T540p / 3K Panel Pros and Cons

I have posted on several threads expressing my concerns for the following topics and I believe it's time for a summary:

1. Display Panel Specs and Appropriateness for Work Related Tasks
2. CPU?GPU Heat Issues as it is related to the Laptops External Temps
3. Battery Life and CPU/GPU Temps as it pertains to display panel selection

I am pursuing this conversation because I am still trying to find a reason to buy the T540p which is as close to a mobile workstation as possible and has what I need except for the W540 which is not out in the US yet. Also the T540p is more closely related to the W540 The T540p and the W540 use the same Lenovo Service Training Video so I consider the T540p as closer to a mobile workstation than not. The following is what I have discerned:

T540p Pros for those who want mostly a mobile workstation:

1. Per my previously posted thread review URL links:the reviews show that the T540p's external case temps under a 30 minute stress do not exceed 101 F (38.8 C)(I7-4600m) which is acceptable based on my reading many reviews of highend gaming laptops. and seems to run cooler than the T440p which was tested by the same reviewer using the same test with a I7-4700MQ with max keyboard and backside temps reaching 113 F (45 C). Gaming reviewer like to shoot for around 95 F(35 C) external case temps but realize it is hard to do with Haswell. Heat degredates electronic equip so for me the larger Heatsink/heatpipe/Fan assembly in the T540p is a plus as far as length of laptop life is concerned.

2. The 15.5 or 15.6 inch screen is a plus for those of us who actually bring the laptop on location and want a larger screen while using an Excel spreadsheet. This is not a concern for those who use it as a desktop replacement. I on the other hand have separate desktops. Plus my desktop monitors are all IPS or PVA panels with 16:10 aspect ratios, 24 and 30 inch. So a 14 inch panel with 16:9 aspect seems really small. Even a 15.6 inch (16:9) is noticable smaller than a 15.6 inch (16:10). I suppose I don't like the industries panel choices these days. I old enough to realize that panel tech History started With TN then went to IPS and PVA then back to TN and now mostly using AHVA except for highend phone, tablets and rMBP's or high end TV's which use even better specs. IE: TN panel tech is unaccepatable for me going forward. Why should laptops be treated with mostly TN panel Technology.

3. Numeric keypad if you are in to spreadsheets.

Cons

1. There are no reliable review or panel spec information at all concering the Panasonic VVX16T028J00. I have relentlesly seached the IBM/Lenovo Parts data base with no results and I have searched for Panasonic panels at panel seach engines such as panelook.com and others includinge reverse lookups. NO RESULTS! But I have been able to get results to the other HD and FHD panels used in the T540p, T440p and T440s. The IBM Parts Maintanence Retail store website which gives results for most FRU part #'s did not have the Panasonic Lenovo FRU part number during lookup/search.

2. As I have shown in previous threads the FHD Panel used in the T540p and likely the W540 is in fact a TN panel with specs that are below the FHD panel used in last years W530 and is not acceptable in my view for 2013-2014 new products.

3. I have not see any screenshots/Pics of the 3K panel with different resolution settings in which I was certain that the pics were acually the T540p because the posted pics that I reviewed in a different thread the bezel area and area around the bezel were pitch black. You couldn't even tell if it was a laptop, it could have been 30 inch monitors for all I know.
We need to see additional Pic's from owners that clearly show the laptop T540p logo and along with using some word docs with around #11 or 12 font size or a full page PDF file where you can see 1 whole page at a time and maybe 2 docs side by side on the same panel view. Some viewers may think I am asking too much but I believe there are plenty of owners who understand and care about these issues enough to make their thoughts known.

4.Even if it turns out that the 3K panel is reasonalbly scalable using different resolutions and higher scaling, there are no reviews concering battery life or temperature readings when using the 3K panel. The 2 Japanese reviews that I have found pertaining to battery life and Temperature were both using the FHD panel not the 3K panel. If the 3k panel causes the CPU/GPU to overwork under stress and reach upper temp limits the CPU may have throttleling issues where there might not be any with a HD or FHD display panel.

So even though I very much want to pull the trigger on a T540p with the 3K panel(the FHD option is out of the question) there is no way to be vaguely certain that the set-up will prove worthy to keep until 2020 when windows 7 is no longer supported. (Thats the quality that I expect but I will compromise as long as I have the facts!). And yes. my desktops are each 5 yrs old and I have a 2004 Dell 8600 Inspiron that still runs well but I don't use it anymore. I hope that I don't have to settle for the 14 inch T440p as I want a 15.6 inch panel that is servicable over several years.

So I'm hoping that owners of the T540p with the 3K panel will post as many panel pics as possible before the sales period is over and make note of the resolution and scaling used for each pic.
Also some comments about external case Temps ( a Temperature Laser Gun is best) and battery life while stressing the T540p using a 3K panel. Thanks

 

Can you point me to where these pics were posted?

 

Sure: It was in the thread titled "Re: T540p!!!"

 

Yeah, I'm faking the pics j/a. Pics pulled.

 

I have continued to try and find spec info about the Panasonic 3K display panel and I continue to not even find one news or review article about it's existance other than from Lenovo related press releases. In fact if you look for 15.5 inch panel displays at panelook.com or at tftcentral.co.uk there are not any Mfg's in existence that are making 15.5 inch displays as listed on the T540p PSREF. I realize it's new but even Panasonic's websites have nothing about it and there are no other press releases. So could someone else please try to find some independent confirmation of this panel's existance. Lenovo has already incorrectly listed the T440p FHD and the T540p FHD as IPS panels on their website sales" spec" link (upper tab next to features).

Also, as a 1st Step could a T540p owner please post a screenshot pic of the Monitor description which should be in the "advanced display properties settings". It should state that is is a Panasonic or other Brand unless they did not load any specific drivers or color profiles and everything is generic which wouldn't satisfy me.

Also, I believe I have seen links to apps that are downloadable that can determine all of the pertinent specs about a panel but I must not have kept the link. Maybe a T540p owner might be interested in that project. For now, I can't find the link for such an app.

I am sorry that you feel that way and that you thought it best to pull down your Pics. I figured you might repost them with a little more lighting so we could see the laptop itself. I do understand how you might mis-interpret my intentions as I realize that I could have stated my concerns in a better fashion.

None-the-less, there are questions about the 3K panel that remain and the answers are not transparent yet!

 

We are seeing the first generation of high-res panels now. A lot of money, at last, have been devoted to small screen technology. With current tendency of improving hi-res screens not only in ppi (where the limit of usefulness has been reached), but also in brightness, color reproduction etc (as can be evidenced in Nexus 2012 vs Nexus 2013, or Surface Pro 1 vs Surface Pro 2). If anything is guaranteed by 2020, is that you will regard that T540p 3K screen in 2020p as power hungry, dark (hardly outdoors) and of poor quality.

Just buy it, see for yourself, and return it if not up to your standards, especially as Lenovo has apparently abandoned their 15% restocking fee. There are many more important, and personal, things in a laptop than its 3K (or 9K or 1200K) screen, IMO. If I had such lengthy and specific requirements, and for some things I do, I'd definitely not trust anybody elses opinion on it, no matter if measured with thermal gun or not

 

My list isn't long at this point and time, I just need to see some information (specs) to confirm that the Panasonic panel actually exist and is not Misbranded because I have spent a lot of time trying to confirm it's existence and I challege anyone to find and post specs that are independent and not a rehash old T540 Release Date news articles. I would like to find some Panasonic news articles confirming it's existence. How about a "Display Properties" screenshot with the description of the panel. If the 3K panel is as good as my desktop monitors (IPS and PVA) and can be scaled easily I am certain that I will be satisfied with the 3K panel in 2020. I have read that Windows 8 does not scale nearly as well as OSx and that many of the Apple store apps are coded to scale properly on the rMBP retina panel but that most apps at the Microsoft store are not coded properly to scale a 3K panel. I will be using Win 7. I won't buy Apple products and prefer to put pressure on PC vendors to disclose pertinent spec info as well as to build their larger laptops with more attention to function over style. Not everyone wants an Ultrabook. I will eventually buy the T540p with 3K once I'm convinced that the 3K is manageable otherwise I will relunctantly buy the T440p with FHD/AHVA or even better the W540 if it hopefully comes with a FHD IPS/AHVA panel (that would be perfect). I am also quite certain that if I stay on this issue that my persistence will speed up the disclosure process concerning what consumers should expect concerning this particular panel.

For those of you who are trying to decide whether to buy T540p or a W540 then maybe we should all wait for the W540. This is because there is a small possibility that Lenovo will put a FHD (IPS/AHVA) panel in the W540 instead of the same FHD TN panel used in the T540p. I am only speculating because the W530 had and advanced FHD TN panel with 95% color gamut. So, it's possible that the above scenerio might play out if enough customers vote with their $'s and pocketbooks.

 

ips panel definitions from lenovo drivers
Lenovo ThinkPad
and some info from psref about fhd screens:
S531, S540, E540: 15.6" (396mm) FHD (1920x1080) color, anti-glare, LED backlight, 300 nits, 16:9 aspect ratio
L540, T540p: 15.6" (396mm) FHD (1920x1080) color, anti-glare, LED backlight, 300 nits, 16:9 aspect ratio, 500:1 contrast ratio
T530\W530: 15.6" (396mm) Full HD (1920x1080) color, anti-glare, LED backlight, 270 nits, 16:9 aspect ratio, 500:1 contrast ratio, 95% Gamut

according to spec it seems that panel for t540p/l540 not worse than previously installed in 530 series. fhd panels in e/s series - seems to be less advanced

but all off currently specified in tabook fhd screens are TN (imho)

 

My interpretation of the W530 FHD is that the panel is described differently than any of the other panels. It is an advanced TN panel with 95% color gamut to be used in the ISV Certified W530 for CAD and other similarly demanding programs. The reviews for the W530 FHD panel have been good since release. Based on all available information that I have read so far(psref and parts list), the FHD panels in the T540p are not the same because Lenovo considers it a business laptop and not a mobile workstation. As long as Intel's pushes Ultrabooks and Microsoft pushes Windows 8 and Apple continues to be successful those of us who want to buy a lower-end mobile work station will continue to each year to lose functional features that are replaced with stylish features that are more like Ultrabooks. Soon only HP and Dell will have true mobile workstations that are very expensive.
For instance, this year we lost the 1. enhanced ultrabay adaptor 12.7mm 2. latch 3. loved touchpad with buttons 4. mute button and the T540p skipped over FHD IPS panel in favor of 3K which favors movies and gaming not work. How far will the vender go to lessen the cost and functional features in order to maintain increased profit quarter after quarter and continue to tell us users who want to maintain full functions that that is what the public(we) wants. Soon we will have to jump from the T440s to the W540 with nothing in between

By the way, for those of you who plan on keeping your T540p or W540 or T440p I would buy a spare M series Mobile CPU because at some point Intel will stop producing these and most likely a lot quicker than you think. Once the Haswell refresh hits followed by Broadwell we will be lucky if there are any Mobile (M) CPU replacement available. Even if there are mobile M series Broadwells, they won't fit. If the market allows it Intel will only make Ultra Series CPU's that are imbedded and not replaceable. I you buy this years model and want to future proof it then the only item that you won't be able to get after a couple of years at EBay will likely be the CPU.

 

Has anyone tried replacing their stock laptop screen?

What I mean is ordering one from ebay or laptopscreens.com and replacing the low quality panel with a better one:

https://www.laptopscreen.com/English/model/IBM-Lenovo/THINKPAD T540P SERIES/

This site offers a 1920x1080 IPS panel for $100.

I personally have never done this before. Would it make sense to buy the T540p with stock 1366x768 panel and then buying an aftermarket screen and performing the replacement myself?

Lenovo is charging $170 for a 1920x1080 TN panel compared to the 1920x1080 IPS for $100cad at laptopscreens.com.

What do you guys think? Smart? Stupid?

 

you void the warranty on a brand new laptop, just something to consider.

 

can you please repeate or quote your info from "previous thread" with detailed data(p/n, specsheet, measurments) & it sources(as url's or screenshots with highlights), regarding 540 series FHD panel is only TN and worse than 530 FHD TN panel
pls, make it as short as possible
just proofs, no IMHOs or discussions pls )

 

yes the fhd screens of the T540 and the W540 are tn panels :/ you can read it on every site that sells these laptops

..and it sucks, i would't even take the 3k resolution screens for free if i could have fhd ips

 

You void the warranty only for the part you are changing yourself. At least this is how it is in Central Europe and since the warranty is international it should be the same everywhere.

 

The T540p and W540 on Lenovo Australia are listed with FHD IPS displays: ThinkPad W540 | Mobile Workstation || Lenovo Australia

Maybe Lenovo sells them with TN panels in other countries but I am sure that FHD IPS models do exist.

 

The warranty on ThinkPads is not international by default, it depends on the model number.

Furthermore, not all service levels are available in all countries/regions.

As for swapping the screen on your own...IF Lenovo were to figure out that you did so in the first place, they would likely go out of their way to shoot down any warranty claim.

On an expensive machine such as T/W series unit, I wouldn't do it.

 

I talked to a representative particularly about the screen. I wanted to change the HD+ to FHD on T440p. They reassured me twice that it will void only the warranty on the screen. Every other part will still have the warranty. All this is in Lithuania (Eastern/Central Europe). This btw is for a model with international warranty.

 

See the following Link and look up the W540 and the T540p. Once you pick your machine and reach the next link you can click the tabs at the top to see possible configurations.

Lenovo Solutions Center

The T540p and the W540 do not come with IPS FHD panels and only the 3K panel is IPS. Lenovo's sales websites are incorrect since release dates and have it seems to knowingly failed to correct these misbranded machines. The PSREF for the T540p also does not indicate that the FHD panel is IPS. The PSREF for the W540 has not been released yet to back up the above link. The FHD panels are certainly planned at this point to be TN panels. IMHO the 3K panel is being pushed to force users toward Windows 8.1 and only to use Microsoft Store approved applications hopefully coded to work on a 3K 15 inch panel(maybe!!!). At this point in time other high end 3rd party programs that you may use will not scale well on the 3K panel. I plan on staying with Windows 7 until Windows 9(hopefully) is released for Desktops and Laptops and leave the Windows 8 mobile UI for phone and tablets. In the mean time Microsoft and its partners continue to put form over function. We need to hold out and stay on Windows 7. After Oct 2014 you will no longer be able to get the Windows 7 downgrade from Windows 8 pro. I bought 3 Windows 7 ultimates(full version) to hold me over through 2020.

 

I don't doubt that they've told you that. However...

Having read hundreds (and I'm being kind here) of posts on LF regarding warranty getting denied for just about any reason imaginable, I can't recommend following that route.

What one is told over the phone and what they experience in the real-life situation are two entirely different things many a times.

To be perfectly clear on one thing: I've never had a Lenovo (or any other laptop) serviced in Lithuania. My experiences are based on over a decade of dealing with IBM/Lenovo/Flextronics/whoever in U.S. and parts of Western Europe.

My only advice to anyone contemplating this approach is to be cautious and presume the worst possible outcome.

Good luck.

 

Well, it could be an error on the website of course. If it is then Lenovo will have some pissed customers to deal with.

About windows applications on 3K displays:
You don't need Windows 8 to change dpi settings and you don't need an Windows Store approval to write scalable UIs. Mircrosoft's .NET Framwork has native support for UIs that scale well with different dpi settings since version 3.0 (late 2006). If developers don't find it necessary to update their applications then so be it. Can't really blame MS for advertising applications with scalable UIs on their Windows Store.

 

If I had a nickel for every time Lenovo's marketing materials did not match the shipping product. Any one that's been buying Thinkpads for a while knows this to be a truth.

"If it is then Lenovo will have some pissed customers to deal with."

Yes, this happens with almost every new product they launch it seems. Over promise, delay the shipping, promise a faster date, delay again, etc. etc. Nothing new here, you just get used to it. Only to get a machine that probably won't match the specs you were hoping for. It's why we love them...

 

Let's not forget that X1C was originally advertised as having an IPS screen and then......ooops. Sorry. No.

I'd be willing to bet that the FHD version of these panels are all the same, non-IPS and likely worse than what was seen on previous models since the original LCD (in its V4 revision) was discontinued...

Windows in any shape and form is still years behind OSX when it comes to scaling, and I'm really not a Mac fan.

On the bright side, it's still (slightly) better than Linux.

My take would be that anyone who considers buying one of 3K panels should anticipate running it at native resolution and 100%...if your eyes can't take that, just don't buy it.

 

Yes you are right, OSX is way ahead of Win 7 and 8.0 and even 8.1 which from what I've read has made a failed attempt to improve its scaling and rendering and continues to be not nearly as automated and elegant as OSX. Regardless, I will stick with a PC. I am finished griping and feel better and will try to make a decision.

I'm trying to convince myself to get the T540p 3K setup. I have a long HX changing to lower resolutions and using 125% scaling because vision is not the greatest. So why do you say to just not buy it??

Based on my calculations, I run my Desktops with around 80 DPI on a 30 " monitor and a Laptop at 106 DPI on 15.4" screen. I can handle higher DPI but I'm not sure how much higher on a 15.5" panel. The DPI on the native 3K panel is 213 DPI. If you 1st scale it to 125%, that shouldn't cause much loss of sharpness in most apps. Then my next idea is to ask if the 1920x1080 choice is available because it is proportional to 2880x1620 and would stretch the window equally in each direction and not cause the use of partial pixel when rendering(less fuzziness). The next proportional step down would be 1600x900 but I suspect that this resolution would be just a stressfull as the native resolution for me. Can someone post a pic using 125% scaling with 1920x1080 resolution with the 3k panel using a PDF file on full page view??

 

A couple of things here...

I'm pretty sure that the panel itself is marvelous, although I haven't seen it myself.

Having said that, if the OS doesn't support the scaling (presuming a user with less-than-perfect eyesight who can't take 213DPI on 24/7/365 basis) in the manner I need it to, that beautiful screen becomes worthless. To me, that is. And I'm certain that I'm far from being the only one.

I'll take a FHD panel and run it at native resolution. It's really that simple.

Obviously, to each his/hers own.

 

I understand your points, but if you saw the 3k panel running at FHD / 100% scaling vs a FHD TN Panel I imagine you'd change your mind

The key is to not scale the fonts, that just introduces problems with some apps, the key is to just reduce the resolution to what you're comfortable with scaling at 100%. On the 3k display the other 2 super sharp options are FHD and 1600x900. I would guess if you drop down to 1600x900 you could probably read it from 10 feet away.

A lot of people may not need the sharpness and clarity though. Lenovo has sold a ton of Thinkpads with TN screens for years, so obviously not everyone needs IPS so to each is own, it's great that we have options. I just with Lenovo didn't drop down the quality of the FHD to something lower than that which was on the T530, that's just lame.

I will say though that hi-res displays are all the rage, so by getting the 3k display you might lock in a little longevity to the laptop as well.

 

I understand what you're saying.

My point is that if one runs the show this way there's no point in having a 3K panel to begin with, in my opinion.

Which doesn't matter since I won't be buying a ThinkPad ever again.

Enjoy yours.

 

Thats been my main point of my complaints from the beginning concerning the 3K panel. While it may be OK for Gaming Laptops or Ultrabooks it shouldn't exist on a 15.5" display laptops used mostly for Office apps. If the advice is to change the resolution from 3K to FHD then why not just start out with a high quality FHD IPS panel to begin with. Lenovo Dropped the Ball here. Also, with the correct discrete GPU you should be able to set 3K resolution (while keeping the laptop at FHD native) on one of your larger external monitors and get the best of both worlds on the laptop display and the external monitor. Oh, but perhaps they also forgot about that and didn't set up the configuration in the right way to accomplish that. From what I've read you can only accomplish that probably while charging(AC) and it won't stick if you reboot which means you have to re-do your settings.

A different way to look at the issue is by DPI which inversely affects Font Size given constant variables when looking at a 15.5" panel. The T540p and W540 3K panel has a DPI of 213 and last years W530 HD+ (1600x900) panel has a DPI of 118. The difference between 213 and 118 is 80%. So for those users who change from a HD+ panel to a 3K panel (15.5") can expect their Font size to shrink by 80% whithout any adjustments with 100% scaling at native resolution.

But, if Lenovo had offered a FHD IPS panel as the top option, it's DPI would be 148 at 100% scaling at native resolution which would seem to be a better compromise and any engineer or Tech Co. thats worth their salt would have known that a DPI of 148 would be better compromise for the end user which make me wonder what are Lenovo's priorities.

So, based on the above there no point in having a 15.x" 3K panel because in practicality it is harder to deal with since Windows and Lenux can not perform auto-scaling elegantly.

The T540p still has the best feature package for the money overall but the screw-up with the 3k IPS panel and the non-ISP FHD TN panel choices make it impaired.

 

Well, or maybe they were just able to calculate those numbers correctly ... to shrink the font size by 80% you would need a 5 times higher resolution than 1600x900 (what would be 8000x4500). But the 3K resolution (2880 x 1620) is not even twice as high as HD+. So the font size will be decreased by about 45%.

 

You are incorrect. DPI controls Font size and DPI is controlled by Panel size and Resolution and I guess I will put a few links to help explain:

1. DPI Calculator

2. Screen Dimensions Calculator

3. https://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/RR-01-23-Bridgeman.pdf

Read the 1st few pages of the PDF file.
A given DPI affects font size across all panel sizes equally (while using a different resolution on each size panel to achieve equal DPI) and produces the same font size on each panel. The only thing that changes accross using the same DPI accross 2 different sized panels with the same resolution is that on the smaller panel you may have scroll bars while the larger panel has more space so scroll bars mighy not be needed. [/B

It just doesn't work the way you think it does and if I'm incorrect I'm still a lot closer than your analysis. The fact is that the issue is hard to understand and requires research. I could be wrong but I haven't seen any Notebook Guru's or High Rep member dispute me yet.

 

This msdn article gives a little insight into how Windows handles font sizes: DPI and Device-Independent Pixels (Windows)

 

The following 2 links are negative reviews concerning Windows 8.1's scaling abilities and it's not likely to improve because the scaling technology is the same(but a little improved) as it always was in Vista and because it is outdated it will never be as good as OSX becaue MS would have already fixed it. They will have to start from scratch with a differerent approach.

1. Windows 8.1 scaling: why you shouldn't bother getting excited | News | TechRadar

2. In Blue: Automatic Desktop Display Scaling | Windows 8 content from Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows

By the way when it comes to controversial subject matters MS always responds in convoluted manner that leaves the reader with nothing. Otherwise, they do a good job explaining issues that are not controversial in the publics eye and can be explained objectively.

The fact that no one has answered my request to post a screenshot pic using the T540p 3K panel set to a reasonalble resolution of around 1920x1080 say at 100% and 125% scaling using a "full page view of a PDF doc" tell me that the Guru's who run this forum do not want to because the resulting screenshot would likely be negatively revealing.

 

The TechRadar article has as much information as a 15 second youtube video. It's not worth reading but then again it's only 15 seconds. If they at least gave a few examples of what didn't scale in Windows 8. The other article hammers on Windows 8.1 beta being unable to scale two displays independently. I can't test this feature in the release build of Windows 8.1 (don't have it) but if it's still bugged then of course it sucks for everyone who wanted to use that feature. However I guess that it would be enough for many users if scaling worked on the one display that's built into the notebook.

What many people don't get is that working dpi scaling is highly dependent on application developers. I've only scratched the very surface of dpi aware UI development but as far as I can see the tools are there. It is a matter of developers finding it necessary to update their UI.

You can compare CPU-Z and GPU-Z for a quick demo:
At 100% both applications look pretty much the same. At 150% CPU-Z is scaled but blurry whereas GPU-Z looks great. It's actually more pleasant to read the UI of GPU-Z at 150% than it is at 100% on a 23.5" FHD display. I tested it on Windows 7 Pro with CPU-Z 1.62.0 x64 and GPU-Z 0.6.6.

 

I agree the articles are specific and not robust. I agree that software developers can and will eventually code software to adapt to the hardware and os used. I plan on staying on Win 7 for a long while and I know how to tweak it inside and out. But getting back to the point about the panel hardware choice that lenovo made, 3K IPS istead of FHD IPS, I am worried that with my less than optimun eyesight I will have trouble tweaking a 15.x inch FHD panel much less a 3K panel. I want IPS or equivalent AHVA.

There are not many owners speaking up for the 3K panel(or pics) when it comes to Font Size when running office programs like excel, word and adoble reader(no pics) in full page views along with showing how big the scroll bars become when reducing resolution or increasing scaling on the 3K panel. In the old days 96 DPI was the acceppted goal then around 142 became acceptable. Also as newer higher Resolution panels became available the panel sizes usually became larger to maintain the 142 DPI target. The 3K DPI at native is 213. Now, the venders just want to shrink everthing but in many cases use cheap panel parts. They are no longer thinking about "Accessibility Options" for older viewers with poor eyesight like in the past. I want proof before I buy, and I'm worried that the proof is not available. Even if the software developers come through will the software be backwards compatible with Windows 7?? If not, then I suspect that the jump past 15.x FHD IPS in favor of 3K IPS is a tactic to get users to switch to Windows 8.1 because of Win 8.1 improved scaling over 8.0. Don't get me wrong, I'm certain that thes 3k 15.x panels would make great Windows 8.1 touch tablets but I don't believe it's the correct choice for mobile work stations or office laptops. Also MS has not shown that they can master seamless Auto-scaling like with OSX.

Lastly, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Win 7 better at scaling that win 8.0 and then 8.1 improves 8.0. So is 8.1 better at scaling than Win 7??

 

Well, yes, the 3K panel is pointless in the regard that you're not using the 3K of resolution, however, if that's the only way I can get an IPS panel then it's worth it to me. But that's just my preference for IPS, every one has the own likes/dislikes. I tremendously dislike their omission of the dedicated trackpoint buttons, that may also seal Lenovo's fate with me as well, the jury is still out on that one. Others may not mind...

That and the fact that they changed the Power adapter which renders useless generations of power adapters that came before it that a lot of people have a collection of. I probably have 6-8 power adapters between my T60p up to my X230t that are all interchangeable.

And the fact that they changed the Ultrabay adapter, again.

And the fact that they changed the Dock, rendering my $300 "Advanced" dock obsolete and that adds to the cost of buying a new one.

Between having to buy not only the T540p, but the upgraded memory, new dock, new ultrabay adapter, I'm looking at an additional $400. I'm not actually sure it's worth it over say a W530 Quad Core with FHD.

And did I mention they removed the Trackpoint Buttons?

Keep in mind the T530/W530 and T4x series didn't even offer IPS, at least they are moving in the right direction. Although I imagine it's against their will. I would bet the only reason they're offering IPS now is because everyone else is. They've never made it a priority before even on their "Premium Thinkpad" line. That should tell you all you need to know. It sounds like maybe you should consider a mac?

 

Heh...did you bother reading what my title/location (above and below the avatar) say?

I dished out $4K for a top-end A31p a decade ago without thinking twice about it, mostly because of the gorgeous IPS FlexView UXGA LCD. I still own several IPS/AFFS-equipped ThinkPads and FrankenPads.

Had the Lenovo not changed the keyboard layout for the *30 series I would've most likely be in the same boat as you, weighing pros and cons of a 3K panel which I personally will never be able to use at its native resolution...

They've made it easy for me though.

The best of luck with your new ThinkPad.

 

Possible good news. It seem that the W540 Australia website is now showing the FHD panel as an IPS panel on all pages and even on the checkout page. I do not believe the checkout page showed IPS when it was 1st released because I checked(Could be wrong,maybe). Lenovo will have sometimes have inacurrate info on some pages but it's the checkout page that counts. However, until the PSREF is updated to show the exact specs of the W540 (it does not currently) we can not be certain that the FHD panel is IPS.

ThinkPad W540 | Mobile Workstation || Lenovo Australia

Add it to your cart and it still shows the FHD panel as IPS!!

If they did alter couse and added a True FHD IPS option for the W540, it would make sense in a sane world to eventually add the option to the T540p to better match up with the GT730m GPU once they exhausted their supply of non-IPS FHD panels. Has Lenovo been know to switch gears and change panel specs in mid-stream?

Also, if you go to the US site and browse the T540p specs on the sales page it says FHD IPS but it doesn't once you go to configure it and certainly not on the checkout page, so the above info is a good sign for the W540 and hopefully the T540p

 

No.

Not on a newly released model anyway.

I'm still betting on TN...may I be wrong for everyone else's sake.

 

If I had to bet money, I would agree with you. Lenovo will probably always treat the T540p in a second class manner. The fact that they only offer the GT730m with it says a lot. So I suppose will have to look at the W540 but I can't tell from the Ausie prices what the US price would be without research. If the price gets too high then the HP ZBook will compete as they are very configurable plus the Thinkpad button touchpad no longer in play.

 

Yes I did, got a good chuckle out of it

I hate to be overly optimistic when it comes to Lenovo's marketing...

This is what it says under features for US T540p:
15.6” HD, FHD or 3K IPS Display (clearly doesn't say IPS next to FHD)

The Aussie site for the W540 says:
FHD/3K Display With IPS Technology In-Plane Switching (IPS) LCD displays with high brightness. IPS technology allows for vivid colors and nearly 180-degree viewing angles.

It clearly says "displays" as in plural. So maybe they'll differentiate the W series with a true FHD IPS as a workstation display versus the T540p with a TN FHD display. Not a bad idea if true.

Usually you can spot their errors when they are inconsistent between different pages / sections, but in this case of the W540 they are consistent in calling the FHD as IPS. That's encouraging...

 

And you're far from being alone in that respect...

Something along those lines has been done in the past by both IBM (T43 vs. R52) and Lenovo (T60 vs. R60) where models which were similar in many respects were offered with an IPS panel for the premium grade (T-series at the time) and TN of the same resolution for the "economy" platform (R series at the time)...

Now, whether it would make sense to "downgrade" a 15.6" T-platform to a worse-than-last-year's-TN panel while you're upgrading the 14" T-range to IPS/AHVA is a whole another question...but then again, what do I know...

 

I agree and I like you pointing out "displays". I didn't key in on that. It seems that Lenovo took extra care to match every page and did an elegant job of wording the display features. That particular FHD IPS panel would have a DPI of 148 and would be very manageable compared to the T540p 3K especially for someone like me. But it really doesn't make sense to only have 1 laptop that is configured correctly for production work. The T540 is more like the W540 than the T440p. Besides a 15.x FHD IPS panel will likely be as just about as good as a 3K for playing movies and games especially if it's being driven by the puny GT730m. Why does Lenovo think that T540p buyers would prefer a 3k IPS panel with a mismached GPU rather than a FHD IPS with a correctly matched GPU? It seems they believe everyone is a gamer unless you put down $3000 for their only mobile workstation choice. However gamers would not accept the GT730m in any case so what is Lenovo thinking? I suspect that in this particular case that sometime in 2014 they will either discontinue the T540p or offer a better panel choice. Maybe they really thought the T540p would be attractive to gamers?

How much in US $ do you think the base price will be for the W540?

 

Had anyone received a 3k IPS screen yet -- or have you ever used a 3k screen anywhere?

I'd really be interested in knowning what usability considerations exist in Windows 8.1. I have concerns over DPI scaling, application compatibility, and general user experience. Lots of talk, but nobody seems to have touched one here yet.

 

according to AU vs. US lenovo.shop it's easy to see that:
- FHD IPS screen to 3k IPS screen upgrade for T540p\W540 in lenovo.au costs about 132AUD, same additional cost for T540p vs. W540
- current FHD (not specified TN or IPS) screen to 3k IPS screen upgrade for T540p in lenovo.ua costs about 200USD
- lenovo RU provides T540p with FHD TN and FHD IPS screen (tn-20BEA00BRT,20BEA00FRT; ips-20BEA008RT)

conclusion:
- us price diff between FHD IPS vs. 3k IPS should be less than 132USD
- current price diff at lenovo.us - about $200
- lenovo au ships, for now, only FHD IPS matrices (same for T540p\W540)
- lenovo us ships, for now, only FHD TN matrices

 

I really don't think that's the case. Lenovo has never catered their T series to gaming. They've always gotten flak for their choice of graphics cards in their T series, always. I believe Lenovo clearly orients their T series towards business users and business users alone.

Now, as for the 3k display, I truly believe they only did this from pressure of everyone else going to hi-res displays. They don't want to be the only one NOT offering a high res (retina like) display. There's no "business" sense in offering a 3k display on a 15" windows laptop that doesn't scale well, doesn't have touch which makes Windows 8 and the Metro UI less useful and doesn't have the graphics card to push it for gaming. Makes no sense at all. It's purely a me too option.

That's just my opinion though..who knows really.

Although when the 3k display is set at FHD resolution it's a different story

I had one for about a week. Had to send it back because I ordered on the first day of availability and Lenovo subsequently dropped the price a couple of hundred dollars but wouldn't honor a price match. There only option was to return and re-order.

Regarding the 3k display...

We all know some apps scale well and some don't. There nothing Windows 8 or 8.1 can do about it, it's how the individual application is coded. As apps get updated to take higher resolution displays into account it will be less of an issue, but as it stands today it's hit and miss. If running legacy apps is a priority for you then having a display that requires scaling to use in a non-starter. That's the bottom line.

What I did with the 3k display is set the resolution from 3k down to FHD. Running it at 1920x1080 on the 15" screen worked perfectly for me as I could set the scaling to 100% and run it like a typical FHD panel. So, you end up paying for a 3k display but using it as an FHD display. The benefit obviously is that it's still and IPS Display, has 350nit brightness and 1000:1 contrast ratio. Try to find those attributes in another display in Lenovo's T series and you won't be able to.

So it comes down to what you need to run and how you want to run it. There's no denying however that the 3k display is a beautiful display, it just may not be suited for everyone, but then again, neither is a 1366x768 in a 15" either. So, pick what will work best for you.

 

I agree with all of the above. I now find it more interesting that Lenovo is seemingly offering the Ausie market a T540p with a FHD IPS panel choice. I checked it out and the configuration screen and the final check-out screen will show a FHD IPS panel. The US website does not do that. However, the PSREF still does not indicate that the FHD panel is IPS. But perhaps that may be updated in the next edition when they include the W540. See the following Link and select the T540p with FHD IPS and go to checkout:

ThinkPad T540p | High Performance Laptop| Lenovo Australia

Questions:

1. How often does Lenovo update the PSREF?
2. If they are shipping true FHD IPS panels with the T540p to to the Ausie market then is it very likely that the US market will follow ?
3. There are not any sales going on at the Ausie Site. No holiday sales?
4. Can we configure a T540p on the Ausie site and save the order reference at checkout to email it to a US sales Rep and then negotiate for US sales prices? The Ausie site has specific Type-Model numbers associated with each order that distinquishes them form US consumer orders.?
4. However, the Type-Model # used at the Ausie T540p checkout is "20BETO1WW" of which there is not any-thing close to the last 6 characters listed in the US (PSREF). I know there is a European PSREF, but is there a separate Ausie PSREF?

There does seem to be something going on here!!!

 

There are no FHD IPS displays on the T540p or the W540. Period.

Don´t waste your time hoping for something thats a mistake. Obviously, the Lenovo.au website is wrong.

 

Time will tell, I tend to believe the mistake of only offering a 3k IPS choice is turning into a potential long term problem for the T540p when there are so many reasons why a FHD IPS would be more suited to match up with the GT730m and for Office related applications. If everyone votes with their pocketbooks$$ and end up waiting for a better panel we may get our way. Based on the Ausie sites offering the W540 and the T540p with FHD IPS as noted on the checkout screen, there may be a chance that a change is coming to the US as far as the T540p is concerned. We should just wait for the updated PSREF to come out, which shouldn't be too long because the W540 is now released but not listed in the current PSREF.

Others please read and respond to my post on the previous page.Thanks

 

The australian site is wrong. Some of the Lenovo website also said that the T440 with HD+ is IPS, which also was wrong. Or when the X1 Carbon Touch came out, the website also said IPS, which was also wrong. And note that the US tech specs for the T540p also says IPS FHD: ThinkPad T540p Business Laptop | Lenovo | Lenovo (US) But it is confirmed that this is wrong. Its obvious some members of the Lenovo website team have wrong informations.

Only the 3K display is IPS. The FRU parts-list only lists TN displays for the T540p (and W540) FHD screens. Every T540p with FHD was TN until now, also the units here in Europe.

As I said before: You are wasting your time. Maybe IPS FHD would be a nice option, but its not real. Lenovo does not make such changes to a newly announced product shortly after it was released. There will be no change of the PSREF in this part.

 

Yes, you are generally correct, but there seems to be something going on here as I have previously discussed. My ideas are based on the following thoughts and facts:

1. Regardless of what is incorrect or correct on the Pre-Check-Out sales pages, it's the final Check-Out page that carries weight. Venders almost never misbrand on the final check-out page but they do on pre-checkout. What happens to many consumers is that they read the incorrect pre-checkout marketing pages but fail to scrutinize the final check-out page which is the one that counts and could cause problems for the vender is they consistantly misbrand on the final checkout page as it is actually your final legal agreement showing what you are buying. Nothing else much matters. If it doesn't clearly state IPS on the final-checkout page, then it's not IPS. The Ausie final check-out page clearly states FHD IPS for both the W540 and the T540p.

Final-checkout pages do have legal consequences and matter. So, I'm saying that Lenovo needs fix the Ausie checkout pages and if not then maybe there is a change coming for the USA T540p and to the upcoming PSREF release which will include the W540.

I can't seem to have the following questions expounded on by the other Reps, I thought you wouldn't mind commenting. Please also read my other post to IBMTHINK. Any Thoughts?

I now find it more interesting that Lenovo is seemingly offering the Ausie market a T540p with a FHD IPS panel choice. I checked and both the configuration screen and the final check-out screen will show a FHD IPS panel. The US website does not do that. However, the PSREF still does not indicate that the FHD panel is IPS. But perhaps that may be updated in the next edition when they include the W540. See the following Link and select the T540p with FHD IPS and go to checkout:

ThinkPad T540p | High Performance Laptop| Lenovo Australia

Questions:

1. How often does Lenovo update the PSREF?
2. If they are shipping true FHD IPS panels with the T540p to to the Ausie market then is it very likely that the US market will follow ?
3. There are not any sales going on at the Ausie Site. No holiday sales?
4. Can we configure a T540p on the Ausie site and save the order reference at checkout to email it to a US sales Rep and then negotiate for US sales prices? The Ausie site has specific Type-Model numbers associated with each order that distinquishes them form US consumer orders.?
4. However, the Type-Model # used at the Ausie T540p checkout is "20BETO1WW" of which there is not any-thing close to the last 6 characters listed in the US (PSREF). I know there is a European PSREF, but is there a separate Ausie PSREF?
5. Do you feel that the final-Checkout page carries more legal weight and that large legitimate Venders generally try to get that part of the transaction correct and wouldn't knowingly leave an incorrect final checkout page in place?

 

Yilee,

Your perseverance towards this issue of the FHD IPS panel, and also the 3K panel in the T540p/W540, is quite admirable.

However there are a few things I've been wanting to write now:

1) There is not going to be a FHD IPS panel in these 2 models. You're overthinking things - display panels are normally ordered in huge bulk orders, and you won't get a scenario where Australia offers an IPS panel but other countries don't...
2) There is not going to be a FHD IPS panel in these 2 models. Read above.
3) When people want to respond with the screenshots you've been asking for repeatedly, they will - and not as a consequence of you asking for them repeatedly.
4) There is no conspiracy theory about members with 'high reputation' writing posts that you seem to think are some kind of attempt to 'gloss over the problem' or whatever you wrote; this is a free forum as far as I'm aware,
5) Coming into a forum with an account less than a month old, and questioning other (established, though that is hardly the point) forum members' honesty and credibility every 3-4 posts is generally considered bad form.

At the start I was following your posts with great interest since I wanted to know how this whole 3K panel thing was going down too. I agree with everything you've said about how unusable a 3K panel would be on a 15.6 inch laptop.

But seriously, you're overthinking it and you need to tone it down with your language and rhetoric. There is not going to be a FHD 15.6 inch IPS panel.

Edit:

I also find your cross-posting your multiple questions (with added emphasis in bold so that stupids like us can see it, right?) all over this forum in multiple threads just a little overbearing and mildly insulting. Mildly.