
Noise: MBP (slightly quieter)

What is God annoying about my T510 is that horrid CPU whine that Apple has solved in its latest MBP notebooks. The CPU whine is not noticeable in a regular environment, but in an office or a quiet classroom, it will draw attention. If the MBP had the Lenovo keyboard, a biometric reader and a BD-Rom, it would be the "perfect" machine.

C.

 

Hopefully the new thinkpad screen will be better, I already hear great thing on review of the u260, I hope they uses the screen from this same manufacturer.

 

Or rather, if Thinkpad had a better screen, IT would be a perfect machine.

 

Exactly. Or if the W510 with the FHD screen was .5 inch thinner and 2 pounds lighter IT would be the perfect machine. At least for me.

 

all you said above + optimus is i'll be all over it

 

T510 FHD is already a perfect machine for me. What I want to know is when are they going to fix that annoying CPU whine. *Fingers crossed for the T520*

 

CPU whine is an aspect of Perfection, as is palmrest creaking.

And what will be the Perfect Price for the Perfect Machine? $5000?

 

I'd pay up $3000 for the Perfect Machine.